Harry & Meghan 8: Time's Most Insufferable

[Ozlsn]

I have to say I had not considered this as an option for the Sussexes but I would totally watch this.

Spoiler

 

[Coconut Flan]

Another contradiction of Meghan's claims:

https://www.newsweek.com/meghan-markle-seen-dinner-lunch-shopping-during-royal-imprisonmentbook-1636018

[just_ordinary]

It’s not that easy. She very well might have gotten those comments. It’s sound PR advice for one person (oversaturated market) and for a group strategy where you are not even the third fiddle. She also never defined when exactly this 4 month period was and I don’t think anyone has really taken the effort to identify when she wasn’t out and about as much. Because if there are no published/stocked pictures or reports the public has no chance to verify it/prove the claim wrong. I can absolutely see that she might have talked about the time when she was off due the end of her pregnancy/the birth/postpartum/maternity leave. She had few official engagements, the PR narrative was that she was completely concentrating on motherhood, no nanny, breast feeding… getting several pics of her out and about for lunch, coffee or shopping would have contradicted this narrative, especially if she wouldn’t have taken Archie.
It’s their classic pattern of being careless with their words/presenting on a shallow surface. You can probably find proof for and against her claim easily if you look for it  so without more details her fans will believe her and her critics feel confirmed in that she is a liar/over dramatic.

But I can also understand where she comes from to a certain point. It seems she is an extrovert and needs social interaction. It also seems she is a bit of a social butterfly and wants to meet up with her friends and acquaintances. I say acquaintances on purpose here. The royals and Kate have very close, rather small group of friends. They don’t snitch. They don’t search the lime light. You often don’t even know who they are and how they meet up. That’s a very different definition of friends than “friends” that feed off each other’s popularity (not sayings it’s problematic if both are fine with it. It’s just different) or that are more like meet up once a year but are not really invested in each other’s lives. M has/had close confidants and I absolutely understand if she wanted to continue those relationships as they were. I don’t think anyone (or her husband) told her how different the BRF is on that regard. They have their own and some good reasons. They are paranoid about snitches and I totally see them being concerned about M’s friends (that they wouldn’t all define as friends). And it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume some of them would try to gain something by being associated with M. Stylist friend Jessica and M seeing out shopping for example. And while this would be completely fine for M and J it’s not fine for the DoS and J. 
I believe M thought she could continue to go on numerous private outings. It’s common knowledge and I can see H emphasising that the royals manage to do so. Probably to reassure her that she wouldn’t be isolated (in a foreign country). But I think no one realised that the definition of “numerous” outings varied extremely (easy to believe if you have basically just dated for 1,5 years, most of it long distance and not really experienced the partner’s way of life). It’s actually a very classic case of communication and understanding problem that many relationships experience in one way or another. Only difference- it’s mostly the partners fighting it out and less often the couple against the family. If I were M I would be furious with H that he let me run into this like that (and with myself that we didn’t talk details, but who does when on cloud 9). And H is probably furious that all the things he thought would be changed for them/ he promised her didn’t happen (might his perception be steeped in reality or he just assumed from vague brainstorming moments).

In retrospect it’s no surprise that the whole thing blew up so spectacularly. I mean, there is a reason why many relationships break over such things (moving country for the partner, marrying into high profile families, marrying into dysfunctional families……) and it’s no surprise there are tons of books, blogs and videos where people explain how even tiny things make it hard to call a new country home for a long time (different ways of flushing a toilet, different cereals, different table manners, different social cues). Add marrying into circumstances that are a special kind of different. There were so many tripping stones, if they had been ten years younger and had the means and time to wait for 5-7 years (living together in Britain for a couple of years just to get a feeling for it), we might have seen a different outcome. Or maybe not. Realising this way of life isn’t for you and leaving it behind is absolutely fine. Throwing public tantrums and their whole show around it, is what tripped many people deep into the critics territory. 

[Smash!]

@just_ordinary There are for sure tons of difficulties when moving to another country and marrying into such a visible family. I wonder what did Prince Frederik of Denmark and his Australian (?) wife or King Willem Alexander of Netherlands and Argentinian born Queen Maxima differently that it worked out in those cases? Did Meghan underestimate the cultural difference between the US and UK?

[Ozlsn]

3 hours ago, Smash! said:

I wonder what did Prince Frederik of Denmark and his Australian (?) wife

Mary had a lot of in depth "royal training" from the palace and help from her husband and his family after they were outed as dating and before they got married, including immersion learning of Danish, protocols (royal and I think just Danish cultural ones) and so forth. She was younger than Markle (28 vs 39) when they met, so there was less pressure in some respects on the childbearing front (more in others because of expectations that there would be children).  She was I think also to some extent shielded by the palace from the press a bit - no idea what the Danish press is like but the Australian press were highly interested. They also got married around four years after meeting - so not particularly fast, with some time to get an idea of what she was getting into. I have to say that for me giving up citizenship would have been a very strong indication that I loved the person - she might be more relaxed about it. Personally I think a lot came down to her now husband and his family doing a lot to help her adjust, as well as the Danish and Australian press being less rabid than the UK tabloids - and of course her being willing to learn and change. I don't know if xenophobia was an issue in the Danish press, but racism probably wasn't.

Also helps that Frederick appears to be considerably more stable and have fewer issues than Harry.

[Coconut Flan]

9 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

In retrospect it’s no surprise that the whole thing blew up so spectacularly. I mean, there is a reason why many relationships break over such things (moving country for the partner, marrying into high profile families, marrying into dysfunctional families……) and it’s no surprise there are tons of books, blogs and videos where people explain how even tiny things make it hard to call a new country home for a long time (different ways of flushing a toilet, different cereals, different table manners, different social cues). Add marrying into circumstances that are a special kind of different. There were so many tripping stones, if they had been ten years younger and had the means and time to wait for 5-7 years (living together in Britain for a couple of years just to get a feeling for it), we might have seen a different outcome. Or maybe not. Realising this way of life isn’t for you and leaving it behind is absolutely fine. Throwing public tantrums and their whole show around it, is what tripped

All true.  I fully expected the marriage to implode by the three year mark for mostly the same reasons you listed.  I didn't expect that Harry would basically implode and leave almost everything for Meghan.  That she would want to cut and run at some point was a given to me from the start.  That isn't even really blaming her.  Her goals and personality were not made for that position in the BRF.  

It's her exaggeration and over dramatization of things that I will probably never tire of noting though.  It's part of her and I doubt she'll change it any time soon.  

[viii]

She will have to leave him for the marriage to be over, imo. I think Harry is stubborn as hell and he won't want to prove to others (ie his brother) that they were right and he should have taken his time. He will dig his heels in as long as he can. 

[Coconut Flan]

16 minutes ago, viii said:

She will have to leave him for the marriage to be over, imo. I think Harry is stubborn as hell and he won't want to prove to others (ie his brother) that they were right and he should have taken his time. He will dig his heels in as long as he can. 

The way this is evolving I think you're right about that.  I'd never paid much attention to Harry until right before the engagement and I think he's far more damaged than I'd realized.  

[louisa05]

12 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

The way this is evolving I think you're right about that.  I'd never paid much attention to Harry until right before the engagement and I think he's far more damaged than I'd realized.  

She will discard him eventually. That’s her M.O. People who discard people routinely don’t stop doing it. 

[viii]

26 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

The way this is evolving I think you're right about that.  I'd never paid much attention to Harry until right before the engagement and I think he's far more damaged than I'd realized.  

I actually think he's far worse than she is, which is why the whole "Megxit" never sat well with me. She's being painted as this villainous woman who has swooped in and stole Harry away from his family, when the truth is - he is so incredibly damaged and seems to be resisting any forms of help. I think they both suffer from mental health issues and they're a volatile combination. He needs to be held accountable for his actions, rather than all the blame be placed on her, because his red flags were there long before Meghan was ever on the scene. 

12 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

She will discard him eventually. That’s her M.O. People who discard people routinely don’t stop doing it. 

I've defended Meghan cutting people out of her life quite a bit, because she does have some valid reasons to cut people like her father, her half sister, Jessica, etc out. However, she also does have a pattern and doesn't seem to have a consistent support system around her, which is a little troublesome. 

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, viii said:

he is so incredibly damaged and seems to be resisting any forms of help. I think they both suffer from mental health issues and they're a volatile combination.

Agree with both but especially the combination being synergistic at the moment. Eveb if they had stepped back out of the public eye completely there would still be a lot to work through, even with just the different cultural expectations, new marriage and young kids.  

[DalmatianCat]

7 hours ago, viii said:

She will have to leave him for the marriage to be over, imo. I think Harry is stubborn as hell and he won't want to prove to others (ie his brother) that they were right and he should have taken his time. He will dig his heels in as long as he can. 

Only time will tell, but I’m guessing the odds are pretty low that both William and Harry’s first marriages will be their only marriages. So far most of the grandchildren’s marriages seem much calmer than all of their parents’ first marriages (except for Edward and Sophie…he must have observed his siblings and taken notes). Even Peter and Autumn Philip’s divorce has seemed quiet and private.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, DalmatianCat said:

Only time will tell, but I’m guessing the odds are pretty low that both William and Harry’s first marriages will be their only marriages.

So you think that both William and Harry will divorce and remarry? 

[DalmatianCat]

13 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

So you think that both William and Harry will divorce and remarry? 

Sorry…I worded that rather clumsily. I meant I think at least one of them will eventually divorce and remarry. Both of them having successful first marriages that last a lifetime would definitely beat a lot of odds. But they both might divorce, I don’t know. For their kids (as well as their own) sakes, I hope  William, Kate, Harry, and Meghan are all happy. Considering how much later in life Harry settled down and how long William and Kate dated, I do think they both put some thought into how their parents marriage broke down and they seem keen to not want to repeat that.

[just_ordinary]

@viii I am not sure she actually cut out Jessica to be honest. It seems they are still friends but less close/public. Isn’t M the godmother of one of her kids and very probably the other way round? 

Not having a relationship to your step siblings isn’t unusual, especially if you didn’t really grew up together. And people bashing you publicly don’t need to be surprised if they are cut off and certainly not welcomed with open arms (oh the irony).

 The story with her father is quite different though. She used to write a few gushing blog posts about him on her blog. It’s very unclear when it really went down hill (before or after Harry).

So I don’t think she really has a pattern of cutting people out. More like, being close to people for some time. Probably work triggered, most people form bonds at work that frizzle out after leaving. That’s also very normal for actors. Don’t think Jennifer Aniston and Lisa Kudrow spend so much time together as they used while on set together.

[just_ordinary]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:13 AM, Smash! said:

@just_ordinary There are for sure tons of difficulties when moving to another country and marrying into such a visible family. I wonder what did Prince Frederik of Denmark and his Australian (?) wife or King Willem Alexander of Netherlands and Argentinian born Queen Maxima differently that it worked out in those cases? Did Meghan underestimate the cultural difference between the US and UK?

They haven’t had it easy too. But their set up was also different. Neither Maxima nor Mary were public personas. Both relationships went on for 4 years till they tied the knot. And under the radar for a long time. No one dropped hints about it and the Danish and Oranje royals don’t have the same profile and hype around them. Both women made a massive effort to assimilate (not just adapt). They spoke more or less fluent Danish/Dutch in their engagement interviews. They adhered to “protocol” a lot in the beginning. The men were both the Number two after the monarch, so no animosities around profile. But both women suffered from media scrutiny. The marriage of Maxima and Wiliam almost didn’t happen and she had to marry without her father and seems to have cut ties with her old life almost completely. Or rather she is extremely discreet about it. She made a big point to be as Dutch as possible while embracing her open and bubbly personality.

Mary got tones of bad press for her spending habits in the first years (they all do though). And lots of talk about an eating disorder. She just got on with it though and it seems the public might not adore frantically but likes her just fine. She also made a point in presenting herself has very Danish.

Both have taken on the way of life and customs of the countries they represent. I think many forget they are not really from there most of the time. They/the institutions dealt with criticism in the classic way- is it normal (spending, looks…) ignore, is it well deserved (showcasing the country, going on vacation while the subjects are locked up at home) look sorry and to better (at least for some time).

Both royal families are smaller, less hyped and have way less drama around them. Both men have a way lower profile than Diana’s Boys. They were seen as grown men and people did not have that unhealthy attachment (that W&H have both fuelled when it served them).

I think the biggest difference is that both women had a better idea about their new life but were also committed to it in a more serious way than M. Both man didn’t waver but also didn’t sugar coat. And I am sure preparing future Queen’s, representing the country with the HoS has an extremely high importance for the monarchy. A sister in law just doesn’t. That’s the rational objective and I think that’s were H wasn’t really paying attention to reality.

I think the marriages of William’s  and Fredrick’s siblings (same level as H) show clearly that being in the shadow of the brother and marrying into a high profile family is putting enough strain on a relationship. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by just_ordinary

[Xanariel]

22 hours ago, viii said:

I actually think he's far worse than she is, which is why the whole "Megxit" never sat well with me. She's being painted as this villainous woman who has swooped in and stole Harry away from his family, when the truth is - he is so incredibly damaged and seems to be resisting any forms of help. I think they both suffer from mental health issues and they're a volatile combination. He needs to be held accountable for his actions, rather than all the blame be placed on her, because his red flags were there long before Meghan was ever on the scene. 

 Fully agree with all of this. I think Harry's at the root of most of their problems with his family, and a lot of Meghan's disillusionment seems to be down to Harry selling her a very different vision of what life would be like (particularly in regards to how glamorous day-to-day engagements for the family are and what the family of the second grand/son of a monarch was entitled to). 

I think that Harry was really heavily shielded from the consequences of his actions by Buckingham Palace's PR team and by the fact everyone saw him as a boy who lost his mother well into his adult years. They worked double-time to bury or soften his more serious acts - injuring a pony, shooting endangered birds, repeated racism. The public were definitely more forgiving of him than for when female royals had bad press. 

I think that may explain why he seems to handle bad press so poorly and why he blames it on a malicious media or people not understanding, rather than that he made a misjudgement (like private jets). So Meghan's getting blamed for the transformation from a humble, cheeky prince to a sulky, entitled manchild, when he was there all along. 

Hopefully his new job works out and gives him something to focus on. Otherwise, while I generally dislike people comparing them to Edward and Wallis - as nothing Harry and Meghan have done compares to being actual Nazis - I could see Meghan eventually identifying somewhat with this quote by Wallis describing the aftermath of the abdication:

"I woke up and there was David standing by the bed with his innocent smile, saying 'And now, what do we do?' My heart sank. Here was someone whose every day had been arranged for him all his life, and now I was the one taking the place of the entirety of the British Government, trying to think up things for him to do."

[EmCatlyn]

Quote

A party to honour Diana, Princess of Wales is set to take place at Kensington Palace this month.

While the Duke of Cambridge is set to be joined by 100 guests for the bash a week on Tuesday, a spokesperson confirmed to HELLO! that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will not be in attendance. 

Source: Hello

[EmCatlyn]

On 10/9/2021 at 10:44 AM, Xanariel said:

 ….

Hopefully his new job works out and gives him something to focus on. Otherwise, while I generally dislike people comparing them to Edward and Wallis - as nothing Harry and Meghan have done compares to being actual Nazis - I could see Meghan eventually identifying somewhat with this quote by Wallis describing the aftermath of the abdication:

"I woke up and there was David standing by the bed with his innocent smile, saying 'And now, what do we do?' My heart sank. Here was someone whose every day had been arranged for him all his life, and now I was the one taking the place of the entirety of the British Government, trying to think up things for him to do."

I have just been reading Andrew Morton’s Seventeen Carnations about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, and while I agree that Harry and Meghan are not in any way as bad as Edward and Wallis (not Nazi sympathizers, for sure!) I see a lot of similarities between the things Edward just “didn’t get” and some of the tone-deaf things Harry and Meghan have done.

You are right that one problem that Harry and his uncle both faced is that they were used to having other people plan and organize their lives for them.  Even though they rebelled, they didn’t have any experience in leading a life outside the royal “bubble.”  I think Harry may be doing a better job than Edward did of finding a role for himself

This is in part because he wasn’t a monarch who quit his job, and also because in general the Queen and Prince Charles have treated him better than Edward was treated by his brother and sis-in-law. Not being at the edge of a WW also makes a difference. (And not being a Nazi sympathizer playing with Nazis also shows good judgment.  )

[LilaMae]

Harry and Meghan are now Impact Partners for an ethical investment company. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/business/dealbook/harry-meghan-ethical-investors.html

Quotes from the couple: 

"Harry and Meghan can make E.S.G. investing part of pop culture in a way that, say, BlackRock’s Larry Fink can’t. “From the world I come from, you don’t talk about investing, right?” Meghan told DealBook in a joint interview with Harry. “You don’t have the luxury to invest. That sounds so fancy.”

“My husband has been saying for years, ‘Gosh, don’t you wish there was a place where if your values were aligned like this, you could put your money to that same sort of thing?’” Meghan said. They were introduced to Ethic by friends, she said."

 

Meghan attended LA private schools throughout her childhood, went to university, had an internship at an American embassy (courtesy of her US diplomat uncle) and then became a Hollywood actress. I have no idea why she's pretending that she has had an underprivileged life where she didn't have access to wealthy friends who she could discuss this with if she actually wanted to. And Harry has had millions of pounds in various inheritances and trust funds, plus connections with some of the wealthiest landowners in the UK. 

 

 

[tabitha2]

Because it looks far better in the press and gullible fans for them to pretend they are just regular people! Just like you!  See I have rescue Chickens just like everyone else!!  
 

 

[viii]

7 hours ago, LilaMae said:

Meghan attended LA private schools throughout her childhood, went to university, had an internship at an American embassy (courtesy of her US diplomat uncle) and then became a Hollywood actress. I have no idea why she's pretending that she has had an underprivileged life where she didn't have access to wealthy friends who she could discuss this with if she actually wanted to. And Harry has had millions of pounds in various inheritances and trust funds, plus connections with some of the wealthiest landowners in the UK. 

It's absolutely stupid the way she's pretending she didn't have a life of privilege. I'm sure her parents made a lot of sacrifices to make that happen, but Meghan went to private school from K-12 and grew up on film sets with her dad. Acting otherwise is just such a dumb, dumb move because it can be proven otherwise. If you're going to lie, lie about shit that's not cold hard facts. 

[just_ordinary]

Are they even investing with Ethics themselves? Because iirc right now they just promote them. Kind of like influencers. They are getting paid to praise them and make people consider investing through them. The only thing missing is “so many asked about our finances” and “they kindly offered us a code for you: use MehHar2022 and they top up your investment with $5”. Let’s hope the thing doesn’t implode and people actually loose money. Hopefully it is an investment company that offers ethical shares and fonds and has a well spread portfolio. Not only offering ethical investments but treating the money of their customers ethical too and are all managed and apply to ethical work standards.

Edited October 13, 2021 by just_ordinary

[EmCatlyn]

10 hours ago, LilaMae said:

Harry and Meghan are now Impact Partners for an ethical investment company. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/business/dealbook/harry-meghan-ethical-investors.html

Quotes from the couple: 

"Harry and Meghan can make E.S.G. investing part of pop culture in a way that, say, BlackRock’s Larry Fink can’t. “From the world I come from, you don’t talk about investing, right?” Meghan told DealBook in a joint interview with Harry. “You don’t have the luxury to invest. That sounds so fancy.”

“My husband has been saying for years, ‘Gosh, don’t you wish there was a place where if your values were aligned like this, you could put your money to that same sort of thing?’” Meghan said. They were introduced to Ethic by friends, she said."

Meghan attended LA private schools throughout her childhood, went to university, had an internship at an American embassy (courtesy of her US diplomat uncle) and then became a Hollywood actress. I have no idea why she's pretending that she has had an underprivileged life where she didn't have access to wealthy friends who she could discuss this with if she actually wanted to. And Harry has had millions of pounds in various inheritances and trust funds, plus connections with some of the wealthiest landowners in the UK. 

Two thoughts:  First, I agree that Meghan’s pretense that “from the world [she] come[s] from, you don’t talk about investing,” is ridiculous.  Second, I wouldn’t be surprised if Harry, who definitely had access to a lot more wealth and consorted with much wealthier people than she did, actually heard a lot less about money and investments than she did.

Meghan grew up in Hollywood.  She grew up around people whose money was acquired relatively recently and who generally have no inhibitions about talking about money.  Harry grew up in a world where you don’t talk about money in social situations.  It is considered crass to discuss investments, profits, etc. outside of actual business discussions.  So if Harry didn’t pay much attention to where the money was coming from and how his financial people were dealing with it, he may actually have been exposed less to talk about investments and so forth than Meghan was.

That being said, it is clear that M and H are just saying whatever they think will “sell” both the products they promote and their own “brand.”  And I agree that when their self-portraits go too far from the truth that anyone who wants to can verify, everything about them becomes suspect.

[EmCatlyn]

Quote

The Queen was among the first to meet Lili after she was born in a video call, People reported on June 8. 
Elle

This is less a comment about the Sussexes than about the idea that Lilibet was born in a video call. 😉🤣

The article itself is a rehash of “where shall Lilibet be christened.”  Apparently the Sussexes are saying, “It’s not decided yet,” and British media is saying the kid will be baptized in an Episcopal service in LA, not at Windsor as had been rumored.

I just can’t get the idea of the Queen witnessing Lili’s birth “in a video call” out of my head.  (Misplaced modifiers are so much fun!)