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Woman forced to give birth in dirty jail cell and without assistance


fraurosena

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7 hours ago, Jody said:

You compare and opinion on an internet forum about a druggie with the handeling of a case? Grasping, but ok. You might want to consider that as a lawyer, I could also be defending the prison ?, but if you wanted a brief from me, why didn’t you just ask. My fee is € 225,- plus taxes and office fees ???????

no seriously. I have a different opinion. I get why you think i’m victim blaming, i don’t quite agree. What i don’t accept is being accused of finding a baby unworthy of med assistance. BS. The end.

Well, the only thing I have to compare is how you are acting here.  I am pretty much the same in real life as I am on FJ and I find most of the people I know from the internet are the same way.   

Did you read my post that outlined all the things that were done and most importantly NOT done for the mother and baby once he was born?   You keep saying the mother had a responsibility and she did everything in her power to uphold that responsibility.   She tried many times over her labor to get help and no one was there for her.   One guard realized she was going to give birth, gloved up and stood OUTSIDE the doorway waiting for her to give birth.

Again, the punishment for her crime was the denial of her freedom, being in jail.  Everything else that happened to her was BEYOND that punishment and denial of both her and the baby's basic rights.

There is nothing bad about admitting you are wrong.  FJ is a very forgiving place and if you stop acting like a honey badger on crack I'm sure you could get along here.  As long as you dig in and double down on things you are going to have a rough ride.

7 hours ago, Jody said:

That was pretty dumb reading, bc I have referred to the staff at the prison. Not FJ.

I don't know what you are talking about here so you are going to have to clear it up for me before I can address it.

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11 hours ago, Jody said:

Yes dear, I meant you personally, bless your heart.

Perhaps you should join my class this week. We are doing basic reading comprehension with Henry and Mudge. Maybe the American school system can help you where the Dutch school system seems to have failed you. 

Edited by dairyfreelife
missed a word
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Having toddler tantrums and swearing fits because one's opinion is not shared, or a singular point of (imaginary) contention is not validated, is not the result of education, or lack thereof.

That type of behavior is simply a manifestation of one's character.

 

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5 hours ago, Curious said:

if you stop acting like a honey badger on crack

44 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Having toddler tantrums and swearing fits because one's opinion is not shared, or a singular point of (imaginary) contention is not validated, is not the result of education, or lack thereof.

That type of behavior is simply a manifestation of one's character.

 

I have the feeling that this particular

Spoiler


honey_badger_dont_care_funny_cartoon_pho

 

but I hope they clean up their act and start behaving like a reasonable member soon.

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11 hours ago, fraurosena said:

Having toddler tantrums and swearing fits because one's opinion is not shared, or a singular point of (imaginary) contention is not validated, is not the result of education, or lack thereof.

That type of behavior is simply a manifestation of one's character.

 

Well, i don’t take kindly to being accused of wanting a baby harmed or dead. Perhaps you do, idk.

13 hours ago, dairyfreelife said:

Perhaps you should join my class this week. We are doing basic reading comprehension with Henry and Mudge. Maybe the American school system can help you where the Dutch school system seems to have failed you. 

Perhaps you can explain why i wanted a baby to be harmed. Bc that’s what’s been said and i don’t take that BS. Read @laPapessaGiovanna wrote. See why i reacted. Oh right, reading comprehension.........

16 hours ago, Curious said:

Well, the only thing I have to compare is how you are acting here.  I am pretty much the same in real life as I am on FJ and I find most of the people I know from the internet are the same way.   

Did you read my post that outlined all the things that were done and most importantly NOT done for the mother and baby once he was born?   You keep saying the mother had a responsibility and she did everything in her power to uphold that responsibility.   She tried many times over her labor to get help and no one was there for her.   One guard realized she was going to give birth, gloved up and stood OUTSIDE the doorway waiting for her to give birth.

Again, the punishment for her crime was the denial of her freedom, being in jail.  Everything else that happened to her was BEYOND that punishment and denial of both her and the baby's basic rights.

There is nothing bad about admitting you are wrong.  FJ is a very forgiving place and if you stop acting like a honey badger on crack I'm sure you could get along here.  As long as you dig in and double down on things you are going to have a rough ride.

I don't know what you are talking about here so you are going to have to clear it up for me before I can address it.

Ok, here’s how it works. Go to my first post on this thread. Read what I wrote. If you read carefully, you’ll see that I mention the word “staff”. This refers to the prison staff, not the staff (if you even have it) at FJ. In my following posts, I use the same sentence, and every time, I am referring to the staff at the prison. So bitching to me about what I suapposedly want the staff at FJ to do for me, shows that you are apparently unable or unwilling the read. 

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11 minutes ago, Jody said:

Ok, here’s how it works. Go to my first post on this thread. Read what I wrote. If you read carefully, you’ll see that I mention the word “staff”. This refers to the prison staff, not the staff (if you even have it) at FJ. In my following posts, I use the same sentence, and every time, I am referring to the staff at the prison. So bitching to me about what I suapposedly want the staff at FJ to do for me, shows that you are apparently unable or unwilling the read. 

If you read my posts you will see where I said I may have misunderstood after rereading and apologized if that was the case.

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4 minutes ago, Curious said:

If you read my posts you will see where I said I may have misunderstood after rereading and apologized if that was the case.

Then why do you pretend not to understand what I mean? But hey, just keep saying that a woman who’s lost nine babies wants an innocent baby to die. That’s not trollish behaviour at all.

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1 minute ago, Jody said:

Then why do you pretend not to understand what I mean? But hey, just keep saying that a woman who’s lost nine babies wants an innocent baby to die. That’s not trollish behaviour at all.

I wasn't pretending.  I didn't realize that was what you were talking about when I posted.  It wasn't clear to me what you were referring to so rather than assuming, I asked you to clarify. Posts were going pretty fast the other day and I'm not perfect. 

I'm sorry for your losses.  People have explained over and over why you gave the impression of not caring what happened to the mother and thus the baby as well.  You are apparently well educated if you are a lawyer, so I don't understand why you are having trouble with the concept that you can say one thing and then say another thing that completely negates the first thing you said.

I understand what was said upset you.  You are unwilling to see things from the other side.  Instead of going off the rails about it, it would be better if you tried to understand what people are telling you, take it under advisement and move along.

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Ok I am going to weigh in here and I am someone who has 18 years of experience in this area. (in my country that is not USA)

On the surface this looks disgusting and it was handled extremely badly. Who ever was in charge deserved an arse kicking. for many reasons.

The media also like to leave out a lot of facts and paint staff as the bad guys, sometimes they are and sometimes they are not. In this case I do not know if they are or not.

To play devils advocate on behalf of the staff, All I can think off is that their personal safety was in jeopardy. Perhaps she was/is violent, perhaps she is HIV positive and spitting blood for example. There is a duty of care to her and her baby of course but please don't forget the staff want to get home to their families too.

The media will not report mitigating circumstances because that is not as explosive as the storyline they present.

Her case was handled extremely badly, staff, high in experience/rank, Correctional Officers and Nursing staff should have been dealing with and negotiating this situation, if indeed she had a history of being a non compliant inmate.

There is no dam excuse for this if she was a compliant inmate with a clean compliant history. Any dam nurse or officer even with no experience and just some common sense could have dealt with this situation safely. 

I am so glad that this (in the end) resulted in the baby being ok. 

Edited by AussieKrissy
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@AussieKrissy  If you look back in the thread @WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? posted several links to primary sources.  One of them was the complaint.  I did a bit of quoting and summarization in one of my posts.  I suggested you read the complaint.  You can skip the beginning parts and just start reading where they are laying out the facts.

I found the complaint horrifying.  For example, one of the guards realized she was going to actually give birth and rather than calling 911 for an ambulance that guard gloved up and then stood OUTSIDE the cell door waiting for her to give birth, alone in that cell.

They had a live feed video in her cell, they absolutely knew she was in labor and she was passing blood and her water broke.  They documented that in their records and still did nothing to help her.

It's an awful case and several heads deserve to roll for it.   This jail also has a bad history of medical neglect of inmates in their care (this is also outlined in the complaint)

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10 minutes ago, Curious said:

@AussieKrissy  If you look back in the thread @WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? posted several links to primary sources.  One of them was the complaint.  I did a bit of quoting and summarization in one of my posts.  I suggested you read the complaint.  You can skip the beginning parts and just start reading where they are laying out the facts.

I found the complaint horrifying.  For example, one of the guards realized she was going to actually give birth and rather than calling 911 for an ambulance that guard gloved up and then stood OUTSIDE the cell door waiting for her to give birth, alone in that cell.

They had a live feed video in her cell, they absolutely knew she was in labor and she was passing blood and her water broke.  They documented that in their records and still did nothing to help her.

It's an awful case and several heads deserve to roll for it.   This jail also has a bad history of medical neglect of inmates in their care (this is also outlined in the complaint)

I see your point, but does the complaint go into why they did not intervene? Out of curiosity did they offer any defense for their lack of action?

With the gloving up thing, that is standard procedure when having to deal with blood and bodily fluids. He or she should have escorted a nurse in (if safe to do so). To assist and verify her labour.

Edited to add,

If she was a difficult and manipulative inmate (and this I do not know) it may be a case of the boy who cries wolf.

This does not discount that, regardless because of the verified pregnancy, a duty of care should be to check every single time she does or does not cry wolf.

Edited by AussieKrissy
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I can play this game too. Quote where I said this. You say I wrote it then quote it.

1 hour ago, Jody said:

Perhaps you can explain why i wanted a baby to be harmed. Bc that’s what’s been said and i don’t take that BS. Read @laPapessaGiovanna wrote.

Or quote anyone who keeps saying this.

1 hour ago, Jody said:

But hey, just keep saying that a woman who’s lost nine babies wants an innocent baby to die.

Anyway now I got why you keep singling me out even if I am not the only one who said the same thing.

In another thread you were throwing a tantrum about a downvote and I was the helpmeet who moved that discussion in a thread in the Community Discussion forum. It's standard procedure for us, but apparently you can't let small things go.

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40 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

I see your point, but does the complaint go into why they did not intervene? Out of curiosity did they offer any defense for their lack of action?

With the gloving up thing, that is standard procedure when having to deal with blood and bodily fluids. He or she should have escorted a nurse in (if safe to do so). To assist and verify her labour.

Edited to add,

If she was a difficult and manipulative inmate (and this I do not know) it may be a case of the boy who cries wolf.

This does not discount that, regardless because of the verified pregnancy, a duty of care should be to check every single time she does or does not cry wolf.

The complaint goes into a lot of detail on what they knew, what they documented and what they didn't do (which was pretty much everything a person that has ever seen a baby born on tv would do without any medical knowledge)

About 15 days before she went into labor, she was examined and was 30% effaced and dilated 1-2 cm.   It says in her records after that exam she was in the early stages of labor.

She tried to get their attention again after her water broke, she was again examined and they documented that her water broke, she had blood in her underpants and they were wet and that she was having regular contractions.

At some point, one of the nurses told a guard to call a non-emergency van to transport her to the hospital rather than calling an ambulance.  The nurse was told that it would be a long time because bookings were starting and the nurse said that was fine.  They did end up calling an ambulance AFTER the baby was born.

My paraphrasing of the complaint is that they just didn't want to be bothered to deal with her.  There is no mention of her being uncooperative or a problem inmate, but her side probably wouldn't detail that.   From the video, she doesn't look like she's trying to cause an uproar.

I don't have a problem with them gloving up.  Naturally, they should do that for both their and the inmate's protection.  I do have a problem with them then standing right outside the door waiting for her to give birth and not doing anything including calling 911 for an ambulance.

The complaint is really damning and it contains lots of references to things that were recorded her in file.

They are lucky the baby is healthy because no one bothered to do any of the most basic care for him after he was born.   They couldn't even find clamps to cut the umbilical cord.  They left it until a fireman got there when the ambulance was called.   They didn't wrap the baby up, put a hat on him, clear the mucus from his mouth and nose, give him a vitamin k shot or eyedrops (knowing she had a bacterial infection and a UTI).

I used to work at a prosecutor's office and I understand the precautions guards and jail staff need to take so I normally don't have an issue, but this was obvious and clear medical neglect which is documented both on video and in her records. 

Sadly it's not this jails first rodeo either.  They have been sued a number of times for medical abuse and neglect.  They settled 2 cases that were ruled homicides when two different inmates died in their custody and after guards piled on them suffocating them, essentially.  There were more cases that involved varying levels of neglect that were settled as well.  It seems some of the cases went to trial, but the complaint didn't go into deep detail on every case they referenced.

 

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1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

I see your point, but does the complaint go into why they did not intervene? Out of curiosity did they offer any defense for their lack of action?

I'm curious (not @Curious ) to hear what the lawyers for Denver will say. I don't believe they have made much of a statement yet. Here are a few more highlights for folks who don't have time to wade through the complaint.

Quote

[This is a good starting point on a timeline.]

Early the next morning, July 31, 2018, Ms. Sanchez alerted Denver deputies (who in turn alerted Denver Health nurses) that she was in active labor. At approximately 5:00 a.m., Ms. Sanchez told the deputy who delivered her breakfast that she had been experiencing contractions that morning.

24. Ms. Sanchez spoke with Denver deputies and Denver Health nurses at least eight times that morning, informing them each time that she was experiencing contractions.

25. For the next 4-5 hours, Ms. Sanchez labored alone in her cell while Denver and Denver Health failed to provide medical care or transport her to a hospital.

Quote

[This is hours later. I'm sorry but I didn't catch how many hours later.]

Deputy Hart told Sergeant Garcia about Ms. Sanchez’s symptoms—including her report that her water had broken—and requested a non-emergent van run. Sergeant Garcia asked Deputy Hart if Ms. Sanchez had been seen by medical staff because he knew that if Ms. Sanchez’s water had broken, they needed to request an ambulance. Denver sheriff’s personnel knew what was obvious even to a layperson: that Ms. Sanchez’s water breaking was an extremely obvious sign that Ms. Sanchez needed to be taken emergently to the hospital by ambulance.

35. Despite this, Deputy Hart and Sergeant Garcia (and no Denver deputy or sergeant for that matter) took any action to ensure that an ambulance was called for Ms. Sanchez.

36. Instead, Sergeant Garcia ordered the non-emergent van run. Sergeant Garcia did not call for an ambulance despite knowing that “book-ins” had just begun at the jail, and that the logistics of jail operations dictated that book-ins would be completed before a non-emergent van run to the hospital would be made. Thus, Sergeant Garcia knew it would take at least an hour, and would likely take multiple hours, before Ms. Sanchez would be taken to the hospital.

The deputy and the sergeant knew that her water had broken, and their action was to schedule a van to take her to the hospital an hour to several hours later.

Quote

Despite the obvious urgency of the situation, Nurse Herch failed to do anything at all to assist Ms. Sanchez. Astoundingly, Nurse Herch responded that Ms. Sanchez was already scheduled to go to the hospital and, therefore, did not need any medical care. Deputy Wherry informed Nurse Herch that the van run would be on a non-emergent basis and that Ms. Sanchez was about to experience childbirth. Nurse Herch lackadaisically acknowledged that he was aware of this fact but told Deputy Wherry that Ms. Sanchez would simply have to wait for the non-emergent van run and for the booking process to end.

Quote

By 10:42 a.m., Ms. Sanchez was screaming in pain, and Nurse Herch was still at the nursing station. Frustrated with Nurse Herch’s slow response, Deputy Wherry sent Deputy Hart to get him. Nurse Herch was on the phone and told Deputy Hart not to bother him until he was off the phone.

These were just a few highlights of the ways the complaint says the personnel were abysmally slow to act. I understand that people working in a jail or a prison have a very difficult job with very difficult conditions, but if this complaint is right, Denver has a systemic problem of understaffing, little to no consequences for bad behavior by personnel, and a general disdain for inmates' human rights. I would like to hear their defense. 

ETA--Cross posted with @Curious

Edited by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
ETA and removing a redundant van
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1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

Ok I am going to weigh in here and I am someone who has 18 years of experience in this area. (in my country that is not USA)

Just to understand, with area you mean jail or healthcare or healthcare in prison?

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

The media also like to leave out a lot of facts and paint staff as the bad guys

This would work if you could bring up a single hypothetical occurrence that would justify staff behaviour. 

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

To play devils advocate on behalf of the staff, All I can think off is that their personal safety was in jeopardy. Perhaps she was/is violent

She was on methadone, if she was violent then she needed a slightly higher dose, if the dose was already the maximum allowed in her conditions then she needed a psychiatric evaluation to get proper therapy that fit her mental and physical conditions. When my patients (I work in a rehab facility for drug addicts) turn suddenly, inexplicably and excessively violent they earn a trip to the psychiatrist or to the local psychiatric ward. 

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

perhaps she is HIV positive

Plenty of people are hiv positive or hcv positive and somehow mysteriously they get proper healthcare /sarcasm. This pisses me off to no end, because it's simply not a reason to deny healthcare to anybody, it's so easy to wear a pair of gloves and a surgical mask to protect eyes and face from sprayed blood. And it plays at the hands of those who discriminate people who are hiv positive.  Not to name that if mom is hiv or hcv or hbv positive the moment of birth can be especially dangerous for baby, yet another reason to not deny healthcare. Really this would be the worst justification.

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

There is no dam excuse for this if she was a compliant inmate with a clean compliant history. Any dam nurse or officer even with no experience and just some common sense could have dealt with this situation safely. 

There is no damn excuse period. No ifs nor buts. She could have been Satan in person and they would have had a duty of care and the means to deliver that care.

Edited by laPapessaGiovanna
Grammar
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I'm Dutch, and in Dutch hard drugs can be spelled both harddrugs and hard drugs, but harddrugs is the more common spelling.

On the topic: Regardless of what someone did to land themselves in prison, I strongly believe that everyone deserves adequate care when needed. Just because someone's in prison doesn't mean they are are suddenly undeserving of care. 
 

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1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Anyway now I got why you keep singling me out even if I am not the only one who said the same thing.

I went back and looked after reading this.  Not only are you not the only person who said basically the same thing, you aren't even the first.  Both @WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? and @fraurosena commented before you.

I am tossing around a rule change because I don't like some of the behavior going on in this thread and others.  I've been hopped up on benedryl for the last few days trying to get a bad case of hives to heal so I haven't been in any shape to be making long lasting decisions that I might regret later.

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9 minutes ago, Curious said:

I went back and looked after reading this.  Not only are you not the only person who said basically the same thing, you aren't even the first.  Both @WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? and @fraurosena commented before you.

I haven't been as brave as @laPapessaGiovanna in addressing this directly. I did go back and look at my post, since I was the first to respond. I actually asked 2 questions. 

On 9/2/2019 at 1:18 AM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

And what about the newborn baby? Is his life automatically without value, because of his mom's problems? 

I didn't assume that @Jody considered the baby's life meaningless, I asked her what she meant. (A pointed way of asking, but still a question.) I got this back:

Quote

I said nothing about the baby being without value. That is an incredible sick fantasy in you mind. So fuck you and your third paragraph.

I guess I don't do well participating in trading insults, so I stuck to bringing up facts after that. I suppose that's why @laPapessaGiovanna took the brunt of the abusive language; because she didn't back down.

@Curious, Benadryl or no, I know thinking things over usually helps in my decision making. I hope your hives get better soon. 

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2 hours ago, Curious said:

The complaint goes into a lot of detail on what they knew, what they documented and what they didn't do (which was pretty much everything a person that has ever seen a baby born on tv would do without any medical knowledge)

About 15 days before she went into labor, she was examined and was 30% effaced and dilated 1-2 cm.   It says in her records after that exam she was in the early stages of labor.

She tried to get their attention again after her water broke, she was again examined and they documented that her water broke, she had blood in her underpants and they were wet and that she was having regular contractions.

At some point, one of the nurses told a guard to call a non-emergency van to transport her to the hospital rather than calling an ambulance.  The nurse was told that it would be a long time because bookings were starting and the nurse said that was fine.  They did end up calling an ambulance AFTER the baby was born.

My paraphrasing of the complaint is that they just didn't want to be bothered to deal with her.  There is no mention of her being uncooperative or a problem inmate, but her side probably wouldn't detail that.   From the video, she doesn't look like she's trying to cause an uproar.

I don't have a problem with them gloving up.  Naturally, they should do that for both their and the inmate's protection.  I do have a problem with them then standing right outside the door waiting for her to give birth and not doing anything including calling 911 for an ambulance.

The complaint is really damning and it contains lots of references to things that were recorded her in file.

They are lucky the baby is healthy because no one bothered to do any of the most basic care for him after he was born.   They couldn't even find clamps to cut the umbilical cord.  They left it until a fireman got there when the ambulance was called.   They didn't wrap the baby up, put a hat on him, clear the mucus from his mouth and nose, give him a vitamin k shot or eyedrops (knowing she had a bacterial infection and a UTI).

I used to work at a prosecutor's office and I understand the precautions guards and jail staff need to take so I normally don't have an issue, but this was obvious and clear medical neglect which is documented both on video and in her records. 

Sadly it's not this jails first rodeo either.  They have been sued a number of times for medical abuse and neglect.  They settled 2 cases that were ruled homicides when two different inmates died in their custody and after guards piled on them suffocating them, essentially.  There were more cases that involved varying levels of neglect that were settled as well.  It seems some of the cases went to trial, but the complaint didn't go into deep detail on every case they referenced.

 

Then I hope the jail bosses burn for this. It would never happen where I have worked let me tell you. 

How hard is it to escort someone to hospital, honestly it is a drag but someone always wants the overtime. I personally have been out to see two babies born. One was at double time and a half Xmas day. Happy days. 

By chance is this a private or state run jails? Out of pure curiosity? Are private better or worse in the USA. 

I hope the women gets a good amount and uses it to get back on her feet. 

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2 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Just to understand, with area you mean jail or healthcare or healthcare in prison?

This would work if you could bring up a single hypothetical occurrence that would justify staff behaviour. 

She was on methadone, if she was violent then she needed a slightly higher dose, if the dose was already the maximum allowed in her conditions then she needed a psychiatric evaluation to get proper therapy that fit her mental and physical conditions. When my patients (I work in a rehab facility for drug addicts) turn suddenly, inexplicably and excessively violent they earn a trip to the psychiatrist or to the local psychiatric ward. 

Plenty of people are hiv positive or hcv positive and somehow mysteriously they get proper healthcare /sarcasm. This pisses me off to no end, because it's simply not a reason to deny healthcare to anybody, it's so easy to wear a pair of gloves and a surgical mask to protect eyes and face from sprayed blood. And it plays at the hands of those who discriminate people who are hiv positive.  Not to name that if mom is hiv or hcv or hbv positive the moment of birth can be especially dangerous for baby, yet another reason to not deny healthcare. Really this would be the worst justification.

There is no damn excuse period. No ifs nor buts. She could have been Satan in person and they would have had a duty of care and the means to deliver that care.

I can see your point, everyone is entitled to help. Yes. 

The first rule of first aid is to take care of yourself first. 

I get that plenty of people have infectious diseases. I also believe that most of those people are not out there actively trying to infect other people with them. 

In the prison system they are. They are looking to hurt staff and other inmates. They will spit hiv infected blood. We have lost a staff member to aids after he was intentionally stabbed with a needle.

No officer I know discriminates against an infected person but you can bet the hell im gunna  be hesitant before walking in and wrestling with an inmate spitting blood. Face Shield or no face sheild. And let me tell you I have done the wrestle many times. 

I am a prison officer. I have dealt with compliant and non compliant inmates for 18 years. 

I don’t know how her case spun so out of control. No executive officer (and realistically that’s who would this would land on) would let this go so far. She would have been sent to hospital at the first sign. 

If she was non compliant we would have had medical on stand by until she was safe enough to deal with.  No officer is going to go in and wrestle with a pregnant women. 

My main point was to point out that the media doesn’t always tell both sides of the story. But maybe I am biased because this kind of stuff would be unheard of in my state. 

To many laws and to many staff who want to keep their jobs. If this happened in my state. Heads wouldroll. 

Just now, AussieKrissy said:

I can see your point, everyone is entitled to help. Yes. 

The first rule of first aid is to take care of yourself first. 

I get that plenty of people have infectious diseases. I also believe that most of those people are not out there actively trying to infect other people with them. 

In the prison system they are. They are looking to hurt staff and other inmates. They will spit hiv infected blood. We have lost a staff member to aids after he was intentionally stabbed with a needle.

No officer I know discriminates against an infected person but you can bet the hell im gunna  be hesitant before walking in and wrestling with an inmate spitting blood. Face Shield or no face sheild. And let me tell you I have done the wrestle many times. 

I am a prison officer. I have dealt with compliant and non compliant inmates for 18 years. 

I don’t know how her case spun so out of control. No executive officer (and realistically that’s who would this would land on) would let this go so far. She would have been sent to hospital at the first sign. 

If she was non compliant we would have had medical on stand by until she was safe enough to deal with.  No officer is going to go in and wrestle with a pregnant women. 

My main point was to point out that the media doesn’t always tell both sides of the story. But maybe I am biased because this kind of stuff would be unheard of in my state. 

To many laws and to many staff who want to keep their jobs. If this happened in my state. Heads wouldroll. 

I should have written in the prison system some could be actively trying to infect someone not a blanket statement that they all are 

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4 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I see your point, but does the complaint go into why they did not intervene? Out of curiosity did they offer any defense for their lack of action?

With the gloving up thing, that is standard procedure when having to deal with blood and bodily fluids. He or she should have escorted a nurse in (if safe to do so). To assist and verify her labour.

Edited to add,

If she was a difficult and manipulative inmate (and this I do not know) it may be a case of the boy who cries wolf.

This does not discount that, regardless because of the verified pregnancy, a duty of care should be to check every single time she does or does not cry wolf.

I must say I strongly disagree here. When the staff were aware the inmate was in active labor and about to give birth, manipulative behavior or even violence could be ruled out almost completely. Women about to have a child without medical help and pain relief have - and I believe if a generalization can be made about something, it’s about this - other things on their minds and issues to deal with on a physical and emotional level. Realistically, the woman couldn’t have been expected to overpower or attack staff members. 

Also, if (and that’s a big if) she was HIV positive and pregnant, arrangements should have been made very early on to ensure the safe delivery of her baby. In fact, that would make the prison wards’ behavior not better or more understandable for me but worse. 

 

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49 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

I can see your point, everyone is entitled to help. Yes. 

The first rule of first aid is to take care of yourself first. 

I get that plenty of people have infectious diseases. I also believe that most of those people are not out there actively trying to infect other people with them. 

In the prison system they are. They are looking to hurt staff and other inmates. They will spit hiv infected blood. We have lost a staff member to aids after he was intentionally stabbed with a needle.

No officer I know discriminates against an infected person but you can bet the hell im gunna  be hesitant before walking in and wrestling with an inmate spitting blood. Face Shield or no face sheild. And let me tell you I have done the wrestle many times. 

Seriously, nothing of this applies to the case being discussed. Have you seen the footage? That woman was writhing in pain trying to giving birth to her son and scared to death. Have you ever been in unmedicated labor? I have been and trust me not even Wonder Woman would be able to think about anything beyond the fog of pain, much less hurting anyone. Also had she been faking she would have deserved an Academy Award on the spot, for everything from the acting to the special effects of blood and waters and even the screaming baby /sarcasm.

After reading your posts and upon reflection I feel suddenly appreciative of what I have seen of my country's prison system (that until now I always regarded as not even third world level and badly in need of reform).

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

My main point was to point out that the media doesn’t always tell both sides of the story. 

Fair, but we aren't talking about a sensationalist article, there's a formal legal complaint filed with lots of sources and it paints a dire picture.

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On 9/2/2019 at 10:24 AM, laPapessaGiovanna said:

You implied that baby was not worth it too.

There, quote enough for you. And giving no medical care to a child that needs it will lead to death. 

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6 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I can play this game too. Quote where I said this. You say I wrote it then quote it.

Or quote anyone who keeps saying this.

Anyway now I got why you keep singling me out even if I am not the only one who said the same thing.

In another thread you were throwing a tantrum about a downvote and I was the helpmeet who moved that discussion in a thread in the Community Discussion forum. It's standard procedure for us, but apparently you can't let small things go.

I didn’t even know you were the helpmeet who removed my comment, I didn’t check that. You want to call grief over someone who downvotes my post about the  loss of my children a temper tantrum, you do that. I can assure you I was crying when I saw that that poster was expecting her fifth, but hey, what the fuck does it matter that I felt deeply hurt by the callousness of the voter. I’m just a cold hearted bitch.

Let’s shift this discussion to another victim: Brooke Skylar Richardson. 

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