Are you watching this unfold on FB?

[MerryHappy]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/To-Train ... 0609296102

To Train Up A Child, by Michael and Debi Pearl

Due to a change of heart by the admin, this page will be deleted in 24 hours. I only leave it up that long for this message to be read. I encourage all who genuinely like this page to reconsider and think about your actions. This book is NOT biblical. The older my children get the more I realize that I have failed them by following even a few of the principles encouraged by this book.

[debrand]

Bravo! I am so happy. :clap:

[WanderingStar]

I found To Train Up A Child online once and decided to read it purely for shock value because of all the crazy things I'd heard about it. I think I was more appalled than I ever thought I would be by it. I hate the thought of anyone trying to ban a book but considering that it's lead to three children (and maybe even more) dying, I'm all for that one being banned and am so glad the owner of that page has realized how wretched that book really is. Barnes & Noble stopped carrying it a while back, now maybe places like Amazon will drop the title!

[celestial]

Yay!!! :D

[emmyfair]

Wow! While I'm pleased to see these people come to their senses, I'm sad to see it's a bit late; their children have already been subjected to the Pearls sick methods, and these parents have to live for the rest of their lives with what they've done.

I wish them peace and much healing.

[Guest Anonymous]

Totally cool!

[Effie]

Wow. This is good news. Although tragical that the parent couldn't see how wrong she was before the damage was done. "The older my children get the more I realize that I have failed them by following even a few of the principles encouraged by this book."

[FaustianSlip]

I found To Train Up A Child online once and decided to read it purely for shock value because of all the crazy things I'd heard about it. I think I was more appalled than I ever thought I would be by it.

That was pretty much my reaction, actually. I also found it online and read it, mostly because I felt like I should read it before condemning it, and it was awful. The thing is, I can kind of see how some parents get seduced into following it; the pictures that the book paints, of a quaint, rural life reminiscent of "the good old days" (I don't think the Pearls' allusions to the Amish are accidental), the idea of perfectly-behaved, smilingly obedient children.... Any parent would like that, but especially parents who are dealing with particularly difficult kids and feel like they're at the end of their tether. It's sick, what the Pearls are doing. They're trading on false hope and parental desperation in order to peddle child abuse.

[Rosa]

I wonder about the reading comprehension of all the people saying "The Pearls advocate spanking, not beating" though.

More and more I can't even handle regular spanking discussions because people will be "agreeing" with each other when some mean an occasional bare-hand smack over pants and some mean beating with a belt or a piece of pipe.

[Effie]

Wow, look at this crazy:

Andra Willmon Hoots

Ummm...if any of you have actually read the Old Testament, how many times did God send armies out after Israel to turn them back to His Will? How many times did He send out the Death Angel to kill people who had disobeyed Him? And then you say, "Don't use violence?" A spanking is NOT a beating! A spanking is a small amount of pain that shows that Bad Actions reap Painful Consequences. God said to TRAIN UP A CHILD. If you don't like it, then you won't like Heaven because God is in control there, too, and all do His Will at all times. Guess I won't be seeing ya'll there!

More crazy:

Nett Penner

Like somebody already said!! GROW UP!! This world is as corrupted as it is cause kids have been "loved" n NOT disciplined!! You can still love them even if you train them!!

[slickcat79]

Wow, look at this crazy:

Yeah, that would be one of the major reasons that I left christianity. Who wants to worship a god who's that much of a dick? And her definition of heaven sounds more like a concentration camp.

She may be right that spanking is not always beating...but hitting infants with plumbing line certainly is :roll:

[MrsYoungie]

Same problem as always: they seem to think there is no middle ground between beating your children for every real or imagined infraction and having feral children. They need to get out more and see the many well behaved children who have never had any more than a wrist slap when they were 2 and about to grab a knife or touch a hot stove. Some may never have even had that.

[Austin]

I don't have a FB, so could not view much of this, so I asked my son if I could use his account to login and view more of it. So for others who are wary of social media as I am, this is what I can determine from reading a bit there.

The FB owner (is that the right word?) previously was an ethusiastic Pearl follower. I could not determine her name, but this is what she wrote in the Basic Information section describing the purpose of her site:

Basic Information

About - As goes the child so goes the future adult—and the future parent. At every moment, parents holding little children are holding the future.

Company Overview - No Greater Joy is the ministry of Michael & Debi Pearl under the auspices of No Greater Joy Ministries Inc. Michael has been a pastor, missionary, and evangelist for 40 years. The Pearls have 5 children, all homeschooled. They have grown up to become missionaries and church leaders. Though holding a BS from Crichton College, when Michael is asked for his credentials on child training he points to his five children.

Mission - Through books and tapes, the Pearls are training parents to break the bad habits passed down from former generations and to recognize and emulate the wisdom of those who have gone before. The Bible and common sense are the foundations for effective parenting.

Website http://www.nogreaterjoy.org

She has thankfully had a change of heart and now realizes that this book promotes child abuse or harmful to children and has expressed her change of heart on her FB page:

Due to a change of heart by the admin, this page will be deleted in 24 hours. I only leave it up that long for this message to be read. I encourage all who genuinely like this page to reconsider and think about your actions. This book is NOT biblical. The older my children get the more I realize that I have failed them by following even a few of the principles encouraged by this book.

She does not (that I could find) specifically indicate what brought about this change of heart, but she did add this:

Thank you so much for all your encouraging words. I will consider leaving the page up in order to prevent someone else from using the name. In the future, if I leave it up, I will try to post links to positive parenting ideas and maybe eventually share my story. For now I will leave the page silent. Again, thank you for your encouragement and advice.

I hope she will post about how she went from a Pearl supporter to feeling negatively about the book because I think it helps people who are in that mindset but feel a niggling doubt about it and are just searching for some way to start thinking in a new way. But she doesn't indicate one way or another if she will post about that (again, that I could find).

As is the usual case, I find the comments to be as intriguing as any post, so I'll post some of those here. These are some from Pearls' supporters, but I have to say, the majority were quite positive about this mother's change of heart and were very encouraging to her, and I was very glad to see that.

One exchange:

Suzanne May Those of you who are against spanking-here is a question-how come the parents I see who have children who are mean, unkind and totally out of control, are the ones who are so against spanking?

40 minutes ago · LikeUnlike

Suzanne May spanking is not wrong, but yelling and screaming and being harsh is. If people cannot spank without being harsh, they should not spank.

25 minutes ago · LikeUnlike

Katlyn Hudgins Suzanne... can you see Jesus spanking a baby?

20 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Suzanne May sure, why not?

17 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Suzanne May who do you think inspired the authors of the Bible to write Proverbs? It was Jesus!

17 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Katlyn Hudgins The rod is Aarons rod... not a rod to hit with but as a measuring stick and to keep sheep together. Its a sheperds stick not a hitting stick. If you can see Jesus spanking a baby you may want to revisit the bible. He was gentle with children and even when adults were trying to get them to be quiet and get away from Jesus he wanted them near.

12 minutes ago · LikeUnlike

Suzanne May But this is what JEsus said-"Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them."

9 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Kerrie McKenzie I was once told that my kids were only 'so good' because they feared us and that they need to be raised with 'love'...funny when I asked my kids (16 &17) if they feared us they burst into laughter and assured me that they loved us! I liked the book and believe there is a massive difference between a spanking and a beating and I don't believe the Pearls were advocating beating! 8 hours ago · LikeUnlike

Nett Penner Children shouldn't be beaten, but they should definitely be disciplined! My parents spanked me n I love them the more for it!! I can always tell a difference if kids rule the house or if the parents are in control!! Kids who have been disciplined are much better behaved n are a lot more fun to have around!! I have lots of nephews n nieces n all of those who are being disciplined are much calmer n nicer to have around!!

11 hours ago · LikeUnlike

Nett Penner Like somebody already said!! GROW UP!! This world is as corrupted as it is cause kids have been "loved" n NOT disciplined!! You can still love them even if you train them!!

11 hours ago · LikeUnlike

JoAnna M. Gavlik I love the principals in this book, I've learned to truly enjoy my children by including them in my daily activities. The Pearls are very wise indeed. But I'm also happy to know that this page is being deleted. The ignorance of all the haters has been getting to me.

16 hours ago · LikeUnlike

Andra Willmon Hoots Ummm...if any of you have actually read the Old Testament, how many times did God send armies out after Israel to turn them back to His Will? How many times did He send out the Death Angel to kill people who had disobeyed Him? And then you say, "Don't use violence?" A spanking is NOT a beating! A spanking is a small amount of pain that shows that Bad Actions reap Painful Consequences. God said to TRAIN UP A CHILD. If you don't like it, then you won't like Heaven because God is in control there, too, and all do His Will at all times. Guess I won't be seeing ya'll there!

17 hours ago · LikeUnlike

Andra Willmon Hoots The don't "whip babies", they swat them. There is a MAJOR difference! Use your intelligence, not your pitiful feelings. Actually READ the BOOK for what it is! Cheez-Louise, people! GROW UP!

17 hours ago · LikeUnlike ·

[docmom]

What bothered me most (and believe me all of it bothered me) about TTUAC was the description of the little girl "switching" her doll and Michael Pearl's fond observations on what a good mommy this little girl was going to be. That is some seriously scary, sick stuff. If heaven is like this, then I won't be upset about being left out.

[TVR]

I can't even "Like" the page, because there is NO WAY I want TVR likes To Train Up a Child in my news feed!!!

[finleeport]

This page is great! but if this goes on, why haven't the Pearls been arrested? why can't anyone sue them or why haven't the authorities done anything to the Pearls? clearly what they're doing is child abuse.

[Buzzard]

Theres a new "pro" page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/To-Train ... 0824565146

I REALLY want to comment about their body count...

[Kitty]

Theres a new "pro" page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/To-Train ... 0824565146

I REALLY want to comment about their body count...

Do it. Or I will.

[formergothardite]

. I urge everyone to stay away from the page posing to be the same as this one. It is ran by mostly Atheists and parents who are against spanking.

This made me :lol: .

[Kitty]

I've already reported the page. I don't think FB will do shit though, but I can hope. They advocate violence, why not report it?

They've deleted all criticism though. I did threaten to report everyone who posted to their local CPS...

[slickcat79]

Suzanne May But this is what JEsus said-"Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them."

9 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

That's from Proverbs, right? If it's in the old testament, Jesus didn't say shit. I mean, aren't they the proverbs of Solomon?

[Trynn]

That's from Proverbs, right? If it's in the old testament, Jesus didn't say shit. I mean, aren't they the proverbs of Solomon?

Yeah, but the argument is that scripture was inspired by God, and God and Jesus are the same person. (Trinity.)

If they're arguing that Jesus said it when he was on earth, then they would be wrong, because that's just not the case.

[Effie]

Wow... I think I know who started this new page. Perhaps some could reason with her. She looks fairly young. http://www.facebook.com/mbritb

She said that she would start a new page, so it could be she who did. Or Brittney Karamalisho?

[jenny_islander]

But "the rod" was a big stick. As in big enough to use for a walking stick--big enough to kill somebody.

Or else it was a metaphor for authority. You know, like we say "the White House says . . . " when we mean "people working for the President announced that . . . " and nobody actually thinks that a building is talking.

But fundamentalism is allergic to metaphors. And Lydia Schatz is dead.

[Austin]

Wow... I think I know who started this new page. Perhaps some could reason with her. She looks fairly young. http://www.facebook.com/mbritb

She said that she would start a new page, so it could be she who did. Or Brittney Karamalisho?

Why do you believe it is this person? What do you know about her? (just trying to piece this all together)