John David and Abbie 7: Happiness Continues

[singsingsing]

16 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

How is that different from Jinger and Jeremy?  They are all so self righteous.

John does seem ridiculously happy.

Like I said upthread, JD actually didn't say that their standards were different than all his siblings, just some of them, which is true.

12 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Yeah. He is getting it regularly and probably on demand. Why should he not be happy?

For any infinite number of reasons have have nothing to do with sex? lol If only having regular sex made everyone happy all the time. What a world that would be!

[Carm_88]

JD and Abbie certainly seemed more comfortable with each other then say Josiah and Lauren, but that may just be age. Meh. They are what they are at this point. It would be nice if Abbie was working, but if she's not, that's not shocking. 

[SassyPants]

I know all the couples expect Josh and Anna hugged before marriage, although Jill and Derick’s hug appeared to be a mere reflex. Now John and Abbie’s courtship did appear to be more hands on and with more frontal hugging than the others, and I am surprised that they didn’t kiss...from the looks it got damn close. I don’t see how frontal hugs are less “physical” than a kiss on the cheek. The Duggars gave up on the side hugging only rule long ago, cameras be damned.

 

 

Also, did anyone get the impression that John may have been living in his home prior to his engagement and wedding? All those THs were in the same place, and did not appear to be the TTH.

[AtlanticTug]

JD seems like a decent guy with Abby but damn, those Duggar men age really poorly.

[Satan'sFortress]

I have an unnatural dislike for the words court, courting, and courtship.  I've ranted before, but so much of the Duggar/fundie vocabulary bugs the crap out of me. "To purpose" to do something, fellowship, headship, so many more.  Ugh.  Just ugh.

[singsingsing]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I know all the couples expect Josh and Anna hugged before marriage, although Jill and Derick’s hug appeared to be a mere reflex. Now John and Abbie’s courtship did appear to be more hands on and with more frontal hugging than the others, and I am surprised that they didn’t kiss...from the looks it got damn close. I don’t see how frontal hugs are less “physical” than a kiss on the cheek. The Duggars gave up on the side hugging only rule long ago, cameras be damned.

 

 

Also, did anyone get the impression that John may have been living in his home prior to his engagement and wedding? All those THs were in the same place, and did not appear to be the TTH.

I’m pretty sure Josh and Anna side hugged. Some of the other couples only side hugged as well (Joe and Kendra spring to mind - they even had a side hug time limit).

I think the talking heads are usually filmed in a studio that’s set up on the Duggar property, not in the TTH.

[wandering woman]

I am sick of all these wedding proposal scenes that are staged by TLC. The women know that they will get a proposal, and yet they act all surprised. That being said, I like Abbie so far. 

[lexiloumarie]

21 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I know all the couples expect Josh and Anna hugged before marriage, although Jill and Derick’s hug appeared to be a mere reflex. Now John and Abbie’s courtship did appear to be more hands on and with more frontal hugging than the others, and I am surprised that they didn’t kiss...from the looks it got damn close. I don’t see how frontal hugs are less “physical” than a kiss on the cheek. The Duggars gave up on the side hugging only rule long ago, cameras be damned.

 

 

Also, did anyone get the impression that John may have been living in his home prior to his engagement and wedding? All those THs were in the same place, and did not appear to be the TTH.

Jinger and Jeremy's courtship/engagement were very very touchy as well - I remember Michelle's comment about magnets. Both couples seem very natural about it as well. 

[Mama Mia]

On 2/12/2019 at 8:14 AM, singsingsing said:

It’s possible, but they never implied that and said they set very strict standards. They also had two chaperones with them when they got engaged.

Well yea, but they went far away from either of their homes  to do the engagement - I don’t think “romantic weekend alone” would fall anywhere within a mile of their world. Now if one couple in the future comes out with “ we just got back from a quick dash to Cancun, just the two of us” , THAT would be noteworthy. Lol

I don’t doubt at all that they had very strict standards, just from his phrasing, I got the idea that their older age meant they trusted themselves to talk privately without being compelled to make out/ push their boundaries. 

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, Mama Mia said:

Well yea, but they went far away from either of their homes  to do the engagement - I don’t think “romantic weekend alone” would fall anywhere within a mile of their world. Now if one couple in the future comes out with “ we just got back from a quick dash to Cancun, just the two of us” , THAT would be noteworthy. Lol

I don’t doubt at all that they had very strict standards, just from his phrasing, I got the idea that their older age meant they trusted themselves to talk privately without being compelled to make out/ push their boundaries. 

Sure, but their chaperones accompanied them into the same room when they got engaged, so it's not like they were just along because it was a trip away from home. They could've said, "Hey, you two love birds go off on your own for a while and we're going to check out this other place. Meet back here in an hour." Anyway, they didn't specify what their strict standards were beyond being allowed to hug and put their arms around each other, and not being allowed to kiss. Whether they always had chaperones with them or not is anyone's guess.

[nickelodeon]

I feel like being allowed to choose which insultingly strict rules you're including on your mandatory list of insultingly strict rules isn't exactly empowering.

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Sure, but their chaperones accompanied them into the same room when they got engaged, so it's not like they were just along because it was a trip away from home. They could've said, "Hey, you two love birds go off on your own for a while and we're going to check out this other place. Meet back here in an hour." Anyway, they didn't specify what their strict standards were beyond being allowed to hug and put their arms around each other, and not being allowed to kiss. Whether they always had chaperones with them or not is anyone's guess.

Thanks, I hadn’t noticed Jana and the other chaperone walking in the room. Of course having a whole freaking camera crew with you might also put a damper on any urges  towards hanky-panky. ? 

[Pecansforeveryone]

@nickelodeon, exactly. I mean come on, Jinger and Jeremy were thiiiiis close to kissing how many times? What's the big deal if they did break their own rules if you could establish both parties were more than willing and happy to break them? I try truly to see nuance in just about all situations. But these supppper strict courtship are just stupid. They cage  someone in to the point that they can't help breaking a rule because the standards were so non-sensical to begin with. 

[CarrotCake]

I also never understand how kissing is giving away pieces of heart while almost kissing and staring in each other's eye constantly is not.

[lumpentheologie]

3 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

I also never understand how kissing is giving away pieces of heart while almost kissing and staring in each other's eye constantly is not.

Now waiting for the "We're saving looking each other in the eye for marriage" courtship trend...probably in about 15 years when the courting pendulum swings the other way. 

[SamuraiKatz]

JD seems like a decent guy with Abby but damn, those Duggar men age really poorly.

Chickenettii and Tatertot casserole will do that to you.

[Carm_88]

First Valentines Day together! Looks like they were flying 

[Mama Mia]

8 hours ago, SamuraiKatz said:

On 2/12/2019 at 10:29 AM, AtlanticTug said:

JD seems like a decent guy with Abby but damn, those Duggar men age really poorly.

Chickenettii and Tatertot casserole will do that to you.

Conversely, the Duggar WOMEN are gorgeous, and seem to age very well - so I guess I know what recipes to look up ??

[MargaretElliott]

I was just having a conversation with my mother.... I moved in with my SO a few months ago and she said "well I guess you guys are pretty serious." She comes from the school of not-living-together-until-marriage. I said that I would never marry someone unless I had lived with them for a significant amount of time first. She nodded and said something along the lines of, "Yeah it's different from when I got married, but not a bad idea." The idea of marrying someone when you've never even been alone in a room with them..... I just can't comprehend it. It's absolutely mind-boggling.

I've heard people (mainly nosy aunts) say things along the lines of, "if you live with him before marriage, he'll drag his feet and never propose," and "if you live together before marriage, what changes afterwards? What is there to look forward to?" Ummmmmmm a lifetime of love and commitment with a totally awesome human? That's pretty cool. If you're marrying someone mostly because you want to live with them/have sex with them, that's a pretty poor reason to get married, in my opinion. I live with my SO because I want to, and I love seeing his face every day. If I ever want to marry him, I'll marry him, because I want to spend my life with him. Simple as that.

Even if you do live apart/save sex for marriage, those decisions should be really small blips in the grand scheme of spending your life with someone...... the person is more important than the penis. You can quote me on that.

[CharlieInCharge]

24 minutes ago, MargaretElliott said:

... the person is more important than the penis. You can quote me on that.

Done! Great quote btw, we should get some FJ shirts made ?

[Glasgowghirl]

On 2/10/2019 at 8:04 PM, samurai_sarah said:

 

The Duggars would use friendly greetings as opportunities to proselytises, I'd imagine. They would want to explain, hoping to win souls. Because everyone who gives you a friendly greeting as customary, wants to hear about their brand of Christianity. And that would probably go down like a lead balloon.

I base this on having watched their "World Tour", when they went to Scotland, and the Boob randomly started preaching to a street-performer.  

Jim Bob was so ignorant. That may have been an innocent enough question to him but in Scotland that could have caused trouble. Sectarianism is dying out but it can still occur. 

[lumpentheologie]

10 hours ago, MargaretElliott said:

Even if you do live apart/save sex for marriage, those decisions should be really small blips in the grand scheme of spending your life with someone...... the person is more important than the penis. You can quote me on that.

I agree with your whole post, but I do think that sexual compatibility shouldn't be played down too much. Yes, there are people who have happy marriages in which sex isn't very important or who just luck out in their selection of a sexually compatible partner, but for many people figuring out if you're sexually compatible is an essential part of a romantic relationship. 

I'm certainly glad I had sex with multiple people before getting married, since that gave me the opportunity to learn that it's better with some partners than with others, and to make sure I married one of the better ones.  The whole fundie (and even conservative Christian) idea that if you only ever have one partner you'll just be content since you won't know there's anything better out there seems really sad to me. 

[Audrey2]

2 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I agree with your whole post, but I do think that sexual compatibility shouldn't be played down too much. Yes, there are people who have happy marriages in which sex isn't very important or who just luck out in their selection of a sexually compatible partner, but for many people figuring out if you're sexually compatible is an essential part of a romantic relationship. 

 

And, if you are adamant about not having intercourse before marriage, please make sure that you have done enough physically and sexually with your partner that you strongly feel that you will be compatible. I know of someone  who  just recently got married, who believed they should only kiss and hold hands with their partner, and the sex part is not working at all. 

[MargaretElliott]

@lumpentheologie I completely agree! My point was more that the Duggar girls feel the first flush of love, are all amped up on hormones, and are allowed to feel some kind of desire for the first time - and they want to, obviously, be intimate with their partners. So they marry them, because there's no other way for them to participate in sexual activity. And marrying someone just because you want to have sex with them, because there's no other way for you to get within five feet of someone you find sexy... that's a recipe for disaster.

I agree, sexual/lifestyle compatibility is wicked important for me, which is part of the reason I'd want to live with a partner before marriage. However, if you don't want to have sex before marriage due to religious reasons, then at least talk about it and make sure you want to spend the rest of your life with them, not just boink them because they're the first person to give you attention.

I watched a youtube video about a Christian woman who waited until marriage to have sex with her husband. Yes, fine, not my style, but it's not my life - but phrasing she used really put me off. She said that since neither of them had had sex, it was automatically the best sex they'd ever had, and they'd be satisfied because they didn't know any different. She compared it to pizza, you know, how even if it wasn't the best pizza, it was still really good.

Let's extend the food metaphor here. Growing up, I always HATED zucchini. I thought it was gross and mushy and bland. That's because my mother always steamed it, unseasoned, and overcooked it. It was disgusting. And then, later in life, I tried some grilled zucchini, marinated in olive oil and spices..... it was fucking delicious. All of a sudden, I liked zucchini. I still hated the way my mother prepared it, but I could do things differently and spice it up and make it the way I wanted it, so I actually enjoyed it.

Sex worked out the same way. With my first boyfriend, we were both virgins, and sex was.... not my favorite thing. I grew to dread it, over the years. I thought I was abnormal, broken (I've talked about my struggles on this forum before). Then I met my current SO...... and boy did things change. I went from bland, gross, over-steamed zucchini to delicious marinated grilled zucchini. And now I like that zucchini more than I ever thought I would.

I probably could have chosen a less phallic vegetable for my metaphor, but......... ???

Edited February 16, 2019 by MargaretElliott
Spelling is hard

[Tangy Bee]

I doubt a Duggar or Bates will have sex before marriage anytime soon. But I'm stilling waiting for a sweet kiss on the forehead or cheek. Or a quick kiss on the lips. What's the big deal if you are already engaged...with a spy hanging around?? None of the fundies around here appear to have a "spy" with them. I know for a fact they are Duggar and Bates followers!