Woman forced to give birth in dirty jail cell and without assistance

[laPapessaGiovanna]

2 hours ago, Jody said:

You are again avoiding discussing the point that I intimated the baby wasn’t worthy of care. I have told you in no uncertain ferms that that is not true. Where in my original post I would have said that, or implied that is something you can not answer. And you will not apologize. That’s BS.

Reread that piece of callous inhumanity of your first post and try to comprehend what shit you wrote.

The very first paragraph is a collection of excuses for why she was treated like a shit stain. Victim blaming galore. Read it.

23 hours ago, Jody said:

She was treated for being a drug addict. She had to take methadone for withdrawal (btw, she was in jail for violence of some sort) and that can trigger early labor. She had already faked labor before. 

At the beginning of second paragraph you mention in passing that the staff should have intervened earlier.

Six words to say nothing. What does that even mean? They should have given her the absorbent pad earlier? They should have had her visited? Earlier when? You don't say. Six nearly meaningless words, all your empathy for the whole situation is here because immediately after you are back at victim blaming.

Spoiler

The staff should have intervened earlier. The mother should have used birthcontrol, stayed off drugs, stayed the fuck away from committing violence and getting locked up in the first place. The mother brought herself into this situation. In prison, people are busy and things can go wrong. Stay the fuck out of prison.

This is all was in your first post. We (I wasn't the only one) dared to note that there are ZERO words in this post of empathy, compassion and consideration for anyone INCLUDED the baby. You wrote like a heartless bitch and if you aren't one you have yet to show it.

That's it, my explanation. Happy? No? Not my fucking business. As for your request for an apology, why the fuck should I apologize? For taking your words at face value? Forget it, you aren't owed one.

[LittleOwl]

Any woman on this planet, regardless of background,  status, wealth, location etc. should be entitled to a safe birth.  The prison has a duty of care to all of its staff and inmates, and they have seriously failed.  

[JustEnough]

2 hours ago, Curious said:

You seem to think that you can't be [happily] married and on drugs and/or methadone.  I think it shows a lot of hubris for you to make that decision for all people.

I'm on drugs, albeit legal narcotics, and I'm happily married.  Are there only certain kinds of drugs you can't be on and be married?  She was apparently at least trying to get clean since she was on methadone, though she could be on it for something other than weaning off illicit drugs.  I don't presume to know her situation in life.

Thank you thank you thank you 

I'm right there with you and tried multiple times to address this but couldn't word it clearly enough to be worth it. But yes all of this. 

[JustEnough]

1 hour ago, Jody said:

Comparing legal narcotics that you take responsibly (I hope you aren’t in pain often) to taking harddrugs like meth, heroin etc. is a bit too simple IMO. And no, if you’re on meth, I think you can not be happily married. I’ve seen quite enough relationships destroyed by harddrugs to say that, yes. If anyone has been on meth for the last year and still happily married, I would be interested to hear about how that dynamic works.

You don't even know what drug(s) she was taking and yet painted her and all other "harddrug" users with the same brush. 

You mention meth repeatedly in this post and yet unless I am very much mistaken meth is not in the class of drugs (opioids) which methadone treatment is used for. Therefore meth users have zero to do with this situation. 

Your distinction between heroin and legal (opioid in this case) drugs on the other hand is a false one. Heroin is an opioid, but it's not the only one with risk of addiction (that'd be all of them). Certainly opioids have different comparative potencies, but of course dose would be a factor in how they compared in this case as well. Also you're completely ignoring the fact that a LOT of people who are addicts are addicted to opioids that were originally (or still are or can be) prescribed by a physician. And even more are physically dependent on drugs even if they are legally obtained and taken as prescribed. Many, many such people can and do have happy marriages. It's not like some oddity so rare you'd have to scout out the whole world or the whole country to find examples. 

People who are dealing with addiction  don't look a certain way and the they don't have one certain life narrative. The can be various levels of functional in day to day situations and that level of functionality may or may not have anything to do with their current status of being physically dependent or addicted to drugs. 

The truth is you have no idea who she was before getting arrested, you have no idea who she is now, and you don't have any idea what led her to where she is. I see a ton of judgement and a ton of suppositions.

For someone who gets awfully damn upset that someone has, in your view, taken your words out of context (even though she's far from the only person to view it that way, despite being the only one you've singled out for a particularly vicious attack), you sure are ready to judge the woman in the news article, people on this site, and people in general, and not just on this thread either. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by JustEnough
Edited for clarity and because I forgot an important sentence

[AuntCloud]

So... if I was driving with no insurance and an expired licence, speeding and checking my texts, then ended up smashed against a fence, do I deserve medical treatment? Pain management? After all, if I wasn’t acting stupidly I wouldn’t get hurt, right?

looking forward to my first downvote. 

[Jody]

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Reread that piece of callous inhumanity of your first post and try to comprehend what shit you wrote.

The very first paragraph is a collection of excuses for why she was treated like a shit stain. Victim blaming galore. Read it.

At the beginning of second paragraph you mention in passing that the staff should have intervened earlier.

Six words to say nothing. What does that even mean? They should have given her the absorbent pad earlier? They should have had her visited? Earlier when? You don't say. Six nearly meaningless words, all your empathy for the whole situation is here because immediately after you are back at victim blaming.

  Reveal hidden contents

The staff should have intervened earlier. The mother should have used birthcontrol, stayed off drugs, stayed the fuck away from committing violence and getting locked up in the first place. The mother brought herself into this situation. In prison, people are busy and things can go wrong. Stay the fuck out of prison.

This is all was in your first post. We (I wasn't the only one) dared to note that there are ZERO words in this post of empathy, compassion and consideration for anyone INCLUDED the baby. You wrote like a heartless bitch and if you aren't one you have yet to show it.

That's it, my explanation. Happy? No? Not my fucking business. As for your request for an apology, why the fuck should I apologize? For taking your words at face value? Forget it, you aren't owed one.

BS. I said she needed help and that the staff should have geven it to her. It’s not my problem that you are unable to comprehend the meaning of words. Saying the staff should have intervened earlier is not being a heartless bitch. It is funny - youmust have been to school in America to be this dumb - that you have been unable to both rad and comprehend the rest of my posts, specifically the one where I said that I hope the baby grows up happy, healthy and with loving parents. If that still says to you that I’m a could hearted bitch, you’re not just the product of the American school system, you go out of your way to be a dumb cunt.

[Jody]

59 minutes ago, JustEnough said:

You don't even know what drug(s) she was taking and yet painted her and all other "harddrug" users with the same brush. 

You mention meth repeatedly in this post and yet unless I am very much mistaken meth is not in the class of drugs (opioids) which methadone treatment is used for. Therefore meth users have zero to do with this situation. 

Your distinction between heroin and legal (opioid in this case) drugs on the other hand is a false one. Heroin is an opioid, but it's not the only one with risk of addiction (that'd be all of them). Certainly opioids have different comparative potencies, but of course dose would be a factor in how they compared in this case as well. Also you're completely ignoring the fact that a LOT of people who are addicts are addicted to opioids that were originally (or still are or can be) prescribed by a physician. And even more are physically dependent on drugs even if they are legally obtained and taken as prescribed. Many, many such people can and do have happy marriages. It's not like some oddity so rare you'd have to scout out the whole world or the whole country to find examples. 

People who are dealing with addiction  don't look a certain way and the they don't have one certain life narrative. The can be various levels of functional in day to day situations and that level of functionality may or may not have anything to do with their current status of being physically dependent or addicted to drugs. 

The truth is you have no idea who she was before getting arrested, you have no idea who she is now, and you don't have any idea what led her to where she is. I see a ton of judgement and a ton of suppositions.

For someone who gets awfully damn upset that someone has, in your view, taken your words out of context (even though she's far from the only person to view it that way, despite being the only one you've singled out for a particularly vicious attack), you sure are ready to judge the woman in the news article, people on this site, and people in general, and not just on this thread either. 

Sweetheart, there is no mention in my post of wanting to deny the woman help. You’re all getting butthurt over something I didn’t write. That’s typical FJ, but hey, I’m game for a good discussion.

There is, however, no goddamn motherfucking way in hell that I’m going to let anyone fucking gaslight me into thinking that I think an innocent baby is both unworthy of medical help or that I want the child to suffer or die. I find that so reprehesible, that I’ve called @laPapessaGiovanna out on that. She has finally responded with what is basically a complete dismissal of what I actually write. She says: well, yes you said that but it’s not important that you did. The sheer dumbness of her post is hilarious. 

Ready to judge? Yes. I have my opinion, which is bases on experience. I’ve been a lawyer since 2003. If you think that woman was put in jail completely without cause, that would explain a lot about your post. I don’t think she was innocent, but hey, I only read that she had admitted to what she’s incarcerated for. Generally everyone 99,99% start taking drugs as a choice. Very few people are chained to chairs, fed or injected opioids and are then released on the streets. People have choices and can make different choices than this woman did. 

I hope the woman gets help and stays out of jail, so that eventually, she can become a great parent (oh fucking hell what a coldhearted bitch I am). Until that time, I remain that the choices she’s made so far are not exactly going to earn her the parent of the year award.

1 hour ago, AuntCloud said:

So... if I was driving with no insurance and an expired licence, speeding and checking my texts, then ended up smashed against a fence, do I deserve medical treatment? Pain management? After all, if I wasn’t acting stupidly I wouldn’t get hurt, right?

looking forward to my first downvote. 

There you go sweetheart. And an extra hard laugh because you are also to dumb to read (as I’ve said countless times that the staff should have intervened) but want to follow the butthurt mindhive. While you’re at it, why don’t you also accuse me of being a racist transphobic hater ??????????

[nelliebelle1197]

15 minutes ago, Jody said:

 

There you go sweetheart. And an extra hard laugh because you are also to dumb to read (as I’ve said countless times that the staff should have intervened) but want to follow the butthurt mindhive. While you’re at it, why don’t you also accuse me of being a racist transphobic hater ??????????

Hmmm.... a lawyer who is using “harddrugs” as a single word and who calls people “to dumb”. Something is not adding up here.

 

[AuntCloud]

 

3 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Hmmm.... a lawyer who is using “harddrugs” as a single word and who calls people “to dumb”. Something is not adding up here.

 

Dang it, I was composing a scathing answer then your words of wisdom popped up. I’ll leave Miss Jody the Super Eloquent and Not At All Bitchy Lawyer Who Really Truly Cares About Babies to her own devices, then. 

[Blahblah]

@Jody you are digging holes for yourself. Your straw man arguments are doing you no favours. Throwing it out that people think the woman is innocent, or that she didn’t choose to take drugs, is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.  Nobody said that her choices are going to make her parent of the year.  Because nobody except you thinks it is relevant to this situation.

Own your words. You clearly victim blamed. You are the only one here who can’t (won’t) see that. You are the only one who brought up this woman’s history (incorrectly at that) as though it made a difference to what happened to her.

For someone claiming to be a lawyer, your construction of a coherent and cogent argument is severely lacking. And if you have to resort to name calling and disgusting personal attacks to bolster your argument, that’s pathetic.

Oh, and @laPapessaGiovanna will no doubt set you straight but you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[LittleOwl]

17 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Hmmm.... a lawyer who is using “harddrugs” as a single word and who calls people “to dumb”. Something is not adding up here.

Don't forget that we are not "Reading" and "unable to rad".  

 

@AuntCloud Awh - we both got our first downvotes.  Shall we celebrate? 

Edited September 3, 2019 by LittleOwl

[purjolok84]

So... if I was driving with no insurance and an expired licence, speeding and checking my texts, then ended up smashed against a fence, do I deserve medical treatment? Pain management? After all, if I wasn’t acting stupidly I wouldn’t get hurt, right?
looking forward to my first downvote. 

From what I'm taking in here, maybe not? Because you obviously wanted to get hurt and be poor, judging by your (in)actions. [emoji849]
@Jody In my mind, the whole idea of going to prison is because you've done something wrong. While you're in prison, there should be opportunities to improve wellbeing, get access to education and therapy and prepare to change for the better come parole if that's possible. Prison isn't mean to be great but that's the punishment. It's not further abuse and neglect from guards and government because prisoners deserve it. It certainly isn't standing by as a woman gives birth in a cell and slipping a pad in for protection. She could have died. The baby could have died. Or both.

And I'm somehow supposed to be okay with that because she's a scumbag in jail for passing checks and on a methadone program?

Don't think so.

Also you don't know anything about drug users, or their lives. Some of the best are prescription drug abusers. Doctor shoppers who chat openly about who they see to get what filled. These people are the ones who make it impossible for me to get my scripts for ADHD filled - they get their benzos and heart meds and I get turned away from several stores because they refuse to fill the meds I need to function. And I'm sure many of them are happily married. They would never even consider themselves 'junkies', as you so nicely put it.

[fraurosena]

When a poster is being deliberately confronting, obnoxious and constantly agitating and attacking, obfuscating their own words and opinions, and generally shit stirring, there is only one conclusion to take about them.

They are a needy troll, and not worthy of our attention. 

[Jody]

17 minutes ago, purjolok84 said:

From what I'm taking in here, maybe not? Because you obviously wanted to get hurt and be poor, judging by your (in)actions.
@Jody In my mind, the whole idea of going to prison is because you've done something wrong. While you're in prison, there should be opportunities to improve wellbeing, get access to education and therapy and prepare to change for the better come parole if that's possible. Prison isn't mean to be great but that's the punishment. It's not further abuse and neglect from guards and government because prisoners deserve it. It certainly isn't standing by as a woman gives birth in a cell and slipping a pad in for protection. She could have died. The baby could have died. Or both.

And I'm somehow supposed to be okay with that because she's a scumbag in jail for passing checks and on a methadone program?

Don't think so.

Also you don't know anything about drug users, or their lives. Some of the best are prescription drug abusers. Doctor shoppers who chat openly about who they see to get what filled. These people are the ones who make it impossible for me to get my scripts for ADHD filled - they get their benzos and heart meds and I get turned away from several stores because they refuse to fill the meds I need to function. And I'm sure many of them are happily married. They would never even consider themselves 'junkies', as you so nicely put it.
 

Good grief, i said she deserved help. How badly do you want to read something into my post that isn’t there?

15 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

When a poster is being deliberately confronting, obnoxious and constantly agitating and attacking, obfuscating their own words and opinions, and generally shit stirring, there is only one conclusion to take about them.

They are a needy troll, and not worthy of our attention. 

What have I obfuscated when I said the staff should have intervened earlier? I have not been shit stirring, I suggest you look at the BS @laPapessaGiovanna wrote about me wanting a baby to die. Seriously, you call that normal? If anyone is exhibiting classic trollish behaviour, it’s her. 

I am sorry that you are too dumb to read. I really feel for you.

[AuntCloud]

@LittleOwl a celebration is in order!

I suggest we create a cocktail for the occasion, made with vodka, gin, blue curaçao and green bile. We can name it Troll on the Bridge. 

[Jody]

53 minutes ago, LittleOwl said:

Don't forget that we are not "Reading" and "unable to rad".  

 

@AuntCloud Awh - we both got our first downvotes.  Shall we celebrate? 

Yup, bc automatic spelling control that fucks up your words (it’s set to Dutch) and simply not being able to understand the sentence: “the staff should have intervened earlier” are the same. Good grief you are dumb.

57 minutes ago, AuntCloud said:

 

Dang it, I was composing a scathing answer then your words of wisdom popped up. I’ll leave Miss Jody the Super Eloquent and Not At All Bitchy Lawyer Who Really Truly Cares About Babies to her own devices, then. 

Harddrugs is a Dutch spelling, but hey, be a spelling nazi, fits with you being unable to understand the sentence: “the staff should have intervened earlier”. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Blahblah
Removed text that was posted in a language other than English.

[LittleOwl]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:28 AM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

"Ms. Sanchez was in the medical unit and under the care of Denver health medical professionals at the time she gave birth," Serna said. "To make sure nothing like this happens again, the Denver Sheriff Department has changed its policies to ensure that pregnant inmates who are in any stage of labor are now transported immediately to the hospital."

(my bold)

I do hope that what this poor woman has been through, at least will help standards to improve for those who come after.  It's such a tragedy that someone had to suffer first for things to change.... 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

10 minutes ago, LittleOwl said:

It's such a tragedy that someone had to suffer first for things to change.... 

It sounds like she isn't the first to suffer. I was reading a report from a Denver television station, and it includes the full text of the lawsuit Ms. Sanchez's lawyer filed. I'm not a lawyer, but I did work my way down to about point #152 of 200 something points.

Given the 6 or 7 multimillion dollar lawsuits that Denver has lost, (that are listed as proof of the ongoing problem with inmate treatment, and medical neglect), I would have thought that it would have been cheaper to just properly train the deputies and other personnel, and hire the supervisors that are needed. (All of which has been recommended after these lost lawsuits, including one from over 10 years ago.) How many people could be hired for those millions of dollars? (At least one of the lawsuits the city lost was over a death.)

I was also disturbed to read in the suit (and here, which is much shorter), that Ms. Sanchez suffered from a bacterial infection that put her at risk for premature delivery.

Quote

Sanchez was arrested and placed in jail July 14, 2018. She told officials she was eight months pregnant. She had a due date of Aug. 9. She was on legal methadone maintenance but was placed in a jail withdrawal process. A few days after being placed in the jail, Sanchez was examined and found to have a bacterial infection that the lawsuit says could lead to premature birth.

A nurse told her she needed to get immediate medical help if she started having early contractions or if her water broke. She did that, when, on July 31, she went into labor and her water broke. The baby was coming nine days premature. But immediate medical help was not provided. Rather, she was left to lay on a jail cot and deliver her own baby.

(my bold)

It sounds like the correction system in Denver is beyond broken. It makes me worry about how well the county jail in my county works; if corrections officers are properly supervised and trained, and if inmates' medical needs are taken seriously. 

[LittleOwl]

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?  I don't even have words... 

[Curious]

3 hours ago, JustEnough said:

And even more are physically dependent on drugs even if they are legally obtained and taken as prescribed.

Thank you for bringing this up.  I normally do because I am physically dependent on the meds I take, but I was tried and aghast when I first stumbled on this thread early this morning.

There is a ton of misinformation and misunderstanding about physical dependence and addiction and even some doctors don't fully understand the difference.  There has been much more information in the last few years, but it's still misunderstood by a lot of people.

I have arguments with my own friends about it because some of them thought (maybe still think for all I know) that I am addicted to my meds because I go through withdrawal if I don't take them (or have something similar on board).   I've been on a morphine derivate since 2005.  When I started on it, I was on 30mg once a day (it's extended release) and now I'm on 45mg once a day.   It tops out at something like 120mg once a day, so I have a lot of room to grow because your body also builds up a tolerance just like an addict and it takes more of the drug to get the same effect.

The reason it was changed from 30mg to 45mg was due to tolerance.  Honestly, I could probably use another bump, but the opioid crisis has made it difficult for even licensed pain management doctors to prescribe opiates for their patients.   I just take my breakthrough med more often because if you go over a certain mg there are a bunch more ridiculous hoops you and your dr. have to jump through and I'm not ready to do that right now.  I'm already scared my pain management doc is going to get fed up with all the bullshit he has to deal with and retire.  

I wasn't 100% sure what all methadone can be used for so I used my goggle tactics (tm) and looked it up.  Methadone, besides being used to wean people off heroin, it's most well known use,   is used to treat pain.   It is also considered an opiate.  It does not cause the high some people get with other opiates, but provides the same type of pain relief.

I do not get the high with the meds I'm on, nor on any other pain med I've ever been given including fentanyl.  As a result, it's very hard for me to fully understand addiction.  Just because I don't understand why addiction happens doesn't mean that I don't think it exists or that people who become addicted are somehow unworthy or "bad" people.

What I do understand is the feeling that you would do almost ANYTHING to make withdrawal symptoms go away.  It's very unpleasant and I don't withdraw as badly as an addict does.    If I were able to go off my meds, I would have to be weaned off just like an addict with all the stigma that entails.

I'd also have to be weaned off several other medications because so many drugs affect your brain chemistry and if you suddenly stop taking them you can short circuit your brain due to its dependence on the medication

[Longhairedheathen]

I hate these arguments because I fall on both sides.  In these case that jail  and the people needs to be held accountable. 

Having worked in a jail, mental health facility and hospital I think addiction chips away at people's humanity and drives they to do things they wouldn't normally do.  

Now I am just a phlebotomist so I am in and out or just assisting with the RN but for the short time I worked there I feel the handcuffing being labor and solitary confinement aren't adequate solutions but band-aids for those situations. At the same time you just don't have the man power, funding or resources to adequate care for people with crippling addiction. 

There a person who was uncuffed during labor and had try to do drugs before she gave birth , she tried to escape and got violent when she was brought back and recuffed.  

We had a woman who  was pretty far along and when she didn't like what the staff say or got in a fight with other inmates , she would try to self abort.  I feel addiction causes people to find tools of manipulation and sadly that was hers.  We didn't have the man power to have give her the attention for good coping methods.  It ended up she was on suicidal precaution and solitary confinement until transfer into a bigger facility.   

There needs to be a reform, if we focus on rehabilitation over resentencing we wouldn't have these tragic band-aids or cases. 

[Curious]

2 hours ago, Jody said:

BS. I said she needed help and that the staff should have geven it to her. It’s not my problem that you are unable to comprehend the meaning of words. Saying the staff should have intervened earlier is not being a heartless bitch. It is funny - youmust have been to school in America to be this dumb - that you have been unable to both rad and comprehend the rest of my posts, specifically the one where I said that I hope the baby grows up happy, healthy and with loving parents. If that still says to you that I’m a could hearted bitch, you’re not just the product of the American school system, you go out of your way to be a dumb cunt.

You don't get to say something, then say a bunch of things that negate that something and expect to get by with it on FJ.   That's not how we work.   If I say something dumb I expect people will call me out on it and then I either take my lumps or I prove why I'm right and they are wrong.

You negated your tepid defense by going on to blame the woman for the jail staff shirking their duty of care.

Should she have been pregnant and in jail?  Not ideally, but once she was there it was the jail staff's responsibility to make sure she got adequate medical care.   Being denied your freedom IS the punishment.  Jail staff doesn't get to decide that you are denied other basic rights.  

We don't know why she was on methadone, but she should have been receiving it while she was in jail.  Not giving her the required medication is a violation of her rights.  Not giving her food would be a violation of her rights.

The only people at fault for her giving birth in a dirty jail cell by herself is the jail staff.  Her actions before have NOTHING to do with her not getting adequate medical care.

She could have eaten a kitten on live television and she would STILL have the right to have medical personnel at the birth of her child.

[Curious]

2 hours ago, Jody said:

Generally everyone 99,99% start taking drugs as a choice.

This stat is pretty likely untrue, but I'm not going to try and qualify such a wide generalization.

What I will say is that people can start taking a drug by choice and become addicted to it when it is a LEGAL perscription.   I won't try to discuss why some people become addicted and others don't because I don't understand it.   I understand that some people get a "high" off drugs, but I don't understand what that feels like.  I don't undrestand how enticing that feeling might be to someone that has been in pain for many years and suddenly has relief.  I don't have the misfortune to know what it feels like to be physically dependent and lose my health insurance or doctor so now I'm in withdrawal through no fault of my own.

Since I do know what withdrawal feels like I DO understand why a person would do extreme things to make that feeling end.

I could say 99.9% of lawyers are assholes and I probably have a better shot at being correct that your stat from the Ken Alexander School of Statistics.

When one person you meet is an asshole they are probably an asshole.  When *everyone* you meet is an asshole, YOU might be the asshole.   Something to consider.

2 hours ago, Jody said:

(as I’ve said countless times that the staff should have intervened) 

The staff of FJ does not intervene unless rules have been broken.  No rules have been broken.    Just because you want something to be a rule doesn't mean it magically becomes one. @Destiny addressed this after your explination of the serial killer comment.

FJ does not hold the hands of its members.  You are expected, as an adult, to be able to deal with interpersonal disagreements on your own.   If I rule is broken or in some cases the line to being broken is being trod upon action is taken.

Until that happens no one is going to intervene because you are too dim to understand that you can make a statement and then fully negate that statement with your follow up.

2 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Hmmm.... a lawyer who is using “harddrugs” as a single word and who calls people “to dumb”. Something is not adding up here.

 

I will let this go because English is probably not her first language and it's hard for native English speakers to get things right because we have weird grammar rules and homonyms that I'm not sure other languages have.

I couldn't learn another language if my life depended on it, so I give props to people that have that ability.

Your point is taken, in spirit, though

[nelliebelle1197]

20 minutes ago, Curious said:

 

I will let this go because English is probably not her first language and it's hard for native English speakers to get things right because we have weird grammar rules and homonyms that I'm not sure other languages have.

I couldn't learn another language if my life depended on it, so I give props to people that have that ability.

Your point is taken, in spirit, though

I don’t know, C. I feel rather strongly that if someone is going to insult the intelligence of others they better be on it! 

[Curious]

1 hour ago, Jody said:

Good grief, i said she deserved help. How badly do you want to read something into my post that isn’t there?

What have I obfuscated when I said the staff should have intervened earlier? I have not been shit stirring, I suggest you look at the BS @laPapessaGiovanna wrote about me wanting a baby to die. Seriously, you call that normal? If anyone is exhibiting classic trollish behaviour, it’s her. 

I am sorry that you are too dumb to read. I really feel for you.

As someone that has seen many lawyers argue in court, I feel really sorry for any judges that have to deal with you if this is how you make your points in court.   I'd hate to think how you'd react to a judge overruling your objection. 

Yes, you said the staff should have intervened earlier (whatever that means.  You didn't give any specifics).  You THEN went on to say a whole paragraph of stuff that BLAMED the mother for giving birth unattended, including the wonderful excuse of "people in prison get busy."

When it's your job to monitor the medical well-being of prisoners, which is supposedly the unit she was housed on, it's your J O B to make sure that no one is giving birth unattended.   They don't even have the excuse of not realizing she was in labor because she didn't tell them.    They passed a chux through the damn door for her to lay on.

Her water broke.  That is a lot of fluid.  They didn't even pass her a change of clothes, FFS.

If you had stopped after that first sentence, no one would be handing you your ass right now, you didn't though.  You continued on and proceeded to victim blame the mother for her situation, which is what people are bristling at.

Being in jail = punishment for your actions of breaking the law.

Given birth unattended = violation of your basic rights

These are very simple concepts so I'm really surprised that as a lawyer you are having problems understanding what we are saying.