Harry & Meghan 12: Prodigal Prince, Immature, Paranoid, Whiner, or Fully Justified?

[treehugger]

I really did like them at the beginning.  I still think Meghan is gorgeous, but the BRF was a terrible fit for her, and I hate how things have deteriorated.  No one really comes out looking good.  I didn't start out disliking them.  I mean, my daughters and I got up early and dressed to the nines to watch their wedding, and I always had a soft spot for Harry (his PR team was excellent in those days).  And my husband watches Suits when he does paperwork, so I knew who Meghan was.  I had a lot of hopes for them, but time has completely disillusioned me.  

[viii]

31 minutes ago, treehugger said:

No one really comes out looking good.  

Yes. Over the last 4-5 years, my thoughts on everyone has tanked. I think both sides are messy. 

[hoipolloi]

Partway through Episode 2 now -- used watching it to do some filing, etc. -- and I have to say that this show is such a strange mix of absolutely cringeworthy, "meet cute" crap and very important issues. Racism in the US & the UK, how media + social media reify engrained racism and then weaponize it, and of course the role of the BRF are all very important things to discuss. It is just so bizarre to see the show skip blithely from the happy couple things to one of these heavy topics, and then back. 

Re: changing stories. Yes, H & M do quite a bit of that.

Re: their relationship. It seems genuine and happy. I thought that this Twitter thread made some good points about the dynamics of their relationship.

 

[viii]

That is an excellent thread. Harry has been wanting to leave the BRF for yeeeeeears. Before Meghan EVER came on the scene. She was just the first person to be like “let’s go”. 

[Coconut Flan]

Also they didn't film it in their own home, but it's said they never acknowledged that.

[hoipolloi]

2 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Also they didn't film it in their own home

I wondered about that. 

Not surprising, perhaps, for more than one reason -- security or available space insufficient for filming.

 

 

[Coconut Flan]

They leased a house frequently used for filming.  It's pretty much twice the size of their house with immaculate landscaping.  

[Loveday]

4 hours ago, noseybutt said:

I thought purple was the liturgy color for Anglican funerals. 

Now that I don't know. I only know about purple as a mourning color in a very general sense, and that mostly in older American custom, not British or European. I do know that purple is a liturgy color in the Catholic church, but I can't recall just when it's used. It's been awhile since I've been to mass on a regular enough basis to know any more! LOL. But maybe someone from the Anglican tradition will let us know if you're correct (and I suspect you are!).

[viii]

16 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

They leased a house frequently used for filming.  It's pretty much twice the size of their house with immaculate landscaping.  

That’s pretty common in reality world. I don’t think it’s overly shocking but I’m sure some will chalk it up to them lying again. 

[Coconut Flan]

Common, but is usually known or in the small print of the show.

[Loveday]

2 hours ago, JDuggs said:

I have never done a deep dive into Harry and Meghan. For some unknown reason, I just haven’t been interested. Without any preconceived notions, except that I know people either love or hate Meghan, I watched the first episode on Netflix. I found both of them to be utterly charming and engaging. So I came here to see what people have to say about them because I’ve never read this thread about them. I read all the way through just this thread(12) and I was shocked about the universal dislike for them. I just finished the next two episodes and I found them interesting and informative. I think I need to read more examples about what a narcissistic liar Meghan is and what a dull oaf Harry is before I decide. The biggest lie in this thread was that Harry and Meghan had conflicting ideas about when Lilibet started walking and that hasn’t given me enough reason to vilify them yet.

I don't dislike them at all, actually. I was really excited for Meghan to be part of the BRF, and watched their wedding with great interest (I kept putting myself in Meghan's mom's shoes as she sat there in the chapel at Windsor, wondering how it would feel if MY daughter were marrying into that family! 😮 I know I would have had a really hard time sitting there as calmly and serenely as she did, that's for sure!). I still hope their marriage lasts (I feel like it will, they do seem genuinely in love with each other), and that they make peace with how things have turned out between them and the BRF. I just think all this 'oh we want our privacy but look! here's a big Netflix documentary all about us!' stuff is just a bit over the top, and both H&M come across as pretty narcissistic, whether they really are or not (I think Meghan is, Harry less so, but that's just my uneducated opinion). But hopefully they've gotten it out of their systems now and they can move on. They really do need to, because continually harping on the same subjects* is eventually going to become tiresome, as it already has for quite a few of us.

 

*Not the racism subject; if there's racism within the BRF, and I'm sure there is, it needs to be dragged out into the harsh light of day until it's gone, no matter who the racists are and no matter who's dragging them out. 

[Smash!]

I was excited as well when Harry and Meghan got engaged. She as an American and POC would bring some fresh air into the BRF.

The turning point for me was when they wanted to have the cake and eating it too. Meghan on maternity leave (good for her!) but at the same time posing with Beyoncé I think on the red carpet at a premiere. She could‘ve easily just go to that film and chatted with Beyoncé inside. Another one was their exclamation of wanting privacy, which again is a legitimate claim. But then there were pictures in People of her sitting almost alone at a Wimbledon match and rumors her staff wanted to prevent the few people in the same section from taking pictures of the game.

This basically has continued, wanting to have it all and I can‘t take them seriously anymore.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Smash!

[Coconut Flan]

I was one of the ones excited for them at first, too.  Then as people here have said, they did so many not admirable things and then the lies and misrepresentations began coming out.  Now I'm just done.  

[noseybutt]

I paid very little attention until the engagement was announced and then was like, What the heck. The fact that a biracial person would be willing to work as a representative for the BRF seemed odd to me. Because history. 

How it unfolded was not at all like I expected.

Edited December 12, 2022 by noseybutt

[QuiverFullofBooks]

“Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me” had a good joke about them yesterday. “Maybe their relationship is called H&M because it looks good, but it’s going to fall apart in no time.” 

[louisa05]

3 hours ago, Loveday said:

Now that I don't know. I only know about purple as a mourning color in a very general sense, and that mostly in older American custom, not British or European. I do know that purple is a liturgy color in the Catholic church, but I can't recall just when it's used. It's been awhile since I've been to mass on a regular enough basis to know any more! LOL. But maybe someone from the Anglican tradition will let us know if you're correct (and I suspect you are!).

Purple is used for lent and advent in the Catholic church. Google tells me it is also used for lent in the Anglican/Episcopal church but they use blue for advent. White is used for Christmas, Easter, Feast days, weddings and funerals in both denominations with Anglicans also using it for baptisms . Ordinary time is green and Pentecost is red for both. Anglicans use red for holy week as well and use black for Good Friday. Catholics post Vatican 2 never use black. Catholics also use rose twice a year for Gaudete Sunday (the third week) during advent (that was today) and once during lent on Laetare Sunday (the fourth week). 

[prayawaythefundie]

I bet you anything that Meghan was at least offered training upon becoming a royal and I don’t even think she would have refused it right away. I could imagine that she started the training and something went wrong at the very beginning. Maybe it was classist or even racist behaviour from a staff member. I heard that royal staff can not only be stiff but horribly snobbish. I don‘t even think Meghan would have quit by her decision alone but maybe Harry saw red and was like „you don‘t need this“. Maybe he thought he could prepare her himself. I‘m obviously just speculating.

[MamaJunebug]

On 12/10/2022 at 11:30 AM, Coconut Flan said:

They declined the Dumbarton title because it had Dumb in it.

That will never cease to make me giggle.  
 

Hugs. Years ago, I read Carole Radziwill’s retelling of her life with her husband and his cousins - JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette Kennedy, may the 3 of them all RIP.  
 

One thing that stood out to me was the women’s first meeting. Carole was doing the dishes at Radziwill’s beach house (they weren’t engaged at that point, IIRC) when Junior & Carolyn arrived. Carolyn went straight to Carole, hugged her (one-armed side hug, I guess?) and greeted her using a tender term like “dear” or “darling.”  
 

Struck me as so odd, but then I’m not a hugger.  To be charitable to the late Carolyn, I assume she knew Radziwill was serious about Carole and so she wanted Carole to feel at-ease around American royalty, and accepted by them.  But now: Meghan’s in the Carole role in her introduction to Catherine and her behavior makes LESS than no sense to me. 

But then: I’m not a hugger. Did I mention?  

[just_ordinary]

On 12/11/2022 at 3:08 AM, Coconut Flan said:

Kate wore a lot of the same brand my daughter did.  The clothes were less than $100 per dress or pants.

Seraphine. But around 5 pieces is not exactly a lot. Also the sweet dotted number from ASOS or Topshop. But there were also JPackham, McQueen, Mulberry, Dolce&Gabbana, Erdem, Cathrine Walker, MiuMiu… hardly affordable- and I don’t talk gowns here. She also only repeated a handful of those pieces. I absolutely get not repeating certain looks when they kind of gotten “iconic” (the spotted mini dress&blazer? when she was pregnant with George was copied by many - if not the same piece then the style. But she must have about 50 maternity coats if not more. That’s absolute overkill - because I doubt we will see any of them again. She could get them altered but hasn’t, so I doubt she ever will.

18 hours ago, Loveday said:

Purple is very much a mourning color. In times past, certain shades of purple indicated 'half mourning,' a period of time after the first months or year after the death occurred. Widows and other close family members would wear either deep shades of purple or lighter lavender to indicate they were still in mourning but were slowly starting to resume their social obligations. In some countries today purple is more of a mourning color than black.

If purple ever was an acceptable colour of half morning in the UK I don’t know. We doubt we will see royals in different colours than black, gray or dark navy for this. Maybe dark green or purple for serious and slightly somber events. 
point is - maybe the Queen has first choice of colour but we have seen the other women in the same colour at events without a mourning or similar dress code before. I actually think they should make more of an effort to create images that look more harmonic when they are all in the picture. 

17 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

So the palace is responding quickly and the way they always do- through sources.

 

TL/dr

Meghan apparently chose herself not to invite the niece because she did not want the girl to suffer the publicity. I do not understand why she would blame it on the palace. In fact, the palace’s version shines a very positive light on Meghan. 
 

Some of Harry’s comments about choosing a wife read to William like a slam on his own marriage.

Meghan was given a dossier with a full guide to royal life and there was “intense” prep for everything. Harry’s private secretary was apparently the one in charge of her prep. 
 

And apparently Harkles are ready to put this behind them and “move on”… until the book next month.

 

Well, isn’t that what everyone else does though? We all have a “list” to some extent. Even H&M talked about it. He also admitted that he looked for a women ready to take it all on? Just because it didn’t work for them doesn’t mean that he didn’t expect it to do when he popped the question. And what if his brother decided that he wanted someone that he wanted someone that would fit in? That’s between him and his wife. They might be in love or companions with a shared goal? No need to shame to adults for making a choice like that. Their relationship is neither better nor worse for this? H&M seem to believe it had to be a hot burning drama to be worthy. How about let others life as they chose to? Life what you preach and all that for once (it hadn’t worked with the private jets).

[klein_roeschen]

13 hours ago, JDuggs said:

I have never done a deep dive into Harry and Meghan. For some unknown reason, I just haven’t been interested. Without any preconceived notions, except that I know people either love or hate Meghan, I watched the first episode on Netflix. I found both of them to be utterly charming and engaging. So I came here to see what people have to say about them because I’ve never read this thread about them. I read all the way through just this thread(12) and I was shocked about the universal dislike for them. I just finished the next two episodes and I found them interesting and informative. I think I need to read more examples about what a narcissistic liar Meghan is and what a dull oaf Harry is before I decide. The biggest lie in this thread was that Harry and Meghan had conflicting ideas about when Lilibet started walking and that hasn’t given me enough reason to vilify them yet.

When they got engaged and married I thought at first good for the Royal family, they need new blood and fresh air to finally come into the 21st century. Even when they left the royal life with the wish to have a more private life out of the spotlight I thought great, nobody needs to stay in a job they are literally born into. Again 21st century. But then came the whining about being cut off from Charles financially and here my opinion changed. Harry had inherited millions, they just bought a huge mansion in California and he whined about paying for his own security and being cut of financially by daddy. Well, welcome to the world of us mere mortals Harry, where we have to secure our own income to survive. Than came big statements like they want to focus on charity and they started their charity Archwell, which produced nothing to this day. And since they quiet being working royals for a more private life, they constantly whine to the press how terrible their life as part of the royal family and as working royals was. The big Oprah interview, now the Netflix doku and the upcoming book are only about how sad their lifes where. For me they come of as very entitled but without any idea what to do with their lifes now that they left the royal life so they sell that out instead of using it to find their own causes and purposes. And that gets old and with every retelling of that it gets older. I won't label Megan a liar and narcisist, because I don't know much about her and I don't care about her past.

4 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

I bet you anything that Meghan was at least offered training upon becoming a royal and I don’t even think she would have refused it right away. I could imagine that she started the training and something went wrong at the very beginning. Maybe it was classist or even racist behaviour from a staff member. I heard that royal staff can not only be stiff but horribly snobbish. I don‘t even think Meghan would have quit by her decision alone but maybe Harry saw red and was like „you don‘t need this“. Maybe he thought he could prepare her himself. I‘m obviously just speculating.

First, I don't want to downplay racism, but a lot what Megan could and maybe have faced inside the royal family is less racist and more classist. The UK is a lot more classist and hierachial society than the US, but inside an instituion like the royal family even much more. A lot of that comes of as racism instead of classism because Megan is of mixed heritage, but she would have faced a lot of the same snobbism if she was lilly white. And even if Harry thought he could prepare her himself for the job and life as a british royal, Megan as a grown adult woman in her 30s should have asked questions about her future life that would be a lot different to her life before marrying Harry. But maybe they did decide that their royal life past the wedding will be short and they want to leave as soon as possible and therefore the preparation was not really needed.

Edited December 12, 2022 by klein_roeschen

[viii]

https://people.com/royals/meghan-markle-and-prince-harry-palace-happy-lie-protect-prince-william-netflix-trailer-docuseries/

Well, this is probably the final nail in the coffin for William and Harry's relationship. William is notorious for holding grudges, I don't see him forgiving this. 

However, it's certainly an interesting point, and one I've suspected for a while. I wonder if the actual documentary will go into further details - talk about Rose!!! 

[TN-peach]

One of the things that stands out to me the most is that Harry be the ultimately the one the blame for most of Meghan's complaints --- she didn't know she had to curtsy, she didn't know the words to the national anthem, she didn't know the royal protocol, she didn't know how to get help when she felt alone, she didn't know this, she didn't know that.  Even if you disbelieve the RF's statement that they attempted to help her - -ultimately why didn't Harry help her more.  IMO, IF their marriage ends Meghan will blame it all on Harry and say "see, it was his fault.  I even told you in the beginning he didn't help. He was useless."  She has already set him up to the be the fall guy.

36 minutes ago, viii said:

https://people.com/royals/meghan-markle-and-prince-harry-palace-happy-lie-protect-prince-william-netflix-trailer-docuseries/

Well, this is probably the final nail in the coffin for William and Harry's relationship. William is notorious for holding grudges, I don't see him forgiving this. 

However, it's certainly an interesting point, and one I've suspected for a while. I wonder if the actual documentary will go into further details - talk about Rose!!! 

It will be interesting to see if Harry expounds on this statement... what lie or does he leave it vague.  "oh yeah, they lie for him bu won't for me."  If the statement is explained in any way, you are right William will not forgive Harry especially if it is about his marriage or Catherine. 

[klein_roeschen]

1 hour ago, viii said:

https://people.com/royals/meghan-markle-and-prince-harry-palace-happy-lie-protect-prince-william-netflix-trailer-docuseries/

Well, this is probably the final nail in the coffin for William and Harry's relationship. William is notorious for holding grudges, I don't see him forgiving this. 

However, it's certainly an interesting point, and one I've suspected for a while. I wonder if the actual documentary will go into further details - talk about Rose!!! 

Reading the article I get more and more cynic with these two. What do they think they will gain with that? They burn their last ties to the royal family forever for what, a paycheck and some time in the spotlight? And please for the love of Rufus stop complaining losing tax funded perks after quitting! You got police protection because of being working royals not because you where family members! You want protection, pay for it yourself and don't deman the tax payer fund it for you! It is especially unnerving hearing it from Megan, who wasn't born into that life and worked for a paycheck before she married Harry. She should know better than such statements.
'

[louisa05]

17 minutes ago, klein_roeschen said:

Reading the article I get more and more cynic with these two. What do they think they will gain with that? They burn their last ties to the royal family forever for what, a paycheck and some time in the spotlight? And please for the love of Rufus stop complaining losing tax funded perks after quitting! You got police protection because of being working royals not because you where family members! You want protection, pay for it yourself and don't deman the tax payer fund it for you! It is especially unnerving hearing it from Megan, who wasn't born into that life and worked for a paycheck before she married Harry. She should know better than such statements.
'

It blows my mind when people defend their crying over losing taxpayer funded security or money from Charles. I have literally asked people if they’ve left a job and been able to keep the paid insurance and have the employer keep paying into retirement for them or been allowed to keep any other perks. In the real world, when you quit your job, they stop paying you or providing any benefits. Husband’s previous job offered half price zoo memberships. When he left, we had to pay full price to renew ours. If I went around complaining that the company should still be paying for half, people would think I was crazy. 

 

1 hour ago, viii said:

https://people.com/royals/meghan-markle-and-prince-harry-palace-happy-lie-protect-prince-william-netflix-trailer-docuseries/

Well, this is probably the final nail in the coffin for William and Harry's relationship. William is notorious for holding grudges, I don't see him forgiving this. 

However, it's certainly an interesting point, and one I've suspected for a while. I wonder if the actual documentary will go into further details - talk about Rose!!! 

The person who started the Rose rumors admitted that he was messing around on Twitter while drunk and made it up. The reason the British media never picked it up is because there was nothing there. If you believe they would not report an affair by a member of the royal family if they had reliable information, you’re either too young to remember the collapses of the Wales and York marriages in the 90s or are engaging in selective memory to serve a bias. 

[Coconut Flan]

I'm a bit astounded.  I'm not sure if i's paranoia, Meghan not understanding the system, if she's pulling a Robyn Brown on Harry because she didn't like royal life since it wasn't the princessy experience she expected, or is the BRF absolutely 100% bonkers, or something else or pick an item from each column.  No matter how they got there, they do seem intent on burning all bridges.  I think we have an explanation for their distancing dance and Meghan's looks of trepidation at the queen's funeral.  Those chickens are roosting quite nicely.  While it may have been fun to throw the stones at the time, they may have the rest of their lifetimes to enjoy the regret.  

The whole security thing has always left me thinking they were entitled idiots.  They wanted things other people didn't get like security just for Archie.  They wanted him to be made a prince saying it would get him security when it wouldn't.  They wanted to act like Harry was on 50 most wanted lists of terrorists.  ::smh::  I'm guessing we get more lies and distortions.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Coconut Flan