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Rachel333

Crisis Pregnancy Centers

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Rachel333

John Oliver did a piece last night on crisis pregnancy centers. I'm sure most of us here are aware how awful they are, but it's still definitely worth a watch.

 

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Howl

Texas has poured huge amounts of $$$$ into this crap and abstinence education while gutting Planned Parenthood,  women's centers and access to abortion. 

Texas awarded The Heidi Group, an antiabortion entity, with a multimillion dollar contract to coordinate women's health services statewide.  To say that they imploded spectacularly is an understatement.  They failed because they had zip for experience doing actual health service.  Their grant was cut in half, but they still got a lot of money.  Meanwhile, Texas has sky high maternal death rate and high teen-age pregnancy rates. 

Edited by Howl
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formergothardite

I just finished watching it. It is amazing how they can just openly lie and there are no laws stopping it. People who claim to be against abortion and for these crisis pregnancy centers should wonder why so much lying has to go on. They even lie about condoms telling women that studies show condoms aren't effective. 

And then the part where the head of a CPC brags about cutting women off from help after six months. So they lie to women to get them to remain pregnant and after six months refuse them any sort of help. 

These places are pure evil. 

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RainbowSky

I've been to a few and our church growing up supported one. I've never in my life heard a bunch of this stuff?

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Rachel333
29 minutes ago, RainbowSky said:

I've been to a few and our church growing up supported one. I've never in my life heard a bunch of this stuff?

Been to a few in what sense? As a pregnant woman?

The churches I went to supported some too. I think they usually try to portray the centers in the best light possible to church members so in my experience they're usually described just as supporting unwed mothers, then they'll pass baby bottles around that you fill with change to help the babies. The churches I went to never described any obviously manipulative tactics either, but I wouldn't count on that being accurate.

That said, they're definitely not all the same, and some are even worse than portrayed. John Oliver didn't even go into the phenomenon of CPCs being partnered with adoption agencies and existing to funnel babies through the agency by manipulating even the women  who don't want to abort into believing they can't take care of a child and need to choose adoption. Here's a sad article about some of those practices.

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formergothardite
1 hour ago, RainbowSky said:

I've been to a few and our church growing up supported one. I've never in my life heard a bunch of this stuff?

Were you there as a volunteer or as a woman who was seeking an abortion? I volunteered as a teen in a local crisis pregnancy center and all I saw were happy women wanting to help pregnant folks(granted I was pretty brainwashed with anti-choice crap at that point too), but years later I heard from pregnant women who went to the same place and their experience was different. Lots of heaping guilt on them, dubious medical claims and the idea that adoption was the answer. No adoption is an answer to an unwanted baby, not an unwanted pregnancy. 

ETA: I didn't hear any of the stuff going on in the anti-choice movement or crisis pregnancy centers until I started moving away from the "pro-life" movement. 

And I just looked at the websites for crisis pregnancy centers in NC and yeah, they seem to fall in line with what John Oliver was saying, one even had a section devoted to how condoms fail. I didn't see any so far that encouraged or gave out birth control. 

Edited by formergothardite

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formergothardite

Abby Johnson, the one who said that the best clients are the ones who think they actually went to an abortion clinic and that women need to be cut off of assistance after six months has responded on her FB. Basically it is "blah, blah, blah, PP is evil." But she does admit this:

Quote

Yes, aside from lying and manipulation, we will do whatever it takes to get that woman in the door,

So she is admitting they lie and manipulate women. 

And of course, this lovely bit:

Quote

We are trying to offer and hand up, not a hand out.

How is that "hand up" working for the single mother of four that you just manipulated into keeping a pregnancy all while acting like condoms and birth control don't work? 

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Pammy

I’m kinda feeling “not all crisis pregnancy centres” — maybe I need to take a moment and check myself.

As a Canadian, pregnant women do not come to a centre for medical help with the pregnancy itself... they come for help whatever the “crisis” is. (ie poverty, homelessness, family stress, mental health, etc.)

The centres are interested in discouraging abortion, and will emphasize almost anything else as an alternative for an abortion-minded woman. They have been accused of being overly dramatic in exaggerating aspects of abortion (which staff generally believe to be true).

These things are problematic, but I’m not sure if they are as deeply problematic when a woman has come “to talk” about solving her crisis — when she could have easily just gotten neutral healthcare at a medical clinic without cost or inconvenience. (The pregnancy care centre wouldn’t be providing medical services anyways.)

Doesn’t that imply that she has sought out the services she wanted? 

I’m interested in your thoughts, especially if I’m part of the problem right now.

I also don’t know what condoms have to do with pregnancy care. I don’t think they would play any part in how they work here.

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Howl

The crisis is that a woman wants to terminate her pregnancy and they will do anything to stop her.  The crisis pregnancy centers prey on vulnerable women, who may not have the resources to access a regular medical clinic, or, more to the point, the crisis pregnancy centers are pretending to be a helpful medical clinic. 

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formergothardite
8 minutes ago, Pammy said:

As a Canadian, pregnant women do not come to a centre for medical help with the pregnancy itself... they come for help whatever the “crisis” is. (ie poverty, homelessness, family stress, mental health, etc.)

Things might be different in Canada. Here many of the Crisis Centers are making it appear like they would be the place to get an abortion, but instead they lie and manipulate the women to keep them from having an abortion. 

10 minutes ago, Pammy said:

They have been accused of being overly dramatic in exaggerating aspects of abortion (which staff generally believe to be true).

I would say that yes, that is a problem. Women are going to hear their options and instead are not being told the entire truth. I noticed when looking at the CPC websites for NC that while they make a huge deal about all the things that might happen during an abortion, they do not list the things that might happen to a woman during a pregnancy. The websites make it seem like abortions are extremely dangerous while pregnancy won't cause health problems, when the studies show that abortion is actually safer. 

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PennySycamore

@Pammy, condoms are not helpful when a woman is already pregnant, but the pregnant woman does need to know how to prevent another crisis pregnancy.  IOW, they need accurate information about birth control.  They almost never get that at a PCP.

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Bretta

Thanks for sharing. John Oliver is always a great watch. Now, why CPCs don't offer reliable and free birth control is beyond me. 

Fundies... expect everyone to conform to their way of life. I'm thinking most women in the situation aren't going to become fundies - basically fully abstinent as singles and unboundedly procreative as married women (who get to stay at home). There are women of all career types and with all kinds of backgrounds... but fundies only think of women as virgin daughters or subservient wives. That's all. Not women who have been mistreated, women with serious financial or medical issues, women from anything less than affluent backgrounds... women who are TOO young... EVEN if they do become abstinent fundies, most of them would be considered inferior to the "real" fundie women with perfect track records. So.... yeah.

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Georgiana
42 minutes ago, Pammy said:

I’m kinda feeling “not all crisis pregnancy centres” — maybe I need to take a moment and check myself.

As a Canadian, pregnant women do not come to a centre for medical help with the pregnancy itself... they come for help whatever the “crisis” is. (ie poverty, homelessness, family stress, mental health, etc.)

The centres are interested in discouraging abortion, and will emphasize almost anything else as an alternative for an abortion-minded woman. They have been accused of being overly dramatic in exaggerating aspects of abortion (which staff generally believe to be true).

These things are problematic, but I’m not sure if they are as deeply problematic when a woman has come “to talk” about solving her crisis — when she could have easily just gotten neutral healthcare at a medical clinic without cost or inconvenience. (The pregnancy care centre wouldn’t be providing medical services anyways.)

Doesn’t that imply that she has sought out the services she wanted? 

I’m interested in your thoughts, especially if I’m part of the problem right now.

I also don’t know what condoms have to do with pregnancy care. I don’t think they would play any part in how they work here.

I think the issue is that you assume that the women who go to CPCs are aware of what they are.  I can tell you that in many areas of the US, that is not the case. Many CPCs go to great lengths to APPEAR like a neutral health clinic to lure women in.  Many areas of the country have next to no access to neutral health clinics, especially for low income women.  CPCs then swoop in to pick them up.

Make no mistake.  They know what they are doing.  And it is, 100% predatory.  They are designed SPECIFICALLY to compete with actual health clinics like Planned Parenthood.  Their main goal is to entice women to go to them INSTEAD of a neutral clinic SO THAT the woman does not get informed about abortion.  

They want to take away her right to an informed decision regarding the pregnancy.  That's why they exist.  

And because of this, these centers generally DO NOT address the crisis a woman is going through.  They do not address her concerns regarding housing, safety, food, etc.  They have one goal: to get the woman to carry the fetus past when she can legally obtain an abortion.  

In many cases, they make her crisis WORSE.  In many cases, they LIE about her options, options that may in fact resolve her crisis.  They have NO INTEREST in helping the woman.  That's literally not their goal nor is it their function.  They are there to see that this woman continues her pregnancy, often by whatever means necessary.

By naming themselves as "Crisis Pregnancy Centers" they deliberately prey on vulnerable women.  Their methods, again, are not designed to help, but rather to scare and guilt.  They don't offer help with obtaining housing to a pregnant woman who cannot safely be pregnant in her home.  They don't offer help obtaining grocery aid for women who may not know how they will feed an additional mouth.  They don't offer financial assistance for woman who may need to quit their job to go on bedrest due to the pregnancy or who may have trouble with this costs of the pregnancy.

Who volunteers at CPCs?  Women like Jill Rodrigues.  That should tell you a little bit about what these organizations offer in terms of knowledgeable help and tact.  And their volunteers believe they are "saving babies".  They only care about the fetus.  The mother's health, safety, and future are completely discarded.  

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Rachel333

Doesn't Jinger and Jeremy's church run a CPC too?

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Pammy
2 hours ago, Georgiana said:

I think the issue is that you assume that the women who go to CPCs are aware of what they are.  I can tell you that in many areas of the US, that is not the case. Many CPCs go to great lengths to APPEAR like a neutral health clinic to lure women in.  Many areas of the country have next to no access to neutral health clinics, especially for low income women.  CPCs then swoop in to pick them up.

Make no mistake.  They know what they are doing.  And it is, 100% predatory.  They are designed SPECIFICALLY to compete with actual health clinics like Planned Parenthood.  Their main goal is to entice women to go to them INSTEAD of a neutral clinic SO THAT the woman does not get informed about abortion.  

They want to take away her right to an informed decision regarding the pregnancy.  That's why they exist.  

And because of this, these centers generally DO NOT address the crisis a woman is going through.  They do not address her concerns regarding housing, safety, food, etc.  They have one goal: to get the woman to carry the fetus past when she can legally obtain an abortion.  

In many cases, they make her crisis WORSE.  In many cases, they LIE about her options, options that may in fact resolve her crisis.  They have NO INTEREST in helping the woman.  That's literally not their goal nor is it their function.  They are there to see that this woman continues her pregnancy, often by whatever means necessary.

By naming themselves as "Crisis Pregnancy Centers" they deliberately prey on vulnerable women.  Their methods, again, are not designed to help, but rather to scare and guilt.  They don't offer help with obtaining housing to a pregnant woman who cannot safely be pregnant in her home.  They don't offer help obtaining grocery aid for women who may not know how they will feed an additional mouth.  They don't offer financial assistance for woman who may need to quit their job to go on bedrest due to the pregnancy or who may have trouble with this costs of the pregnancy.

Who volunteers at CPCs?  Women like Jill Rodrigues.  That should tell you a little bit about what these organizations offer in terms of knowledgeable help and tact.  And their volunteers believe they are "saving babies".  They only care about the fetus.  The mother's health, safety, and future are completely discarded.  

That’s very interesting, and I’m trusting you that it’s accurate. I’m finding myself surprised at how my national context changes both the function and the focus of these “centres”.

It would be very difficult for a private enterprise to convincingly mimic our government provided healthcare locations. I’ve never seen a CPC try to do that. They are openly “counselling centres” to help women talk through their “options” in response to a crisis pregnancy. They are all over housing, groceries, responses to abuse, baby clothes, parenting resources etc.

I’m saying, of course they are totally out to save the baby, but the focus is on care for the family unit. They don’t “discuss options” in a fair and unbiased manner. They do try to provide anything / everything to convince the pregnant woman not to abort. They do want to “save babies” — but the mother is a big part of carrying and caring for the child right?

The ‘scare and guilt’ is very much present, but it seems to me that the freedom to obtain a perfectly normal abortion in a very direct manner means that women who come in to a CPC to “talk” and “get practical help” are not being deceived into imagining they will receive some other service.

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candygirl200413

The woman who was quoted as talking about how condoms are like 50% effective is in the documentary called Jackson (I've talked about it a few times on FJ) is a much watch documentary about Mississippi's last abortion clinic in the entire state. I think it's on starz currently?

I also need to contact my state senator or someone in my congress in regards to learning that we're one of the few that fund CPC's (I'm assuming it was something from my previous governor who was a repubilcan since our current is a democrat and very pro-woman)

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Alisamer
18 minutes ago, Pammy said:

That’s very interesting, and I’m trusting you that it’s accurate. I’m finding myself surprised at how my national context changes both the function and the focus of these “centres”.

It would be very difficult for a private enterprise to convincingly mimic our government provided healthcare locations. I’ve never seen a CPC try to do that. They are openly “counselling centres” to help women talk through their “options” in response to a crisis pregnancy. They are all over housing, groceries, responses to abuse, baby clothes, parenting resources etc....

You have to remember, in the US there is no nationalized healthcare. So, you find yourself a doctor (that takes your insurance, preferably) and go to them. BUT, they generally don't do abortions, especially if you're far enough along to need a surgical abortion. And most insurance won't pay for them, either, I think.

So if you went to your doctor and they confirmed your pregnancy (you will pay for this visit and tests, at least in part), and you told them you wanted an abortion, chances are they would tell you to go to a clinic that does abortions. If there is one in your state. There might not be. If there is, it might be several hours away. And once you go to the clinic and fight your way past the screaming protestors that often hang out there, the doctors at the clinic might be required to do an ultrasound and tell you state-government mandated lies about the "potential negative effects" of having an abortion. And you might have to wait 24-48 hours to come back and have the abortion actually done. So travel, hotel room, costs of two visits to the clinic, meals while you're away from home...

And, you'll almost certainly have to pay for all of this out of pocket. Planned Parenthood has a sliding scale, but they're being defunded all over.

But hey, there's this big billboard with a black and white photo of a worried looking young woman that says "Pregnant? We can help!" So you go there, and it LOOKS like a medical clinic! 

But it's not. It's so not. They won't tell you it isn't, they'll take you in for a "consult" and probably have you pee on a stick to "confirm" your pregnancy, but their job is to convince you not to have an abortion. They may give you pamphlets on adoption, they probably will give you pamphlets filled with untruths about how horrible abortion is, and they may give you a pack of diapers and a onesie or two, maybe even a formula sample, but thats pretty much it. If you end up giving birth, they've done their job. Baby born drug-addicted? At least it was born. Mom working 3 jobs and never sees the baby? Born! Not aborted! They won't help with birth control, either, because keep your legs closed!

I luckily haven't had to deal with this situation myself, but I know people who have and it makes me ragey. Crisis Pregnancy Centers take advantage of vulnerable women. 

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formergothardite
1 hour ago, Pammy said:

They are openly “counselling centres” to help women talk through their “options” in response to a crisis pregnancy.

It sounds like there is still a big problem with them. You put options in quotes because it is clear they don't really help women think about options. Even in magical Canada(please adopt us! America needs a new parent) the way these things are run are a problem. 

Consider this scenario, a woman finds herself pregnant, she is conflicted about having an abortion, but is leaning towards it because she isn't ready for pregnancy, childbirth and a baby. She sees this place that claims they will counsel her about her options. She goes to a CPC and instead of providing real counseling they tell her lies and propaganda about abortion. Maybe they actually believe the shit they are peddling, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they are spreading lies. So this woman ends up making an important life decision based on propaganda and guilt. I highly doubt the people seeking counseling at CPCs know that they will be lied to. These are vulnerable women dealing with a crisis and the CPCs prey on them. 

Interestingly, someone already looked at Canadian crisis pregnancy centers and listed all the problems they found with their websites. 

http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/CPC-study/CPC-Website-Study-ARCC-2016.pdf

Quote

The Life Centre in Goderich, Ontario (#93) has detailed information on their “Abortion” page asserting a proven link to breast cancer – despite the medical consensus that there is no link. “

 

Quote

The Pregnancy Centre in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario (#136) provides a simple list of physical abortion complications as if they are fact: “Infection, Heavy bleeding, Damage to the cervix or uterus, Increased risk of infertility, Increased risk of future miscarriage, Increased risk of premature births.” There is no qualifying information that the first three complications are rare, or that full-term pregnancy and childbirth carries far greater medical risks. Further, the alleged risks of infertility, future miscarriage, and future premature birth are all scientifically unfounded when it comes to safe and legal abortion.

 

Quote

The Kawartha Lakes Pregnancy Centre in Lindsay, Ontario (#109) says on their website: “Abortion has long term effects of sorrow, grief and guilt. It leaves wounds that tear at our very fabric, that scab over but never heal, and undermine our relationships with others.” This description leaves the strong impression that such effects are not only real, but happen with every abortion. No indication is given that very few women suffer these types of serious long-term psychological effects after abortion, or that if they do, other factors in the woman’s life are likely to be contributing factors or even the main cause.

Quote

: The Okanagan Valley Pregnancy Care Centre in Kelowna, British Columbia (#31) actually says that women may become psychotic after having an abortion, as well as not be able to bond with other children.

 

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Pammy
4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

It sounds like there is still a big problem with them. You put options in quotes because it is clear they don't really help women think about options. Even in magical Canada(please adopt us! America needs a new parent) the way these things are run are a problem. 

Consider this scenario, a woman finds herself pregnant, she is conflicted about having an abortion, but is leaning towards it because she isn't ready for pregnancy, childbirth and a baby. She sees this place that claims they will counsel her about her options. She goes to a CPC and instead of providing real counseling they tell her lies and propaganda about abortion. Maybe they actually believe the shit they are peddling, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they are spreading lies. So this woman ends up making an important life decision based on propaganda and guilt. I highly doubt the people seeking counseling at CPCs know that they will be lied to. These are vulnerable women dealing with a crisis and the CPCs prey on them. 

Interestingly, someone already looked at Canadian crisis pregnancy centers and listed all the problems they found with their websites. 

http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/CPC-study/CPC-Website-Study-ARCC-2016.pdf

 

 

 

This I completely agree with. I was just surprised that these problems are not the norm when discussing CPCs in an American context.

To me the (Canadian) problem of poorly informed volunteers swaying the choices of indecisive pregnant women who willingly came in for a chat (when they already knew where to go to if they had already decided on an abortion) is one thing. It needs work, because it’s not OK. Real decisions require real information, but counselling is not actually unethical in-and-of-itself.

The idea of the apparent (American) problem of falsely implying an offer of valuable medical services to pregnant women, providing nothing, and washing their hands after simply causing the woman to delay her actions until her legal options evaporate — that feels quite different.

It also disturbs me that the medical costs of pregnancy, childbirth, and abortion are all significant financial crisises in their own right in America. A woman can literally not be safe and sexually active at the same time in your society — unless she is above the middle class, or unless she is rescued by a charity. It’s a situation that (to a large degree) creates its own victims.

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Lurky

What upsets me most are the ones that pretend they offer abortion as an option, but will find different delaying tactics (giving her an appointment in 2 weeks time, but it turns out to be a 'counselling' session form an untrained person pushing misinformation/lies, but it's ok, the appointment is in 10 days - but that's a meeting with an adoption broker, etc etc) until it's too late for her to get an abortion locally. 

But what upsets me most is that they'll promise the moon on a stick to pregnant women, to try to get them to keep the baby, and then cut them off at 6 months/a year, with no support at all, because after all, those sluts deserve the punishment for having sex, and "pro life" only counts until birth, and who cares if the child  will suffer for the rest of its life, because the only important thing is that it's born.

(Don't even get me started on people who are "pro life" but not campaigning against the death penalty/for universal health care/against war/against gun control etc etc)

Edited by Lurky
SOTDRT is infectious
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Hane

I wouldn’t be surprised if many of these places serve in large part to help build a “supply” of healthy babies for childless Good Christian Couples to adopt: Give desperate mothers minimal help, wait till they can’t hack it anymore, and then offer to facilitate “Adoption: The Loving Option” (pro-life slogan).

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dramallama

If you haven't seen it, watch the documentary "12th & Delaware" on HBO GO/HBO NOW.  The filmmakers go inside an abortion clinic and the crisis pregnancy center across the street from it.  

Edited by dramallama

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Rachel333
7 minutes ago, Hane said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if many of these places serve in large part to help build a “supply” of healthy babies for childless Good Christian Couples to adopt: Give desperate mothers minimal help, wait till they can’t hack it anymore, and then offer to facilitate “Adoption: The Loving Option” (pro-life slogan).

Some of them absolutely do, and it's something I wish John Oliver had gone into

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December
16 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I just finished watching it. It is amazing how they can just openly lie and there are no laws stopping it. 

The only thing more amazing is how some places there are laws that encourage it! 

10 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@Pammy, condoms are not helpful when a woman is already pregnant, but the pregnant woman does need to know how to prevent another crisis pregnancy.  IOW, they need accurate information about birth control.  They almost never get that at a PCP.

This. It's about portraying abstinence as the only option and unintended pregnancy as an inevitable consequence. Helping people learn about and access effective contraceptive methods which work for their needs/lifestyle doesn't really fit that narrative... 

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AliceInFundyland
2 hours ago, dramallama said:

If you haven't seen it, watch the documentary "12th & Delaware" on HBO GO/HBO NOW.  The filmmakers go inside an abortion clinic and the crisis pregnancy center across the street from it.  

Thanks for the recommend.

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