Grandma Mary Died

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

I wonder if this will affect Jill's partnership with 3130 clothing?

<just trying to add a little levity>

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, OyToTheVey said:

I can't blame Amy tho. Mary was like her second mother. She didn't come from a home with a mom and dad and a million siblings. She came from a single mother household. Her grandma helped raise her. She wasn't there just for candy or a movie.

However, everyone grieves differently and this really shouldn't be aired publicly. She knows were Jill lives and should take it up in person.

Mary very likely helped (to an extent) to raise Jill and her siblings too though. She lived with the Duggars for a while and might have very likely provided a stabilizing presence in their lives. It was likely tougher for her to have deep individualized relationships with each of them the way she did with Amy, but not impossible. The Dills also lived with her for a few months after they returned to the states and had Sam as well, meaning Jill and her family were in close contact with her on a daily basis at that point. 

I fully understand Amy is grieving. She has every right to do so and to react in anyway she feels is right for her. If blasting Jill on Twitter is what felt right, then so be it. I just think people should remember Jill is likely grieving too and grieving looks different for everyone. I don’t think that was the best way to handle a family matter and at the end of the day they are still family. They’re going to have to deal with each other to some extent for the rest of their lives if they both want to stay involved with their family. Hopefully this doesn’t lead to any real issues between them or the rest of them, but if it does I hope it’s handled privately - there are minor kids involved who didn’t sign up for a public life and deserve some privacy. 

20 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Oh yes, in big families, when a beloved family member dies, and especially when $$ is involved (not say so in Gma Mary's case as I don't know if she's loaded or not) families can lose their damn minds and the in fighting starts to get real ugly.  Families will split over who is right, who is wrong, who got the most feelings hurt. Add to that it was the pa/matriarch who was still wielding a bit of control over those family members to get along and it can be a real shit show.  I speak of this only from my own personal experience, when DH's gma died several years ago.  We stayed the hell out of it because we knew how pissed off Gma would be at how everyone was behaving, but it was a big family, everyone loved her, and there was a lot of money to be distributed. 

Yeah, I’ve been kind of wondering how much of a unifying force Mary was in their family. Some families have no trouble staying close when the matriarch/patriarch dies, but others were really only held together by their presence. I’m really sorry that ended up happening to you family. That must have been horrible to deal with on top of your loss. 

12 minutes ago, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

I wonder if this will affect Jill's partnership with 3130 clothing?

<just trying to add a little levity>

Someone pointed that out on the comments for Amy’s tweet actually. Something about a smart businesswoman knowing who she does business with or something. If I were advising Amy I’d likely tell her to take some time to cool off before burning any bridges. Emotions can run high and stress can be overwhelming when you’re grieving - you want to be sure you’re making the decision best for you in the long term when it comes to family or business relationships. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by VelociRapture

[HerNameIsBuffy]

24 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Not his fan at all, but that was his mom who died. I am sure its a hard time for him. 

To paraphrase Dorothy Zbornak, ‘it doesn’t matter how old you are when you lose your parents.  You’re still an orphan.’

[feministxtian]

If I can inject my $0.02 here...

There's no right or wrong way to grieve. I found my father dead, my mother too. I'm sure that at some time I will also find my husband dead. I started grieving with each of them long before their actual death because I knew it would be happening, it was just a question of when. Anticipatory grief it's called. Its NOT rational. Its intense pain, anger, sadness, depression, anxiety, exhaustion, a mixture of some very confusing emotions. Now, I get to sit and wait...and see how long the radiation and chemo will keep him alive even with the horrendous side effects. I KNOW it's coming. I hate it. I feel an intense rage most of the time with no useful outlet.

So...however the Duggar family is grieving, including snips and snipes on social media, there's nothing "wrong" with it. Hopefully they will all get counseling to get through the confusing mixture of emotions that come with grief. IMO*** a sudden death is almost easier to deal with...you skip the anticipatory grief, the anger and rage at watching someone die. 

***IN MY OPINION ONLY. The months and years I watched my parents fade away and the weeks and months that I will watch my husband fade away will really fuck me up even worse than I am now. Please don't shit on me...this is SOLELY my opinion. 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

Oh look, someone got their feels hurt.

Spoiler

 

[AliceInFundyland]

....What about when you're estranged from your parent?

I suck at grief. I've been to exactly 3 funerals. I bury things.

I am permanently estranged from my father. I wonder,  in the back of my mind, what will happen when he goes?

And my mom? She's had several surgeries and a serious car accident in the last 5 years. I've been able to see her once in that time.

Once again I am astounded at how we shit on and judge people for how they do things. (Except Pickles. Her behavior in this matter is deplorable)

 

[luv2laugh]

I’ve received a lot of backlash here when I posted that I felt it was wrong for Jill to immediately put up a blog post the day of Grandma Mary’s death and monetize it. It’s simply my opinion. I don’t like the Duggars and so I tend to snark on them. I feel sorry for their grief but I feel the most sorry for Amy. Amy’s mother was single mom for a long time and her grandma was basically the second parent. The JB Duggar kids did not have Grandma Mary as a mother figure, in my opinion. 

Everyone has a right to their own opinion anyway. We can all agree to disagree but I’d rather snark and/or discuss the Duggars instead of poop on posters opinions constantly because they don’t share the same opinion and/or belief of someone else.

Edited June 13, 2019 by luv2laugh

[Cleopatra7]

I’ve been away from the Internet in general for the past week and a half and I’m only just catching up. I almost drowned in a swimming pool when I was six, and I remember it like it was yesterday. Even to this day, the smell of chlorinated pool water makes me anxious, and it’s why I’ve never been able to learn to swim, because I can’t voluntarily put my head underwater. I know that drowning is one of the major causes of accidental death for minors, but I would think this also might be the case for older people. If a senior citizen already has balance and mobility issues, a pool becomes a serious hazard.

Because of all the various LLCs and other pre existing business arrangements, I don’t think there is going to be drama about money or land, but there probably will be drama about everything else, as Amy’s tweet implies. One reason why people tend not to have huge families is because more siblings equals more drama. A death in the family can bring out the ugly side of people even if nothing tangible is at stake. Since Jimmy Lee said that he and Mary didn’t approve of the ATI lifestyle, I have to wonder how Deanna and Amy fit into this messy family equation, especially when Mary moved into the TTH to help out. 

[frugalitymom]

Local news is reporting that Deanna found Mary and called 911.  I can’t imagine how she is handling this. 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

I don’t understand being personally pissed or furious or whatever for how D listers handle he passing of one of their family members.  Why are you taking this so personally?

I thought about this and complied a complicated answer.  But really I can sum it up in one word.  Projection.

[nickelodeon]

Interesting the different ways that the cousins invoke religion in their public statements – focusing on heaven vs focusing on God soothing grief.

[luv2laugh]

12 minutes ago, frugalitymom said:

Local news is reporting that Deanna found Mary and called 911.  I can’t imagine how she is handling this. 

Ugh. I cannot imagine how much trauma she experienced witnessing her mother dead in the pool. I hope she gets counseling to process the trauma. 

This has to be very difficult on Deanna and Amy. Deanna has been through a horrifying traumatic experience. I hope JB won’t be a dick to them nor find a way to screw them over.

Edited June 13, 2019 by luv2laugh

[VelociRapture]

52 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

If I can inject my $0.02 here...

There's no right or wrong way to grieve. I found my father dead, my mother too. I'm sure that at some time I will also find my husband dead. I started grieving with each of them long before their actual death because I knew it would be happening, it was just a question of when. Anticipatory grief it's called. Its NOT rational. Its intense pain, anger, sadness, depression, anxiety, exhaustion, a mixture of some very confusing emotions. Now, I get to sit and wait...and see how long the radiation and chemo will keep him alive even with the horrendous side effects. I KNOW it's coming. I hate it. I feel an intense rage most of the time with no useful outlet.

So...however the Duggar family is grieving, including snips and snipes on social media, there's nothing "wrong" with it. Hopefully they will all get counseling to get through the confusing mixture of emotions that come with grief. IMO*** a sudden death is almost easier to deal with...you skip the anticipatory grief, the anger and rage at watching someone die. 

***IN MY OPINION ONLY. The months and years I watched my parents fade away and the weeks and months that I will watch my husband fade away will really fuck me up even worse than I am now. Please don't shit on me...this is SOLELY my opinion. 

You have every right to feel however you feel about your situations - it sounds like you’ve been through, and are currently going through, a lot! Like you said, grief is a different journey for everyone and that’s ok. I hope you and your husband are both doing ok. ❤️

[Georgiana]

A phrase I often hear when talking about difficult situations or triggers is "Anger is a mask".  Another phrase I really like is "Anger is a high".  It is both.  Anger is often a mask for other emotions that are harder to feel.  Anger is easier to feel than weakness and vulnerability.  It is easier to feel than powerlessness or insignificance.  It is much, much easier to feel angry at a family member than it is to grieve the loss of a family member.  Anger is also a high.  In that way, it can provide an emotional respite from other, more difficult emotions like grieving.  That's why it's so much easier for many of us to get angry when we are already experiencing negative emotions: because anger often feels better than those negative emotions, so we are more willing to jump to it.  And grief, which is often an overwhelming ocean with no relief in sight, can make anger seem very appealing.

So I understand why Amy may be lashing out at Jill now.  It's probably much easier for her to get angry at her cousin for not mourning Mary "correctly" than it is for her to deal with her incredible loss.

But I do think she is wrong, and likely eventually will offer Jill an apology.  Amy doesn't have any more right to tell Jill how to grieve than Jill has a right to tell Amy how to grieve.  Amy's connection with Mary was different from Jill's, likely stronger and deeper, but that does not invalidate Jill's connection to Mary nor does it give Amy ownership over grieving Mary.  

No one "owns" the right way to grieve a person.  Each human relationship is as unique as the two people it is between, and differences between our connections do not make them lesser or invalid.  Just different.  We all mourned my grandpa differently because we all had very different relationships with him.  I had a much different relationship with my grandfather than my younger cousins did for a myriad of reasons: some of them lived further away, they are 16-18 years younger than me, etc.  But that didn't make my mourning of my grandpa the "right" way to mourn him.  It didn't give me ownership over that, and it didn't give me the right to dictate to them how they should mourn.  I was devastated by the loss of my grandpa, but my youngest cousin was hardly bothered.  That's not wrong.  The kid was only 12 when my grandpa passed, he only saw my grandpa a couple times a year because his family lives further away, and my grandpa began declining when he was around 4.  It's natural that he didn't grieve like some of the older cousins, and because we accepted that, we were able to allow the younger cousins to provide much needed light and levity.  

It's just sad all around.  I hope they find a way to find comfort in each other and their different experiences rather than tearing each other down.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

44 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I’d rather snark and/or discuss the Duggars instead of poop on posters opinions constantly because they don’t share the same opinion and/or belief of someone else.

That’s fine, but as has been said countless times before this isn’t a place where opinions are posted in a vacuum.  

If you post an opinion others will comment on it.  And if they don’t like it they will say that.  That’s how it works.

if you’d rather discuss the Duggars than do that, but you have complained repeatedly in countless threads about the “backlash” you get.  If you don’t like other people commenting on your opinions then don’t post them publicly.  

[feministxtian]

8 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I hope you and your husband are both doing ok. ❤️

He got accepted for treatment with Comprehensive Cancer Centers...feeling a lot more hopeful. He has a week of radiation left. Chemo is going to SUCK but look, if it beats this shit down, I'm all for it. It's been hard going with a walker and wheelchair and handicapped parking placard and him not being able to drive. I hate it all. But, I'll take what I can get right now. 

[luv2laugh]

10 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That’s fine, but as has been said countless times before this isn’t a place where opinions are posted in a vacuum.  

If you post an opinion others will comment on it.  And if they don’t like it they will say that.  That’s how it works.

if you’d rather discuss the Duggars than do that, but you have complained repeatedly in countless threads about the “backlash” you get.  If you don’t like other people commenting on your opinions then don’t post them publicly.  

I do get backlash here but I don’t regret sharing my opinions, as others have shared theirs. Evidently, the popular people on FJ don’t agree with me but I’ve accepted that and it doesn’t bother me. I continue to share as I feel and if people don’t like it, so be it. Usually, people simply agree to disagree instead of policing everyone’s opinions.

I’m here to discuss the tragic death of Grandma Mary and trying to stick to that. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by luv2laugh

[AliceInFundyland]

1 minute ago, luv2laugh said:

I do get backlash here but I don’t regret sharing my opinions as others have shared theirs. Evidently, the popular people on FJ don’t agree with me but I’ve accepted that and it doesn’t bother me. I continue to share as I feel and if people don’t like it, so be it.

I’m here to discuss the tragic death of Grandma Mary and trying to stick to that. 

What a self-centered thing to say. I took you off ignore because you've actually been a lot more reasonable in the last few months. But I think you need to go back on.

[Satan'sFortress]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

To paraphrase Dorothy Zbornak, ‘it doesn’t matter how old you are when you lose your parents.  You’re still an orphan.’

The picture of JB was the first one I've seen where he looks old.  I imagine the sentiment above has something to do with that. My mother was in her 60s when she lost her mom (only 16 when she lost her dad) and definitely expressed the orphan feeling even at that age.

I'm sorry to snark at this, but did JB dye his hair?  It looks almost black in that photo and I am really curious.  Do fundie men do that?

[grandmadugger]

32 minutes ago, frugalitymom said:

Local news is reporting that Deanna found Mary and called 911.  I can’t imagine how she is handling this. 

I can’t fathom what Deanna is going through. I hope she is getting help and that JB is being a good brother. They need each other more than JB needs to be a dick. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

18 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

He got accepted for treatment with Comprehensive Cancer Centers...feeling a lot more hopeful. He has a week of radiation left. Chemo is going to SUCK but look, if it beats this shit down, I'm all for it. It's been hard going with a walker and wheelchair and handicapped parking placard and him not being able to drive. I hate it all. But, I'll take what I can get right now. 

FWIW I think about you and your husband and family a lot - my heart breaks for what you’re going through.  Your strength is amazing.

[tabitha2]

JB maybe a dick but that was still his mother. Some respect is warranted in this case.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

The picture of JB was the first one I've seen where he looks old.  I imagine the sentiment above has something to do with that. My mother was in her 60s when she lost her mom (only 16 when she lost her dad) and definitely expressed the orphan feeling even at that age.

I'm sorry to snark at this, but did JB dye his hair?  It looks almost black in that photo and I am really curious.  Do fundie men do that?

I teared up as I read about your mom then laugh snorted at snarking on hair.

God, I love Fj.

[luv2laugh]

22 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

He got accepted for treatment with Comprehensive Cancer Centers...feeling a lot more hopeful. He has a week of radiation left. Chemo is going to SUCK but look, if it beats this shit down, I'm all for it. It's been hard going with a walker and wheelchair and handicapped parking placard and him not being able to drive. I hate it all. But, I'll take what I can get right now. 

Our family friend’s husband also has lung cancer and is going through chemo right now.

@feministxtian along with them, I think about you and your husband just about everyday. I pray for you and your husband and send warm, positive vibes.

Edited June 13, 2019 by luv2laugh

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

33 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Ugh. I cannot imagine how much trauma she experienced witnessing her mother dead in the pool. I hope she gets counseling to process the trauma. 

This has to be very difficult on Deanna and Amy. Deanna has been through a horrifying traumatic experience. I hope JB won’t be a dick to them nor find a way to screw them over.

Sadly this might be the way JB handles his grief, burring himself in money and doing things.  I know this was a major issue with DH's uncle, he was well to do, shady and business savvy(ish), Kind of like JB,  with a work ethic, minus the religion.  Several family members knew he was going to screw over everyone and keep the bulk of the estate for himself, which he did because no no else had the means to fight him, he was the executor of the estate, and when he died 2 years ago his wife got all the money leaving his 2 living sisters dependent on their kids to support them, while the wife blows the money on trips and tacky jewelry.  I do wonder if Mary succumbed to the patriarchy and made JB her executor or said screw that and left it to Deanna, since JB is just fine and she knew what he'd do to her in favor of his bank balance.  However, Amy and Deanna do have the advantage of selling out Boob to the highest bidder on the scoop of the BS cult lifestyle these people are living. The abuse and neglect those kids suffered at his egotistical hands and Michelle's mental illness.  That could make JB a little more generous to make sure that Deanna and Amy are cared for.