Josiah and Lauren 15: The Drama Llama Rolls On

[princessmahina]

46 minutes ago, VanillaBean said:

What is SSA? I tried to google it and just got social security. Thanks!

I think in this context, it’s same sex attraction. 

[just_ordinary]

9 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm sure JB was worried Si would go the way of Joshly (online prostitutes) if he didn't marry and KNOW. Not that being married stopped Joshly from getting freaky on line. 

 

I also have my own opinions on Josiah, as I know many others do as well. I think Josiah was a high risk for taking off, I think he and Joy both were (Joy more so than Si, but if she left I think he would have gone with her) and that is why they were married off so fast. 

I disagree because I have a different assumption. Will put it under the spoiler because it’s obviously highly speculative and I could be completely off. 

Spoiler

I think Josiah might struggle/ have struggled or was assumed to struggle with a same sex attraction. That is just the vibe I got from him and Lauren. He seemed shell shocked and more as if they are good friends, and she seemed to treat the relationship and marriage as a project to prove they could have a great Christian marriage. My guess was and still is that they are good friends but I am not sure Josiah (or maybe even both) are truly romantically invested.

Also the whole set up, a family moving to make the relationship happen, feels weird.

If I am right this brings questions-

- does Lauren know?

- did she know before?

- if she knew, did she go into it because they are great friends and she sees it as a way of rescuing/helping him?

-or was she “sacrificed” by her parents?

-is this marriage a project for her to prove how godly she is?

- did both sets of parents set them up because maybe both experienced the same struggles?

Right now, it really feels as if Lauren tries hard to portrait them as the most godly and devoted. It always seems as if she has to prove something.

I hope I am wrong and they are just awkward because in their cult and their brainwashed minds a same sex attraction must be crushing.  

 

[Kelsey]

5 hours ago, princessmahina said:

I think in this context, it’s same sex attraction. 

Yeah I think fundies like to say that people aren't actually homosexual they just struggle with same sex attraction. Fundy logic confuses me.

[Charliemae]

5 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I disagree because I have a different assumption. Will put it under the spoiler because it’s obviously highly speculative and I could be completely off. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I think Josiah might struggle/ have struggled or was assumed to struggle with a same sex attraction. That is just the vibe I got from him and Lauren. He seemed shell shocked and more as if they are good friends, and she seemed to treat the relationship and marriage as a project to prove they could have a great Christian marriage. My guess was and still is that they are good friends but I am not sure Josiah (or maybe even both) are truly romantically invested.

Also the whole set up, a family moving to make the relationship happen, feels weird.

If I am right this brings questions-

- does Lauren know?

- did she know before?

- if she knew, did she go into it because they are great friends and she sees it as a way of rescuing/helping him?

-or was she “sacrificed” by her parents?

-is this marriage a project for her to prove how godly she is?

- did both sets of parents set them up because maybe both experienced the same struggles?

Right now, it really feels as if Lauren tries hard to portrait them as the most godly and devoted. It always seems as if she has to prove something.

I hope I am wrong and they are just awkward because in their cult and their brainwashed minds a same sex attraction must be crushing.  

 

People have been speculating about Josiah for years.  I think if you want to go there- there's every indication that Lauren had the same "struggles".  She gives off massive born-again vibes, and her family hints at a rebellious spirit or some nonsense.   My personal baseless speculation is they were paired up because they were both "reformed sinners".  It's all very sketchy and very sad.  

[theotherelise]

I don't get any vibes from the "ministry" website that this is predominantly for counseling young men who are not straight. It gives you sign up options right there on the site and really seems to encourage all men to sign up. I don't doubt that parents in IBLP would hear about this and push their "tempted" sons to join, but it does not appear to target men with "same sex attraction."

I can't get their website to work for me now, but this article from IBLP describes how it got started: https://iblp.org/news/turning-mundane-meaningful

And I'm not sure why they wouldn't have shared that Josiah met her dad through this accountability ministry if that is what had happened. The Swansons have been around the scene for a long time and Lauren and Josiah started "courting" about 7 months after she turned 18. So it easily could have been a situation where Josiah had an interest but waited until she was an adult for the getting to know you phase. He is three years older than her, so that would be a good thing.

I don't think we've been given any evidence to show that they didn't enter into the marriage of their own free will.

We like to put a lot of meaning into small things around here. An eye roll or extra trip to ALERT or odd exchange shared on camera become breadcrumbs of some discontent among the kidults. But the unfortunate truth is probably that Josiah is just as much of a diehard believer as his parents. 

Apparently I wasn't done yet...

We know that internet gossip sites read here. Speculating about these things could turn into a story yet there is absolutely no evidence to back it up. I just think we need to be careful sometimes. Especially because our own cultural programming in a heteronormative society has led us to speculate that men are probably not straight if they express interest in design or art or don't express interest in fixing cars or if they are soft-spoken or have certain mannerisms. 

I feel for any child in these belief systems who feels like they can't share their authentic selves. But I also think the speculation does nothing to help any kid/adult in the cult who is actually gay and could just reinforce rigid masculine and feminine traits.  

[freshlemonade]

I think CO mentioned Dwain counseling Josiah.  It actually gave the impression that they are very close and that Josiah has a father/son relationship with Dwain that seems almost closer than he and JB.  

[TeaELSee]

On 10/2/2019 at 1:48 PM, OyToTheVey said:

I always felt that they moved just so that Lauren can secure a Duggar. That's prestigious to them. They also didn't sell the other house so I think they can move back at any time. 

I believe the house they showed when Josiah proposed belongs to Dwain or his wife’s parents. The decor was SO old fashioned and looks nothing like the home they live in Arkansas.

 

[LacyMay]

9 hours ago, VanillaBean said:

What is SSA? I tried to google it and just got social security. Thanks!

I believe it's referring to Same Sex Attraction (their weird term for homosexuality because they believe it's a choice that can be prayed away) but I could be wrong.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

8 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I disagree because I have a different assumption. Will put it under the spoiler because it’s obviously highly speculative and I could be completely off. 

  Hide contents

I think Josiah might struggle/ have struggled or was assumed to struggle with a same sex attraction. That is just the vibe I got from him and Lauren. He seemed shell shocked and more as if they are good friends, and she seemed to treat the relationship and marriage as a project to prove they could have a great Christian marriage. My guess was and still is that they are good friends but I am not sure Josiah (or maybe even both) are truly romantically invested.

Also the whole set up, a family moving to make the relationship happen, feels weird.

If I am right this brings questions-

- does Lauren know?

- did she know before?

- if she knew, did she go into it because they are great friends and she sees it as a way of rescuing/helping him?

-or was she “sacrificed” by her parents?

-is this marriage a project for her to prove how godly she is?

- did both sets of parents set them up because maybe both experienced the same struggles?

Right now, it really feels as if Lauren tries hard to portrait them as the most godly and devoted. It always seems as if she has to prove something.

I hope I am wrong and they are just awkward because in their cult and their brainwashed minds a same sex attraction must be crushing.  

 

Actually, and that is what I meant by I have my own opinions of Si, I was being vague on purpose,  remember, not all prostitutes are female. 

That is why I've always thought Si was a flight risk, but I don't think he would have left alone. I've always thought Joy was the biggest flight risk and that is why she was married off so quickly and so young.  They had Si & Marjorie in that courtship when he was only 18, they needed him married and fast, I also think that failed relationship spurned on the Joy & Austin courtship. They needed 1 or both of them married sooner rather than later, to keep them from leaving the family cult. 

Sirens weird forced relationship furthers my belief that Si has an issue (in their world) with SSA. I wonder if he will become a bitter nasty man like TFDW? That would suck because he always seemed like such a sweet fun loving kid, but being in that shitty family won't allow for him to be himself.  ?

 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

On 10/2/2019 at 2:18 PM, LacyMay said:

Oh 100% there's commenting "I love your dress!" "Baby jesusheistheonlywaylovesthemall is so cute!" 

But there's also super inappropriate commenting "are you pregnant?" "Why aren't you pregnant?" "Why does baby jesusheistheonlywaylovesthemall look skinny?" 

You're killing me here!  (Seriously, every time I laugh, I start coughing! )

Edited October 4, 2019 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
riffle

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, freshlemonade said:

I think CO mentioned Dwain counseling Josiah.  It actually gave the impression that they are very close and that Josiah has a father/son relationship with Dwain that seems almost closer than he and JB.  

My sense (from watching the shows) is that Josiah and JB don't get along very well.  If that's the case, and Josiah found a family friend who he could relate to better and be supported by, then I'd say good for him.

Don't know what's going on with Josiah and Lauren.  I get strange vibes from them but don't think there's any clear cause, or that it's helpful, to speculate on their orientations.

[Peaches-n-Beans]

On 9/29/2019 at 4:45 AM, BernRul said:

On the subject of baby showers, where I'm from it's always one baby shower for the firstborn, and no more. It's seen as trashy to have more than one baby shower, because it's seen as begging for gifts that you don't need (because you should already have baby supplies by now, and if you don't buy your own). 

As for Lauren, yikes...I don't even know how to unpackage this one. I never liked her, but felt sorry for her after her miscarraige. Now I don't know what to think. Either she needs serious mental help or she's just an egomaniac milking her loss for attention. 

Poor, poor Joy. 

Definitely this! I've never heard of someone having a babyshower for number 2 unless 1) they didn't have one for the first baby for some reason (my mom lived overseas when pregnant with me, so she had a baby shower thrown by her friends when she was pregnant with my little sister) or 2) the pregnancy follows a huge age gap (had a friend who's mom had a baby 12 years after their youngest and they had one because they'd already thrown out all their baby stuff). 

I don't know much what to make of Lauren either, but this is drifting down the road of that news anchor who has the one surviving triplet and just had another baby. Where everything becomes about this lost child and you have to wonder how it effects the living children. I really do feel sorry for Lauren, especially given that 1) she was so young and seemingly emotionally immature (as she still seems tbh)  and 2) she's grown up in a cult where having babies is the end all be all for women so that had to make the loss especially devastating.  I hope she's getting the help she needs, and I want to believe it is help she needs not that she's milking her loss for attention. That said there's very little I'd put past anyone in the Duggar family. 

I just hope Jon truly DID want to go and wasn't obliged to due to family pressure or the show. However I wouldn't put it past TLC to say he has to show up for the episode. Just like I wouldn't put it past them to have an entire hour long special on her loss. 

[ModestisHottest]

On 10/4/2019 at 10:58 AM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Actually, and that is what I meant by I have my own opinions of Si, I was being vague on purpose,  remember, not all prostitutes are female. 

That is why I've always thought Si was a flight risk, but I don't think he would have left alone. I've always thought Joy was the biggest flight risk and that is why she was married off so quickly and so young.  They had Si & Marjorie in that courtship when he was only 18, they needed him married and fast, I also think that failed relationship spurned on the Joy & Austin courtship. They needed 1 or both of them married sooner rather than later, to keep them from leaving the family cult. 

Sirens weird forced relationship furthers my belief that Si has an issue (in their world) with SSA. I wonder if he will become a bitter nasty man like TFDW? That would suck because he always seemed like such a sweet fun loving kid, but being in that shitty family won't allow for him to be himself.  ?

 

A 100% honest question: What gave you flight risk vibes about Joy?  I've never noticed this about her.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 hours ago, ModestisHottest said:

A 100% honest question: What gave you flight risk vibes about Joy?  I've never noticed this about her.

When she was younger, she was not one of the older girls, and not one of the younger girls, she was an all out tomboy where gender roles are strictly set. She wasn't into make up and "womenly" duties. She seemed more into things that are "male oriented" at least in their cult, she was interested in politics. She was very authoritative, like Jessa, she had a domineering personality, she seemed at ease taking charge of situation and being in charge, and that isn't something women are allowed. But unlike Jessa she wasn't overly feminine.  She also seemed to not buy into the BS her parents her selling them, she even said so at Joe's wedding that it was Joe, that convicted her that their parents faith was the right path, she was ready to find her own path, and other siblings stopped her.  She was also the 1st sibling given to a sister mom, she didn't have the connection to her parents the older siblings had. 

She didn't have a built in sibling buddy like her other sibligns did, There are 19 kids so one of them was going to be the odd one out, 10 boys and 9 girls so one of the girls was going to be the extra one, and it was her, and because of her position in the birth order she was it. 

Not sure what it is but I do think it is her placement in the family, not having a close sister and her personality that made her seem to me like she was just over it.  I also think her and Si had personalities that don't adhere to the cult , they needed extra enforcement to keep them in the cult, and if they had been left unmarried for too long, they would have left the cult to live a more mainstream life. This is all just my opinion, don't think Joy will leave anymore, I think being given to Austin, has really cemented her in the koolaid lifestyle and I now think she is one most ingrained in the cult of all the adult kids with the exception of Jana and Joe. 

 

[ModestisHottest]

Thanks, @allthegoodnamesrgone. This is super interesting. I had totally forgotten about how much she used to like all of the stereotypical “boy stuff!”

[Bad Wolf]

I'm just catching up with the Handmaid's Tale. June was in the hospital talking to a young girl who had just started her period. She talked about getting married and having babies. That's all she knew about. Sometimes that show is right on fundie target. *shudder*

[SassyPants]

While I agree about Joy and really questioned marriage and motherhood for her at the time those both occurred, I think Joy and Austin are well matched, and they seem really happy. She also seems to enjoy Gideon. They seem like a happy little family. Can you imagine Jinger and Jeremy living in a camper? 

[nausicaa]

I will say that in their social circle there are rigid gender roles and the clues people here are using to suggest that he may be gay are definitely used by people in Si's peer group to label someone as gay or effeminate. 

So I definitely think Jim Bob and others noticed Si's way of speaking, his lack of interest in dirty work, and his mannerisms. And while FJers understand that those things don't necessarily make someone gay, I suspect the khaki and polo shirt crowd aren't quite as open minded. 

Perception becomes reality. So Jim Bob may still have wanted Si married off right away because of nothing more than what we have also observed of his demeanor and Jim Bob wanting to silence any "talk." 

[jillsdopplerofdoom]

I just read the episode description for episode 1 of Counting On and it looks like Lauren is the first baby announcement of the series. Really annoys me that she was the last of the girls to announce publicly (apart from Abbie) and yet she is the first one to be featured on the show. It feels like the show is becoming all about Lauren. 

[VanillaBean]

On 10/4/2019 at 12:04 AM, princessmahina said:

I think in this context, it’s same sex attraction. 

Thank you!

[JanasTattooParlor]

4 hours ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

I just read the episode description for episode 1 of Counting On and it looks like Lauren is the first baby announcement of the series. Really annoys me that she was the last of the girls to announce publicly (apart from Abbie) and yet she is the first one to be featured on the show. It feels like the show is becoming all about Lauren. 

She probably announced the second the pee stick dried. Gotta move fast when you never know who could also be pregnant at the same time as you. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 10/6/2019 at 11:05 AM, SassyPants said:

While I agree about Joy and really questioned marriage and motherhood for her at the time those both occurred, I think Joy and Austin are well matched, and they seem really happy. She also seems to enjoy Gideon. They seem like a happy little family. Can you imagine Jinger and Jeremy living in a camper? 

I agree, I also think Joy & Austin are well matched, they both seem very at ease with each other and both seem to be very dotting of Gideon, he's a very happy little guy around both parents so that tells me he is loved and well cared for. 

Jinger would have been as miserable in the RV as Joy would have been had she married Jeremy.  Joy would have a hard time being content sitting around posing for pictures, and being pretty and pretentious all day long, but Jinger seems to be thriving doing exactly that. Joy can be a pretty package when need be, but she also isn't afraid to get dirty, isn't afraid of living rough and isn't afraid of a little hard work, which is a strange trait for any duggarly male or female.  

[Iamtheway]

14 hours ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

I just read the episode description for episode 1 of Counting On and it looks like Lauren is the first baby announcement of the series. Really annoys me that she was the last of the girls to announce publicly (apart from Abbie) and yet she is the first one to be featured on the show. It feels like the show is becoming all about Lauren. 

Are you sure it’s the announcement for this baby? They are so far behind real life I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the one for Asa. Or did they already show that?

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, Iamtheway said:

Are you sure it’s the announcement for this baby? They are so far behind real life I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the one for Asa. Or did they already show that?

I don’t think any network would be so crass as to center an opening show on a pregnancy that ended in an miscarriage, particularly when the couple in question is expecting again and due to deliver rather shortly. 

[Kelsey]

They already showed Asa's announcement.