Bro Gary Hawkins 23: Give Us the History

[thoughtful]

Well, Gary's back to his old self:

Spoiler

A lot so called people? Did you mean "a lot of so-called Christian people," Gary?

Edited October 16, 2023 by thoughtful
riffle

[AmazonGrace]

Words expensive, no need use so many when understand leaving out

[thoughtful]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

Words expensive, no need use so many when understand leaving out

Gary Hawkins - the fundy Kevin Malone.

 

[Xan]

6 hours ago, thoughtful said:

It seems there's been a miracle:

  Hide contents

This was accompanied by pictures, mostly of various family members looking happy.

I wondered about this and was going to comment but I'm not a doctor.   I do know that people can go south pretty fast when removed from medications.  It did occur to me though that if they were on death watch, it might take a while.  She looked pretty alert and it may take a long while for her blood pressure to bottom out.  I guess the hospital had to call the family in just in case things went bad.

She's been in and out of the hospital a lot in the past two years.  I suppose she's still on dialysis and she has a lot of trouble with the remaining kidney.  I'm not sure how long this miracle might last.

[thoughtful]

Gary poignantly demonstrates how his beliefs screw with a person's mind at life's most vulnerable moments.

I think he really wants to say that he hopes his Mom will continue to live for a long time - full stop. But he isn't permitted that statement, and I bet he feels that he's not even allowed to think it.

He has to pray that he and his family (I think that "will" in the second sentence is supposed to be "we'll") will accept whatever God wants. He actually says it three times - that, plus the "LORD willing" at the beginning, and the entire last sentence.

If sincere, it's nice to see him show some actual affection for his mother. For once, I actually feel for him.

Comments are all people sending prayers, plus this cheery addition:

Spoiler

ETA - his sister posted, as well. She credits prayer:

Quote

They are bringing Momma home in the morning at 11 am please be Praying she makes it home. She is a true fighter and has amazed the doctors and nurses. Thank you all so much for your Prayers you will never know how much it means to our family! Anyone who does not believe in God or the power of Prayer should have watched our family as we stood around my Momma and sang her favorite songs! We know the Lord answers Prayer and has been so good to our faimily!

Edited October 17, 2023 by thoughtful

[FiveAcres]

Is Gary's mother going home to home hospice, or is this a forbidden concept for Gary and his family?

[thoughtful]

28 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Is Gary's mother going home to home hospice, or is this a forbidden concept for Gary and his family?

Good question. As far as I can see, nobody from the family has said, either way.

I can't think of anything specific about their beliefs that would forbid it, but who knows?

[AmazonGrace]

I hope all the best for the mother and the family.

 As I understand, the theory is that God willing, people live, and God willing, people die and this applies to everybody. So whether someone survives an illness or just lives a happy healthy life without ever being sick for a day, in both cases it means that God didn't want them to die yet. So I am not sure where the miracle part comes in. Either way, God made a decision. So why is it a miracle if he wanted person A to live? Whereas if he wanted person B to live, nobody thinks it's in any way remarkable.

 

[Xan]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

So why is it a miracle if he wanted person A to live? Whereas if he wanted person B to live, nobody thinks it's in any way remarkable.

Logic doesn't enter into it.  The interesting thing to me is that people think they can beg for a miracle.  Realistically, it ought to be ought out of their hands.  Nevertheless, there's a strong contingent who believe that you can pray hard enough and get a special dispensation for your loved one.

[FiveAcres]

13 hours ago, Xan said:

Logic doesn't enter into it.  The interesting thing to me is that people think they can beg for a miracle.  Realistically, it ought to be ought out of their hands.  Nevertheless, there's a strong contingent who believe that you can pray hard enough and get a special dispensation for your loved one.

At one point during the height of people dying from COVID, it was wild on the Herman Cain Award subreddit. There would be these long Facebook screeds of people asking for prayer warriors to pray for their hospitalized loved ones. The prayer requestor not only asked for the prayer warriors to pray for the patient in a general sense, but would make specific requests such as telling god to raise the patient's oxygen levels (while on ventilation and in a medically induced coma) over 90%. It was like god wouldn't understand what he had to do to make the patient better without precise details. Name it and claim it! God will manifest what we tell him to do. Then, when the care team finally convinced the family that there was nothing else that could be done, the patient would be taken off life support, and die. Without missing a beat, the prayer requestor would say their loved one was with the angels now. God is good!

(ETA: To qualify for the Herman Cain Award, there had to be evidence that the person was a COVID denialist or anti-vaxxer, and then actually die of the disease. Though a lot of times, the survivors would insist that the person actually died of pneumonia, despite the pneumonia having been caused by COVID.)

Edited October 18, 2023 by FiveAcres

[thoughtful]

Gary is crediting God again, and, in his Garyesque way, manages to make it about being pissed off at people who don't believe everything he does:

I hope Sheila is comfortable and has lots more time with her family.

16 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

 As I understand, the theory is that God willing, people live, and God willing, people die and this applies to everybody. So whether someone survives an illness or just lives a happy healthy life without ever being sick for a day, in both cases it means that God didn't want them to die yet. So I am not sure where the miracle part comes in. Either way, God made a decision. So why is it a miracle if he wanted person A to live? Whereas if he wanted person B to live, nobody thinks it's in any way remarkable.

15 hours ago, Xan said:

Logic doesn't enter into it.  The interesting thing to me is that people think they can beg for a miracle.  Realistically, it ought to be ought out of their hands.  Nevertheless, there's a strong contingent who believe that you can pray hard enough and get a special dispensation for your loved one.

2 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

The prayer requestor not only asked for the prayer warriors to pray for the patient in a general sense, but would make specific requests such as telling god to raise the patient's oxygen levels (while on ventilation and in a medically induced coma) over 90%. It was like god wouldn't understand what he had to do to make the patient better without precise details. Name it and claim it! God will manifest what we tell him to do.

They never seem to see the contradiction - preaching that God is in control, knew everything that would happen since the beginning of time, and does what he pleases, but can be moved to change by their prayers, is very bizarre, to me.

There are theists who don't believe in an omniscient god, so it makes sense for them to pray. But these folks go on and on about God having an unchangeable plan.

Then they pray for change.

Then, some of them they say that whatever happened was God's plan all along, and some of them boast that prayer works and God listened to them. And some of them say both, not even realizing how those things are opposites.

Make up your darned minds, people.

[Alisamer]

2 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

At one point during the height of people dying from COVID, it was wild on the Herman Cain Award subreddit. There would be these long Facebook screeds of people asking for prayer warriors to pray for their hospitalized loved ones. The prayer requestor not only asked for the prayer warriors to pray for the patient in a general sense, but would make specific requests such as telling god to raise the patient's oxygen levels (while on ventilation and in a medically induced coma) over 90%. It was like god wouldn't understand what he had to do to make the patient better without precise details. Name it and claim it! God will manifest what we tell him to do. Then, when the care team finally convinced the family that there was nothing else that could be done, the patient would be taken off life support, and die. Without missing a beat, the prayer requestor would say their loved one was with the angels now. God is good!

It is maddening, isn't it? They seem to have no critical thinking or understanding of what they are even saying. God knew everything about you before you were even conceived! But if we pray and beg and tell him what we want hard enough, he might heal you despite his plan! 

They're like, if you light a candle and meditate on what you want to manifest that, it's witchcraft. If you open your bible and meditate what you want to manifest it, as long as you direct it toward God, that's super Christian. Candles may depend on personal preference or variety of christianity. 

They do generally make it so whatever happens it proves they were right, and Christian, and blessed by God. Person survives? God answered their prayers. Hallelujah. Person dies? God called them home to live in heaven forever. Hallelujah.  Either way, God did the thing. If they live in suffering, God is good because they could be dead. They die quickly, God is good because they are now in heaven where there is no suffering. And if a liberal fully vaccinated atheist survives Covid with such minor symptoms he doesn't even have to visit the hospital... it's God showing his mercy to a sinner, hoping the atheist will repent and come to him in praise. Even though God knew before that person was concieved that he'd be an atheist, since God is omniscient. 

It's like they believe life is a book written by God, set in stone. But if they pray hard enough maybe God will suddenly make it turn into a choose-your-own-adventure book halfway through.

He knows the plans he has for you. But if you beg hard enough he might maybe change things. Though he knew before that he'd change things, since he knows all his plans. Which means that must have been part of the plan all along. But you still gotta pray and beg, for some reason. It's like a dog chasing it's tail.

42 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

Gary is crediting God again, and, in his Garyesque way, manages to make it about being pissed off at people who don't believe everything he does

I feel like part of that from people like Gary might be a niggling tiny bit of doubt. We know he got "saved" multiple times before it finally "took" according to him, so I wouldn't be surprised if deep down he might have a passing thought flit through wondering if he's really on the right path. So he has to reassure himself by proclaiming over and over that he is saved and Godly and correct, and therefore anyone who might have the slightest difference in opinion must therefore be wrong.

[thoughtful]

More from Gary:

[Ozlsn]

Glad she's doing OK, feel for Becky who's obviously struggling.

[keepercjr]

On 10/18/2023 at 11:56 AM, thoughtful said:

More from Gary:

I can't believe they are only heading home now.  Gary, for as much as he says he loves his mom, didn't even bother to go home till after she was expected to be dead.  His kids are all there.  He could have gone home without Becky for a few days.  I honestly don't think he cares about anyone but himself.  I wonder what his family thinks about him. 

[thoughtful]

13 hours ago, keepercjr said:

I can't believe they are only heading home now.  Gary, for as much as he says he loves his mom, didn't even bother to go home till after she was expected to be dead.  His kids are all there.  He could have gone home without Becky for a few days.  I honestly don't think he cares about anyone but himself.  I wonder what his family thinks about him. 

I may be misunderstanding you, so just tell me if I am - it sounds to me like you are referring to North Carolina as "home."

"Home," in Gary's post, is referring to Hohenwald, Tennessee - where he and Becky live now. He's been in North Carolina with his family while most or all of this was going on (we don't know exactly when he went).

I agree with you that Becky's staying in TN would have been better for her health, but I can't imagine she would have chosen that. Besides Gary being so dependent on her, I think she is also fond of Sheila.

And I agree that it may have been the possibility that his mother would die that got him to get off of his ass and go to NC, and I have also wondered what the rest of the family think about his selfish ways.

I'd be curious to know who disapproved of him in his younger years, had hope when he got "saved" and remarried, then had to conclude that he may be saved, but he's still a selfish shit-for-brains.

Edited October 20, 2023 by thoughtful
clarity

[thoughtful]

Gary's latest:

According to his sister, Sheila is "holding steady" and in some pain today.

[thoughtful]

Gary, you're late this year - it's already October 20!

[Alisamer]

24 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

Gary, you're late this year - it's already October 20!

I really love when fundies fall back on the golden oldies like being anti-Halloween and anti-rock music. So many of them these days seem to gloss over these topics rather than get all wigged out about it, and them being upset is so much funnier than them just quietly sitting home with the porch light off being judgy in private.

Also, Gary, I'd like to introduce you to other holidays that have been adapted from or include traditions derived from pagan holidays... Christmas, Easter...

[keepercjr]

7 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I may be misunderstanding you, so just tell me if I am - it sounds to me like you are referring to North Carolina as "home."

"Home," in Gary's post, is referring to Hohenwald, Tennessee - where he and Becky live now. He's been in North Carolina with his family while most or all of this was going on (we don't know exactly when he went).

I agree with you that Becky's staying in TN would have been better for her health, but I can't imagine she would have chosen that. Besides Gary being so dependent on her, I think she is also fond of Sheila.

And I agree that it may have been the possibility that his mother would die that got him to get off of his ass and go to NC, and I have also wondered what the rest of the family think about his selfish ways.

I'd be curious to know who disapproved of him in his younger years, had hope when he got "saved" and remarried, then had to conclude that he may be saved, but he's still a selfish shit-for-brains.

Yes sorry I wasn't clear - I know that they live in Tn, I was referring to "home" as in where he is from.  Like going back home for the holidays type of meaning.  Sheila has been sick and not doing well for a little bit and Gary only decided to head to SC after they knew she would last hours or a day.  If that had come true he would have left after she died.  I know that Becky would want to go back to see Sheila but it would be more important for Gary to be there for her last days/hours than wait a several days and go back with Becky.  But alas that is only my opinion.  I wonder where they stay when he is there? 

I think that his sisters, especially the one who has the son with long hair and married a not modest girl (can't remember her name, sorry) know that he is a POS.  He doesn't give anything to the family.  Doesn't attend family events, doesn't have a relationship with his nieces or nephews, nothing.  Gary is all about Gary. 

[thoughtful]

1 hour ago, keepercjr said:

Yes sorry I wasn't clear - I know that they live in Tn, I was referring to "home" as in where he is from.  Like going back home for the holidays type of meaning.  Sheila has been sick and not doing well for a little bit and Gary only decided to head to SC after they knew she would last hours or a day. 

OK, so I was understanding you correctly, maybe just misunderstanding the big picture of what you were saying. It seemed to me you were reacting to this post:

Spoiler

 

as meaning they were just headed to NC this past Wednesday, since you wrote:

21 hours ago, keepercjr said:

I can't believe they are only heading home now. 

But I think I get you now - you're disgusted that Gary only finally went to NC when relatives told him his mother is probably dying - again, correct me if I'm wrong.

I definitely agree with you that Gary hasn't shown the kind of care that decent people do when a parent is ailing, whenever his mother has one of the many health crises she's had over the years.

As I've said before, I wonder if most of the family is fine with that, since he seems like the kind of person who would be more of a pain in the ass than a help or comfort to anyone.

I wonder if he started ordering Jacob around, asking him to go get bottles of water, as soon as he saw him, or teasing him about perfectly normal teen boy things. Jacob's hair is a bit longer in the front now - that might have gotten him some flak.

It occurred to me that I could get a rough estimate of when they went. The last time they were in church in TN was on 10/8 - the next service was 10/11. They've missed a few services for other reasons, so we can't be sure. But, if heading for NC is the reason they missed church, they might have left as early as 10/9.

I checked his birthday posts, and didn't see any info about where they were. I did, however, find this conversation under the post about his TrumpJesus hat:

Spoiler

This is from his 10/14 post, so they were there by then:

Spoiler

Another thing occurred to me about the 10/18 post - since he's such a selfish shit, I was astounded by Gary's posting all of those blood pressure numbers. I have a hard time thinking that he really kept track - maybe he cut and pasted the numbers from a text someone else sent him, or had Becky write some of that post. I mean, dialysis is spelled correctly, fer cryin' out loud.

[thoughtful]

Another heartbreaking example of someone torn between just being allowed to express what he wants, and having to say (and think?) that he is OK with God's will:

Spoiler

But, whether Mrs. Townsend gets well or not, the End Times are near (but Gary's not claiming to know exactly when, of course):

Spoiler

 

[keepercjr]

23 hours ago, thoughtful said:

OK, so I was understanding you correctly, maybe just misunderstanding the big picture of what you were saying. It seemed to me you were reacting to this post:

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as meaning they were just headed to NC this past Wednesday, since you wrote:

But I think I get you now - you're disgusted that Gary only finally went to NC when relatives told him his mother is probably dying - again, correct me if I'm wrong.

I definitely agree with you that Gary hasn't shown the kind of care that decent people do when a parent is ailing, whenever his mother has one of the many health crises she's had over the years.

As I've said before, I wonder if most of the family is fine with that, since he seems like the kind of person who would be more of a pain in the ass than a help or comfort to anyone.

I wonder if he started ordering Jacob around, asking him to go get bottles of water, as soon as he saw him, or teasing him about perfectly normal teen boy things. Jacob's hair is a bit longer in the front now - that might have gotten him some flak.

It occurred to me that I could get a rough estimate of when they went. The last time they were in church in TN was on 10/8 - the next service was 10/11. They've missed a few services for other reasons, so we can't be sure. But, if heading for NC is the reason they missed church, they might have left as early as 10/9.

I checked his birthday posts, and didn't see any info about where they were. I did, however, find this conversation under the post about his TrumpJesus hat:

  Hide contents

This is from his 10/14 post, so they were there by then:

  Hide contents

Another thing occurred to me about the 10/18 post - since he's such a selfish shit, I was astounded by Gary's posting all of those blood pressure numbers. I have a hard time thinking that he really kept track - maybe he cut and pasted the numbers from a text someone else sent him, or had Becky write some of that post. I mean, dialysis is spelled correctly, fer cryin' out loud.

Oooh I was totally misinterpreting his post!  I thought he was headed to see his mom this past thursday, not that he was headed back to Tn.  My bad!  I am glad he was there.  I saw the pictures but totally didn't recognize him or it didn't connect in my brain. 

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, keepercjr said:

Oooh I was totally misinterpreting his post!  I thought he was headed to see his mom this past thursday, not that he was headed back to Tn.  My bad!  I am glad he was there.  I saw the pictures but totally didn't recognize him or it didn't connect in my brain. 

Ah - that's what I originally thought you meant.

I also didn't recognize him at first - I thought he was taking the pictures for the 10/14 post. But after I zoomed in on a recent picture from church in which he looked beardless (I posted it on the previous page), I'm pretty sure that's him in that awful hat. It's definitely Becky in the corner.

He posted this a few hours ago:

I wonder if Danny, Gary or Caleb led family church services while they were sitting with Sheila.

Edited October 22, 2023 by thoughtful
riffle

[thoughtful]

Becky and Gary were back in their spot at the end of the row in church this morning. Becky even stood up during the greeting break in the service:

Spoiler

Several people come to talk to them, and Gary is grinning from ear to ear the whole time.

At some point, I'll go back and find out if anyone asked for prayers for them or for Sheila last Wednesday, or if anything was said during the service this morning.