Atheist student against prayer mural

[lilwriter85]

http://blog.au.org/2011/10/12/rhode-isl ... stitution/

 

The court battle is still ongoing.

 

Here's a link to the girl's site she shared a letter that was sent to her and her family that reads

 

 

Quote

To: Ahlquist Family

 

I think taking any reference away from God in any anywhere is absolutely insane. If it offends you, don’t look at it. I would bet you any amount that if this came to a vote you would lose by a wide margin. This sort of belief and behavior is what is wrong with America.

 

You mean to tell me you don’t believe in a higher power? Instead of getting down on your hands and knees and thanking God for all the gifts we have you bring up this petty nonsense. You should all be ashamed of yourselves and hope one day you realize the errors of your way. Without God in our lives, we have nothing!!

 

Shame on all you atheists. You are in the minority thank God.

 

Praise God through Our Lord Jesus. I pray that you may someday have faith in God. Without that, what do we have then? Sad part is God does love you too!! He gives us free will to love him or not since he loves us too much to make us. I pray you find him. Don’t be a tool or evil – think about it please for the sake of your souls.

 

Amen

 

jessicaahlquist.com/

[Kitchen Princess]

Apparently it's a banner, not a mural, right? It's not painted on the wall....it's just hanging there?

Take the damn thing down. Move it off campus somewhere that it can be viewed by people who give a rat's ass. It's that simple. Geez.

[lilwriter85]

Apparently it's a banner, not a mural, right? It's not painted on the wall....it's just hanging there?

Take the damn thing down. Move it off campus somewhere that it can be viewed by people who give a rat's ass. It's that simple. Geez.

It is a banner but everyone is calling it a mural. Even the girl called it a mural on her site.

[lilwriter85]

Huffington Post has a pic of the banner

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/1 ... 10091.html

[Rowan]

God, this makes me sick.

That letter writer? YOU and YOUR beliefs are not the absolute truth and they are not shared by the majority of the people in this world. That mural is ILLEGAL and kudos to the people who are standing up for their beliefs!

[FlorenceHamilton]

So, how would the Christians feel if the mural depicted a large crowd of people at the Haj? Swarms of Muslim people walking clockwise around the sacred stone in Mecca on a banner or mural. If it offends them, they do not have to look at it.

[Grace]

That letter is obnoxious and offensive.

But I'm not sure that the banner needs to be taken down. If it's in line with other banners that were gifts from past Senior classes then I don't know that it should be a big deal. If school prayer and Christianity aren't a big part of the school culture now (I don't know, maybe they are) I think it's fair to see it as a part of the school's history.

But, I don't have any background on the school or the culture there so maybe it is offensive. I just think about the banners that were in schools I've attended that were from years and years ago and nobody ever even noticed them and they weren't in any way a reflection of what the current culture was. Just a look into the past.

Edited because I didn't read the first article before. I didn't realize they put the banner up AFTER Abington School District v. Schempp. It should never have gone up in the first place.

[Swamptribe]

They hired a Catholic organization? Doesn't that sort of support her point?

Plus, what a way to show the love of Jesus "You should kill yourself because I don't think well of you."

Beam me up Scottie.

[Bella99]

I am fairly certain that pro-Muslim, Atheist, etc. banners would not last very long. It is a public school, the banner should come down or be located in a trophy case type situation stating where it came from. Private schools can do whatever they want and parents who want religion in their schools are free to seek them out.

[Grace]

I wish all schools could be like the international school I went to. I helped in the Pre-K my Junior and Senior years and every time there was a religious holiday that one of the students celebrated one of the kids' parents would come in and explain it to the other kids and teach them how they celebrated. That's the reason I know part of a Jewish prayer...because a mom came in and told the kids all about it during circle time. We didn't do that specifically in the upper grades but if any student or group wanted to do something the recognize a religious holiday they were encouraged to.

[Koala]

I wish all schools could be like the international school I went to. I helped in the Pre-K my Junior and Senior years and every time there was a religious holiday that one of the students celebrated one of the kids' parents would come in and explain it to the other kids and teach them how they celebrated. That's the reason I know part of a Jewish prayer...because a mom came in and told the kids all about it during circle time. We didn't do that specifically in the upper grades but if any student or group wanted to do something the recognize a religious holiday they were encouraged to.

I'll be completely honest and say that I would be very uncomfortable with my child having any part in something like that...

[lilwriter85]

I am fairly certain that pro-Muslim, Atheist, etc. banners would not last very long. It is a public school, the banner should come down or be located in a trophy case type situation stating where it came from. Private schools can do whatever they want and parents who want religion in their schools are free to seek them out.

Yup, I agree pro Muslim or atheist banners probably wouldn't last long in a public school.

[Grace]

I'll be completely honest and say that I would be very uncomfortable with my child having any part in something like that...

Really? It was really just seen as another part of the cultural exchange that goes on when you are in a school that students from almost every continent and almost as many cultures as there were students. Prejudices come from people not understanding another person. So the more people understand each other's cultures the more likely they are to be respectful of them. We were expected to learn about each other and respect and honor our differences. It was particularly important in cases where religous observances impact day to day life. Like with the Muslim kids during Ramadan. Because it was openly explained no one thought it was weird or teased the older kids who weren't eating at lunch. I think it made good ground-work for some really well-rounded adults.

Edited because I've never once before written "Knot" instead of "not"

[BravaAmica]

I'm not a christian, and I'm leaning towards being an Atheist and it doesn't offend me. I also don't care if people wish me a Merry Christmas or Happy Easter. We do celebrate those holidays, but more as a reason to get together as a family than for religious ones.

I do believe religion has absolutely no place in an American public school, unless it's a world religion class. So I can see why they are suing to have it removed- it's a slippery slope. Once you allow the banner, well, what's wrong with a prayer at graduation... or during morning announcements... ect.

[Stickers]

Honestly, having that in my class room would barely bug me, and I was one of those kids that wouldn't even stand for pledge of allegiance*. But I do agree it should be taken down, now that it's been complained about.

*mostly because we had these morning DOL (daily oral language) worksheets and they were SO HARD for me. I didn't want to stop doing my worksheet to stand to recite some lame pledge.

[Avalondaughter]

You know what's sad? This banner shouldn't even have to be religious.

Take out the words, "School Prayer" and the words "Dear Heavenly Father" and replace it with "School Motto" and have it say something like, "Every day we strive to be better students, to be kind and gracious, etc." and it would be a very nice motivational banner.

It's not as if the sentiments are bad sentiments. It's the idea that we are asking God to make us better students, rather than simply telling students to strive to be good on their own.

Why do we need God to tell us how students should be?

Edited because I really did some crap writing the first time around.

[GeoBQn]

From the Anti-Defamation League guide on religion in public schools:

General Rule: Displays of religious symbols, texts or artwork on school property are impermissible unless a display is integrated into an appropriate secular curriculum. The fact that a display is donated by a private group or paid for by private funds will not affect whether it is permissible under the Establishment Clause.

May a school permanently display religious artwork within classrooms or on school property? No. Similar to displays of the Ten Commandments, a temporary display of religious artwork integrated into a secular curriculum may be permissible. However, courts also have found that permanent displays of religious artwork have a predominantly religious purpose and violate the Establishment Clause.

Sample Scenario:

Principal Displays Religious Painting in High School Hallway

Rob Franklin, a graduating high school senior who is heading off to art school, donates a painting to his high school depicting the Last Supper of Jesus and his apostles. Impressed by the quality of the work, Principal Bard hangs the painting in a hallway of the school. A year later, Ms. Greene, the parent of a ninth-grader, sees the painting when she visits the school for parent-teacher night. She later tells Principal Bard that the display of the painting is inappropriate and asks that it be taken down.

Is the display of the painting permissible? Should Principal Bard take it down?

Principal Bard should take down the painting because its display violates the Establishment Clause. The display is not temporary and integrated into a secular curriculum. Rather, it is a permanent display representing a central event to the Christian faith, and therefore advances and endorses religion. The fact that Rob donated the painting to the school does not diminish this endorsement.

As for teaching about holidays in the classroom, I'm ok with it, but care needs to be taken not to single students out. When a teacher asks the only Muslim student in class to explain Ramadan or asks the mother of a Jewish kid to come in and talk about Chanukah, the teacher thinks he's being inclusive. However, this can have the effect of sending a message to students that this one student's religion is SO weird, that not even the teacher can explain it. The teacher should make every effort to teach the lesson himself, and give all students an opportunity to answer questions.

[emmiedahl]

Having a religious banner like that in a public place tells people who don't share the same ideology that they are not welcome there. It's not just a banner. It is a statement that this is a Christian place. No Jews, atheists, etc need apply.

I am used to my family being a minority in public schools but it makes me really happy when atheists fight the system. There is no state religion in the US, so we should all feel welcome in court houses, schools and other public places.

International schools tend to be a little different. Learning about different cultures is part of the experience. I would send my child to an international schools with the knowledge that they are going to be exposed to a huge number of different viewpoints.

So, to bring up a less obvious question: if a family is against a more secular part of the curriculum should it be taken out? I am thinking specifically about Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day and birthdays. No special days are celebrated at my daughter's preschool because JW children will be offended. It's not a huge deal to me, but it seems odd that I cannot send in cupcakes on her birthday when there are no JW children in her class. I guess it sends the same message that JWs are not welcome there, but I wonder if it falls under the same moral principle.

[Beeks]

I am fairly certain that pro-Muslim, Atheist, etc. banners would not last very long. It is a public school, the banner should come down or be located in a trophy case type situation stating where it came from. Private schools can do whatever they want and parents who want religion in their schools are free to seek them out.

I agree with this. If it were displayed as a piece of history from the school's first graduating class I don't think it would pose a legal problem.

[Kitty]

If it was a senior class gift, I'm not sure it should be taken down. There was a context to those seniors, however this context has been lost over the years.

I do think however that it assumes every student is Christian, and in that sense should never have been put up in the first place.

I think there's more to this story here though- is the school a heavily religious environment, as shown by the mural? Is the prayer on the mural often mentioned by school officials? Because to me the article just sounds like "lol, atheist gets offended by EVERYTHING, move along."

[Beeks]

Having a religious banner like that in a public place tells people who don't share the same ideology that they are not welcome there. It's not just a banner. It is a statement that this is a Christian place. No Jews, atheists, etc need apply.

I am used to my family being a minority in public schools but it makes me really happy when atheists fight the system. There is no state religion in the US, so we should all feel welcome in court houses, schools and other public places.

International schools tend to be a little different. Learning about different cultures is part of the experience. I would send my child to an international schools with the knowledge that they are going to be exposed to a huge number of different viewpoints.

So, to bring up a less obvious question: if a family is against a more secular part of the curriculum should it be taken out? I am thinking specifically about Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day and birthdays. No special days are celebrated at my daughter's preschool because JW children will be offended. It's not a huge deal to me, but it seems odd that I cannot send in cupcakes on her birthday when there are no JW children in her class. I guess it sends the same message that JWs are not welcome there, but I wonder if it falls under the same moral principle.

By the time my 6-years-younger brother went through the same public school I did, these days had been changed to "red day" and "green day" etc. They still did all the traditions surrounding the days - gave cards on "red day" hunted shamrocks and got a treat and wore green on "green day." They just called them different things. Honestly, it was pretty silly.

This was in the SF Bay Area, CA.

[alphaeta08]

That banner is pretty annoying, and it looks like something we would've had in my school. We did "harmless" stuff like prayers before dinner at prom, prayer at graduation, "moment of silence" (aka prayer) after the pledge. No one would've complained, because it would've been too much trouble. That girls has balls, though. I never would've come out as an atheist in high school; I saw how bad it was for the one or two that I knew.

[Stickers]

So, to bring up a less obvious question: if a family is against a more secular part of the curriculum should it be taken out? I am thinking specifically about Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day and birthdays. No special days are celebrated at my daughter's preschool because JW children will be offended. It's not a huge deal to me, but it seems odd that I cannot send in cupcakes on her birthday when there are no JW children in her class. I guess it sends the same message that JWs are not welcome there, but I wonder if it falls under the same moral principle.

I think it falls under then same moral principle, but I'm not sure it has the same legal backing. They don't celebrate anything with pagan roots, because the ancient context is non-christian. Does ancient context count in court? This would be a good topic for one of our lawyers to weight in on.

I'd guess the other reason they apply it to all classes is fairness. If they didn't it might cause the kids with JW classmates to resent the kids without JW classmates. It could cause some playground bullying.

[thoughtful]

I think the banner should be taken down, and I admire the young woman for her courage.

I also think that creating a smokescreen about the banner's being old, traditional, from those good old days when this wasn't an issue, etc., is especially heinous. Even if it was true, it would be obnoxious, coming from some of the pro-banner folks.

But it may not even be true:

In 1963, the U.S. Supreme Court handed down a famous decision in a school prayer case called Abington School District v. Schempp. The justices, with only one dissenter, ruled school-sponsored and coercive programs of prayer and Bible reading in public schools unconstitutional.

That same year for some reason, students at a high school in Cranston, R.I., decided to create an 8-foot-tall banner containing an official school prayer and hang it in the school auditorium.

Maybe it was an act of defiance against the court. Maybe the students and administrators weren’t even thinking about what the court said. In any case, the prayer banner has remained on the wall for nearly 50 years.

Very generous of the folks at Americans United to give them the benefit of the doubt, I think. The whole article is here:

http://blog.au.org/2011/10/12/rhode-isl ... stitution/

edited for riffle

[Grace]

By the time my 6-years-younger brother went through the same public school I did, these days had been changed to "red day" and "green day" etc. They still did all the traditions surrounding the days - gave cards on "red day" hunted shamrocks and got a treat and wore green on "green day." They just called them different things. Honestly, it was pretty silly.

This was in the SF Bay Area, CA.

My birthday is in the summer so I never got to have a school birthday party so my mom would bring in cupcakes on St. Patrick's day so I'd have a party day at school (I was all into our Irish heritage). In 3rd grade there was a JW kid in my class so she brought everything in anyway and called it "Irish Awareness Day" :D

I think red and green day seems kind of silly too. At least at my nephew's school for Halloween they call it Harvest Festival and not Orange day. haha