Homesteading and Fundies why isn't this a thing?

[formergothardite]

23 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

I recall quite fondly the late Carla Emery who wrote the Encyclopedia of Country Living or, as it was called in its original mimeographed format, An Old Fashioned Recipe Book.  Phil Donahue like to have her as a guest on his TV show.  Carla covered pretty much everything in her book:  how to milk cows and birth cows, how to grind your own wheat and how to grow it, too, put food by and well, everything you needed to know to successfully homestead.  Carla's book, IIRC, had an adaptation of the song "The End of a Perfect Day"  that described how busy she'd been all day.  That was her perfect day.  With the Duggars, it's plain out laziness that keeps them from doing things like gardening and canning or using real plates.  I'd be so completely and utterly bored if I were a Duggar.

I love Carla Emery! That woman was amazing! Her daughter Esther has a Youtube channel that is pretty interesting. But yes, it is hard to do all the back to nature stuff. Possible because Carla did it and my parents lived pretty back to nature with nine kids, but hard. Growing your food, canning and living a life that lowers your impact on the environment is harder than just buying paper plates and processed food and I just don't see people like the Bates and Duggars being willing to do the hard work. 

I have found, though, that once you get in the habit of doing things like growing your own food and/or buying local and preserving it, it becomes less overwhelming. 

[EmmieJ]

21 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm lazy. I will fully admit it. I think most of us are lazy at least sometimes. Lazy isn't a big deal. The issue is that you can't have this many children and be lazy. It doesn't work. 

Exactly.  I would have liked to have more than one child, but I did not - because I couldn't afford to raise more than one without being stretched too thin, both emotionally and financially. 

And look no further for an example of two parents who make their kids do all the work than the Nauglers.  Lazy doesn't even begin to cover it.  I do think JB had lots of drive when he was a young man, and did hustle to make money.  But he and Michelle haven't seemed to have adequately prepared most of their offspring for real life demands.

[emscm]

This is just another sad example of how much wasted potential is in that household. If they were more self-sufficient they could be learning real useful skills.

Way back when  the specials were on, didn't they explain that homeschooling gave them the opportunity to give their kids real life experiences? Am I remembering this right? Maybe if those real life experiences were actually useful, like learning to garden instead of visiting the Creation Museum, they would be set up for a more productive life instead of still being reliant on Jim Boob.  

[SassyPants]

On 12/10/2016 at 3:00 PM, AreYouThereGothard? said:

Potential theory: the earth is "temporary" and how we leave it doesn't matter because the next life is so much better. This sentiment was expressed in "Jesus Camp" (watch it if you have the stomach). Essentially, the textbooks used by the homeschooled children professed that global warming is a liberal scam and that we are supposed to use up God's resources (ie, fossil fuels), because apocalypse, doesn't matter, again, the temporary schtick. Shot in the dark, but maybe this is something similar? Or, they see anything that serves their beliefs as justifiable. God gave them 19 kids, so using paper plates is the best way the fulfill what the Lord has bestowed on them. Because they have so many kids, what feeds the most people is what is permissible. What's interesting is that the last sentiment is not uncommon amongst people who are financially strapped; why spend the money on vegetables when a whole fast food/processed meal is just as much? It's a means to an end, and if I were in a financially trying situation, I'd probably feel the same.  Why the Duggars' situation is aggravating is because none of them will pursue gainful employment and insist of having huge families. Necessity is one thing, deliberately putting yourself in that situation under the claim of "God's will" doesn't cut the mustard for me.

Also, someone with a nutrition background pointed the unhealthy recipes out on one of their recipe postings. Another replied that they look happy and healthy and we shouldn't judge them. Come on guys, we're better than this (note: complete sarcasm)

In the Duggars' defense, they do not believe in science at all, so the disposition of Earth would never hit their radar. Nutrition, another science based topic, so...

I'll second the notion of lazy and uneducated- a very lethal combination.

What the hell do they do all day long? 

Girls: hair and makeup

Boys: drive around with their guns, eating donuts?
The kids: running around like banshees?

JB and M: sweet fellowship?

 

On 12/10/2016 at 8:35 PM, EmmieJ said:

We were neither fundie or homesteaders, but their were 8 kids in my family.  We always had a small garden that supplemented our groceries (corn, tomatoes, zucchini, strawberries) plus a walnut tree, wild blackberries, two apple trees.  We also had fresh eggs from our 6 chickens.  My dad posted weekly chore charts: weeding, watering, animal care, setting & clearing the table, dish washing, etc.  We didn't have a dishwasher, we all took our turn.  On Saturdays, we had hamburgers and tater tots for dinner, on paper plates. We all looked forward to that.  I am not impressed with the Duggars ' wasteful lifestyle.

My hubs is from a family of seven kids...every kid had a night of the week to do dishes.

1 hour ago, emscm said:

This is just another sad example of how much wasted potential is in that household. If they were more self-sufficient they could be learning real useful skills.

Way back when  the specials were on, didn't they explain that homeschooling gave them the opportunity to give their kids real life experiences? Am I remembering this right? Maybe if those real life experiences were actually useful, like learning to garden instead of visiting the Creation Museum, they would be set up for a more productive life instead of still being reliant on Jim Boob.  

I think they just had too many kids to manage any of it. Although, they could change their ways NOW, as the numbers have dwindled and all are old enough to help.

You hear 19 kids and you go, ok...and then you realize they have 10 sons and 9 daughters. Holy hell. 2 about did me in. Of course, I did not parent the way the Duggars did/do and I also worked outside the home, but yikes. No couple can adequately parent 19 children. There are not enough hours in the day.

 

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

You hear 19 kids and you go, ok...and then you realize they have 10 sons and 9 daughters. Holy hell. 2 about did me in. Of course, I did not parent the way the Duggars did/do and I also worked outside the home, but yikes. No couple can adequately parent 19 children. There are not enough hours in the day.

Agreed!  Everyone is different.  There are some parents who are better at juggling all the different parts of raising a family, running a household and working outside the home.  Then there are moms like me, who do the best we can but always seem to playing catch up (and that's just with one kid). 

What bothered me most about the Duggars at first, and how I eventually found my way through several Free Jinger boards, was that I really do not approve of having so many kids, that you make your older kids raise the  younger ones.  Being a parent is a big responsibility.  I feel a big part of that responsibility is being realistic about your finances - can you afford to properly care for more children than you already have?

and being realistic about your physical capabilities - if you cannot parent your children and so you decide your older children have to bear some of the parenting duties -- then you've had too many children.  Stop having children!  Parent the ones you have. 

 

[grandmadugger]

I've been mulling this over for a few days now. The more I think about it the madder I get. They are failing at such epic portions it's not even funny. They claim to be just good ol country folks. They do nothing that country folk do. They live on 20 acres without an animal in sight.  No chickens for eggs or meat, no cows for milk or meat, no pigs for meat. I know they don't eat pork and frankly pigs are gross animals IMO.  No garden to raise fresh vegetables, no fruit or nut trees, no one is canning, drying, or putting food in a root cellar.  They have guns and bows but no one hunts. They aren't helping control the animal population or filling their freezer so what is the point of having the guns and bows.  What is their contribution to the community?  Helping out during the ice storm several years ago was a one time deal. What do people call them to help with?  Most country folk have a skill and neighbors will call when they need you and in turn you call them when you need something.  Money isn't exchanged or even expected.  You'll get something like a package of deer meat, or eggs, or jams, or a pie because that's how real country folk do things.  The Duggars fail at even living the lifestyle they claim they do.

[anotherone]

14 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

I've been mulling this over for a few days now. The more I think about it the madder I get. They are failing at such epic portions it's not even funny. They claim to be just good ol country folks. They do nothing that country folk do. They live on 20 acres without an animal in sight.  No chickens for eggs or meat, no cows for milk or meat, no pigs for meat. I know they don't eat pork and frankly pigs are gross animals IMO.  No garden to raise fresh vegetables, no fruit or nut trees, no one is canning, drying, or putting food in a root cellar.  They have guns and bows but no one hunts. They aren't helping control the animal population or filling their freezer so what is the point of having the guns and bows.  What is their contribution to the community?  Helping out during the ice storm several years ago was a one time deal. What do people call them to help with?  Most country folk have a skill and neighbors will call when they need you and in turn you call them when you need something.  Money isn't exchanged or even expected.  You'll get something like a package of deer meat, or eggs, or jams, or a pie because that's how real country folk do things.  The Duggars fail at even living the lifestyle they claim they do.

I wrote a post like this almost a year ago.  I had been thinking all the same things at the time because I had been to a friend's farm who lives near Amish country so we were watching them and went to an auction that they held.  You see the young boys handling these enormous draft horses like they were puppies, and all the women and girls were just busy all the time.  You could see that the clothes were handmade.  You could see all the quilts and stuff they had at the auction, including real nice furniture and cabinets and stuff.   You could tell which farms were Amish becauuse there were no tractors.  It was real weird.  If they could do all that without electricity or machines you would think the Duggars kiddults could at least grow a few tomato plants and keep a few chickens, or even wash their own dishes once in a while.

Remember the show Trading spouses?  They should put a few Duggars on an Amish farm and see how they like the godly lifestyle.

[HarleyQuinn]

They're entitled and lazy. 

They probably don't even recycle all the paper and plastic they use. That's another thing that bothers me. If you feel like you're running your dishwasher too much and your utility bills are skyrocketing, you better be recycling all of that shit. 

[LadyCrow1313]

24 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

They're entitled and lazy. 

They probably don't even recycle all the paper and plastic they use. That's another thing that bothers me. If you feel like you're running your dishwasher too much and your utility bills are skyrocketing, you better be recycling all of that shit. 

I'm a single person living in an apartment, & I recycle paper/plastic/cans. I don't produce that much garbage (unless I'm on a cleaning spree), but I'm always amazed at how much less garbage I put out since I started to recycle.

My mind boggles with the size of the Duggar family, & how much less garbage they'd produce if they recycled.

[Mela99]

I think the thing that makes me the angriest about them being lazy and unwilling is this: dim wit claimed in that first book they wrote how poor he was as a kid. Living in old hotels, his mother feeding him decorative rice because they had no money for groceries. Living that way as a child stays with you as an adult. I'm proof of it. I grew up poor as hell. Bank threats to take the house, shopping exclusively at surplus stores for expired food, free bread from St Vincent DePaul, knowing which days of the week the Weis market set their old produce by the dumpster. I've been there and it is horrible. Even now, at 31, I have not forgotten. I don't day this to brag but I have a law degree and DH currently makes 75k a year. I still have anxiety about saving money and saving food and making sure we're okay. I don't throw things away. I clip coupons, wait for sales. I taught myself to can and plant my own tomatoes and fruit every year. I stretch every meal. Case in point - my sister in law got married last weekend and no one wanted to take the leftovers home. I took them all. Sacks of chicken breasts, fruit, vegetables, leftover mashed potatoes. I deboned all the chicken and turned the bones into broth. Froze the veggies for stew and sides. We're eating the mashed potatoes and putting the rest into potato bread. I cannot understand how they lived that life and don't be damned grateful for what they have and do whatever they can because there's no guarantee that money is gonna be there tomorrow , no matter how special and famous you think you are.

[SassyPants]

36 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I think the thing that makes me the angriest about them being lazy and unwilling is this: dim wit claimed in that first book they wrote how poor he was as a kid. Living in old hotels, his mother feeding him decorative rice because they had no money for groceries. Living that way as a child stays with you as an adult. I'm proof of it. I grew up poor as hell. Bank threats to take the house, shopping exclusively at surplus stores for expired food, free bread from St Vincent DePaul, knowing which days of the week the Weis market set their old produce by the dumpster. I've been there and it is horrible. Even now, at 31, I have not forgotten. I don't day this to brag but I have a law degree and DH currently makes 75k a year. I still have anxiety about saving money and saving food and making sure we're okay. I don't throw things away. I clip coupons, wait for sales. I taught myself to can and plant my own tomatoes and fruit every year. I stretch every meal. Case in point - my sister in law got married last weekend and no one wanted to take the leftovers home. I took them all. Sacks of chicken breasts, fruit, vegetables, leftover mashed potatoes. I deboned all the chicken and turned the bones into broth. Froze the veggies for stew and sides. We're eating the mashed potatoes and putting the rest into potato bread. I cannot understand how they lived that life and don't be damned grateful for what they have and do whatever they can because there's no guarantee that money is gonna be there tomorrow , no matter how special and famous you think you are.

First let me say, good for you for all that they do. You are doing it right. 

Second, I think JB was is a lying sack of crap. He was never living in poverty. His parents had 2 kids and were business owners. He may not have had everything he wanted, but he was not going hungry. His own kids were the ones who more than likely went to bed hungry on occasion. Michelle was the one who made entire meals consisting of rice and Jill mentioned that she used to bogart food to eat in the bathroom. 

[Bad Wolf]

JB went to a private Christian school. Not so poor. Even if he had a scholarship, there's still uniforms and stuff to buy.

 

[QuiverDance]

In the community where I was raised, my grandparents' generation lived like this.  They all had large gardens, fruit and nut trees, poultry, and livestock.  They hunted and fished.   They bartered with neighbors.  They canned and pickled and in later years, froze vegetables, meat and seafood for the off season.  My grandfather's garden was such that I don't believe I ate a vegetable (other t han things like artichokes and avocados) that was not home grown until I was an adult.   There was no more livestock by the time I was an older child; it was too much trouble.  The last horse was sold when I was 5 or 6.  The last hunting dog was gone by the time I was 13.  From then on there were only guinea hens, not so much for eggs but because my grandmother liked them.  But until I was a grown up, there were always cucumbers, tomatoes, potatoes, carrots, all sorts of beans and peas, onions, garlic, fresh figs, citrus, peaches, plums, lettuces, berries, muscadine grapes, corn, and a few rows of sugar cane (I am not sure why... other than he enjoyed having it there). 

It was a LOT of hard work, but it was their way of life.  They had to give it up when they got older, and my parents' generation had nonoe of it.  My generation is far removed from it, and many if not most of us have moved away.  

I don't think I could do it, personally.  I can remember my grandfather coming in from his garden every afternoon, his clothes literally wringing wet with sweat.  He worked HARD.  He lived to be 96 years old, and he was never ill until his very last days on this earth.  Clean living means something.  

[SuchABlessing]

From the fundie families we snark on, I can't imagine anything LESS suited to their lifestyle than homesteading. Honestly, if you're off the grid, there's no one to grift from. People like the Dillard's and the Rodrigues family don't believe in actual work and rely on others to fund their lifestyle through donations to their "ministry". 

[grandmadugger]

35 minutes ago, SuchABlessing said:

From the fundie families we snark on, I can't imagine anything LESS suited to their lifestyle than homesteading. Honestly, if you're off the grid, there's no one to grift from. People like the Dillard's and the Rodrigues family don't believe in actual work and rely on others to fund their lifestyle through donations to their "ministry". 

They wouldn't have to go off grid but they could be more sustainable.  It's work but what else are they doing?  The Rodriguiis could actually feed the kids if they put in a garden. 

[SassyPants]

People like the Duggars go not work for a living, period.

And that's why their lifestyle is unsustainable:

Refuse to educate

Refuse to work

Refuse to control fertility

It's a recipe for disaster. The Duggars made it because: JB and M worked and saved for 4 years prior to falling down the rabbit hole. I am sure that GM/GP Duggar helped them in the beginning (think cars and a home). They both educated themselves and obtained RE licenses- and used them to work. They were not lazy.

And when the going got tough, JB sold his family to the highest bidder-

The 2nd generation Duggars have not a prayer on Earth of successfully sustaining this lifestyle...too many people, too few skills and brain cells, plus a complete lack of motivation from any of the adults.

[Melissa1977]

Gardening requires land, buying seeds and tools and requires knowledgement. So you need an investment to start. And if you are not a farmer, you need to learn. 

Duggars bought the place they live when they had already 14 children. They hadn't any place to garden before. JB was working/politics/grifting and Michelle homeschooled and still doing some parenting plus getting pregnant or nursing all the time. Do you really thing they could take time to learn how to properly garden? and they had time to try and fail and try again? 

I dislike their lifestyle. Absolutely. But I understand them choosing the lazy, easy path. And by the time they were living in the countryside and stop having kids they were too damaged to improve anything.

[sophie10130]

19 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Gardening requires land, buying seeds and tools and requires knowledgement. So you need an investment to start. And if you are not a farmer, you need to learn. 

Duggars bought the place they live when they had already 14 children. They hadn't any place to garden before. JB was working/politics/grifting and Michelle homeschooled and still doing some parenting plus getting pregnant or nursing all the time. Do you really thing they could take time to learn how to properly garden? and they had time to try and fail and try again? 

I dislike their lifestyle. Absolutely. But I understand them choosing the lazy, easy path. And by the time they were living in the countryside and stop having kids they were too damaged to improve anything.

Mostly, I think it's the fact that there was never an emphasis on it. Michelle could have added gardening or working the land to her homeschooling curriculum just like she could have added cooking. There is a lot to be learned from books from the library about gardening that can then be taught to littles. Kids can grow easy things like tomatoes and zucchini. They learn each year and what they learned last year will help them this year and so on. Really, there are a lot of good lessons to be learned, but they decided not to.

They do currently have a garden. But imagine how big and how extensive it could be with so many helping hands. People have gardened way more with way less, just look at the flourishing gardens in abandoned lots in cities. Think of how removed people in cities are from sprawling acreage of crops. 

So yes, I do think they could have learned how to properly garden. Seeds are not expensive, tools can be bought second hand, books can be taken from the library, google searches are a thing. Plus, the best kind of learning is done by experience.

[grandmadugger]

10 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

Mostly, I think it's the fact that there was never an emphasis on it. Michelle could have added gardening or working the land to her homeschooling curriculum just like she could have added cooking. There is a lot to be learned from books from the library about gardening that can then be taught to littles. Kids can grow easy things like tomatoes and zucchini. They learn each year and what they learned last year will help them this year and so on. Really, there are a lot of good lessons to be learned, but they decided not to. 

You mean like home ec. and ag class. When I was in high school, late 90s, we had home ec, ag, small engines, and woodworking. The same high school still has everything but woodworking. When the teacher retired the program ended.  There's no reason that homeschooled kids couldn't get the same classes.  

[sophie10130]

5 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

You mean like home ec. and ag class. When I was in high school, late 90s, we had home ec, ag, small engines, and woodworking. The same high school still has everything but woodworking. When the teacher retired the program ended.  There's no reason that homeschooled kids couldn't get the same classes.  

Exactly. She teaches the girls how to sew. She incorporates some real life skills into the curriculum. Why not gardening and more? And really, gardening can happen on a sliding scale, from hobby-size all the way up to fully utilizing their 20 acres (I would die to get my hands on that much land for a small-scale farm)

[JermajestyDuggar]

There's no point in putting in the extra work of a garden when you can shop at Aldi and buy canned crap for pennies. I've known people who actually save no money gardening and it's added work. There is no way cheap skate jB would do that.

[SassyPants]

Screw healthy living.

God loves slobs and consumers of can O-shite soup too.

I guess the 7 deadly sins is another idea skipped over in JB's Cult.

[Maggie Mae]

9 hours ago, Mela99 said:

 because there's no guarantee that money is gonna be there tomorrow

 

Poverty has something of an opposite effect on some people, and this (what you said) is key. Some people in poverty -- I've been there -- are so worried about assets being seized that it's a "spend it while you can" type of effect, which is sometimes why you see NFL players and other athletes who came from nothing making incredibly poor financial decisions. 

I know that's why upbringing went from poor to upper middle to working poor within my first 18 years of life. And why, despite my best efforts and planning, I  often end up wondering why I have few dollars in the bank.

To add to that, there's also the element of God with the Duggars. They believe in "leaving it up to God." So my point is that I don't think JB was as poverty-stricken as he claims. 

[grandmadugger]

4 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

Exactly. She teaches the girls how to sew. She incorporates some real life skills into the curriculum. Why not gardening and more? And really, gardening can happen on a sliding scale, from hobby-size all the way up to fully utilizing their 20 acres (I would die to get my hands on that much land for a small-scale farm)

I would love to get my hands on their land too. A few head of cattle, a nice chicken coop, a small garden, a nice workshop for the hubby. Their place truly is my dream spot since they are just down the road from some of friends. 

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

There's no point in putting in the extra work of a garden when you can shop at Aldi and buy canned crap for pennies. I've known people who actually save no money gardening and it's added work. There is no way cheap skate jB would do that.

It's not about saving money but controlling what you put into your body. The Bible says our bodies are a temple and somewhere I imagine he's looking at the Duggars diet going "dude I was kind of hoping for a nicer temple. "

[Melissa1977]

12 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

Mostly, I think it's the fact that there was never an emphasis on it. Michelle could have added gardening or working the land to her homeschooling curriculum just like she could have added cooking. There is a lot to be learned from books from the library about gardening that can then be taught to littles. Kids can grow easy things like tomatoes and zucchini. They learn each year and what they learned last year will help them this year and so on. Really, there are a lot of good lessons to be learned, but they decided not to.

They do currently have a garden. But imagine how big and how extensive it could be with so many helping hands. People have gardened way more with way less, just look at the flourishing gardens in abandoned lots in cities. Think of how removed people in cities are from sprawling acreage of crops. 

So yes, I do think they could have learned how to properly garden. Seeds are not expensive, tools can be bought second hand, books can be taken from the library, google searches are a thing. Plus, the best kind of learning is done by experience.

My dad has a garden. It's not that cheap. You buy seeds, you pay a lot for watering (he doesn't live in a rainy area). He does it because it's a hobby but he says some veggies are cheaper in the supermarket. Plus it's a lot of work. Yes having 2 tomatoes plants and a couple zucchini plants can be easy but if you want to feed 20 people you will have to sweat.

And it's not only planting and watering. Plants are not giving fruit during all the year. Basically you obtain lots of veggies in summer so you better can or freeze (but for freezing you need to clean, chop the veggies, so it means time).

Yes, they could have scheduled garden time. But do you really think an overwhelmed mother of 14 can add such a big activity to their routine?

Even Munck family, who were not lazy at all and had big kids to help, told thay they were unable to properly garden and to can food from their farm.

You can live like in ancient times, gardening and having chickens and sewing your clothes and so on. But it's not easy. I'm a mother of two and I know what raising kids and having a clean house means. I'm not blaming a mother of 19 for not doing her own soap or not gardening.

Anyway, you can buy cheap healthy food. You can prepare salads in minutes, and soups and stews in crockpots and properly feed your kids without too much work and with a limitated budget. That's what I blame Michelle for.