Harry & Meghan 10: Even Less Relevant to the BRF

[EmCatlyn]

12 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

You gotta know there were many many young women trying/ hoping to gain his attention. There were other aristocrats or  socialites in his circle just as pretty or more so, just as rich and connected but she had something that set her apart in his eyes and kept them together for years.  I think She had the qualities to be wife and future Queen he needed and he realized this. 

What I don’t understand is why people are still comparing Kate and Meghan as though there is a competition or contest.  They are two different individuals who married two different brothers who occupy different places in the public imagination. Comparisons of how they are treated/have been treated by the press or the BRF or the public in general make even less sense than other comparisons.

Even setting aside the obvious differences between them, they are at different stages in their marriage and their relationship with the public.  Kate had to put up with a lot of bad press and harassment for years while dating William and in the early years of their marriage.  Meghan’s relationship with Harry progressed more quickly, and her “early years of marriage” are still happening.

Discussions about Meghan often seem to devolve into discussions about whether she has been treated fairly. What she does or doesn’t do becomes less important than whether the reaction to her actions is “fair.”   

In many ways, this is a red herring.  

[treehugger]

Also, no one is dredging up pictures from Meghan’s college years to prove a point or make a comment.  It is absolutely ludicrous to compare college Kate to a forty year old woman. 

[tabitha2]

Seems to me Meghan fans can (mostly) only make Meghan  look better  by putting  down Kate, Kates past, blaming Kate for being supposedly mean1!1 to her instead of discussing Meghan’s own merits ,activities and character as an individual exclusively.  

 

[viii]

6 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

What I don’t understand is why people are still comparing Kate and Meghan as though there is a competition or contest.  They are two different individuals who married two different brothers who occupy different places in the public imagination.

100%. 

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Seems to me Meghan fans can (mostly) only make Meghan  look better  by putting  down Kate, Kates past, blaming Kate for being supposedly mean1!1 to her instead of discussing Meghan’s own merits ,activities and character as an individual exclusively.  

 

I don’t know if it is necessarily “fans” of Meghan or just people that have embraced the narrative that (for whatever reason) the BRF and the British public did not treat Meghan fairly, but I agree that comparing the two seems to be the go-to mode whenever anything even mildly critical is said about Meghan.

I find Meghan and Harry interesting as people.  Both have taken huge steps outside what one would have expected from their backgrounds.  The dynamics between them is also interesting. So long as they remain in the public eye (where they clearly wish to be) their actions and motives will invite speculation, rather than uncritical applause.  And the fact that they can’t seem to handle this kind of attention — that they and their fans want only  uncritical praise— simply makes them more likely to be analyzed and critique.

If every time we start talking about Meghan we have to go a round of “how Meghan has been victimized” or “how Meghan has not been treated as well as Kate,” then it becomes difficult to explore other aspects or angles of Meghan’s public persona, the choices she and Harry have made, etc.  

It would be nice if we could move beyond the “Meghan as victim” narrative.  It is no more accurate, and just as tedious, as the “Meghan as monster” tale.

 

[Jackie3]

Quote

And maybe it was because Kate knew William would be there, in the front row, that just before it was her turn to take the stage, she decided to dispose of the chunky knitwear she was supposed to be wearing over Charlotte Todd's see-through long skirt and instead, as Andrew Sands' recalled, "hoisted the skirt up and made it a much better-looking dress, which she wore over her black underwear." 

Attention-getting. But it worked!

From Kate: The Future Queen

Edited July 5, 2022 by Jackie3

[EmCatlyn]

Did Harry and Meghan really get the Queen’s blessing on naming their daughter Lilibet? 

Quote

Enter a new version of events that seemingly arrives on a middle ground between the monarch knowing nothing about the baby name choice — and having offered her full blessing for the child to be called Lilibet.

A royal insider, interior designer Nicky Haslam, says the phone call between Prince Harry and his grandmother indeed took place, but not in the way that was previously reported. "I heard he [Harry] rang her and said: 'We want to call our daughter after you, Granny.' She said: 'How charming of you, thank you.'"

The misunderstanding according to Haslam was that she thought the name would be Elizabeth, not Lilibet. "So they got the permission, but they didn't say the name," the insider claims.

The List — Insider Claims Queen Misunderstood

Sounds plausible, even if the source is not impeccable.

[Jackie3]

11 hours ago, treehugger said:

Also, no one is dredging up pictures from Meghan’s college years to prove a point or make a comment.  It is absolutely ludicrous to compare college Kate to a forty year old woman. 

Dredge some up, then.

Did Meghan sign up to do a fashion show when she was 20? Did she get fitted for the clothes, clothes created by a young designer who had worked hard on them?  Then--without anyone's permission--did she modify the outfit at the last minute, to make it more attention-getting?

Did Meghan toss away what she had promised to wear--the "chunky knitwear" that would hide her bod? Did she pull up the long skirt -- the skirt the young designer had made--to get more attention?

If Meghan had done all this,  she'd have gotten a lot of negative attention for trying to attract the notice of a young prince. That would have been too uppity of her. Kate, of course, a wealthy white English girl, is allowed to be uppity. That's her privilege, a freedom from criticism to act as she likes.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Jackie3

[tabitha2]

Edit. I refuse to feed the troll.

Edited July 6, 2022 by tabitha2

[treehugger]

1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

Dredge some up, then. 

Oh hell no. I refuse to participate in a petty comparison game of any woman. I will call out bullshit if I feel like it, but I absolutely will not be involved in belittling or demeaning any woman for what she wears or the stuff she did as a teenager/young adult (especially if it isn’t hurting anyone).  Good grief. 

[prayawaythefundie]

I think Kate really hurt @Jackie3‘s feelings with that dress twenty years ago. Someone call Oprah for an interview, please! 

[Jackie3]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:20 AM, tabitha2 said:

You gotta know there were many many young women trying/ hoping to gain his attention. There were other aristocrats or  socialites in his circle just as pretty or more so, just as rich and connected but she had something that set her apart in his eyes and kept them together for years.  I think She had the qualities to be wife and future Queen he needed and he realized this. 

Yes, he was evaluating her qualities for "Queenliness" at the fashion show. She could have worn the chunky knitwear!

What Queenly Qualities does it take to say, "I open the Chelsea Flower Show!" WhatQueenly Qualities do you need to ride in a carriage or use solid gold cutlery (yes, the Queen's cutlery is solid gold, such a great use of money)? What Queenly Qualities do you need to pull a short rope and say, "The York School of Plumbing is now open!" Or to wave from a balcony wearing a slanty hat?

William and Harry seemed to think that a future Queen needs to be hot. I really don't think they chose with their heads at all (at least not the ones at the end of their neck).

Judging from their dating habits, only the hot young women in Britain had any Queenly Qualities at all.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Jackie3

[Jackie3]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:50 AM, viii said:

Maybe Kate did switch universities to attend the same one as William. Maybe she did participate in a fashion show in the hopes to catch his eye. Regardless of all the “maybes” that we don’t know, we know that the Firm is fiercely protective of their own. Kate and her family would have been heavily scrutinized and William must have felt that there was nothing suspicious in her behaviour. He must have been confident enough in her motives. Considering they’ve been together for over twenty years, continuing to question their beginning just seems dumb. They clearly get what they want out of each other, so who are we to say otherwise?

I think it's fine, even great, that Kate saw what she wanted and got it. The uni decision? The fashion show? Good for her! You go, girl! Who cares if it was 20 years ago, I hope she is doing the same now, at 40.

I think that it's fine for her to seek all the attention she wants. The same is true with Meghan! You want attention, ladies, go for it!

 It'd be hypocritical to say that Kate can do it, but Meghan can't.

[prayawaythefundie]

16 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

William and Harry seemed to think that a future Queen needs to be hot.

I’m shocked to my very core! Two young men going out with women they are physically attracted to - can you believe it? One of them is still with that woman twenty years later. What a superficial playboy! 😆

[Jackie3]

22 minutes ago, prayawaythefundie said:

I’m shocked to my very core! Two young men going out with women they are physically attracted to - can you believe it? One of them is still with that woman twenty years later. What a superficial playboy! 😆

Exactly, lol! Physical attraction was a big part o it, I am sure.  "Queenly Qualities," OTOH, weren't much of a factor!

Edited July 6, 2022 by Jackie3

[just_ordinary]

7 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Did Harry and Meghan really get the Queen’s blessing on naming their daughter Lilibet? 

Sounds plausible, even if the source is not impeccable.

I call BS on the source. But I absolutely can see different scenarios where HMTQ did not give them permission to use Lilibet and was surprised and not too happy about it and H&M thought she did all of it. I can be down to mere semantics. Did they say- Granny, we like to use Lilibet- would you be ok with it? OR Granny, we think Lilibet would be a wonderful name- which is not asking per se. I mean, many people wouldn’t jump in and say, Oh how awful or Don’t do it instead of smiling and bitching about it with someone else. They might have not been to clear as to what the actual name would be. And obviously there are miles between saying What a lovely choice and Yes, I allow you to do so. The result might be the same, but as H&M love to nitpick, the first line may indicate permission but it’s not. Heck, maybe her hearing isn’t as good anymore or her brain and she forgot. Not that I believe that, but can also not to be dismissed completely with a 90+Year old.

I don’t think she would have denied their request or spoken up when being informed, even if she didn’t like it. The fact that she (allegedly) intervened with one of her grandchildren is not holding up if you look at her other great-grandchildren. If she didn’t veto Savannah, Isla, Sienna, Mia and Lena (as examples for more modern and not traditionally British royal names) there is really no reason to veto Archie or Lilibet.

The palace has not responded to the whole drama. Which was to be expected. But the fact that the BBC didn’t take the article down AFTER H threatened to sue them is a strong indicator to me, that they had to believe they have good enough sources to win a law suit.

Additionally, H&M seem to be those people that hear what they want to hear. We all do that to a certain extent but some people hear completely different things than what was actually said. 

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

I call BS on the source. But I absolutely can see different scenarios where HMTQ did not give them permission to use Lilibet and was surprised and not too happy about it and H&M thought she did all of it. I can be down to mere semantics. Did they say- Granny, we like to use Lilibet- would you be ok with it? OR Granny, we think Lilibet would be a wonderful name- which is not asking per se. I mean, many people wouldn’t jump in and say, Oh how awful or Don’t do it instead of smiling and bitching about it with someone else. They might have not been to clear as to what the actual name would be. And obviously there are miles between saying What a lovely choice and Yes, I allow you to do so. The result might be the same, but as H&M love to nitpick, the first line may indicate permission but it’s not. Heck, maybe her hearing isn’t as good anymore or her brain and she forgot. Not that I believe that, but can also not to be dismissed completely with a 90+Year old.

I don’t think she would have denied their request or spoken up when being informed, even if she didn’t like it. The fact that she (allegedly) intervened with one of her grandchildren is not holding up if you look at her other great-grandchildren. If she didn’t veto Savannah, Isla, Sienna, Mia and Lena (as examples for more modern and not traditionally British royal names) there is really no reason to veto Archie or Lilibet.

The palace has not responded to the whole drama. Which was to be expected. But the fact that the BBC didn’t take the article down AFTER H threatened to sue them is a strong indicator to me, that they had to believe they have good enough sources to win a law suit.

Additionally, H&M seem to be those people that hear what they want to hear. We all do that to a certain extent but some people hear completely different things than what was actually said. 

Yeah, I generally don’t trust this source, but I find the story believable.  The issue about Lilibet’s name is that it was a private nickname for the Queen, not just a “non-traditional” name.  We have two versions of whether or not the Queen was told that they were going to use her nickname as the kid’s name.  If neither version is a lie, a misunderstanding could explain the discrepancy.  As you say, the BBC was not worried about legal action.  

[Four is Enough]

Well I certainly wouldn't have  called my child by a nickname, queen's nickname or not. Not on their birth certificate. And my opinion doesn't matter a hill of beans, but I'm putting it out there nonetheless. Feel free to scroll by.

[viii]

39 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Well I certainly wouldn't have  called my child by a nickname, queen's nickname or not. Not on their birth certificate. And my opinion doesn't matter a hill of beans, but I'm putting it out there nonetheless. Feel free to scroll by.

I hate nicknames as names. 

[louisa05]

6 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

I’m shocked to my very core! Two young men going out with women they are physically attracted to - can you believe it? One of them is still with that woman twenty years later. What a superficial playboy! 😆

So apparently, her trollness, would approve of William’s wife if she were someone she found unattractive. Just how unattractive would she have to be? Give us a ballpark here. I mean would average be acceptable or would you prefer full on physical deformities? 

[tabitha2]

Nah. This person still would have found something negative and bitter and probably body shaming to say . 

[just_ordinary]

I had to make use of the “ignore user” options for the first time on this website.  Which is kind of sad, because some comments were well worth arguing about, but it just got too much for me.

[viii]

32 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I had to make use of the “ignore user” options for the first time on this website.  Which is kind of sad, because some comments were well worth arguing about, but it just got too much for me.

It’s healthy to have discussions with various opinions but when one person is hell bent on being argumentative, the discussion is no longer productive. 

[catlady]

28 minutes ago, viii said:

It’s healthy to have discussions with various opinions but when one person is hell bent on being argumentative a complete and utter jackass determined to create excessive petty and bullshit drama where none exists, the discussion is no longer productive. 

FTFY.....

[Jackie3]

10 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I call BS on the source. But I absolutely can see different scenarios where HMTQ did not give them permission to use Lilibet and was surprised and not too happy about it and H&M thought she did all of it.

Sorry, do you NEED someone's permission when naming your child? Because we didn't consult with anyone about our kids' names. Aren't Harry and Meghan free to name their daughter whatever they want?