Quiverfull Mom Expresses "Disgust" For 12-Year-Old Daughter

[Muffy]

jenny_islander said,

They treat their own kids like enemy prisoners out to climb the fence!

And when their kids turn their backs on Christianity entirely, they never look at their own endless picking, hitting, accusing, fulminating, shaming, lecturing, and blaming blaming blaming; they blame the kids for sin. Again.

You know what's interesting? Mrs. E talks out of both sides of her mouth. On the one hand, she claims to believe that all the "goodness" in her life has nothing to do with her - that it's all God.

On the other hand, she seems very quick to credit her own parenting methods and "godly child training" efforts for the good that is evident in her children's lives. Yet the "bad" that she thinks she sees in her kids never has anything to do with her weaknesses as a parent, unless it's that she hasn't "chastised" them enough. Instead, she's quick to place the blame on her children.

[Austin]

On both the "I am alone" & "character deficit" posts

:shock:

WTF???

This woman is way more than a little bit crazy.

[nuri]

Without the spanking, her method working towards a longer attention span for non-preferred tasks isn't all that out of the ordinary. But spanking for what is really normal development? Barbaric.

[ChickeyMonkey]

This. You can teach a two year old to count to 20 or higher, but the numbers will mean nothing to him. All he has learned is that there is value in repeating things you don't understand. It's best if a child learns the next cardinal number in the sequence when s/he has a need for it, ie when s/he can make sense out of a certain number of objects >2 and realizes there must be a name for that quantity.

My 2.5 year old just recently started to get the concept of 1 and 2. Of course, he holds up 4 fingers when he says 2 because it's hard for him to get his little fingers to make the "2" sign.

As to her expectations of children at different ages? Maybe if her kids were cartoon characters. :roll:

[Sola]

I predict that her daughter is run very fast and very far once she hits adulthood. I don't blame her either.

[Sola]

Now I'm getting even more suspicious about her.

According to this post; http://homeschoolblogger.com/mrse/433360/

So far in her blog I've established she has suffered with Bi Polar, borderline psychosis, arthritis and Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura. According to the above entry, she has also been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. With the exception of ITP, none of these magically disappear. Even with ITP, it can be cured but it needs treatment with drugs, blood transfusions, steroids and sometimes chemo. I've been there with that one, thankfully I didn't need chemo. Mine was treated with steroids and transfusions.

If this woman has had a spontaneous, miraculous cure of MS then why has the world not heard about it via medical journals? MS doesn't just go away.

I'm beginning to think attention seeking, maybe even Munchausens.

[Vex]

I've been reading back over Mrs. E's blog posts, and I literally have tears streaming down my face.

The way her mental illness effects her children breaks my heart. My grandmother was a paranoid schizophrenic who would do things like wake my mother and grandfather up at 2 in the morning so they could clean the house because she believed the Prime Minister was coming over. I know how hard that was on my mother, and to have the religious overtones to everything must make it a thousand times worse. Mania is a scary thing, and it honestly seems like she cycles through depression and mania... I don't know if she's actually bi-polar, but her blog reads like she is. She cycles through phases, and when she's manic she is just tyrannical.

I don't believe in God, but ever since I first saw this thread I've been praying - and there really is no other word for it, although I've searched for one - for her poor daughter. She desperately needs to be saved from her mother. I've lost sleep thinking about how she must feel, trying to please her mother and never being able to. She says she outwardly loves and encourages her daughter, but when your parents aren't happy with you, you know. You just do. I'm certain that her daughter knows exactly how Camilla freels about her.

I also believe that she didn't imagine the bullying. I'm sure her daughter doesn't believe as she does. I'm sure that she expresses her frustration and anger and feelings of helplessness by sometimes bullying her brothers - she can't very well speak her mind or explain her feelings to her family, after all. She'd have to be superhuman to survive her life without some kind of coping mechanism.

Camilla's expectations are overwhelmingly unrealistic. Her list of expected behaviours is shocking, even for a Pearl-loving fundie. It scares me that she expects this much, and then she obviously expects still more from her 'rebellious' daughter.

I want someone to 'sting' Camilla with something - a switch, with words, with bible quotations, anything - until she believes what I do: that she is sick, she is emotionally abusing her daughter, and above all, that she needs help. The fact that nobody can help her daughter (or other kids) makes me teary and sick to the stomach. I wish there were some way to help.

[AnnoDomini]

Oh Vex, I wish I could say something to make it better. I'm right there with you wishing to 'sting' Camilla. I know how it is to feel never good enough (though thankfully not much anymore).

Also, how do you have that cool 'defrauding for the greater good' on your avatar? I'm positiv I never had that one.

[oscar]

Now I'm getting even more suspicious about her.

According to this post; http://homeschoolblogger.com/mrse/433360/

So far in her blog I've established she has suffered with Bi Polar, borderline psychosis, arthritis and Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura. According to the above entry, she has also been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. With the exception of ITP, none of these magically disappear. Even with ITP, it can be cured but it needs treatment with drugs, blood transfusions, steroids and sometimes chemo. I've been there with that one, thankfully I didn't need chemo. Mine was treated with steroids and transfusions.

If this woman has had a spontaneous, miraculous cure of MS then why has the world not heard about it via medical journals? MS doesn't just go away.

I'm beginning to think attention seeking, maybe even Munchausens.

I'm not terribly suspicious about this aspect of her story, given my experience with obtaining a (correct) MS diagnosis. I believe the diagnostic criteria are two separate attacks at least one month apart, and at least two lesions on the brain or spinal cord. Many people who have MS do not meet these criteria when they first approach their doctor complaining about MS-related symptoms.

Because my brain has been really good at remyelination and/or many of my lesions have been small, the only times my lesions have been visible on a scan are when they are active during an attack. Nevertheless, my symptoms were consistent with MS and my doctor believed I would benefit from starting therapy prior to ascertaining a positive diagnosis. My diagnosis was "probable MS" for several years before my lesions were finally caught in the act.

I know two other people whose "probable MS" diagnoses turned out to be incorrect. They each suffer from a different rare autoimmune disorder for which they had received multiple, incorrect diagnoses.

So, I am willing to believe that Mrs. E has a real autoimmune condition responsible for her arthritis pain, MS-like symptoms and ITP, for which she has yet to receive a correct diagnosis. In many cases, ITP's cause is not idiopathic but autoimmune. But it seems like each time an incorrect diagnosis is discarded, she gives credit to the Lord for curing her of that condition, rather than recognizing that she never actually had it in the first place.

[Muffy]

Sola wrote,

I'm beginning to think attention seeking, maybe even Munchausens.

I've spent some (too much!) time reading Mrs. E's archived posts again, and that has brought back memories of how much her writing bothered me from the time I first found her original blog. I've been struggling to articulate to myself what it is about Mrs. E that is just so irritating and alarming, even to someone who shares many of her Christian beliefs (as I do).

I think it comes down to this: those of us who have been Christians for awhile typically understand that there are a hundred shades of gray when it comes to "convictions" about lifestyle choices. I actually don't have a problem, for instance, with the idea that a family would choose to reject a church's children's ministry and not participate in the church's Christmas play. If a family decides that a particular program doesn't reflect their personal values, more power to 'em. There is room for that. That's what "Christian freedom" is all about.

The Bible even talks about that, in several places. But the funny thing is, the person who develops all sorts of strict convictions about aspects of life that are not already clearly commanded in scripture is actually NOT portrayed as the superior believer. Instead, the person who feels led to make his life increasingly more and more narrow, as Mrs. E obviously has, is called the "weaker brother."

The Bible gives instructions for how to handle the weaker brother. People who don't share the weaker brother's convictions are not supposed to flaunt their freedom in front of the weaker brother but instead are supposed to respect him and support him. At the same time, though, the weaker brother is encouraged to keep his convictions to himself, between him and God.

I think Mrs. E missed that passage of scripture.

Or, as Sola suggests, Mrs. E wants attention.

Almost everything Mrs. E writes is infused with a strong sense of her own superiority. Vague "friends" are always wanting to know how she manages. Her old blog had whole posts about what her family eats, what she wears, what their household cleaning routine is like, and how they stay so organized. Every time "God tells her" to ditch yet another aspect of modern culture - like birth control, most movies, or Christmas greenery - Mrs. E seems so supremely confident that her life is getting narrower because she's growing closer to God. The clear implication is that if you don't share her convictions, you "just haven't reached the same place" that she has...meaning, you just aren't as close to God as she is.

I also get the sense that Mrs. E hasn't really had anyone teaching or mentoring her, at least not in any day-to-day real-life relational way. (She mentions listening to teaching tapes from S.M. Davis and attending some homeschooling conventions, but that's not the same as being part of a group of Christians at church, where you all mutually encourage and submit to one another.) Instead, she saw herself as having reached a higher plane spiritually than everyone else. In the posts that led to the removal of her original blog, she complained extensively about her pastor and her church's "luke-warmness." Anyone who tried to bring Mrs. E correction just couldn't be right - Mrs. E clearly saw herself as hearing from God and knowing better than everyone.

All her blog writings are along the lines of, "Look at me - look at how I do everything! Look at my superior Christian life!" That produces a strong sense of cognitive dissonance in anyone who has had some experience living the Christian life, because those of us who have been at this thing for awhile know that the more like Jesus a person is, the less she will need to call attention to herself.

I know the most pressing and obvious problem is that Mrs. E continues to struggle with mental illness. But I think the Christian piece of this is what saddens me so deeply. She is using her faulty understanding of the Christian life (for instance, thinking that the more restricted one's lifestyle becomes, the closer one is to God) to inflict untold damage on her kids, who have to be sensing her frustration and inner turmoil.

[edited for a typo]

[Muffy]

Vex said,

I want someone to 'sting' Camilla with something - a switch, with words, with bible quotations, anything - until she believes what I do: that she is sick, she is emotionally abusing her daughter, and above all, that she needs help. The fact that nobody can help her daughter (or other kids) makes me teary and sick to the stomach. I wish there were some way to help.

Yes! This!

It occurred to me that the fact that there is probably nobody in Mrs. E's life who could get her to see the truth about herself is TOTALLY a sign that she is not the über-Christian she so clearly thinks she is.

[NurseNell]

With the exception of ITP, none of these magically disappear. Even with ITP, it can be cured but it needs treatment with drugs, blood transfusions, steroids and sometimes chemo. I've been there with that one, thankfully I didn't need chemo. Mine was treated with steroids and transfusions.

She was treated with all those things plus chemo, at least according to her. She was hospitalized a few weeks and was on chemo quite awhile.

My Dad had it in the 40's, a cousin in the 50's. Not a fun condition (as you know).

[apple1]

...My Dad had it in the 40's, a cousin in the 50's. Not a fun condition (as you know).

I held out longer than many on FJ, giving you the benefit of the doubt. But, wow, no one person could POSSIBLY have had as many personal experiences as you- not even if you were 110 years old.

Answering every thread on FJ with "your own personal experiences" negates or minimizes others' comments. This is why some FJ-ers are having such a negative reaction to some of your posts.

Maybe you really do have this particular personal application, but in the context of everything... it's kind of like the boy who cried wolf. After so much, it doesn't mean anything.

[skankbiscuit]

I hope she gets treatment for her mental illness, before she hurts her family more. That poor girl. She sounds like she is way better behaved than the average 12 year old. She may not do the chores with a huge smile on her face, but she does them. I do not do chores with a smile on my face EVER and I am 37.

[antifundie]

I haven't read the blog in question (can't bring myself to do it), but oh my gosh, my heart hurts for that little girl!! Why do parents insist on controlling attitude? I mean, who really LIKES housework? (ok, some people might), but I'd venture to say that most people like the result of their work, not necessarily the work itself. And children are just that...CHILDREN, which means they are learning and growing and can't do everything all at once. Ugh.

Also, way to screw up your kid--not only do you have to do chores, but you have to do them cheerfully, otherwise Jesus will hate you. I mean, what's so bad about a 12-year old just doing the chore so they can get on with their day, you know?

[Aislynn]

Oh my goodness. I've read through this entire thread, many times with tears, and got caught in the dark web of her blog. Ugh. I just want to cry for her children. Wish there was something more we could do.

I don't really know if there is a point to my comment, but I feel like I have to say something. Mostly because I was that girl - in SO MANY ways, I was that girl - and no one said anything to my mom. I want to rescue her because no one rescued me. Argh.

[Austin]

Oh my goodness. I've read through this entire thread, many times with tears, and got caught in the dark web of her blog. Ugh. I just want to cry for her children. Wish there was something more we could do.

I don't really know if there is a point to my comment, but I feel like I have to say something. Mostly because I was that girl - in SO MANY ways, I was that girl - and no one said anything to my mom. I want to rescue her because no one rescued me. Argh.

Speaking up is always the first step. We may not accomplish much by speaking up, or so it seems, but shining a light on bad theology and bad parenting based on mental illness being passed off as bad theology can never be a bad thing.

I wish someone had rescued you.

[annalena]

Heart wrenching is right. The replies were interesting, several people tried to tell her the mistakes she was making. Given she posted this a year ago, and her 11 y.o. is now the 12 y.o. she writes of she obviously didn't take anyone's advice.

brainwashing bootcamp!

[emmiedahl]

I really want to leave a comment, but I can't. I was thinking last night that often when my children have a bad attitude, it is because I am having a bad attitude. When I begin acting more loving, accepting, eager to help, etc, then they also become more so. I thought she might be open to that advice if I used a lot of christianspeak and went to say as much, but it is like impossible on that board.

I think that if she changed her own attitude, the daughter would fall right into line. It is easy to forget, even as an attachment parent like me, that you get what you give. Am I happy to do my homework? Do I do chores with a joyful spirit or do I grumble while I pick up endless socks? Am I forgiving, merciful, etc when my children make mistakes? If I can't correct my own behavior and attitude, then it is not right to expect that of a small child.

[skankbiscuit]

I really want to leave a comment, but I can't. I was thinking last night that often when my children have a bad attitude, it is because I am having a bad attitude. When I begin acting more loving, accepting, eager to help, etc, then they also become more so. I thought she might be open to that advice if I used a lot of christianspeak and went to say as much, but it is like impossible on that board.

I think that if she changed her own attitude, the daughter would fall right into line. It is easy to forget, even as an attachment parent like me, that you get what you give. Am I happy to do my homework? Do I do chores with a joyful spirit or do I grumble while I pick up endless socks? Am I forgiving, merciful, etc when my children make mistakes? If I can't correct my own behavior and attitude, then it is not right to expect that of a small child.

I am astonished how much my children's moods fall in step with my own. Like you said "you get what you give". Well said.

[Austin]

I am astonished how much my children's moods fall in step with my own. Like you said "you get what you give". Well said.

Co-sign.

[Muffy]

Co-sign.

Yep. Ditto!

[Muffy]

Oh, one more thing - yesterday, when I glanced at Mrs. E's blog, it showed that someone had posted a comment. Turns out it was from Mrs. E herself, thanking "everyone" who had written her for their encouragement, and saying that she realizes that her daughter might just be going through a phase.

I truly hope she gets it and wasn't just saying what she thought people want to hear. I really hope that this new realization ("It's just a phase") informs and shapes how she views and treats her daughter. I really hope that she ceases viewing her kids with suspicious negativity.

I hope all of those things.

But until she posts about finally breaking down and seeking professional help for her mental problems, I will remain concerned for her kids, especially her only daughter.

[Mommy22alyns]

As someone who suffers from Tourettes Syndrome, this makes me very very angry and emotional. Hopefully this woman acknowledges the disease, or that kid's life is going ot be very miserable indeed. I'm going to stop thinking about it before I start crying...

THIS disgusts me. It just sounds so barbaric.

[Hane]

Oh, one more thing - yesterday, when I glanced at Mrs. E's blog, it showed that someone had posted a comment. Turns out it was from Mrs. E herself, thanking "everyone" who had written her for their encouragement, and saying that she realizes that her daughter might just be going through a phase.

I truly hope she gets it and wasn't just saying what she thought people want to hear. I really hope that this new realization ("It's just a phase") informs and shapes how she views and treats her daughter. I really hope that she ceases viewing her kids with suspicious negativity.

I hope all of those things.

But until she posts about finally breaking down and seeking professional help for her mental problems, I will remain concerned for her kids, especially her only daughter.

To be fair to this whackjob woman, I believe she may be alluding to the replies she got via Facebook. I'd post her Facebook name, but I think it's against our rules, and the Facebook conversation popped up in her Comments anyway.