Whitney and Zach Bates - Part 3

[RosyDaisy]

IME, racists cannot be reasoned with. It usually takes a crisis or a loss for them to question their beliefs and opinions.

[Snarkle Motion]

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 7:15 PM, RosyDaisy said:

IME, racists cannot be reasoned with. It usually takes a crisis or a loss for them to question their beliefs and opinions.

I believe anyone can change. Its not going to happen after one interaction or debate, and older people tend to be more resistant to change but are still capable.

While I don't think we are anywhere near where we should be, it is kind of remarkable how much has changed in a matter of decades. My parents lived through times when women were told sports could damage their fertility and women were forbidden from running marathons, homosexuality was considered a disease by the medical community, and black people were forbidden from using bathrooms with white people. I've seen family members opinions drastically shift on LGBTQ issues in he last decades. 

I encourage everyone to watch this Ted talk:

https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left/up-next

I'm not religious and was raised mostly Jewish but isn't it a "Christian thing" to show compassion even to those that hate? And not to judge others, love the sinner hate the sin. Clearly we must judge intolerant behavior but judge them to be unchangeable. I think it's the humane thing to do and more effective a shifting beliefs.  Part of what I do is to study behavior change and how to shift opinions and actions. This Ted talk does a great job of summarizing some of the psychological principles from an extremely reputable scientist:

https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_can_a_divided_america_heal/up-next#t-737637

 

[MarblesMom]

On 8/12/2017 at 7:48 PM, crazysnark said:

He wanted to appeal to the vets/ blue collar type people.

Can I just say I am offended by this generalization of the American public?

What is the definition of "vets/blue collar type people", exactly?

(Why does "you people" keep screaming in my brain?)

[seraaa]

5 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

Can I just say I am offended by this generalization of the American public?

What is the definition of "vets/blue collar type people", exactly?

(Why does "you people" keep screaming in my brain?)

The assumption that working class people will inevitably be more racist than the general population is kind of classist. The Republican Party didn't target the southern strategy at the white working class alone.

Racists also wear business suits. 

That said, Trump definitely did position himself as a kind of champion of the 'left-behind' in this past election.

[SilverBeach]

On 8/12/2017 at 7:39 PM, Destiny said:

You don't have a right to tell POC to chill on topics that relate to racism and slavery, because you don't understand and never can understand the experience of being black in america. (neither do I, for the record, because I'm the whitest possible white person). 

To use an analogy, to me, it's no different than a man telling women to chill about feminist issues. They don't understand the experience of being a woman, so they don't get to tell me, as a woman, to chill about the various problems I have had due to sexism. 

Also, no one ever said you couldn't have an opinion, you were told that the expression of chill related to people's feelings on racial issues was insensitive, which it absolutely is, given that you have never walked any miles in those shoes. 

100 percent on point. I never told this person that she could not have her opinion, I expressed an opinion about her opinion, that it was not cool. Totally different things.

I found attempting to interact with this poster exhausting and fruitless, so I chose not to do so anymore. Thanks to the rest of you all for continuing to point out the obvious, but this poster wishes to remain willfully ignorant. So, bye-bye to her and her whitesplaining.

[SilverBeach]

On 13/08/2017 at 11:57 AM, VelociRapture said:

@Snarkle MotionNo worries at all! Being passionate about things that are important is a really good thing. I just wanted to offer an explanation for why people may say what I wrote.

Thank you for sharing that! It was a pretty interesting article. I had some reservations about the show when I first heard about it. This article did an excellent job at breaking down why I felt that way when why I didn't feel that ah about Man in the High Castle (which is a fantastic and really well done show.)

We are all pretty passionate on here, I know I am. Nothing wrong with that at all if you are reasonable too. 

The article was excellent. Something that seems difficult for many non-minorities to accept is that my perspective is different than yours, even if we live next door to each other. My experiences are different. So for you to judge my perspective is invalid.

It's interesting with Man in the High Castle because the Germans still felt that the Japanese were inferior and plotted to eradicate their power altogether. There is no compromise with racism, oppression, and hate. It must be called out, in no uncertain terms, for the ugliness it is. The fact that the presidunce has not done so speaks volumes about him and those who still support him.

It still amazes me that anyone as uncivil, crude, misogynistic, and racist as Drumpf was seen by anyone as being fit for the highest office of the land. Grabbing pussies? Really? Evangelicals were OK with that? Anybody was more fit for duty than the Tangerine Toddler.

Folks who voted for Trump seem proud of it. Well, I voted for HRC and I am proud of it. At least I didn't contribute to the country going to hell in a handbasket.

[Carm_88]

Whitney is posting on Instagram with Kaci Lynn, they are totally normal.

[WhoompThereItIs]

hallelujah, no big ass bow!

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Whitney is posting on Instagram with Kaci Lynn, they are totally normal.

Anyone surprised that the Bateses have said exactly nothing about Charlottesville or the President's response? Anyone? Anyone? 

[Snarkle Motion]

48 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Anyone surprised that the Bateses have said exactly nothing about Charlottesville or the President's response? Anyone? Anyone? 

I'd also like to see a post from at least one of the Bates condemning the violence. Even Derick was able to muster at least that much. The Bates have never definitively distanced themselves from some of these beliefs and I believe they had a picture of a KKK leader in their house. The family being okay with Nathan courting Ashley is really the only evidence I've seen so far.

It would be nice for the rest of the family to take  stand as "Christians" and southerners who could be viewed as respected and influential community leaders denouncing these attitudes and actions. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[candygirl200413]

My evangelical church didn't either so I'm sadly not surprised.

Also I think she's bow-less because her hair is getting longer. I was actually surprised how Kaci Lynn is coming in blond, but I guess could Zack be seen as a dirty blond?

[Carm_88]

I am completely shocked that the family who had a picture of the leader of the KKK and a shrine to the Confederacy would not issue a statement condemning racism...LOL

[VelociRapture]

@Snarkle MotionExactly. 

I feel like white Americans, in general, should very much be speaking out against this. Even those of us who didn't vote Trump. As horrible and unfair as it is, the reality is that these assholes are speaking for every white person and its our responsibility to make it clear that we are disgusted by their words and actions.

Black people, Hispanic people, Asian people, Jews.... they've been screaming at us to do so for years and so many of us have ignored them because the racism wasn't as blatant as it is right now. Every white American has a responsibility here. But white Trump supporters especially have this responsibility. And people like the Bateses who have a seriously questionable past with racism absolutely need to be shouting it out if they disagree with the white supremacists. In my opinion, their failure to do so speaks volumes about their current beliefs.

[feministxtian]

WOW!!! 

To @crazysnark - your support of the cheeto tells me everything I need to know about you. You supported an openly racist "candidate" who made his feelings on Middle Eastern people and especially MY people known...and it was not nice. He characterized those of us who came to the US "sin papeles" as rapists and murderers. My mother never raped or murdered anyone (she had plenty of other faults but not those). The "men" you support have spoken about stripping ME of MY citizenship because my mother was an illegal immigrant. 

So..Fuck you. Fuck you hard with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire. 

[Carm_88]

Whitney continues to post about how cute her kids are.

[VelociRapture]

4 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Whitney continues to post about how cute her kids are.

And continues her silence on the hatred and evil the man she voted for is fostering in this country. 

I know! I know! I sound like a broken fucking record. But the Bateses (and especially Whitney) are ridiculously good at glossing this shit over. 

[VineHeart137]

To be fair, I've never gotten the impression that Whitney is particularly bright... I'm honestly not sure that she has the capacity to put serious thought into much else beyond "I love my kids and husband." Even her motivation for voting Trump was literally just "HE'LL SAVE THE BABIES!!" Jesus, headships, and babies (ETA: and cute clothes), that's all life is about.

But I mean, she's really pretty though.

[VelociRapture]

58 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

To be fair, I've never gotten the impression that Whitney is particularly bright... I'm honestly not sure that she has the capacity to put serious thought into much else beyond "I love my kids and husband." Even her motivation for voting Trump was literally just "HE'LL SAVE THE BABIES!!" Jesus, headships, and babies (ETA: and cute clothes), that's all life is about.

But I mean, she's really pretty though.

This is exactly what went through my mind at that last part you wrote:

I get what you're saying. But I just don't feel it's right to give any of them the benefit of the doubt anymore or make excuses for them. Whitney is a married mother of two. She's an adult. She clearly has access to the internet and she wasn't raised in this specific cult. If she honestly doesn't know about what's going on then she's willfully ignorant and if she does know (and hasn't spoken out) then she simply doesn't care - and there's just no excuse for not caring about the safety and welfare of other people when white supremacists are marching in broad tiki light.

[VineHeart137]

Oh I absolutely agree. Being kind of dumb (possibly) definitely doesn't exempt anyone from being a terrible person. You don't have to have a genius IQ to express empathy for others and to educate yourself, and as you said she certainly has the resources to do so if she ever took the time to think about something other than herself and her small bubble. I just don't think it comes naturally to her to think about and/or comment on issues that are more complex than what goes on in her personal day-to-day life.

You're right, that's not an excuse though, she COULD if she actually wanted to, but apparently she doesn't which is what makes her and the rest of her family a bunch of asshats, no matter how many people like to claim her (or Erin or Alyssa or any Bates) as their "pet fundie", whatever that really means.

[nickelodeon]

Erasing shit, covering shit up, and pointedly ignoring shit that is incredibly apparent to everyone else is what the Bates do.* Of course they're pretending Charlottesville didn't happen.

*(See: Erin avoiding posting anything about attending her sister-in-law's marriage to a rapist; Kelly scrubbing her blog; Gil and, you know, HIS ENTIRE ROLE AT IBLP.)

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

You're right, that's not an excuse though, she COULD if she actually wanted to, but apparently she doesn't which is what makes her and the rest of her family a bunch of asshats,

Exactly, you can tell a lot about these folks by not only what they say, but what they refuse to say. They may not be as open as Derick with the hate, but I have no doubt they are just as hateful. 

[Teaistheway]

I despair of a lot of the young fundie women we follow, they seem so shallow; overly concerned with appearances and showing off on social media with  little evidence they ever think for themselves or have any interest in the wider world.  

They would do well to take some time to actually read the Bible, especially the Jesus bits, and reflect on how the concern expressed there for the poor, the sick and those on the edges of society fits in with their hate filled views,  voting for Trump and image obsessed lifestyles.

[SamiKatz]

5 hours ago, feministxtian said:

WOW!!! 

To @crazysnark - your support of the cheeto tells me everything I need to know about you. You supported an openly racist "candidate" who made his feelings on Middle Eastern people and especially MY people known...and it was not nice. He characterized those of us who came to the US "sin papeles" as rapists and murderers. My mother never raped or murdered anyone (she had plenty of other faults but not those). The "men" you support have spoken about stripping ME of MY citizenship because my mother was an illegal immigrant. 

So..Fuck you. Fuck you hard with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire. 

I was with you until the last line.  My opinion only of course but I think that's really extreme and I found it disturbing.  And I disagree with @crazysnark's views in every way, shape or form.

[Snarkle Motion]

28 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

I was with you until the last line.  My opinion only of course but I think that's really extreme and I found it disturbing.  And I disagree with @crazysnark's views in every way, shape or form.

Agreed. If this country is going to heal we need to maintain empathy and civility for the other side. Threats of violence, while maybe not literal, are not okay because that's where escalation begins. We must be better than this. 

[FundieFarmer]

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Exactly, you can tell a lot about these folks by not only what they say, but what they refuse to say.

Sometimes silence is golden, but sometimes it is a giant pile of dog shit.