Grandma Mary Died

[Ais]

@feministxtian I am so sorry to hear about your husband, you have both already been through so much, I wish you both well. 

My grandmother died suddenly when I was 12, I thought it was the greatest injustice of life that I didn't get to say goodbye.  My mother died when I was 31. She had 2 brain tumours, the third round with cancer in 12 years. 

Over the 6 weeks between diagnosis and death I was with her while she was robbed of her eyesight and hearing on one side, her ability to stand/walk, her continence, her appetite, her personality, her dignity, her memories of my four younger siblings and many other things besides. I grieved every day as I watched her die in pieces.  When death came, it was a relief and release for us both. 

7 years on and my mother in law still lectures me because she doesn't think I grieved appropriately for my mother.  I can't make her understand that I was grieving long before she died. Anticipatory grief is a horrendously real thing. Not only is the grief real and all-consuming, but you also have to be fully functioning during that time to manage and provide care.

Looking back, everyone should be as lucky as my grandmother, who went to sleep in her own bed and simply never woke up.

I am sending you every ounce of strength I have from the other side of the world x

[NorthernGal]

1 hour ago, frugalitymom said:

Local news is reporting that Deanna found Mary and called 911.  I can’t imagine how she is handling this. 

Do you have a link?

[mollysmom]

1 hour ago, AliceInFundyland said:

....What about when you're estranged from your parent?

I suck at grief. I've been to exactly 3 funerals. I bury things.

I am permanently estranged from my father. I wonder,  in the back of my mind, what will happen when he goes?

And my mom? She's had several surgeries and a serious car accident in the last 5 years. I've been able to see her once in that time.

Once again I am astounded at how we shit on and judge people for how they do things. (Except Pickles. Her behavior in this matter is deplorable)

 

I've often wondered the same thing. I, too, am estranged from my parents. I know without a doubt that I will not be welcome at their funerals (which, if I'm being honest, I don't think I'd want to go given our "relationship") but I often wonder how I will feel when I hear that they are gone?! I haven't seen them in over 5 years but still....something I think about.

[frugalitymom]

https://5newsonline.com/2019/06/13/counting-on-grandmother-mary-duggar-dies-after-falling-into-pool/

[Bushes of Love]

36 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

The picture of JB was the first one I've seen where he looks old.  I imagine the sentiment above has something to do with that.

That’s what I was trying to get at. I feel awful for him.  

 

[luv2laugh]

Can executor(s) of the will do anything other than following exactly what it says? I’m not familiar with this and am curious.

If someone has written instructions in the will, does the executor simply follow those instructions?

Edited June 13, 2019 by luv2laugh

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 minute ago, luv2laugh said:

Can executor(s) of the will do anything other than following exactly what it says? I’m not familiar with this and am curious.

If someone has written instructions in the will, does the executor simply follow those instructions?

Not really, but it can depend on how well written the will was, in DH's grandmothers case it was very vague in that she left it up to Bob to do what he thought was best, SHE trusted him, because she wouldn't believe he would be so selfish, she was very VERY wrong.   Or at least this was the case about 13 years ago when she died. 

[The Mother Dust]

32 minutes ago, frugalitymom said:

https://5newsonline.com/2019/06/13/counting-on-grandmother-mary-duggar-dies-after-falling-into-pool/

Please understand that I am asking this with 0 sarcasm/snark. So is the consensus that she knocked herself unconscious during the fall first, and then drowned?   You hear this sort of accident happen with little kids all the time. I'm just struggling to understand how an adult could fall into a pool and not kick to the surface.  Unless she had never learned to swim.

Edited June 13, 2019 by The Mother Dust

[TheMustardCardigan]

Spoiler

Just saw this tweet from Amy on the Duggar Snark reddit. This feels directed at Jill, Jana, etc. who used emojis in their Grandma tributes in a way that made some feel uncomfortable here. I feel sad for Amy. She must feel kind of alone in a crowd in some ways, because I feel like her relationship with her grandmother was a little different than that of her cousins.

Sad to learn the circumstances of Grandma Mary's death. I live in Florida where there are a lot of backyard pools and have had a couple friends whose family members died in this way, I believe each of them had a heart attack or stroke near the pool and fell in. Breaks my heart.

Edited June 13, 2019 by TheMustardCardigan
forgot a few words

[VelociRapture]

12 minutes ago, TheMustardCardigan said:

  Hide contents

Just saw this tweet from Amy on the Duggar Snark reddit. This feels directed at Jill, Jana, etc. who used emojis in their Grandma tributes in a way that made some feel uncomfortable here. I feel sad for Amy. She must feel kind of alone in a crowd in some ways, because I feel like her relationship with her grandmother was a little different than that of her cousins.

Sad to learn the circumstances of Grandma Mary's death. I live in Florida where there are a lot of backyard pools and have had a couple friends whose family members died in this way, I believe each of them had a heart attack or stroke near the pool and fell in. Breaks my heart.

Yes, we’ve been talking about that tweet a bit. I didn’t even realize this could be directed at Jana too - every single criticism I’ve seen has been directed solely towards Jill, including the comments on Amy’s tweet. 

[SilverBeach]

1 hour ago, Ais said:

@feministxtian I am so sorry to hear about your husband, you have both already been through so much, I wish you both well. 

My grandmother died suddenly when I was 12, I thought it was the greatest injustice of life that I didn't get to say goodbye.  My mother died when I was 31. She had 2 brain tumours, the third round with cancer in 12 years. 

Over the 6 weeks between diagnosis and death I was with her while she was robbed of her eyesight and hearing on one side, her ability to stand/walk, her continence, her appetite, her personality, her dignity, her memories of my four younger siblings and many other things besides. I grieved every day as I watched her die in pieces.  When death came, it was a relief and release for us both. 

7 years on and my mother in law still lectures me because she doesn't think I grieved appropriately for my mother.  I can't make her understand that I was grieving long before she died. Anticipatory grief is a horrendously real thing. Not only is the grief real and all-consuming, but you also have to be fully functioning during that time to manage and provide care.

Looking back, everyone should be as lucky as my grandmother, who went to sleep in her own bed and simply never woke up.

I am sending you every ounce of strength I have from the other side of the world x

Very well said. This was also my experience, almost to the letter, with my mother's passing last year.  Some folks just never did understand that I could not handle a memorial service and didn't need one. Social convention didn't mean shit to me, as I had been grieving for a long while already and wasn't going to put on a dog and pony show for other people.  My heart goes out to you. 

[jillsdopplerofdoom]

I completely understand that Amy is grieving and she has every right to feel how she does. I do think the grief is causing an over reaction to some extent. I saw nothing wrong in what any of the Grand-Duggars wrote. Emojis are fine and none were used out of context or to cause offence. I know some people question Jill's post but I do think there was an inside joke between her and Gma. Amy doesn't have any right to tell people what to do in times of grief. Grief is a personal journey and everyone walks through it differently. I hope they can sort this before Monday. 

 

I do hope Jim Bob doesn't just take all of Mary's money etc for himself if this was not Mary's wishes. I agree he does look a bit different but this may be the grief. 

[Ais]

@SilverBeach and mine to you. I am of the opinion that there as many ways to grieve as there are relationships. Just because my way is different from someone else's does not mean my way is wrong. And it doesn't make their way wrong either. 

I wish you well, and I hope the good days outnumber the bad x

[SilverBeach]

2 minutes ago, Ais said:

@SilverBeach and mine to you. I am of the opinion that there as many ways to grieve as there are relationships. Just because my way is different from someone else's does not mean my way is wrong. And it doesn't make their way wrong either. 

I wish you well, and I hope the good days outnumber the bad x

Absolutely! I encourage people to do whatever they need to do to get through the day after a loss, no judging. The good days way outnumber the bad, I miss my mama but was so happy to see her suffering end. I can focus on myself now. I just had surgery that I had been putting off  (it was successful) and don't feel guilt about taking time for me. 

[Casserole]

1 hour ago, mollysmom said:

I've often wondered the same thing. I, too, am estranged from my parents. I know without a doubt that I will not be welcome at their funerals (which, if I'm being honest, I don't think I'd want to go given our "relationship") but I often wonder how I will feel when I hear that they are gone?! I haven't seen them in over 5 years but still....something I think about.

Grandparents are different than parents, but I was estranged from both of my dad's parents when they passed. My dad had an iffy relationship with them as they were the type to hold grudges about everything and "disowned him" multiple times, while eventually crawling back.

To summarize: When my mother was about 8 months pregnant with me, my dad's mother got pissed about something and picked up one of those large yard boulder rocks and tried to toss it at my mom's stomach (me.) Flash forward - When we tried to have a relationship later in my teens she eventually told me I was the "devil's child" and regularly called me a spawn of Satan. From then on, my dad still visited with her, but let me make my own decisions and I decided to cut her off and I'd stay home when he went. His father wasn't as bad, but enabled that bitch so I cut him off by association. 

My dad called me to tell me when they died. I said okay. He asked if I'd like the funeral arrangements, I said no. That was the end of the conversation. Some family members definitely think I'm a cold hearted bitch and will never speak to me again for not going, but honestly? I don't regret it. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

They’re going to have to deal with each other to some extent for the rest of their lives if they both want to stay involved with their family. Hopefully this doesn’t lead to any real issues between them or the rest of them, but if it does I hope it’s handled privately - there are minor kids involved who didn’t sign up for a public life and deserve some privacy

People say this all the time, but not necessarily.  I have a large family most of whom I haven’t seen in decades and in a family like theirs it’s super easy to never speak  even without an official falling out - it’s not like there are just the two of them.

as far as the kids, meh.  They have so many problems in that family their moms getting pissy with a cousin isn’t going to scar them even if known.  If that were the case there’d be very few functional people walking around.

this is one of the most normal things about them.  

[VelociRapture]

11 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

People say this all the time, but not necessarily.  I have a large family most of whom I haven’t seen in decades and in a family like theirs it’s super easy to never speak  even without an official falling out - it’s not like there are just the two of them.

as far as the kids, meh.  They have so many problems in that family their moms getting pissy with a cousin isn’t going to scar them even if known.  If that were the case there’d be very few functional people walking around.

this is one of the most normal things about them.  

I’m not just talking about interacting with each other directly though. You’re right that it’d be easy enough for them to avoid direct contact if they really wanted to. If they have a falling out, both still want contact with their family, and also don’t want to know anything about what the other is doing that can be much harder to manage though - and it could lead to a much larger rift with other family members. That was the case with my husband’s family and his maternal extended family. His immediate family wanted nothing to do with his maternal uncle or his family - for good reason - but other family members (mainly his aunt and grandparents) were incapable of respecting that. It led to a lot of arguing, a lot of pressure, unfair accusations, and eventually a rift that erupted between our branch of the family and the rest of them just months before my husband and I got married. It’s been over three years and his mother has recently started welcoming them back into her life, but we still have no contact with them and at this point want no contact. Neither do my husband’s brothers. It’s started to become a bit awkward at times since his mother keeps asking if she can send them photos of our daughter despite the fact that we’ve been extremely clear we aren’t comfortable with that - if they want access to our kid then they need to go through us directly. His brothers don’t have kids and aren’t being asked for photos, so we’re kind of on our own on this one. I think we’re going to have to just be extremely blunt soon about how she needs to stop pressuring us into a decision we’re clearly not comfortable with. I’m not looking forward to that. 

As for the kids, I meant all the minor kids in the family could be impacted if a massive falling out occurred and one or both of them were no longer in contact with each other or the extended family. I don’t think that’s very likely, but we also didn’t think we’d end up estranged from his maternal family either. So it’s a possibility.

That said, this is clearly all pure speculation. It’s possible they’ll have a permanent falling out, but it’s also entirely possible they’ll patch things up and move on like nothing happened.

[BlessaYourHeart]

4 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

....What about when you're estranged from your parent?

I suck at grief. I've been to exactly 3 funerals. I bury things.

I am permanently estranged from my father. I wonder,  in the back of my mind, what will happen when he goes?

And my mom? She's had several surgeries and a serious car accident in the last 5 years. I've been able to see her once in that time.

Once again I am astounded at how we shit on and judge people for how they do things. (Except Pickles. Her behavior in this matter is deplorable)

 

I was basically estranged from my dad when he died earlier this year. It was a surreal experience, I had all these emotions yet I felt so detached from the situation as I’m not really close to any of that side of my family (his family are a bit crazy). I have 2 half sisters but one is psychotic and the other is 12years older than me and lives in another country so I have no real contact with either. 

The grief weighed so heavy on me and I felt like no one could understand, no one else around me had actually been impacted from his death (he and my mum split up when I was still a foetus,  he was ex army and had bad ptsd so it was better for everyone) and I struggled with feeling like I shouldn’t be allowed to be grieving because we were estranged. I broke down when I seen the obituary and saw that all his stepchildren and his other 2 daughters were named but I wasn’t. That was when the anger came, I was just so angry that there was out pouring of sympathy from all these people for everyone but me and it was like I was watching everything happening around me without being involved - I felt like saying ‘hey I’ve lost my dad and I’m grieving  too’ 

I did go to the funeral and his wife gave me a big hug and said she was glad I came - he would have wanted it etc but I still felt so weird. 

It’s taken me until very recently to process everything and actually get to a point of acceptance without the what ifs and anger. 

My point is, you just never know how you’re going to react in that situation and I think it makes it harder when you don’t have the best relationship with the parent. No one expected my dad to die - he was in his 50’s, went on holiday in Europe and had a brain aneurism. It was a shock to my system. 

I hope when the time comes that you can find peace and deal with the rollercoaster of emotions that will follow - it’s hard because at the end of the day you still feel it because that person gave you life.  

[nst]

apparently Deanna found her in the pool

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/grandma-mary-duggars-cause-of-death-revealed/

[WarriorJane]

I'm not sure where people are getting this idea that Jim Bob is somehow going to get his hands on Mary's money and keep it all for himself.   Mary was not a naive woman,  she had been a real estate agent, owned property and had her own money.  I'm sure she was savvy enough to have had a will.  We don't even know if Jim Bob is the executor, but even if he is,  all that entails is carrying out the associated tasks of settling the estate.   It's appointing one person to be the contact, issue checks from the estate and be signatory to documents.   

Someone may have had an experience where a family member cheated their siblings, but I highly doubt there was an actual will involved, as no lawyer would draft one that was that vague.  Sometimes people write things down informally and call it their "will."  I doubt that Mary, with all her money and holdings and her giant family would be that lax.  

As much as Jim Bob is shady and self-serving,  I really don't see him trying to make a money grab.  For one thing, he doesn't need it,  and I believe he really does love his family, and would likely be inclined to want it divided equally.   

I would love it if Amy was appointed executrix!  It would show the granddaughters they are perfectly capable of having responsibility and taking charge. 

Sorry for the rant, it's just rather irksome when people pull things out of their ass and present them as facts.  

[Greendoor]

A sad and timely reminder as we enter the summer season.   Fence around the pool with a gate, that you use.  

So many drownings happen every year.

RIP Mary.

 

[JenniferJuniper]

3 hours ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

I I know some people question Jill's post but I do think there was an inside joke between her and Gma. Amy doesn't have any right to tell people what to do in times of grief. Grief is a personal journey and everyone walks through it differently. I hope they can sort this before Monday. 

Jill came across as totally immature to me, which is not surprising, considering Jill is totally immature (not her fault! Mostly).   Amy has every right to be annoyed and post what she wants about it.  I wouldn't bother, but she's upset.

As far as all this damaged cousin relationship stuff, I always thought Amy was more or less a TLC creation for 19 Kids.  I'm sure they hung a lot out when she and the oldest Duggars were little but I always found it hard to believe she had close relationships with them when they were older -  "in real life" that is. 

Cousins.  I have a lot of them.  Most of them I haven't seen in since my grandmothers died, except for Creepy Chris who I see on the train sometimes and another one who I occasionally see at Trader Joe's.  Sometimes we duck down aisles to avoid each other, sometimes we stop and say "hi".   I am in much closer contact to the cousins I've met through Ancestry who live thousands of miles away!  Tell me I'm not alone here?

  

[sableduck]

4 minutes ago, Greendoor said:

A sad and timely reminder as we enter the summer season.   Fence around the pool with a gate, that you use.  

So many drownings happen every year.

RIP Mary.

 

The majority of adult drownings(except those involving alcohol or diving into unsafe waters) are people who have a medical emergencies that render them unconscious while swimming alone.  I suspect this is what happened in her case, though I don’t know if they’ll have done an autopsy(it may be required to rule out foul play; our local medical examiner would have sent this for autopsy).

I also believe she was too business savvy to not have a rock solid will. Granted we don’t really know much about her, but we do know she was a smart businesswoman.

[SassyPants]

The public did not need to know about the circumstances surrounding GMM’s death. What a horrible way to pass, and poor Deanna. I hope these people all put their faith into action and treat each other very, very kindly. Ugliness in a public venue is really horrible, I’d imagine.

[Queen Of Hearts]

20 minutes ago, Greendoor said:

A sad and timely reminder as we enter the summer season.   Fence around the pool with a gate, that you use.  

So many drownings happen every year.

RIP Mary.

 

If Mary's house is the one I think it is, you can see pictures on Zillow and there is a fence around the pool but it connects to the house - so there is nothing to stop someone from walking out the back door and right into the pool.  With so many little kids in that family it seems like a disaster waiting to happen.  You see this layout frequently but I really wish people would put some kind of separation between their homes and pools - it would save so many lives of kids who wander outside without their parents realizing.  Not sure if it would have helped Mary or not but overall it just seems like a good idea.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Queen Of Hearts