So what if a coutrship doesn't work out

[BexRani]

I agree the 'giving away pieces of your heart' is a silly teaching. It makes emotions sound like a finite thing. I would also think that it places undue guilt on the person who has had a failed relationship.

[treemom]

A child should be taught responsibilty so that by the time they leave home they are full functioning and responsible adults.

True - I cannot force anyone to do anything outside of their choice and free will. But I can teach and help my children to make a better choice in life. And this includes abstaining from Pre-marital sex.

As a side note not only does God command the abstaniance of sex before and outside of marriage there are also the health risks that come with this that I desire to protect my children from.

Those same health risks are present if you have sex only with one person.

[annalena]

To try to form a relationship apart from emotional attachment is not healthy. If my child wanted to not use the term "court" fine with me. I would enforce certain rules- no sex before marriage is definite. Call me crazy but that's my belief and God's command.

These are your rules. Don't force them onto your children. They are indivuals with differend values and ideas than you might have.

Besides, if a child decides to have sex, you won't stop them.

[takers401]

Why shouldn't she have these rules for her children? If she truly believes that pre-marital sex is wrong then passing that belief on to her children is her parenting decision. Just as her children, upon reaching the legal adulthood age of 18, have the right to determine that her beliefs aren't for them and ignore them. Do people (general) feel that parents should not teach their children the parent's beliefs because their children may not agree with it? Isn't that our job as parents? Instill our beliefs within our kids and hope that when they're on their own they continue with those beliefs. Not necessarily talking religious ones here but the overall theme. If my husband and I are hugely into the environment and being as green as possible (I'll admit we're not) then wouldn't I want to raise my children with a belief in saving our planet and be sad if they end up pro-pollution?

I honestly don't know what I'll be teaching my kids (my husband is on the side of premarital sex is okay once they're "older" adults - I'm not sure if I agree with his stance or want to push nothing until marriage) and am glad I have a long, long time before I need to even think about it.

[debrand]

Why shouldn't she have these rules for her children? If she truly believes that pre-marital sex is wrong then passing that belief on to her children is her parenting decision. Just as her children, upon reaching the legal adulthood age of 18, have the right to determine that her beliefs aren't for them and ignore them. Do people (general) feel that parents should not teach their children the parent's beliefs because their children may not agree with it? Isn't that our job as parents? Instill our beliefs within our kids and hope that when they're on their own they continue with those beliefs. Not necessarily talking religious ones here but the overall theme. If my husband and I are hugely into the environment and being as green as possible (I'll admit we're not) then wouldn't I want to raise my children with a belief in saving our planet and be sad if they end up pro-pollution?

I honestly don't know what I'll be teaching my kids (my husband is on the side of premarital sex is okay once they're "older" adults - I'm not sure if I agree with his stance or want to push nothing until marriage) and am glad I have a long, long time before I need to even think about it.

If you read back through the thread, most of us were talking about a child over the age of 18. Bella said that if the girl wanted to date, she would enforce the rule of no sex. We wondered how she would do that.

I found my original question. I had not specified an adult child. It is what I meant but I admit, I did not ask about a child of legal age. In all fairness, she might be talking about a 14 year old when I meant a legal adult

Bexrani, if your daughter decided that courtship was not for them, would you support their decision?

[Austin]

It's fine to have beliefs and standards. But once children are no longer children, if they haven't internalized those beliefs as their own, then they're not theirs and they are not bound by them, nor should they be.

[takers401]

If you read back through the thread, most of us were talking about a child over the age of 18. Bella said that if the girl wanted to date, she would enforce the rule of no sex. We wondered how she would do that.

I found my original question. I had not specified an adult child. It is what I meant but I admit, I did not ask about a child of legal age. In all fairness, she might be talking about a 14 year old when I meant a legal adult

Didn't catch that we were talking about children over 18. That totally changes my opinion. I think once your child is 18 you've basically raised them the way they're raised and it's now up to them to make their choices. You can do the "not in my house" bit (i.e., no, you're girlfriend cannot spend in the night at my house) but you can't really ground them if you find out they're having sex. That train of child rearing has left the station a long time ago.

Thanks for setting me straight on the age of the kids in the discussion!

[emmiedahl]

I would like to point out that the poster speaking so glowingly of courtship and her marriage is still a honeymooner.

I just love getting cooking advice from people who are just boiling their first pot of water. :)

[BexRani]

So what if I am a honeymooner? :) do I have to wait 25 years to say my marriage is a success? This is an honest question by the way.

And if you all can share your opinions I can too right? I am not forcing them on you. I don't care if you agree with me or not. But discussions would be rather boring if we all said and thought the exact same thing right? I find all your opinions so interesting! Let me share and disagree if you want. You share and I will opinionate too.

[BexRani]

oh and about the cooking comment, my husband and i have both been taught by the best "chefs" around.

my parents: 25 years

his parents: 24 years

his uncles and aunts: about 25-30 years average.

his grandparents: 55 years

my grandparents:49 years

not to mention several sets of older cousins happily courted or dated (yes i said dated) and married.

So we have alot of people we can seek counsel from. They are happily married. Do we have relatives not happily married? of course we do. we learn from their mistakes too. a divorced uncle of mine gave me some advice on what not to do.

so yes. yes we are new at this. yes we make mistakes. But we are doing very well.

hey any advice you guys have I would appreciate too

edited for clarity

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote="BexRani"...

hey any advice you guys have I would appreciate too

[myanimus]

As a side note not only does God command the abstaniance of sex before and outside of marriage

God talks about adultery and when pre-marital sex is mentioned he talks about taking them to be a bride. Please point me to the verse that God commands abstinence.

[Guest LilaFowler]

Even I could have predicted that a courtship between the lady whose blog is Simply Sanctified and Christopher Maxwell wouldn't work. She dresses modern and normal, wears makeup, and just seems like a very spirited person that likes to have fun and be active. Steve wouldn't allow that into his family.

[emmiedahl]

So what if I am a honeymooner? :) do I have to wait 25 years to say my marriage is a success? This is an honest question by the way.

And if you all can share your opinions I can too right? I am not forcing them on you. I don't care if you agree with me or not. But discussions would be rather boring if we all said and thought the exact same thing right? I find all your opinions so interesting! Let me share and disagree if you want. You share and I will opinionate too.

Well, almost all marriages are successful for the first few months. Even a pimp and a crack whore can get along that long. So, yes, I only really take marriage advice from people who have withstood the test of time. After 5 miscarriages, a lay-off that vaulted us into a lower socioeconomic class, dealing with ex-spouses and stepchildren, etc, I have learned a lot about living nicely with another person. After a month or two, you are still playing house.

[BexRani]

[quote="BexRani"...

hey any advice you guys have I would appreciate too

How big is your home? I'm thinking its got to be rather spacious considering the size of your ego.

[BexRani]

Well, almost all marriages are successful for the first few months. Even a pimp and a crack whore can get along that long. So, yes, I only really take marriage advice from people who have withstood the test of time. After 5 miscarriages, a lay-off that vaulted us into a lower socioeconomic class, dealing with ex-spouses and stepchildren, etc, I have learned a lot about living nicely with another person. After a month or two, you are still playing house.

Yes, I agree with you to take advice from those who have had a happy successful and long marriage. I guess I am just an enthusiastic newly wed. My husband and I are doing better then I thought we would before I got married so I just am excited.

I also want to add that I am truly sorry for your miscarriages. I lost 2 siblings that way...

so, how long does one have to be married to say it is a success? I am being honest and not sarcastic, please don't think i am being sarcastic. You have been through alot and you do have my respect.

[BexRani]

God talks about adultery and when pre-marital sex is mentioned he talks about taking them to be a bride. Please point me to the verse that God commands abstinence.

Do you really want a verse?

[treemom]

Yeah gotta say it was easy in the beginning when everything was new and squishy. We lost a child, terminated a pregnancy, survived financial woes, dealt with family issues, had a live baby, changed jobs, bought two houses and 4 cars, got a dog, cat and now have his father dying of cancer. We have been married nearly 15 years and I still can't tell people what is right about marriage or whether mine is a success.

Some days it is a success, some days it isn't. So yes, you do need more time and experience before you can manage that.

[myanimus]

Do you really want a verse?

If you are going to say God commands it, then yes, absolutely! I can't say that I'd teach my kids it would please God to have premarital sex but I'm very, VERY against anyone saying God said something He didn't. Especially when that something being said is something that can make young girls (and boys) feel like shit about themselves.

[BexRani]

Someone asked does God command in the Bible to abstain from sex before marriage and sex outside of marriage?

Yes it does.

Acts 15:20 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

-fornication is sex outside of marriage.

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

And I agree entirely that we should not teach what is not so in God's words. Those who abuse God's word and teach false concepts to children teens and adults and make them feel undue guilt are blasphemous and wrong, absolutely wrong and God even says something in the Bible about this!

Matt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

And I agree.

[BexRani]

Yeah gotta say it was easy in the beginning when everything was new and squishy. We lost a child, terminated a pregnancy, survived financial woes, dealt with family issues, had a live baby, changed jobs, bought two houses and 4 cars, got a dog, cat and now have his father dying of cancer. We have been married nearly 15 years and I still can't tell people what is right about marriage or whether mine is a success.

Some days it is a success, some days it isn't. So yes, you do need more time and experience before you can manage that.

thankyou, again you have my respect

[emmiedahl]

so, how long does one have to be married to say it is a success? I am being honest and not sarcastic, please don't think i am being sarcastic. You have been through alot and you do have my respect.

I don't think it is a matter of time. I think there is a point when you realize that you have been through some extreme crap and it has only made you closer.

I don't think any marriage is divorce-proof, and I love that we both have the option to leave rather than to stay unhappily if it got that bad.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't think it is a matter of time. I think there is a point when you realize that you have been through some extreme crap and it has only made you closer.

I don't think any marriage is divorce-proof, and I love that we both have the option to leave rather than to stay unhappily if it got that bad.

My best friend has been successfully married for 26 years, she and her husband separated a month ago and will eventually divorce. Their separation and eventual divorce doesn't make their marriage any less successful, it merely means that for them the relationship had run its course.

I was successfully married to my daughters father for 16 years, divorce did not erase the success of that marriage.

Recently I separated from my husband of 4 years, IMHO that marriage was never successful.

[myanimus]

Fornication is taken from the word Porne (sp?) it's meaning back in the day referring to harlots, prostitutes, and sex with idols. Churches teach that the word fornication is sex, any sex outside of marriage however if you refer to the greek hebrew meanings you can see that it was in reference to the above. Also, apparently at one point fornication was taught to be anything sexual not only outside of marriage but married people having sex were considered to be fornicating too. It's pretty crazy :shock:

ETA i think its spelled pornea, also, masturbation is included in fornication too.

I'm not saying to teach kids to rush out and have sex but I'm not okay teaching them sex is shame either.

[BexRani]

pparently at one point fornication was taught to be anything sexual not only outside of marriage but married people having sex were considered to be fornicating too. It's pretty crazy :shock:

ETA i think its spelled pornea, also, masturbation is included in fornication too.

I'm not saying to teach kids to rush out and have sex but I'm not okay teaching them sex is shame either.

Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Teaching anyone that sex in marriage is shameful is going against what God teaches. There is no shame in sex within marriage. The husband and wife are placed no limits on their sex lives. God created sex! And he said it marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled

edited for clarity