Doggie Potty Issues

[bean]

I have two dogs, Sadie and Jack. I adopted Sadie about 2.5 years ago. Sadie had terrible separation anxiety and I always thought a companion dog would help, but I had to wait a while until I lived in a place with more room (was in a 1br apt at the time). About a year ago, I had moved to a townhouse and felt I could add to the household. Sadie and I met Jack and we were both smitten! He is delightful and Sadie's anxiety is long gone. Yay! But despite seeming to be potty trained, I have been finding accidents everywhere. At first I thought it was just from adjusting to a new home, then I thought it was because of an irregular schedule (my sister lived with us shortly after I adopted him and she worked waitress hours while I work regular 9-5). It seems to ebb and flow, but I can't discern a reason why. I have only actually caught him in the act once and I took him outside as quick as I could but I haven't caught him since. Most of the accidents seem to happen while I'm at work or overnight. But occasionally I'll come across as fresh one when he's been out within the last couple hours.

I know a lot of FJers have pets and I'm hoping some of you might have some advice on this? 

A few notes:

- He went to the vet about a month ago and everything looked fine. I asked the vet about the issue and he thought maybe Jack just gets bored? He did say that Jack should be able to hold it for a full work day (he's about 2-3 years old and 19 pounds).

- I'm hesitant to crate him just because it would end up being so much time in there during the week. And Sadie is not cool with crates so I don't know if it's bad to have one dog in a crate and one out? However if I know it's temporary I'm totally down. I just don't want the poor guy to be permanently relegated to a crate for 18 hours a day!

- I live in a townhouse with no yard in Minnesota so going out is a bit of a production (boots, coat, hat, harnesses, etc.) - getting out quick is a challenge! 

- I really want to be on a set schedule. Right now, we walk a mile first thing in the morning (7am weekdays, 8-ish on weekends), a mile right when I get home from work (around 5:30), then a quick potty before bed (around 9:30-10). On weekends or days I work from home we do another mile-long walk early afternoon. By the end of our walks he has emptied his bladder.

Anyway, would love help with troubleshooting!! Honestly, I have adopted older dogs because I didn't want to deal with potty training. But here I am.  Am I asking him to hold it for too long? Could it really be boredom? Do I just need to go into puppy potty training mode? I'm about to get the carpets cleaned so I want to have a plan in place so they don't get peed on again!

Holy crap that got long. Ha! Also, here's a pic of my two buds, as a reward for anyone who is able to slog through all that.  

[PennySycamore]

@bean,  you pretty much have to go into puppy potty training mode, I think.  Give lots and lots of praise (Good potty!) when the dog does his business outside, clean up any messes he makes indoors and use something like Nature's Miracle to get odors out and maybe consider using pee pads or a Potty Patch for the dog.  Crating would help too, but as you said, 18 hours a day is a long time.  Dogs won't soil where they sleep.   One thing that does occur to me (having said that about not soiling where they sleep) is that small dogs can be harder to potty train.  It doesn't take much effort to get to a place that is far enough away from where they sleep to eliminate.  

Neither of my dogs is completely 100% potty trained.  If I don't take her out, my Shih tzu will pee on a pee pad, but she will poop on the floor and then there's my dachshund.  She peed on the living room rug last night.  No wonder she didn't have to go out first thing this morning!

[bean]

Thank you @PennySycamore! I have been praising him when he potties outside, but maybe I need to take it up a notch and give him treats too. 

I have put some pee pads in the few places where he's gone multiple times. He will use them occasionally and I praise the heck out of him when I find that he's used one. Although since it's usually long after the face, I'm pretty sure he has no idea why, lol. 

According to one of those DNA tests, he is a chihuahua/cocker spaniel mix. I think I've read that both of those can be a challenge to potty train! But it's hard to stay mad at this cute face. 

[Palimpsest]

What lovely dogs.  Thanks for the photo.  They are both adorable. 

What Penny has already said, but a few more ideas.

Previous owners may have created potty issues before you adopted Jack.  If he has ever been punished for accidents he may try sneak off and go behind your back.  What does he do at weekends? Does he sneak off to mark things even when you are home instead of asking to go out?

 Some dogs have very subtle signals when they need to go out and you need to learn them.  Circling and sniffing is one.  Miss P nudges me.  Mr C barks.  Little Guy is very smart so he has learned to ring a bell when he is caught short. 

Yes, I think you will need to go back to potty training 101 - but before you do clean, clean, clean.  With an enzyme cleaner like Natures Miracle, as Penny said.  Everywhere, even if you think you have already cleaned up all the messes.  Dogs have very sensitive noses and will mark where they have before.  Is it just peeing or pooing too?

Medical stuff:  I know you said he had checked out at the vet I'd double check for a UTI if this is a new problem.  UTIs don't always show up in the first urinalysis so I'd take in another sample and ask them to run the tests again.  

I'm going to quibble a bit with your vet.  My 12lb JRT had an iron bladder and could hold it for ages.  My 25lb cocker spaniel mix couldn't hold it for nearly as long and was also a submissive pee-er.  You said that Jack was part cocker?

I do think 7:00ish - 5:30ish is rather a long time for a 19lb dog to go without a potty.  Can you take him out again immediately before you leave for work for a quick wee?  If there any chance of getting a dog walker in at lunch time?  

Belly bands can work for male dogs who want to mark when unsupervised.  I've never used them myself but some people swear by them.  Dogs apparently don't like to wear wet panties - and neither would I.   

I do still crate 2 out of 3 of my lot if I need to go out (that is a safety thing because of the one who has seizures) and they all seem perfectly happy.  It's rarely for more than 4 hours though.  If not crating, can you confine the dogs to a smaller area that is easy to clean or perhaps put Jack in an X-pen with his pee pads for a while.

The good news is that with Spring on the way potty training 101 will be less of a production, at least in terms of the need to put on layers of clothing.  Start on a weekend and take him out as often as you can.  Have a big party every time he goes and don't bring him in again until he has gone.  Yes, definitely use high value treats - you can always phase them out later!  Cheese and cooked chicken go down well here. You can also try to put elimination on cue.  I say "do your business" but people have other cues.   I'm a big fan of clicker training by the way.

If he usually tries to sneak off to pee behind your back because he's afraid of being punished, then you can also try tethering him to you when doing potty boot camp.  It means that you can rush him outdoors - or at least to a pee pad, as soon as he shows any signs of lifting a leg. 

I hope all that helps.

 

[PennySycamore]

@Palimpsest, my dachshund will go on cue.  She had doggie ADHD and gets distracted by all the interesting smells in the backyard so I have to remind her to go potty.  My Shih tzu has the best circle-and-sniff routine ever.  Unfortunately, she doesn't always realize that she has to poop until she's already back inside the house.

I'd love to have some potty bells on my backdoor but I'm not sure I could two my two beloved knuckleheads to use them.

Btw, I love the K9 avatar!  I miss K9 on the new Dr Who.

[Palimpsest]

Aw, @PennySycamore.  I love dachshunds and shih tsus.  The little dogs are often harder to potty train but it really helps if they are food motivated.  

Little Guy is so food motivated that he is fat as well as easy to train to use bells.  I have him on a diet at the moment to his disgust.  No food is ever safe from him, and I don't think I'll ever be able to train that out of him.  We have to deal with it by management.   He is a little scavenger, probably skills learned from being abandoned on the streets.   Luckily he has a really good "leave it!"

ETA.  Thanks!  K-9 was always my favorite Companion.  Someone found me a picture of a cake K-9! 

[bean]

35 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

What lovely dogs.  Thanks for the photo.  They are both adorable. 

What Penny has already said, but a few more ideas.

Previous owners may have created potty issues before you adopted Jack.  If he has ever been punished for accidents he may try sneak off and go behind your back.  What does he do at weekends? Does he sneak off to mark things even when you are home instead of asking to go out?

 Some dogs have very subtle signals when they need to go out and you need to learn them.  Circling and sniffing is one.  Miss P nudges me.  Mr C barks.  Little Guy is very smart so he has learned to ring a bell when he is caught short. 

Yes, I think you will need to go back to potty training 101 - but before you do clean, clean, clean.  With an enzyme cleaner like Natures Miracle, as Penny said.  Everywhere, even if you think you have already cleaned up all the messes.  Dogs have very sensitive noses and will mark where they have before.  Is it just peeing or pooing too?

Medical stuff:  I know you said he had checked out at the vet I'd double check for a UTI if this is a new problem.  UTIs don't always show up in the first urinalysis so I'd take in another sample and ask them to run the tests again.  

I'm going to quibble a bit with your vet.  My 12lb JRT had an iron bladder and could hold it for ages.  My 25lb cocker spaniel mix couldn't hold it for nearly as long and was also a submissive pee-er.  You said that Jack was part cocker?

I do think 7:00ish - 5:30ish is rather a long time for a 19lb dog to go without a potty.  Can you take him out again immediately before you leave for work for a quick wee?  If there any chance of getting a dog walker in at lunch time?  

Belly bands can work for male dogs who want to mark when unsupervised.  I've never used them myself but some people swear by them.  Dogs apparently don't like to wear wet panties - and neither would I.   

I do still crate 2 out of 3 of my lot if I need to go out (that is a safety thing because of the one who has seizures) and they all seem perfectly happy.  It's rarely for more than 4 hours though.  If not crating, can you confine the dogs to a smaller area that is easy to clean or perhaps put Jack in an X-pen with his pee pads for a while.

The good news is that with Spring on the way potty training 101 will be less of a production, at least in terms of the need to put on layers of clothing.  Start on a weekend and take him out as often as you can.  Have a big party every time he goes and don't bring him in again until he has gone.  Yes, definitely use high value treats - you can always phase them out later!  Cheese and cooked chicken go down well here. You can also try to put elimination on cue.  I say "do your business" but people have other cues.   I'm a big fan of clicker training by the way.

If he usually tries to sneak off to pee behind your back because he's afraid of being punished, then you can also try tethering him to you when doing potty boot camp.  It means that you can rush him outdoors - or at least to a pee pad, as soon as he shows any signs of lifting a leg. 

I hope all that helps.

 

This is so helpful, thank you! He does do better on the weekends, but will still occasionally have an accident. Most of the time it's pee, but poops will happen every once in a while - when that happens I can usually figure out why (upset tummy, didn't poop on the morning walk, etc.). He actually will tell me when he has to poop - he will stare at me and bark. But no tell for pees (that I've figured out yet anyway). 

Love the tethering and pen ideas too - I like the concept of potty boot camp.  I will also see if I can start stopping home over lunch - I am only about 5 miles away. 

and you are right - with spring coming along (yay!!), potty breaks will be much easier. 

I have liver jerky in the oven as we speak, he loves that stuff. I got that excellent idea over in one of the Sarah Maxwell threads (was it even from you?). 

[Palimpsest]

You are very welcome, @bean

It sounds as though you are doing a very good job with Jack and good luck with potty boot camp.  I also forgot to congratulate you on coping with Sadie's SA.  That can be very difficult to deal with.

No, the liver idea didn't come from me.  My dogs would probably give their right paws for home-made liver jerky but the smell of it cooking makes me gag!

Let us know how it goes, please.

[bean]

Thank you @Palimpsest. Yeah, the SA was something else! I muddled through with doggie daycare and neighbor kids and a much quieter social life.  

Will definitely let you know how "boot camp" goes! Will try for next weekend I think.