Quiverfull Mom Expresses "Disgust" For 12-Year-Old Daughter

[Muffy]

 

I can't even remember how I found the first incarnation of "Mrs. E's" blog, but I've been following her with horrified fascination for probably 5 years or longer. On her old blog, she posted under her full real name...until one of her prissy self-righteous rants about the poor toilet hygiene habits of the 5-year-olds in the Sunday school class she taught provoked the rightful ire of the people in her church community. Her blog disappeared for awhile, but I guess Mrs. E just felt like she had too much wisdom to share. She continues to post, although very sporadically, here: homeschoolblogger.com/mrse

 

The back story, as best I've been able to piece together, is that Mrs. E has one son from a previous marriage who is now about 16 or 17. That son was maybe 3 or 4 when his mom married "Mr. E." The "E's" had a daughter together, after which Mr. E had a vasectomy. At some point after the vasectomy, the "E's" were having marriage struggles. On her old blog, Mrs. E described her big crisis point, where she was literally lying on her kitchen floor, having what sounded like some sort of mental breakdown. At that moment, she felt like God talked to her, telling her to get up off the floor and start clamping down and tightening up. She soon had quit her job (I think she was a journalist of some sort) and embraced what I'm guessing must be Gothardism. She described a very austere life, where they moved from Denver to some land in Indiana that was out in the middle of nowhere. Her children had virtually no toys, and of course they homeschooled.

 

It wasn't long before she was begging her husband to have his vasectomy reversed. Mrs. E described how eventually she took on a much more "submissive wife" persona and stopped asking, and after that, her husband relented and had the reversal. When I found her first blog, she had a toddler and was soon pregnant with post-reversal baby #2. So, at that point, she had her 12-year-old son, her 7-year-old daughter, a 1-year-old, and a baby on the way.

 

Very shortly after that second post-reversal baby was born, Mrs. E got pregnant again. That baby might have been 2 when she had baby #3, and I believe she might be pregnant with #4 right now.

 

Some of the stuff Mrs. E has posted about what she expects out of her older children is just heart-wrenching. You can read a particularly disturbing post here: homeschoolblogger.com/mrse/774826/

 

After that post was written, Mrs. E developed some weird immune system disorder that had to be treated with chemo. She was very sick for a long time but now, like I said, is pregnant again. During her illness, she hadn't posted too much about the demands she was placing on her daughter. But the most recent post, which I will quote in its entirety in case she deletes it, is once again very disturbing. You can see it here - homeschoolblogger.com/mrse/781907/ - and here it is:

 

 

Quote

To my sisters, this post is to simply ask for encouragement and advice. I have been praying about this matter so fervently for quite some time, and while God has led in many ways, I feel led to ask for the wisdom of godly mothers.

 

I am struggling in my relationship with my daughter. She is 12. She is a delightful, amazing girl and seems to have a heart for God. But I feel far from her, and separated. The honest truth is I feel constantly irritated and upset with her and have absolutely no patience. Every time I see any deficiency in obedience, or in diligence, I am completely fed up. When her selfishness or laziness manifests, I feel absolutely disgusted and don’t even remotely feel like encouraging or correcting lovingly AGAIN. What I feel is very close to “dislike,†if we’re being honest.

 

Here is what I have been doing:

 

I have been encouraging her God given strengths, talents and interests, such as supporting her music, choir, crocheting, painting, sewing.

 

I have been praising her virtues–when I see her (which feels more rare than it is) making the right decisions, putting God first, behaving in a Godly manner, I let her know and tell her how she blesses me. However, I feel I almost NEVER see this behavior. To me it seems all her performance is outward, and though she can look and act polished, repentant, pretty, and godly, my instinct is that she constantly harbors a subtle, secret rebellion. It terrifies me.

 

I have been exhorting her with scriptures and work with her each morning to choose to live to please God. She seems to be 100% on board with this, but again, my perception is it is all lip service.

 

I work with her in her chores, side by side. I try to serve her and do things for her. If I discern she is tired, I offer her a break. If I think she might be stressed, I offer her a break. I try to give her plenty of time for the things she enjoys, but deep down I feel if she is given the choice she would choose NOTHING but seflish pleasures and think of no one else. When no one is looking, she is a different person. I actually caught her twice in two days bullying her 6yo brother–she hit him for trying to help her put a game away, and another time she pushed him off HIS scooter and took it from him. She glanced towards the house first to make sure no one was looking.

 

She does many chores–always has, it’s the way our home works for all the children. However, 99 out of 100 times, she must be ASKED to do her chores (ridiculous for a 12yo), and then 99 out of 100 times, the chore is done poorly. I usually can’t tell she’s done it or even tried. She almost never does the work the way she has repeatedly been shown, carefully and patiently. Certain simple chores go for weeks without being touched–although they are on her daily list. I wait to see if she will even attempt it. But she doesn’t.

 

She is showing some improvement in that I told her to make her brothers a priority, and more often the past few months I see her dedicating time to play with them and entertain them, and I can tell she is consciously making the decision to do the right thing. My spirit discerns it in her spirit, and there is an atmosphere of joy about it all.

 

Otherwise, it seems there is a continual subtle undercurrent of unrest, anger, frustration, struggle, and warfare. I do not LIKE what I see and feel in her day in and day out. It angers me and irritates me and disgusts me. It seems sneaky and destructive. I fear for her heart, and am at a loss for where the true problem lies and where I am missing the boat. I feel I can’t see the forest for the trees. I am afraid I can’t see my own heart. I have no idea what is missing, but I feel I am missing something simple and obvious. I am asking for help from an objective perspective. I’ve tried to describe this as honestly as possible, and will gladly tell you more in order to gain some wise and godly counsel from my godly sisters in Christ. Brutal honesty is welcome, of course. Thank you in advance.

 

Adding more: She has periods where “all feels right†spiritually. For example, this morning her attitude is wonderful and joyful. She is doing her chores and being pleasant to her brothers, and I don’t feel spiritual unrest or sense rebellion. But these periods are few and far between. How do we move more towards this and flee the other foolishness?

 

Since she's asking for advice, I would love it if some of the formerly Quiverfull moms here would gently tell Mrs. E just what sort of damage she's doing to her daughter with all those unrealistic expectations. I'm seriously concerned that Mrs. E will drive her daughter to have her own "kitchen floor moment," a mental breakdown of her own. The poor little girl!

[BravaAmica]

She sounds like a normal 12 year old. Too bad she has a whack job for a mother.

[Kelya]

Ugh, what a nutjob.

Seems like the daughter is a perfectly usual 12 year old and trying out her boundaries and experimenting with the kind of personality she's developing. Unlike most healthy parents, which know to back off and let kids shape themselves, she gets a nutjob who keeps on pressing, even writing for all to see on the internet that she feels disgust and dislike towards her!

Back off. Ease up on the chores. (I really don't believe in kids having daily chores apart from keep your room clean, make your bed, and maybe help dry the dishes. Weekly chores, yes, like sweep the living room on Fridays or fold the towels on Tuesdays, but a daily list of multiple chores for keeping common areas cleans seems a bit much to me. But I firmly believe in huge amounts of downtime, activity time, play time, whatever for kids of all ages.) Get yourself into therapy and let your kid explore a little.

[Guest Anonymous]

The poor child is a slave. I read further on the blog. One morning Mrs.E was having a tough time she took her coffee out to the hut tub and did her meditation. I'm sure the daughter slave was busy doing the housework. Women like this absolutely disgust me.

[Austin]

To whatever extent the daughter has a "rebellious" spirit, I hope she nutures and keeps it. Perhaps she is just not willing to be subsumed by her mother's whackadoodle, overbearing, legalistic religion. If she can keep a little part of herself "safe" throughout her adolescence, she may be able to make a break for it.

Mrs. E sounds like a real bitch. The child is 12 years old and she has lists of chores to do every single day and is exhorted to make her brothers her priority. Yeah, there's no problem there. :roll:

There is nothing wrong with a child having some chores, but how the mother describes working alongside the daughter and having to "give her a break" (isn't that sweet of her?) makes me think this girl, like so many fundie girls, is doing way too much housework and childrearing and not spending enough time being a kid.

[hoipolloi]

The woman is a psychotic bitch. Yikes.

I predict those kids are going to skedaddle the nano-second they each turn 18. And they won't leave a forwarding address or phone number either.

[Guest Anonymous]

The mother writes about "supporting her music, choir, crocheting, painting, sewing". How do we know these are things her daughter likes, and not what she expects the child to like?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The kid DOES the chores, which is pretty amazingly well behaved, if you ask me.

I can't help but wonder if this woman (or others like her) ever stop to interrogate themselves over whether they like doing THEIR own work and chores? You can force someone to do work, you can even force someone to smile while doing it, but you can't control what someone thinks. The commenter way down at the bottom asking how she'd like it if her husband tried the same tactics on her was right on.

Scary thing though, I wonder just what this "rebellion" the mom is seeing really is. Quite possibly the mom has some dislike for the kid already for whatever reason and so sees everything the kid does in the worst possible light, and it just feeds itself in a positive spiral, which would be damn scary. Religion completely aside, you can read about child abuse cases that happen like that - parent doesn't like the kid for whatever reason, so sees everything the kid does as rebellion, punishes like crazy, kid gets fearful, wash, rinse, repeat.

How terrible for that girl.

[BoomerLynn]

Sounds like the girl is being a normal 12 year old to me. Hopefully she'll stay rebellious enough to pack up and leave the moment she turns 18.

[finleeport]

The woman sounds schizophrenic (no offense to anyone who has schizophrenia)

[masagoroll]

I think her mom is just pathologizing normal 12-year-old behavior. My mom and I are ridiculously close, but when I was about 11, I started being so rude and arguing with her all the time. That just happens around that age. But no, of course, it's dark spiritual forces! That mom sounds truly paranoid.

[GeoBQn]

I just read the previous post on the family's homeschooling curriculum. No wonder the girl is acting out sometimes, her "schooling" sounds really boring. It basically amounts to (listed in order of priority):

Read Bible and book called "Joyfully at Home"

Practice penmanship

Do chores and take care of her younger brothers (yes, this is included as "school")

Math and social studies (but only if she's completed her chores and taken care of her younger brothers)

Miscellaneous (writing, reading, grammar, Spanish, typing, science)

She elaborates about the "miscellaneous subjects."

None of these subjects are considered crucial for her at this point. She can do them if she likes–and she likes to do them. But I told her I would rather her practice her piano and voice, sew, crochet, cook, or try other projects and hobbies. I am not worried about her keeping up. In a couple of years, she will start ticking off her HS credits. For now, we are working on wisdom, faith, servitude, keeping God first in all things, maturity, responsibility, biblical womanhood, godliness, and love of life!

[myanimus]

I let her know and tell her how she blesses me. However, I feel I almost NEVER see this behavior. To me it seems all her performance is outward, and though she can look and act polished, repentant, pretty, and godly, my instinct is that she constantly harbors a subtle, secret rebellion. It terrifies me.

For a minute i thought omg! Did mom have another family? My upbringing was not like this but the mom sure sounds a lot like mine.

In all seriousness though, this lady's a bitch and I feel so badly for her daughter, she has to know, she senses it and at the age of 12 it's already clear to her she is and never will be good enough for her mother. It's so heartbreaking to me, this little girl wants love and acceptance, she needs it and deserves it but will never get it from her mother. So sad.

[finleeport]

None of these subjects are considered crucial for her at this point. She can do them if she likes–and she likes to do them. But I told her I would rather her practice her piano and voice, sew, crochet, cook, or try other projects and hobbies. I am not worried about her keeping up. In a couple of years, she will start ticking off her HS credits. For now, we are working on wisdom, faith, servitude, keeping God first in all things, maturity, responsibility, biblical womanhood, godliness, and love of life!

That biblical womanhood part, I don't think I like the sound of it. When I hear those words I think of repression, gender stereotypes, dominance and submission (or BDSM) and breeding stock.

[masagoroll]

I just read the previous post on the family's homeschooling curriculum. No wonder the girl is acting out sometimes, her "schooling" sounds really boring. It basically amounts to (listed in order of priority):

Read Bible and book called "Joyfully at Home"

Practice penmanship

Do chores and take care of her younger brothers (yes, this is included as "school")

Math and social studies (but only if she's completed her chores and taken care of her younger brothers)

Miscellaneous (writing, reading, grammar, Spanish, typing, science)

She elaborates about the "miscellaneous subjects."

I just read the homeschooling post, too! It made me so mad! None of the boys had to do their chores FIRST before academics or practice "blessing" the rest of the family through their servitude! And her duties included doing ALL mothering duties for the little boys when needed. Not appropriate!

Here's the post-- homeschoolblogger.com/mrse/781904/

I actually think her preschool homeschooling sounds really good and appropriate. Her 2nd grade homeschooling is OK, I guess (and why is her kid in 2nd grade if he just turned six?). Then her daughter is just a SLAVE with academics shoved aside, and her son does stupid CollegePlus!

[BlackHawk]

B is the only daughter in a family of all boys, including the one Camilla is pregnant with. I have a feeling she is overworked and underappreciated. I've read Camilla's blog since before she went Mrs. E on everyone. I don't think the oldest boy is someone else's child. She had the two older children before she became psychotic. She was also on a lot of meds for bi polar disorder. But when she "got saved" she was "healed" of her affliction. I have a feeling her disorder is raring it's ugly head and B is suffering because of it.

[NurseNell]

She sounds like a normal 12 year old. Too bad she has a whack job for a mother.

That was my thought too. She's just a normal kid. And if she thinks it's hard now wait another year or two. It will get worse before it gets better.

[Austin]

B is the only daughter in a family of all boys, including the one Camilla is pregnant with. I have a feeling she is overworked and underappreciated. I've read Camilla's blog since before she went Mrs. E on everyone. I don't think the oldest boy is someone else's child. She had the two older children before she became psychotic. She was also on a lot of meds for bi polar disorder. But when she "got saved" she was "healed" of her affliction. I have a feeling her disorder is raring it's ugly head and B is suffering because of it.

Does she take medication for her bipolar disorder, or is Jesus supposed to be taking care of all of that? If she's "healed", there's probably no need for meds, right?

[BlackHawk]

Does she take medication for her bipolar disorder, or is Jesus supposed to be taking care of all of that? If she's "healed", there's probably no need for meds, right?

No meds what so ever. Jesus healed her of everything. She believes she was not really bi polar but that because she wasn't in line with Jesus in her life he was giving her a signal to come to him. She doesn't have a lot of those posts on this blog. Her old blog was a gem of stuff about how disease doesn't really exist and how if we all came to Jesus he would heal us too.

[NurseNell]

[

Some of the stuff Mrs. E has posted about what she expects out of her older children is just heart-wrenching. You can read a particularly disturbing post here: homeschoolblogger.com/mrse/774826/

Heart wrenching is right. The replies were interesting, several people tried to tell her the mistakes she was making. Given she posted this a year ago, and her 11 y.o. is now the 12 y.o. she writes of she obviously didn't take anyone's advice.

[luckylassie]

The only "disgust" I feel is for the mom.

[NurseNell]

In a more recent post she says:

working with me in a co-home management role

Why can't she just be a kid? She should not have to be a junior mother, a home manager. I am so glad I got to be a kid and a normal teenager. And glad my kids did too.

[jenny_islander]

I hope she's lurking here, because this is what I would like to tell her:

Mrs. E., you are treating your daughter like a house slave.

On top of that, you are expecting her to be the mommy. You are the mommy. No one else.

What's more, you are trying to turn Jesus into Magic Mister Daddy. Jesus doesn't say, "Come to me and I will make it all better, sweetie." He says, "Come to me because my yoke is easy, my burden is light." We all have jobs to do. We can't pick a checklist of Officially Sanctioned Godly Behaviors, check them off, and say our work is done. We are to be Jesus' hands and feet in this world. All of us. Not just the overworked twelve-year-olds whose mothers like to sit around and think about how godly they are.

Whatever you were listening to, it wasn't Jesus; it was your sickness or some guru looking for a follower. Feeling like you have all the answers is a wonderful drug, isn't it? But you don't, or you wouldn't treat the normal process of becoming an adult as if your daughter were sinning against you by not being a little meat robot obeying your commands. She is a person. Not your person.

The way out of your little morass of self-satisfaction is messy, difficult, and probably involves medication. Get over yourself and do what it takes to be a parent.

[BoomerLynn]

Heart wrenching is right. The replies were interesting, several people tried to tell her the mistakes she was making. Given she posted this a year ago, and her 11 y.o. is now the 12 y.o. she writes of she obviously didn't take anyone's advice.

This makes me so sad for her poor children. What happened to just being innocent and carefree? Isn't that what childhood is all about? Children should not be burdened this way.

[VVV]

After skimming through her "homeschool" post, I have a couple of comments:

(decided to delete my first comment because I'm afraid that if she lurks here and saw it, she would take away what is evidently one of her daughter's few pleasures in life.)

She says that her son has done "College Math," which included Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2. Ummm. That is not college math. Algebra 1 is middle school math; Geometry and Algebra 2 are early high school.

I really, really pity her daughter. What a drudgery of a childhood.