So what if a coutrship doesn't work out

[annalena]

I mean, it happens. or engagements are ended.

how are they to get back that piece of their heart? it's gone forever, isn't it?

[BexRani]

No... I wouldn't say that they have lost parts of their heart. I mean they will be heart broken for a time. But I believe God allows certain relationships to teach the guy or girl something. There is a gain not simply a loss. I am sure a broken engagement will always cause some pain. But once you find the right one you heal. That's what my opinion is anyways.... I know some married and soon to be married friends who I comforted during a breakup before they met the right guy

Edited for clarity

[Vex]

You aren't meant to allow yourself to feel emotion until you're engaged. If things break down after an engagement... well, I'm not sure.

[annalena]

. But I believe God allows certain relationships to teach the guy or girl something. There is a gain not simply a loss. I am sure a broken engagement will always cause some pain.

Well that's true for every premarital relationship then, isn't it ?

___________________

Do I need to add an "watch out: sarcasm" to my original post?! Just to clarify: Me- 27- not married- not a virgin- had several relationships- do not feel like I've lost any piece of my heart.

[Stickers]

I guess you deal with the heartbreak(giving away a piece of your heart) while being told it's all your fault. You weren't being godly enough and now you're being punished or "tested".

[Guest Anonymous]

I wish I could remember which family this was, but I can't. Hopefully someone who does remember will come by and fill in the blanks. Anyway, one of the daughters was courting, big post went up on the blog, families were mingling, everyone was just so happy! Something went awry and the courtship ended. They scrubbed the blog of all mention of it, refused to answer any questions and went on as if the whole thing never happened.

It was pretty interesting the way they dealt with it - by not dealing with it.

Another girl had several failed courtships and now I think she's travelling the world on Vision Forum's dime, since she's basically damaged goods at this point.

[BexRani]

You aren't meant to allow yourself to feel emotion until you're engaged. If things break down after an engagement... well, I'm not sure.

This is not what I believe or practiced. I was emotionally attached to my boyfriend by 6 months of courting and he was emotionally attached to me! We were engaged a year and a half after we started courting. And we were very attached by then! A year and a half later we got married.

Now I guess I am lucky.... My first and only boyfriend was Mr Right

[annalena]

This is not what I believe or practiced. I was emotionally attached to my boyfriend by 6 months of courting and he was emotionally attached to me! We were engaged a year and a half after we started courting. And we were very attached by then! A year and a half later we got married.

Now I guess I am lucky.... My first and only boyfriend was Mr Right

Well, good for you. :) But was if things do not work out this way? Coutring or dating, there's no guarantee things work out. And this whole "giving pieces of your heart away" thing should apply to ether none or both, I thikn.

[BexRani]

I guess you deal with the heartbreak(giving away a piece of your heart) while being told it's all your fault. You weren't being godly enough and now you're being punished or "tested".

It is sad that some would teach this but I do not agree with it. It is never a punishment or a test.

[BexRani]

I don't think a girl or guy should just date anybody they can find. I waited by my own choice for a good man- I was blessed greatly for my patience. Not giving peices of your heart away is the incorrect label for what it should mean " avoiding getting hurt/ regret" date whoever and you might get hurt. No i suspect those who advocate keeping your heart were hurt... And badly. And want to spare their children the pain.

[annalena]

I don't think a girl or guy should just date anybody they can find. I waited by my own choice for a good man- I was blessed greatly for my patience. Not giving peices of your heart away is the incorrect label for what it should mean " avoiding getting hurt/ regret" date whoever and you might get hurt. .

But it still could just not work out, right? I mean, it always could.

[BexRani]

Yes, there is always the chance that it might not work out. I was lucky this never happened to me. My boyfriend and I did have a plan in case we realized it wasn't going to work out between us... I am so glad we did work out! But I have had a few friends go through failed relationships. You hurt, you heal and move on. The Lord really blessed my friends. They now have better guys and are happy.

[annalena]

Yes, there is always the chance that it might not work out. I was lucky this never happened to me. My boyfriend and I did have a plan in case we realized it wasn't going to work out between us... I am so glad we did work out!

so, just curious. what was that plan? a plane to make it work in case it didn't work?

[BexRani]

Our plan was to essentially pray about till we were both sure that ending our relationship was the right thing to do. We wanted to have a mutual consent that we both knew it was best to end it.... To part as friends and not enemies.

To be honest I have no idea if this would have worked. We cared about each other so much we promised to work out any differences between us long before we would consider breakup.

As a matter of fact there was a time a year after courting that we put this promise into action and worked out an issue. We have been together almost three years come December since we first met. (married this past summer)

[uber frau]

I wish I could remember which family this was, but I can't. Hopefully someone who does remember will come by and fill in the blanks. Anyway, one of the daughters was courting, big post went up on the blog, families were mingling, everyone was just so happy! Something went awry and the courtship ended. They scrubbed the blog of all mention of it, refustheyed to answer any questions and went on as if the whole thing never happened.

It was pretty interesting the way dealt with it - by not dealing with it.

Another girl had several failed courtships and now I think she's travelling the world on Vision Forum's dime, since she's basically damaged goods at this point.

It's happened a few times that I know of.

I think the second woman you're referring to is Sara Smith (Smythe?) who has had at least 2 failed courtships (one with Chris Maxwell). According to the goss on FJ, she had issues with letting go so the family of her second beau called in a favour from Bill Gothard and he enlisted her for service for IBLP. She seems way too spirited to ever have met with Steve Maxwell's approval. Despite swallowing IBLP's anti-female propoganda hook, line and sinker, she's spent a fair amount of time away from the umbrella of her father's authority, including 3 months on her own working in China.

There's also Tiffany MacDonald/Hector's first courtship, which was was one of the more snarkworthy examples. Her father posted a fairly fierce piece declaring that breaking a 'biblical' betrothal was akin to divorce (you know, that part of his history he doesn't want his plebs to know about?). The engagement went south (I don't know who broke it off, or why, but looking at his blogs she had a narrow escape with that one) and all traces that it had ever existed where expunged from the MacDonald's blog.

THen there's Jocelyn's fairly brief attachment to her Love-Rod...

[Kitty]

Courtship is basically dating, only there's no kissing or any other touching and the girl's dad controls EVERYTHING. I don't see why fundies don't just realize this. How many courtships get broken off? I seriously don't get why fundies don't just admit that courtship is an authoritarian version of dating.

[BexRani]

See "courtship" is far too general of a phrase. I "courted" but it was nothing like you describe. We used the term to indicate that we were serious about each other. Not a flippant date.... But serious. My boyfriend and I directed things. Our parents gave us their blessings and at times their caution and advice. My mom was responsible for helping my boyfriend and I smooth out my feelings after our first disagreement.

I don't regret it. Happily married to him!

[haveapicniclife]

It's happened a few times that I know of.

I think the second woman you're referring to is Sara Smith (Smythe?) who has had at least 2 failed courtships (one with Chris Maxwell). According to the goss on FJ, she had issues with letting go so the family of her second beau called in a favour from Bill Gothard and he enlisted her for service for IBLP. She seems way too spirited to ever have met with Steve Maxwell's approval. Despite swallowing IBLP's anti-female propoganda hook, line and sinker, she's spent a fair amount of time away from the umbrella of her father's authority, including 3 months on her own working in China.

There's also Tiffany MacDonald/Hector's first courtship, which was was one of the more snarkworthy examples. Her father posted a fairly fierce piece declaring that breaking a 'biblical' betrothal was akin to divorce (you know, that part of his history he doesn't want his plebs to know about?). The engagement went south (I don't know who broke it off, or why, but looking at his blogs she had a narrow escape with that one) and all traces that it had ever existed where expunged from the MacDonald's blog.

THen there's Jocelyn's fairly brief attachment to her Love-Rod...

Jacqueline Bittner was another. I don't remember the exact details other than he was in the military, they were engaged, and she posted that "we are so excited to see where we'll be stationed next" (sorry, but including herself in that just cracks me up, he was the one going, not her). Then POOF it was all gone. Scrubbed completely off the internet.

[annalena]

Another girl had several failed courtships and now I think she's travelling the world on Vision Forum's dime, since she's basically damaged goods at this point.

What about the guy? Let me guess- for him it doesn't matter.

[dawbs]

Our plan was to essentially pray about till we were both sure that ending our relationship was the right thing to do. We wanted to have a mutual consent that we both knew it was best to end it.... To part as friends and not enemies.

To be honest I have no idea if this would have worked. We cared about each other so much we promised to work out any differences between us long before we would consider breakup.

As a matter of fact there was a time a year after courting that we put this promise into action and worked out an issue. We have been together almost three years come December since we first met. (married this past summer)

The bolded is all well and good in THEORY...I've seen that in courtships of friends of mine, in dating relationships of friends of mine, in dating relationships of mine...

But having that as a plan vs. having that WORK...well, lots of things are better in theory than practice.

I'd say 90% of the people who broke up/ended courtship/etc after agreeing to end it amicably failed at REALLY ending things amicably. (with about a 50/50 split between 'still tolerate e/o' and 'avoid e/o as much as possible).

It seems like this assumes that these are not flawed human beings with emotions and entanglements and feelings.

[MamaJunebug]

But there are no failures in courtship! Don't you-all remember? Steven Loomis asked Rev. Serven for permission to court Rebecca S. Rev. said no, Steven said kthx, and that was a success! Because ... it was!

RexBani, I'm not snarking on you in any way. You two are extremely lucky/blessed and I'm happy for you.

This "giving away pieces of one's heart" just goes back to the scarcity theory on which patriarchialism and complementarism are based. Granted, it's code for "stay virginal."

But at its core, it teaches young people that there is only so much love in the world, and only so much love in one's heart (being), and one must be stingy with love as with everything else: food, authority, time, etc.

OH, I well remember the adolescent years. Angst-or-hysteria, those years. (A couple of my Junior Junebugs might not be wholly out of that period! :D) But let's just say, for argument's sake, that keeping one's virginity until marriage is an agreed-upon tenet between teen and parents.

What's left to "give away"? Why, "pieces of one's heart." What are those, exactly? What does that metaphor really refer to?? Well ... feeling the attraction, then possibly the infatuation, then hopefullly the more realistic emotion of great affection for someone. And the feeling of caring about someone, wanting the best for him/her.

And then it turns out that the object of fondness isn't even aware of your existence. Or is, and feels the same about you, but grows out of it. And you're bereft. And woeful.

Here is where Big Mama and to an extent, even Big Daddy Junebug were there to tell us, "Look. This is normal. Have a piece of pie, have a cry, go out and toss a ball around, get your mind off it, get back to your studies."

Maybe part of the "don't give away pieces of your heart" thang is also parental laziness!!! Or at least, parental disinclination to walk their adolescent children through life's early ups and downs.

Because you know, the stingy attitude -- we're talking emotions, here, not physical consummation -- of "don't give away pieces of your heart" has another consequence. And I believe it's intended:

By only permitting oneself to love an approved person, not only has one bowed to the authority of the patriarch, but stunted one's emotional growth.

"I was a kid, and I loved my mommy and daddy. Then I was an adolescent, and I didn't love anybody 'til I loved the person M & D said was okay for me to love. Now somebody is crying because s/he got dumped by her/his 'date.' Well, sucks to be her/him. I can't imagine what s/he's going through. No, literally, I can't!"

Ok, maybe not "growth" but I can certainly see where a piece of the heart normally labeled "empathy or sympathy" might never develop!

(The rant is ended; go in peace.) :oops:

[BexRani]

I didnt experience this. My mom was adamant that I be careful but she was hurt badly in another relationship before she met my dad. But not what you are talking about.

[MamaJunebug]

I didnt experience this. My mom was adamant that I be careful but she was hurt badly in another relationship before she met my dad. But not what you are talking about.

Again, BexRani, nothing personal intended in my essay, and I remain very happy for you and your husband.

And to be clear, I'm certain that a lack of empathy does not automatically result when two people are happily matched on both their very first relationships.

However, when the norm in a community is to teach against the feeling of natural emotions, I think it can produce a general lack of sympathy and disregard for others' differing experiences.

[antifundie]

I don't think a girl or guy should just date anybody they can find. I waited by my own choice for a good man- I was blessed greatly for my patience. Not giving peices of your heart away is the incorrect label for what it should mean " avoiding getting hurt/ regret" date whoever and you might get hurt. No i suspect those who advocate keeping your heart were hurt... And badly. And want to spare their children the pain.

I think this attitude (God rewarded me for my patience!) is absolute crap. I'm happy your relationship worked out, BUT in my case, I dated a loser, and then had...fun (dating, hooking up) with guys while I was single, and then I met my (nearly) perfect husband. I am grateful that he's in my life, but he's a person, not a reward. Sure, in some sense I believe God/the universe brought us together, but it wasn't a REWARD for perfect behavior. No.

Gah, this "If I do A, B, and C, God will give me cookies!!" attitude just irks me no end. That's not how it works!!!!! And it's really really damaging to perpetuate that attitude. We can't be perfect, we can't do everything right...not that we shouldn't try to be healthy, to make good decisions (for us), but we can also learn from imperfect situations. Not that I think anybody should try to inflict pain upon themselves, but it's going to happen. Life is painful--you can't avoid it by sitting in your house crying about being lonely--OH and guess what? That's emotionally painful too. Rather than trying to avoid it all together, I think dealing with the reality of pain is a better option. The Bible never, ever says that we can avoid broken hearts. Our family, friends...they can break our hearts too.

God is not a cosmic gumball machine. It's very co-dependent (not to mention emotionally/spiritually dangerous!!!) to think that our behavior influences God.

I do actually believe God answers prayer. However, the answer is still up to him/her, and I don't think s/he looks back to see your "record" in deciding what to do.

ETA: In regard to first relationships working out--that's great if it does. That's how my parents are--high school sweethearts, married..uh, more than 30 years. However, if one of them (God forbid) died, the other would have a really really tough time--not just with living alone, but with navigating relationships. That's not a good or a bad thing--it just is. Point being, just because you avoid the pain of breakups now doesn't mean you'll avoid it forever. And, from personal experience, sometimes those bad breakups teach you really really amazing, important lessons.

[clibbyjo]

My 2 adult nieces have had 3 broken courtships between them. The one niece was with the first boy since she was 16. He came to all our family functions and I even took a picture of the two of them for an x-mas gift(This was before I knew the no touch rule and I kept asking them to move closer and they were all weird without telling me why but they did do it.) She dumped him when she met the next one at church and she told me herself he was "the one". He was a semi-worldly college kid and he played by her no touch rules for 2 years, but she found out he cheated on her or something with a college girl and she dumped him. He tried for months to get her back and she wasn't having it, She is currently single and still living and working at home.

The other niece, I think she just courted with him because he was the only one that asked. I could not stand this boy. He was only 20, but he looked and acted like he was at least 40. He was one of those "look at me, I know everything!" types and he also came to our family functions. I was glad when she dumped him. He also tried to get her back for months and she refused. A few months later he met and married someone else and now has a baby. They all still go to the same church.