Kendal Explains Why Homeschooling Really Is a Waste of Time

[BravaAmica]

A question... As a homeschooling parent, what are you required to teach your children?

How many more languages than English?

When it comes to religion, are you supposed to teach about a variety of religions?

How much maths? Does it involve drawing graphs, solve different types of equations, understanding derivative and number e...? (I'm just mentioning random things from what I learned in public school).

It depends on the state and the regulations there. Also, some school districts have home school co-ops, where you take the kids in a couple of times a year and they're tested to see if they're meeting the state requirements for that grade level. Most people don't utilize the school district homeschool co-ops (which is a shame because they will give you $$ for activities, let you check out cirriculums for free, offer free tutoring, even have a class that meets twice a week, ect.), though.

Many home schoolers just do it at home, with no state oversight. So you don't *have* to teach foregin languages, world religion or even math beyond arithmetic. If you want your child to go to a good college, and you home school, it behooves you to make sure they at least take one foreign language, world history, and advanced math (algebra 1, 2, and geometry at the minimum).

DS often asks to be homeschooled. I remind him that I am a much harder teacher than any teacher he has had. And that he would go to school year-round. (I would homeschool him if he needed it, like if he was being bullied and it was safer for him to be out of public school. But he wants to home school because he doesn't like to get dressed before noon.)

[clibbyjo]

It depends on the state and the regulations there. Also, some school districts have home school co-ops, where you take the kids in a couple of times a year and they're tested to see if they're meeting the state requirements for that grade level. Most people don't utilize the school district homeschool co-ops (which is a shame because they will give you $$ for activities, let you check out cirriculums for free, offer free tutoring, even have a class that meets twice a week, ect.), though.

Many home schoolers just do it at home, with no state oversight. So you don't *have* to teach foregin languages, world religion or even math beyond arithmetic. If you want your child to go to a good college, and you home school, it behooves you to make sure they at least take one foreign language, world history, and advanced math (algebra 1, 2, and geometry at the minimum).

DS often asks to be homeschooled. I remind him that I am a much harder teacher than any teacher he has had. And that he would go to school year-round. (I would homeschool him if he needed it, like if he was being bullied and it was safer for him to be out of public school. But he wants to home school because he doesn't like to get dressed before noon.)

What state are you in that your school district offers homeschool classes? I have never heard of that before. My district does not allow homeschoolers to take anything,including sports.(althoug my 9 year old was going to be on their swimteam and they knew he was homeschooled so maybe they are changing that) The only thing I am allowed,by PA. law is the textbooks they are using for the grades my kids are in. I do not get the textbooks,I do not want anything from them.

[emmiedahl]

Why would a homeschooler want their books? Schools always buy the worst possible textbooks. There is a huge lobby involved and a monopoly situation. We use supplemental curriculum at home so my kids can actually learn something.

[BravaAmica]

cibbyjo, I sent you a PM.

[Jessica]

A question... As a homeschooling parent, what are you required to teach your children?

How many more languages than English?

When it comes to religion, are you supposed to teach about a variety of religions?

How much maths? Does it involve drawing graphs, solve different types of equations, understanding derivative and number e...? (I'm just mentioning random things from what I learned in public school).

HSLDA.org has the laws for each state. For my state it's:

Required Subjects: “subjects the State Board of Education requires to be taught in

public schools†...

Elementary Schools (K-6): reading/language arts, math, science,

social studies, the arts, health education, physical education, and

educational technology.

Middle Schools (7-8): language arts, math, science, social studies,

the arts, physical education, health education, and career and

technical education, life, and careers.

High Schools (9-12): language arts, math, science, social studies,

the arts, physical and health education, career and technical

education, educational technology, general financial literacy, and

library media skills.

It doesn't specify any foreign language but we plan on doing a Spanish immersion program when our son is old enough... both for language skills and social interaction. :)

[clibbyjo]

HSLDA.org has the laws for each state. For my state it's:

Required Subjects: “subjects the State Board of Education requires to be taught in

public schools†...

Elementary Schools (K-6): reading/language arts, math, science,

social studies, the arts, health education, physical education, and

educational technology.

Middle Schools (7-8): language arts, math, science, social studies,

the arts, physical education, health education, and career and

technical education, life, and careers.

High Schools (9-12): language arts, math, science, social studies,

the arts, physical and health education, career and technical

education, educational technology, general financial literacy, and

library media skills.

It doesn't specify any foreign language but we plan on doing a Spanish immersion program when our son is old enough... both for language skills and social interaction. :)

HSLDA is a Christian run group for Christian homeschoolers. They do not protect all homeschoolers, only the Christians and you do NOT need them or anything they offer. As long as you know the law in your state you are fine,don't waste your money on them. Use "Ask Pauline" or Jons Homeschool to get the laws for your state.

[emmiedahl]

When I homeschooled, I went down to the school district office and asked them what I needed to do. They tried to encourage me to do some virtual school thing and I was like, no, I want to teach them at home with my own stuff. Then they gave me the info I needed. HSLDA=not necessary. Homeschooling is legal and the school district has to give you the information.

[Austin]

Why would a homeschooler want their books? Schools always buy the worst possible textbooks. There is a huge lobby involved and a monopoly situation. We use supplemental curriculum at home so my kids can actually learn something.

This is a huge overgeneralization. Not every textbook is awful. I really liked the History Alive textbooks and materials and I know those were chosen above other history texts with great care because my husband was on that commitee.

[emmiedahl]

My stepfather is on the curriculum committee for his school and he said that all of the textbook companies he is given for consideration are owned by the same company and offer the same information, sometimes verbatim. They are heavy lobbyists to the government as well. That's in California. Our school district in Washington uses the same Pearson books. Maybe I over-generalized, but it is definitely an issue in American education.

[clibbyjo]

When I homeschooled, I went down to the school district office and asked them what I needed to do. They tried to encourage me to do some virtual school thing and I was like, no, I want to teach them at home with my own stuff. Then they gave me the info I needed. HSLDA=not necessary. Homeschooling is legal and the school district has to give you the information.

Most of the time the school districts do not know the law and try to get you to do what they want. I have friends in about 20 different districts and not one of the districts follows the law correctly. It is best to get a copy of the law and learn it yourself.The school districts may send you letters or call to tell you what you need to do and what they want. DO NOT COMPLY. You do not have to turn in anything except what the law states in your state. I don't know if it is my state or what, but 1/2 of my friends have gotten calls demanding extra things from their school districts.When my friends say "No, I will turn in only what is required by the law" and send them a highlighted portion of the law with the actual rules they shut up.

When I picked up my portfolio's a few weeks ago(which were not returned in an orderly fashion as stated by law I might add)I was dropping of the notarized affidavits for this coming year.The due date is Aug.1st (by law) and the secretary was surprised I was dropping them off, asked a again what I was dropping off and didn't know the due date was Aug.1st.(Which I told her to expect them from all of us that week because ALL the homeschoolers have to turn them in by AUg.1st) If you are in charge of collecting the entire homeschool population's important papers that are date sensitive, shouldn't you know the day they are due? Keep in mind she(her office) types out a paper and sends it to all the homeschoolers of what the law says we must turn in and when, yet they don't even know?

I would not rely on the school district to tell me what I need to do for homeschooling. Memorize the law for your state,that is the best thing you can do.

My own district has the "special ed. director" review my portfolio's when it clearly states in the law the superintendent must review them. I had them sent registered mail to the superintendent's office for 2 years, and they still sent them to the special ed.

[Koala]

HSLDA is a Christian run group for Christian homeschoolers. They do not protect all homeschoolers, only the Christians and you do NOT need them or anything they offer. As long as you know the law in your state you are fine,don't waste your money on them. Use "Ask Pauline" or Jons Homeschool to get the laws for your state.

This. Some homeschool groups/covers require HSLDA membership, but you can find groups that do not.

Honestly, I wouldn't throw in with HSLDA if they paid ME to join.

[maybeizfundie]

HSLDA also won't have anything to do with homeschoolers who use cyber charter schools if they're in any way attached to or funded by the state.

Because cyber schools are actually an evil government scheme to get control of homeschoolers.

[Austin]

My stepfather is on the curriculum committee for his school and he said that all of the textbook companies he is given for consideration are owned by the same company and offer the same information, sometimes verbatim. They are heavy lobbyists to the government as well. That's in California. Our school district in Washington uses the same Pearson books. Maybe I over-generalized, but it is definitely an issue in American education.

So . . and I'm really trying to understand what you're saying, but is your point that your stepfather's school can only buy from one textbook company? If so, that is not the way we do it here. Yes, there are a limited number of companies that produce textbooks (Houghten-Mifflin-Harcourt, McGraw-Hill, Prentice, etc.), but that's true of any item. And here, textbook companies compete and certainly lobby decison makers directly.

Just last year, my husband was the head of a committee who chose a new reading program for his new school. They had been using D/I (direct instruction) which is fine if you're in China or somewhere that learning by rote methods are valued :roll: , but he was looking for a balanced literacy program that addresses many different ways that different children learn. He and his committee narrowed it down to two: Reading Street and Journeys, one by Pearson and the other by HMH. Representatives of both publishers lobbied him hard and he was able to negotiate a lot of extra materials and ongoing support gratis, which benefitted his entire staff and their student population in the end.

I would not argue that all of these publishers lobby hard to get their textbooks into schools. That's the way they make money and the competition is a good thing. The way that many publishers decide on what is important is bothersome, as in using Texas as a measure of what the rest of the country should be learning - god forbid. But no matter what kinds of curricula or in what setting your kids are using it, someone, somewhere has made those same decisions, too. I have no idea why California is limited to one company, but that is not the same everywhere (or else how would all the other companies stay in business?)

If someone doesn't want to take advantage of the district's offerings, that's fine, and it sounds like in some cases, it goes beyond the quality of the materials. I have seen some homeschooling materials that are pretty scary, but I don't assume that all homeschooling materials are.

[emmiedahl]

Pearson owns Prentice Hall, Addison Wesley, MCP, Dorling Kindersley, and a lot of the other brands.

eta: depending on your state, either Pearson or McGraw Hill writes the state test. If you do not use the curriculum designed to teach everything on the test in the same language as used on the test, then you will not do as well on the tests. This is why it's all Pearson in California. Not only do these two companies write the tests and the textbooks (thus deciding what is 'important' for children to know), but they have executives serving on almost every federal or state committee in the nation on testing standards and education to ensure that this remains the case.

Here is a story about Georgia's experience with them. http://savannahnow.com/column/2011-05-0 ... ion-market

[Jessica]

I just mentioned HSLDA because they have an overview of the laws for each state on their website. I'm not a member and that's the only resource I use on their site and the only site I know of off the top of my head with that info. Sorry! :?

[Trynn]

The bible might contain a lot of truth, but it is not going to teach me how to perform CPR, drive a car, or learn German grammar.

[Deleted03]

how would they know the bible is all that matters? That's not what they learnt! that's not how it was done for them! That's bad reasoning and laziness just sucks in those people...

[clibbyjo]

I just mentioned HSLDA because they have an overview of the laws for each state on their website. I'm not a member and that's the only resource I use on their site and the only site I know of off the top of my head with that info. Sorry! :?

I hope I didn't come off as a bitch on my rant about HSLDA. I am just so against them and I don't want any homeschoolers(Christian or not) thinking they HAVE to waste money and join them.They try to scare homeschoolers into thinking they will help and protect them when you can protect yourself for free. They would not help me if I needed it because I am not "one of them". Groups like that do not need any advertising. I get calls from new homeschoolers all the time and this is part of what I say to them so I get passionate about it. No offense. I realize not everyone knows which sites to look for state laws off the top of their heads as I do. :dance:

[sugaree]

Can I just jump in and say that a basic knowledge of science, history, and geography is pretty darn important for people just to participate as voting citizens? I mean, how are you supposed to vote for environmental referendums, or evaluate the environmental platform of a candidate or a party, if you know nothing about chemistry? At least know enough to realize that you know nothing at all, you know?

Also, even public school students who are not required to take a separate class of chemistry at the high school level do learn the basics in their years of general science classes.

[pomology]

Can I just jump in and say that a basic knowledge of science, history, and geography is pretty darn important for people just to participate as voting citizens? I mean, how are you supposed to vote for environmental referendums, or evaluate the environmental platform of a candidate or a party, if you know nothing about chemistry? At least know enough to realize that you know nothing at all, you know?

Also, even public school students who are not required to take a separate class of chemistry at the high school level do learn the basics in their years of general science classes.

Since when do fundies care about the environment or producing members of the voting public who care about anything other than unborn fetuses and teh gays?

[antifundie]

I really really wish I "knew" science better. To be fair to my parents, I think they tried, but it was mostly reading and answering questions, and we sort of stopped with that before high school. I'm trying to learn some of the basics now--like where the stars came from, if there are other galaxies, etc. I was watching the Big Bang Theory, and they were talking about stars and I realized I had NO IDEA how they got there/what they were made of except that "God put them there." Yeah.

And, our sun is technically a star, yes?

I went to college, but took "Human Biology" and Environmental Science--in part because they seemed easy, but also because neither course had strict math or science pre-requisites. As far as math goes, I limped through Saxon's Advanced Math in HS, and then did (remedial) Algebra II in college and a Life-math-type thing. And then I took Logic rather than statistics--in part because logic wasn't at 8am, but also because I thought it would be easier.

Another question--long story. I got strawberry juice on our granite countertop (in our rented apartment!)--so I freaked out about the stain. I googled, and found out that you could apply a Poultice (?) of white flour mixed with bleach to the stain, and it would help remove it. I mixed the two ingredients together AND THEY GOT HOT. They weren't hot to begin with. WHY did the mixture get hot???

(oh and it worked pretty well to improve the stain--whoot!)

Anyways, I'm trying to remedy my lack of knowledge by reading Stephen Hawkings "A Brief History of Time" and I have a couple other books to read after that. It's pretty embarrassing to me that I'm in a PhD program and yet I don't know the basics about our planet or how things work.

[clibbyjo]

I really really wish I "knew" science better. To be fair to my parents, I think they tried, but it was mostly reading and answering questions, and we sort of stopped with that before high school. I'm trying to learn some of the basics now--like where the stars came from, if there are other galaxies, etc. I was watching the Big Bang Theory, and they were talking about stars and I realized I had NO IDEA how they got there/what they were made of except that "God put them there." Yeah.

And, our sun is technically a star, yes?

I went to college, but took "Human Biology" and Environmental Science--in part because they seemed easy, but also because neither course had strict math or science pre-requisites. As far as math goes, I limped through Saxon's Advanced Math in HS, and then did (remedial) Algebra II in college and a Life-math-type thing. And then I took Logic rather than statistics--in part because logic wasn't at 8am, but also because I thought it would be easier.

Another question--long story. I got strawberry juice on our granite countertop (in our rented apartment!)--so I freaked out about the stain. I googled, and found out that you could apply a Poultice (?) of white flour mixed with bleach to the stain, and it would help remove it. I mixed the two ingredients together AND THEY GOT HOT. They weren't hot to begin with. WHY did the mixture get hot???

(oh and it worked pretty well to improve the stain--whoot!)

Anyways, I'm trying to remedy my lack of knowledge by reading Stephen Hawkings "A Brief History of Time" and I have a couple other books to read after that. It's pretty embarrassing to me that I'm in a PhD program and yet I don't know the basics about our planet or how things work.

My son found "A Brief History of Time" to be boring, but liked "The Grand Design" better.He is reading AGD now.

[sugaree]

Since when do fundies care about the environment or producing members of the voting public who care about anything other than unborn fetuses and teh gays?

And that's my point exactly. Anyone who doesn't care about the environment knows jack-all about science.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Seems like failing to teach kids about basic educational topics when one "homeschools" would be a legal violation that might fall into the child neglect category.

In no way am I defending her--she's a whack job. But if your statement were true than many public schools would be guilty of neglect. My kids have been homeschooled and are now in public school. The legions who cannot read or do math but graduate are too numerous to name.

Kendal's problem is likely that she's discovering you can't do it all. Very motivated homeschool parents (and I've known many) will move heaven and earth to give their kids the best possible education. Kendal and her ilk are seeking only indoctrination--not education.

[antifundie]

Clibby, what is AGD? And I've added "The Grand Design" to my list of things to read--so thanks! So far, I've liked "A Brief History" although I don't really understand the need for a single theory/equation that would define the whole universe. I hope to figure that out at some point! (Er, why we need one, not what it is!!!)