Jahi McMath 3: Issued Second Death Certificate and Will Finally Be Allowed to Rest

[Briefly]

11 minutes ago, melon said:

I am glad Jahi is finally at peace.I have some sympathy for her mother,some empathy,too.I,too,have lost a child.

At first,I was in denial,I didn't want to accept what they told me,that my son would never be the same,require 24/7 care,and that I should consider the quality of his life.I had to have a few days to come to this realization and acceptance.It was hard to see my youngest child in this state,but because of the injuries he sustained,being ejected from a vehicle, he was gone.

I had to think about what he would have wanted.But I cannot understand why she would let her child remain in limbo,or a vegetative state,for nearly 5 years.

I still remember how I felt.Hopeless,depressed,physically and mentally exhausted.The hospital staff was so kind and supportive.The day we removed him from his vent,one of his nurses came and hugged me and said she would have done the same thing.SInce he was an organ donor,they had to prep him for surgery that came after he was pronounced dead,but they let me stay with him until he passed..I did not want him to die ,alone.

Mr Melon carries a lot of guilt.He was driving,they both did not have their seat belts on.Mr Melon was thrown behind the driver's seat,breaking his arm and he had a concussion.He worried that he was somehow at fault,or had an insulin reaction.The other driver that clipped them was at fault.We could have sued,but Mr Melon did not want to.

My Love reaction is just to let you know how sorry I am for your loss. I can not imagine how hard that must have been for you, or for Mr. Melon.

[Zenyatta]

I was not defending the mother. She may well be a money-grabber.  I have  a DNR and am listed as an organ donor. I am white.

I know permission has to be given to harvest organs. I know how costly it is to care for a clinically dead person and that there are people who have no medical care.

What I found interesting in the article is how doctors and ethicists struggle with the definition of death (it's different in each state), blacks are apparently more wary of the care received (Jahi was just 13 and this was elective surgery ), and so forth.  Just made me think. 

 

 

 

[Zenyatta]

I like to try to get both sides of a story, so I went searching for burger references.  I found another forum that discusses what may have occurred after Jahi's surgery.  A post says the grandmother (a LPN)  fed her pieces of a burger and then used a suction device when Jahi started bleeding.

allnurses.com/nursing-news/the story-of-jahi

 

[melon]

11 hours ago, Briefly said:

My Love reaction is just to let you know how sorry I am for your loss. I can not imagine how hard that must have been for you, or for Mr. Melon.

Thank you,Briefly,for your kind words.

[dharmapunk]

11 hours ago, melon said:

I am glad Jahi is finally at peace.I have some sympathy for her mother,some empathy,too.I,too,have lost a child.

At first,I was in denial,I didn't want to accept what they told me,that my son would never be the same,require 24/7 care,and that I should consider the quality of his life.I had to have a few days to come to this realization and acceptance.It was hard to see my youngest child in this state,but because of the injuries he sustained,being ejected from a vehicle, he was gone.

I

 

Thank you for sharing, melon. I can't imagine the pain of losing a child and having to make complex, irreversible decisions in this situation must be terribly difficult. This is why I am very open minded when it comes to grief reactions. I always thought the word "normal" just does not apply in situations that are anything but normal. But you still managed to put your child first by thinking what would be best for him. Which is what a good parent is supposed to do.

While I, too, have sympathy for Jahi's family, I feel that what they put Jahi through in the last couple of years was not in the child's best interrest - even assuming that there might have been some minimal brain function left.

[persuas1ve]

@Jug Band Baby Thank you! I’ve always wondered if the food after surgery was apocryphal. I can’t imagine how awful they must feel knowing they may have caused the issues that ultimately ended her life.

 

[Terrie]

15 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

Rather than weight loss (since it's a no-no to even suggest that anymore since it's considered fatphobic), her nasal passages and such had to be reconstructed.

The best long term results of any weight loss methods is around 5%, and losing weight and regaining weight is worse for you health than being heavy. And breathing issues are known to cause weight gain, rather than be caused by it. 

[Maggie Mae]

4 hours ago, persuas1ve said:

@Jug Band Baby Thank you! I’ve always wondered if the food after surgery was apocryphal. I can’t imagine how awful they must feel knowing they may have caused the issues that ultimately ended her life.

 

Well, technically they caused the issues she had that required her to get the surgery in the first place; so it's not like they shouldn't feel a bit guilty. 

4 hours ago, Terrie said:

The best long term results of any weight loss methods is around 5%, and losing weight and regaining weight is worse for you health than being heavy. And breathing issues are known to cause weight gain, rather than be caused by it. 

This is blatantly untrue. Don't spread lies. 

[nausicaa]

I used to feel bad for the mother--thinking this was a mother in deep mourning who just couldn't accept the horrible truth of her young daughter passing away. 

But I suggest that anyone interested in the case look at the mother's Instagram. It's very enlightening. The mother comes off as a complete narcissist who is unabashedly using her dead daughter for attention, money, and to bully others. It's an infuriating feed. She constantly is showing off the new purses and shoes she has purchased, soliciting more donations, and openly shows how she and her family disrespected the hospital staff and the other patients in the building (setting up a house basically in one corner of the waiting room, talking loudly and watching movies at full volume at all hours of the night, eating incredibly smelly foods and leaving the remains). The woman was troubled before her daughter passed away. 

She also comes off as someone who doesn't think rules apply to her. So I can imagine the cheeseburger story being true. 

3 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

This is blatantly untrue. Don't spread lies. 

It's really depressing how the dishonest HAES propaganda is beginning to infiltrate Free Jinger. Just another reason for me to despise the pathological Regan Chastain. 

[Jug Band Baby]

On 7/2/2018 at 6:18 PM, melon said:

SInce he was an organ donor,they had to prep him for surgery that came after he was pronounced dead,but they let me stay with him until he passed..I did not want him to die ,alone.

I'm sorry for the loss of your son, and want to thank you for this.  Your loss spared probably multiple others of the same grief.

Also, I always thought that a person was wheeled away before their last breath.  I didn't know it was after.  That makes me feel better with our decision to do this is our daughters every reached that point.

[Jug Band Baby]

On 7/3/2018 at 6:53 AM, Terrie said:

The best long term results of any weight loss methods is around 5%, and losing weight and regaining weight is worse for you health than being heavy. And breathing issues are known to cause weight gain, rather than be caused by it. 

So in your view, if someone is overweight, why bother to try since they're 95% gonna fail.  Do you know what causes most regain?  When people lose weight, then stop going to the gym or go back to their old eating habits.  What you do to lose needs to stay a part of life afterward.  It's a lifestyle change, not something you do and then stop when you get where you want to be or get tired of it.  But you don't hear about that.  You only hear about how weight loss isn't really possible because they it absolves people of any responsibility when they try and then give up since it's hard and they have it in their heads that it won't last anyway, which sabotages them.

When a girl's breathing is obstructed from her weight, and needs her nasal passages surgically altered so she can breath, you really want to sit there saying that obesity and the risky surgery needed so she can BREATHE is healthier than trying to lose weight?  Really?  I mean, like, really?

We really need to stop stigmatizing being honest about the additional strain that excess weight puts on the body.  We can be honest about this without stigmatizing people for being overweight.  It's like being lazy.  We can be honest about how it's not healthy since our hearts need to be worked which happens with physical activity, without stigmatizing people who are lazy.  A lot of people would rather risk having a shorter life spent eating all the noms, some people would rather risk having a shorter life spent watching all the movies.  Having to use self-control to get a few extra years is miserable for some people.  There's nothing wrong with that when it's a choice made with honest information.   (There's a BIG problem when excess weight is caused by someone wanting to make healthier choices, but being unable to afford the higher cost of less fatty, less salty food, since the choice is taken from them.)

But spreading this idea that trying to lose weight is 95% going to fail, and that it's healthier to just remain obese than to even try losing some weight is spreading a lie, and people whose lives end up shorter because they're making their decisions considering lies like yours that they don't know are lies are on you.

A 13-year-old died because of this.  No other medical issues are known that aren't related to obesity.  If she didn't get so heavy, she wouldn't have needed this surgery, and whatever caused the bleeding, cheeseburger or popcicle or shot of vodka or singing an opera, wouldn't have happened.  People far more obese than her have lost weight just by changing eating habits, and a lot of people have to to be able to get WLS.  Yeah, you can be too big for that.  If they can lose enough to be able to move enough, she could have done the same.  I bet you that the idea that this surgery was a better option than losing probably included some thought about how weight loss doesn't really work anyway, so why waste time trying, just go for surgery.  I bet her life would have been spared if the bullshit about how weight loss doesn't really last wasn't repeated so often.

[Jug Band Baby]

On 7/3/2018 at 2:44 PM, nausicaa said:

I used to feel bad for the mother--thinking this was a mother in deep mourning who just couldn't accept the horrible truth of her young daughter passing away. 

But I suggest that anyone interested in the case look at the mother's Instagram. It's very enlightening. The mother comes off as a complete narcissist who is unabashedly using her dead daughter for attention, money, and to bully others. It's an infuriating feed. She constantly is showing off the new purses and shoes she has purchased, soliciting more donations, and openly shows how she and her family disrespected the hospital staff and the other patients in the building (setting up a house basically in one corner of the waiting room, talking loudly and watching movies at full volume at all hours of the night, eating incredibly smelly foods and leaving the remains). The woman was troubled before her daughter passed away. 

She also comes off as someone who doesn't think rules apply to her. So I can imagine the cheeseburger story being true. 

I think it was probably a popcicle because that was written in the court filings I read, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a cheeseburger in there, or maybe a burger that she claimed was a popcicle.  An autopsy at the time should have shown what.

Nailha begging for donations while living high on the hog has been concerning and is why I think this is all money.  I think she was sad initially that her daughter died, but she really did quickly start diving into the Gimmes so quickly.  This is why I'm less inclined to think that others were feeding a delusion and more inclined to think that her daughter's death was turned into a Gimme-grab.  

Jahi is such a victim from all angles.  I'm furious on her behalf.  God damn, her life was cut short, and it wasn't because of the doctors, and it wasn't because of her.  At 13, obesity was caused by the food her mother gave her access to.  That weight doesn't happen overnight.  Barring medical issues and poverty, I put it 100% on parents when their kids get so heavy that they're unhealthy.  It's on Nailha, and I think some on her grandma.  They never kept their story straight when speaking publicly.  What a tangled web they wove, and a 13-year-old was the one wrapped up in it.

Quote

It's really depressing how the dishonest HAES propaganda is beginning to infiltrate Free Jinger. Just another reason for me to despise the pathological Regan Chastain. 

Agreed.  Just because there are people at MOST sizes that defy the odds and are incredibly healthy doesn't mean that there aren't points when the body is getting overtaxed.  There are some smokers with perfect lungs when they die, as beautiful and heathy as a non-smokers.  So should we start to claim "Healthy lungs at every smoking level"?  Nope.  I am really concerned that the HAES crap is resulting in people NOT making informed choices because they keep hearing how every size is really healthy, and that saying otherwise is people just not liking fat people.  I fully support people who are happy being overweight, fat, or obese, as long as they're happy and making their eating and other lifestyle choices knowing the risks.  I plan to skydive and could shorten my life, but I'll do it knowing the risks, and people should be supportive of me making informed choices. 

[melon]

Jug and Baby,You're welcome and thank you for your kind words.

The hospital made an exception for me,and he had to be pronounced dead,plus they had to wait five minutes..the longest  few minutes,before they could proceed with harvesting the organs.

[Maggie Mae]

On 7/3/2018 at 1:44 PM, nausicaa said:

It's really depressing how the dishonest HAES propaganda is beginning to infiltrate Free Jinger. Just another reason for me to despise the pathological Regan Chastain. 

Ugh Ragen is the worst. She's so dishonest and just plain weird. I feel bad for the people who follow her as an inspiration, makes me think they don't get out much. She doesn't seem to engage with them on her websites, and she'll drop and ban even loyal followers the second they disagree with her on anything. To me, lack of honest conversation pretty much means that she knows she's got no real science to stand on. Her "research" always goes back to her own blog. She has no qualifications to be telling people to ignore medical professionals, yet she does. 

And her meme game is so not on point. 

Now I'm seeing her articles in other places and I just don't get it! She's been training for years for this Ironman and still hates running, biking, and swimming; has lost no weight, and isn't much faster from the very few times events she's finished. 

[Rachel333]

Well this is unhelpful. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/funeral-held-girl-center-brain-death-debate-56410278

Quote

She criticized the doctors who insisted her daughter was dead and said she was fighting to eliminate "brain death" as a diagnosis.

"Stop letting them pull the plug on your people," Winkfield said of doctors. "They are not God."

 

[AmazonGrace]

Re: stop letting doctors pull the  plug because  they  are not God...

It wasn't  God's decision to put her in the respirator in the first place. It wasn't  God who resuscitated her after the initial cardiac arrest. It wasn't  God who arranged her nutrition and hydration and any medication that kept her body going for so long. If it was left up to God Jahi would have been buried a long time ago.  

[Buzzard]

And Dolan himself, a "pro bono" lawyer, spoke at the funeral

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Nearly-5-years-after-being-declared-dead-Oakland-13055330.php

Quote

During a news conference held Tuesday at the San Francisco office of her pro bono lawyer, Christopher Dolan, Nailah Winkfield insisted the doctors would have fought harder to save Jahi had she been white.

Dolan echoed those sentiments in his speech at the funeral, in which he recounted an emotional meeting between Jahi’s parents and the doctors at Children’s Hospital, days after Jahi was deemed brain-dead.

He said the doctors were dismissive, staring at Nailah Winkfield and telling her to accept her daughter’s death. Funeral attendees grimaced and shook their heads.

They may have appeared dismissive BECAUSE SHE WAS DEAD.  It doesnt matter if you're black, white, or purple, unless you are Jesus dead is dead, and even Jesus wasnt on life support.  There is absolutely nothing the doctors could have done to reverse the brain damage if she was white.  Race has nothing to do with this.

And "pro bono" my ass.  He's totally on commission.

I believe for exactly zero seconds that this firm has been this public for all these years and wont take a cent if they manage to settle.  Havent we already seen him out with the family from some of their "gifts?"

[Ozlsn]

I wish the media would stop calling it a routine tonsillectomy. It wasn't routine. It was a series of procedures to cure apnoea. 

[SilverBeach]

On 7/2/2018 at 10:51 AM, legalbeagle said:

I think it's really easy to dismiss the tragedy of this case and to focus instead on the behavior of Jahi's mother and her insistence on keeping Jahi on life support for so many years. That changes the narrative from one of a young girl who died post-surgery into one where a "crazy" mother refuses to accept that her daughter is dead.

I certainly didn't dismiss the tragedy of this case, don't think I saw anyone who did. Everyone recognizes how horrible what happened to Jahi was.It has gone on for several years now, so discussion focusing on the oddness of keeping a dead child "alive" is understandable. And I do think her mother has mental issues, don't know that I would say "crazy".

I'm black, and while institutional racism is a thing, I don't believe for a minute that race had anything to do with it. Doctors cannot fix everything and everybody.

[SilverBeach]

On 7/2/2018 at 10:51 AM, legalbeagle said:

I hope Jahi can rest in peace.

I totally agree, which is what donating her brain for study is preventing. I wonder if the mother/family ever wonders if Jahi would want all the publicity focused on her lifeless body, complete with photographs and detailed descriptions.

On 7/2/2018 at 6:28 PM, legalbeagle said:

I just wanted to restore a bit of dignity to Jahi.

If only you could. Mom and her family have to do it.

[Shadoewolf]

I'm curious as to who they are donating her brain to? Did I miss that somewhere?  Are they sending it to a legitimate research facility or allowing one of the quacks under their employ do it so they can fudge the evidence for their lawsuit? 

[HarryPotterFan]

 

1 hour ago, Shadoewolf said:

I'm curious as to who they are donating her brain to? Did I miss that somewhere?  Are they sending it to a legitimate research facility or allowing one of the quacks under their employ do it so they can fudge the evidence for their lawsuit? 

I still don’t know HOW they can donate her brain. The usual process for preservation wouldn’t work. That requires a solid, intact brain. As discussed in this thread her brain would be very dissolved and the brain cavity full of spinal fluid. The doctors in my family I asked feel the same, it’s just not possible to preserve if it’s mostly fluid. You can examine brain scans, yes, but the brain itself? No idea how that would work.

[cindyluvs24]

The family was living in Franklin, I live a couple of towns over and there has been nothing in the local news about her.  I think, with NJ taxpayers having the highest burden in the country, no politician wanted to point out that we've been paying 100K per week for her for years.

[Tesseract]

RIP at last, Jahi. 

Link to a recent article on ethics and brain death:

Harvard Ethicist Robert Truog on Brain Death

 

[RainbowSky]

Honestly, nobody mentioned a cheeseburger til someone online said it iirc. It always sounded like something someone said because she's a fat chick, obviously they fed her a cheeseburger!

 

Anyway I still feel for her and her family.