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John David and Abbie 7: Happiness Continues

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samurai_sarah
13 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Jim Bob was so ignorant. That may have been an innocent enough question to him but in Scotland that could have caused trouble. Sectarianism is dying out but it can still occur. 

ITA. I only had one brush with sectarianism in Scotland, but that was scary enough. Ever since, I do not ever, ever bring up religion in any way, shape or form in Scotland. To Jim Bob it might be a normal question, but thanks to sectarianism, I don't want to know. I have no idea what my neighbours believe in, and I don't want to know.

Sectarianism has taught me that I'd rather talk to strangers about my undies, than religion. I'll develop a sudden enthusiastic interest in ornithology, if I have to, before I talk religion in real life in Scotland.

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Belugaloo
3 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

ITA. I only had one brush with sectarianism in Scotland, but that was scary enough. Ever since, I do not ever, ever bring up religion in any way, shape or form in Scotland. To Jim Bob it might be a normal question, but thanks to sectarianism, I don't want to know. I have no idea what my neighbours believe in, and I don't want to know.

Sectarianism has taught me that I'd rather talk to strangers about my undies, than religion. I'll develop a sudden enthusiastic interest in ornithology, if I have to, before I talk religion in real life in Scotland.

Can someone explain Sectarianism and its relationship with Scotland? I quick google search didn't help me out :) 

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just_ordinary
4 minutes ago, Belugaloo said:

Can someone explain Sectarianism and its relationship with Scotland? I quick google search didn't help me out :) 

From what I have gathered it’s a similar issue as the Nothern Ireland Protestant/Catholic conflict. 

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samurai_sarah
46 minutes ago, Belugaloo said:

Can someone explain Sectarianism and its relationship with Scotland? I quick google search didn't help me out :) 

Uhm, it's complicated and I would rather someone like @Glasgowghirl would explain it. But for the now, @just_ordinary has got the long and short of it. It's very, very complicated, due to historical baggage and then some.

I'm not trying to wriggle out of anything, I'm just in a position where I really don't want to set a foot wrong. Please understand. And I know that I'm asking the impossible, so I'll try to keep it brief and hopefully to the point.

(Yeah, that didn't work too well, so I spoilered a long bit of abbreviated history.)
 

Spoiler

 

Ireland was a country that England repeatedly invaded. After 1066 Norman landlords came over to Ireland. Feudalism was quite new to Ireland, but the new landlords adapted. Then Henry VIII happened, he of fame for beheading Anne Boleyn. The Reformation of Ireland didn't go well for the English. Terrible things happened on both sides that created hard feelings.

Cue the 17th century and things got worse. Spain and France as the leading Catholic powers in Europe tried using Ireland and Scotland as a backdoor. They'd tried this before, but things got serious. With a large population of Protestant settlers in Ulster (aka Northern Ireland), and a huge war on the continent, defeating Ireland and Scotland (where rebellions brewed as well), was paramount.

Are you confused already? Add the potato famine in 1848, and the brutal tactics that English landowners used to get tenants off their lands.

But most importantly, Catholicism was considered a religion of terrorism. It started with Guy Fawkes in the 1600s, and stayed so. Being a Catholic meant that you were a potential terrorist. And that thinking is deeply engrained. Not least of all, thanks to the IRA.

What do they have to do with Scotland? In terms of faith, Scotland has never been a unified country. But during the 19th century, a lot of Irish Catholics came over to work. The habitual discrimination against Catholics didn't go down well, and it's been passed down and fossilised. And here we are. All of us. To our detriment.

I'm sure, I've missed out on a load of things that are important. I just wanted to provide a brief overlook, as to how and why. It's hardly a neutral take, but trying to historically summarise as an outsider is a bit tricky.

 

 

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nastyhobbitses
18 hours ago, MargaretElliott said:

I was just having a conversation with my mother.... I moved in with my SO a few months ago and she said "well I guess you guys are pretty serious." She comes from the school of not-living-together-until-marriage. I said that I would never marry someone unless I had lived with them for a significant amount of time first. She nodded and said something along the lines of, "Yeah it's different from when I got married, but not a bad idea." The idea of marrying someone when you've never even been alone in a room with them..... I just can't comprehend it. It's absolutely mind-boggling.

I've heard people (mainly nosy aunts) say things along the lines of, "if you live with him before marriage, he'll drag his feet and never propose," and "if you live together before marriage, what changes afterwards? What is there to look forward to?" Ummmmmmm a lifetime of love and commitment with a totally awesome human? That's pretty cool. If you're marrying someone mostly because you want to live with them/have sex with them, that's a pretty poor reason to get married, in my opinion. I live with my SO because I want to, and I love seeing his face every day. If I ever want to marry him, I'll marry him, because I want to spend my life with him. Simple as that.

Even if you do live apart/save sex for marriage, those decisions should be really small blips in the grand scheme of spending your life with someone...... the person is more important than the penis. You can quote me on that.

It all just reminds me of the John Mulaney "Why buy the cow" routine.

Why buy the cow?” Uh, maybe because every time another cow gets bought, you have to go to the sale and you have to sit next to your cow at the sale, and your cow looks over at you the entire time like *angry cow noise*. And does not enjoy the sale at all… even though SHE'S the one that wanted to go to the sale. And she’s especially mad because that farmer and cow met, like, eight months after you guys met.

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DigDugger

I just saw the most recent episode, and I like this couple.  I also like JD's relationship with his twin.

I wonder if the town of Fredericksburg, TX sponsored this episode.  The town name, was mentioned about 20 times, even though it wasn't necessary to the story. 

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nastyhobbitses
10 hours ago, DigDugger said:

I just saw the most recent episode, and I like this couple.  I also like JD's relationship with his twin.

I wonder if the town of Fredericksburg, TX sponsored this episode.  The town name, was mentioned about 20 times, even though it wasn't necessary to the story. 

Maybe it's where Jana will open up her Fundie Pinterest Decor Empire, because when she got to Waco, Joanna Gaines approached her menacingly in a Hobby Lobby parking lot and growled "stay out of my territory". 

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BlessaYourHeart
16 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

ITA. I only had one brush with sectarianism in Scotland, but that was scary enough. Ever since, I do not ever, ever bring up religion in any way, shape or form in Scotland. To Jim Bob it might be a normal question, but thanks to sectarianism, I don't want to know. I have no idea what my neighbours believe in, and I don't want to know.

Sectarianism has taught me that I'd rather talk to strangers about my undies, than religion. I'll develop a sudden enthusiastic interest in ornithology, if I have to, before I talk religion in real life in Scotland.

THIS! I live in Northern Ireland, and sometimes if a random person asks me where I’m from I’ll say somewhere different, like a village or something, to where I’m actually from because I’m scared that I’ll use the wrong name for the city (one is typically used by Catholic/nationalist and the other by Protestant/Unionist) and good ole Sectarianism will raise its head :lol:

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Ais
1 hour ago, BlessaYourHeart said:

THIS! I live in Northern Ireland, and sometimes if a random person asks me where I’m from I’ll say somewhere different, like a village or something, to where I’m actually from because I’m scared that I’ll use the wrong name for the city (one is typically used by Catholic/nationalist and the other by Protestant/Unionist) and good ole Sectarianism will raise its head :lol:

I use both the preferred Nationalist and Unionist name at the same time, it would be quicker to use map coordinates lol

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TatiFish9

I know Kendra gets slack, but these two constanly giggle and through the entire proposal. 

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Threff
2 hours ago, BlessaYourHeart said:

THIS! I live in Northern Ireland, and sometimes if a random person asks me where I’m from I’ll say somewhere different, like a village or something, to where I’m actually from because I’m scared that I’ll use the wrong name for the city (one is typically used by Catholic/nationalist and the other by Protestant/Unionist) and good ole Sectarianism will raise its head :lol:

Derry/Londonderry? That was a BIG THING when I was growing up.

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Howl

A late entry into the surname conversation.  I didn't marry until age 55.  I took my husband's last name. It's a non event and I can't believe how easy it was, although I had to go to the downtown social security office to get a new SS card in my name.  His last name is quite a bit easier to spell than mine.  However, my first name/original last name clearly point to my ancestor's Irish origins. 

For women in professional spheres, especially academia and research, retaining your maiden name can be critically important, because you may have published scientific papers/dissertation/theses under that name prior to marriage and you don't want to inadvertently de-link yourself from that body of work by changing your last name.  

7 hours ago, Threff said:

A google search: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarianism_in_Glasgow   I’m Irish. Also with some Scottish settler stuff which was frowned upon. This is well known to me.

Oh, my goodness.  This triggered remembering Jody what's his name Hodnett, who felt called by God to be a Baptist missionary in (IIRC) Glasgow Lockerbie/Dundee.  Latest I read on fj, he was still there, but in a newer, more svelte iteration.  Still not very successful, but hadn't left yet. 

This adds an entirely new dimension to how a Baptist missionary might be perceived. 

Edited by Howl

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BlessaYourHeart
10 hours ago, Ais said:

I use both the preferred Nationalist and Unionist name at the same time, it would be quicker to use map coordinates lol

I do that too when I have to say where exactly I’m from. But as far as randomers asking? I’ve been from anywhere from Strabane to Coleraine to Dungiven 😂

8 hours ago, Threff said:

Derry/Londonderry? That was a BIG THING when I was growing up.

Yes, and still a thing today 😂

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EmainMacha
27 minutes ago, BlessaYourHeart said:

I do that too when I have to say where exactly I’m from. But as far as randomers asking? I’ve been from anywhere from Strabane to Coleraine to Dungiven 😂

Yes, and still a thing today 😂

I remember one of the radio fellas used to call it Stroke City (as in L/Derry). I called it that for years!

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BlessaYourHeart
Just now, EmainMacha said:

I remember one of the radio fellas used to call it Stroke City (as in L/Derry). I called it that for years!

Ahh yes he died a few years back, I can’t for the life of me remember his name now! 

Seriously the city has that many names now just from people trying to avoid the ‘official’ names and historical names 

Aside from Derry and Londonderry, Doire  and Derry/Londonderry we have Stroke City, Maiden City, Walled City, Legenderry, L-Derry and probably more 

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Ais

@EmainMacha & @BlessaYourHeart I think it was Gerry Anderson that coined Stroke City. 

You definitely hear and see some variation of Maiden City, Walked City or Legenderry far more often than either "original" name.

I have a sister who worked in England and she was asked where she was from she told them it was on the border with Donegal and when they responded with either of the names, she then used that one in the conversation lol 

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OhNoNike
10 hours ago, Threff said:

Derry/Londonderry? That was a BIG THING when I was growing up.

.... are there any Murderinos here?

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HA88
2 hours ago, OhNoNike said:

.... are there any Murderinos here?

Fellow murderino here! I haven't watched it yet, but it is on my list! 

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DigDugger

Before John David arrived in Abbie's kitchen to surprise her, her conversation with her friends was so stilted (scripted?)  Friend: "So Abbie, how has John exceeded your expectations for a boyfriend?"  Abbie didn't hear a car pull up in the driveway?  She didn't hear the door of her house open? Hmmm.

 

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Irishy

In the north, all the road signs say Londonderry, and in the south, they all say Derry. The name Londonderry is not recognised by the Irish government.

I remember some comedian’s famous line about when you pronounce Londonderry, the first six letters are silent :)

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EmainMacha
54 minutes ago, Irishy said:

In the north, all the road signs say Londonderry, and in the south, they all say Derry. The name Londonderry is not recognised by the Irish government.

I remember some comedian’s famous line about when you pronounce Londonderry, the first six letters are silent :)

The last time I drove up to the Causeway most of the signs for L/Derry were unreadable because people had come and blacked out the 'London' and then someone else had come and written it back in, and then that had been scrapped out and so on...

Bit off point but I quite liked the Irish bit of the Europe trip episode. The farmer was so obviously unimpressed by them and looked like he was continuing under duress and his wife's pretend surprise at the number of kids was great. Probably thinking 'yes my granny had 14 kids. Mary down the road had 13. Big deal.'

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Captain Obvious

All this Derry/Londonderry talk reminds me that you all need to go and watch this on Netflix:

Slainte, motherf***ers!

Edited by Captain Obvious
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victoriasponge
22 hours ago, Threff said:

Derry/Londonderry? That was a BIG THING when I was growing up.

I mean I was barely born before the Good Friday agreement and even I know to avoid that one like the plague.

Fortunately my immediate family all came from Limerick, unfortunately I was raised Catholic so still ended up with the politics living in Southern England.

We also don't talk about all the times my Dad gave money to the collections for 'the orphaned children' IRA because, hey, at least it meant he wasn't beaten up at the pub. :dance:

 

Also, I can't compute that this is JDabbie's first Valentine's together. It just doesn't fit in my head. Either it's their first Valentine's together ever or they're married, cannot compute both.

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Ais
1 hour ago, Captain Obvious said:

All this Derry/Londonderry talk reminds me that you all need to go and watch this on Netflix:

Slainte, motherf***ers!

Did you see the Derry Girls mural that was painted to tie in with the new series? It's a fantastic piece of work and a notable change from the political murals we're so used to. And wasn't finished two seconds before it had been photoshopped to reflect both sides of the divide lol

FB_IMG_1550492346930.jpg

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