Donald Trump - Merged

[louisa05]

The GOP does not have enough unpledged delegates to prevent a nomination if it is won in the primaries. The Democrats do, but their system is different. 

The more likely scenario is that if Cruz and Rubio can win enough delegates combined in the early proportionally allotted states then hold their delegates rather than "releasing" them to vote for the presumptive nominee at the convention--as is customarily done--the convention could be brokered and another candidate could be nominated from the floor. Today's delegate outcomes are, thus, extremely important.

[OnceUponATime]

4 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

And I feel like he just doesn't try to couch his lies at all. Which most politicians do.

I'm pretty sure this is why people still follow him.

I'm sure somewhere in the depth of idiots commenting on Facebook I read something along the lines of "Sure he's lying, but he's straight up and honest about lying, so it makes it ok".

[sawasdee]

21 minutes ago, sparkles said:

Oh I know it happens all the time. And yes, it used to be worse when the public hardly voted for any of their "elected" officials; it was all done by the party. But this is Trump we're talking about. No way would he roll over if the delegates chose not to vote for him. He sues people if he thinks they look at him funny. And I don't think it would matter to him one bit that he didn't have a leg to stand on constitutionally.

But if you watched the Oliver video earlier, he says that Trump always threatens to sue, tries to bully with the threat of suing, but never does - and when sued, settles. He's a blowhard, not a committed or serious candidate -I think that at the moment he is drunk on his own rhetoric, and hasn't even begun to think through a real electoral programme.

What astounds me is the number of voters who have not realised that. And that could lead to a Trump candidacy - or,FSM forbid, a Trump presidency.

[OnceUponATime]

35 minutes ago, sawasdee said:

a Trump presidency.

secretly I'm looking forward to this. I will buy stocks in a popcorn company and sit on my couch watching what will become an awesome politics-based reality tv show*. It's going to be way more entertaining than Counting On - that's for sure.

*At least that is what I'm going to convince myself it is

[sawasdee]

9 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

secretly I'm looking forward to this. I will buy stocks in a popcorn company and sit on my couch watching would will become an awesome politics-based reality tv show*. It's going to be way more entertaining than Counting On - that's for sure.

*At least that is what I'm going to convince myself it is

PLEASE don't reinforce my nightmares!

[2manyKidzzz]

53 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

I'm pretty sure this is why people still follow him.

I'm sure somewhere in the depth of idiots commenting on Facebook I read something along the lines of "Sure he's lying, but he's straight up and honest about lying, so it makes it ok".

Well, it doesn't make it okay....but it makes it real. I get pissed when they have lied, I didn't know, and THEN I am pissed. Anyway,. they all lie. It's part of the territory. Really, they are all so annoying. well, maybe not Bernie. 

[OnceUponATime]

The problem with Trump is that he only owns a portion of his lies. The rest  become conspiracies or lies of those against him (I'm not suggesting trump is behind all of that). 

So while he might seem more admirable for owning lies, he really is just as bad, if not worse than the others.

[heidi]

The way Trump lies reminds me of how abusers and narcissists gaslight their victims. 

And speaking of narcissists, I think that Trump fits the hallmarks of someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder to a tee:

Quote

• Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
• Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
• Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
• Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
• Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
• Requires excessive admiration
• Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
• Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
• Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

More on NPD here: https://www.bpdcentral.com/narcissistic-disorder/hallmarks-of-npd/

[mango_fandango]

He lost in Texas and Oklahoma. Beaten by Cruz. Both have equally punchable faces. 

Damn, I complain when the Conservatives get into power here, but I'd hate living in a country where the idea of Trump potentially becoming president is a reality. (OK, he may not, but he's likely to win the nomination so I'd still be scared).

[AnywhereButHere]

Chris Christie is baffled by whatever is living on Trump's head (or what's coming out of his mouth - not too sure though that I want to give Christie that much credit). Does this pairing mean Christie is in the running for a Trump VP? 

[Pennyrose]

Vox has an article up about Trump and the rise of Authoritarianism that is a good read: 

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism

Quote

Authoritarians prioritize social order and hierarchies, which bring a sense of control to a chaotic world. Challenges to that order — diversity, influx of outsiders, breakdown of the old order — are experienced as personally threatening because they risk upending the status quo order they equate with basic security.

.....

When they face physical threats or threats to the status quo, authoritarians support policies that seem to offer protection against those fears. They favor forceful, decisive action against things they perceive as threats. And they flock to political leaders who they believe will bring this action.

If you were to read every word these theorists ever wrote on authoritarians, and then try to design a hypothetical candidate to match their predictions of what would appeal to authoritarian voters, the result would look a lot like Donald Trump.

Same thing feeding into fundamentalism - societal change, diversification, etc. 

I'm in Canada, and we had a similar election this past fall in that one candidate was trying to play off fear of outsiders of all types, while another saw our diversity and inclusiveness as a strength. Luckily fear lost Harper the election. 

Hopefully fear will be an ultimately loosing strategy in the US too. 

[turquoise]

16 hours ago, heidi said:

The way Trump lies reminds me of how abusers and narcissists gaslight their victims. 

And speaking of narcissists, I think that Trump fits the hallmarks of someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder to a tee:

More on NPD here: https://www.bpdcentral.com/narcissistic-disorder/hallmarks-of-npd/

I've thought this as well. I seriously think Trump has psychological problems and is not fit to be president. Can you imagine him in a standoff with North Korea, with access to the nuclear codes?

I thought this article below was interesting. The former CIA director suggests that the military would refuse to follow Trump's orders if they are unlawful.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/28/former-cia-director-military-may-refuse-to-follow-trumps-orders-if-he-becomes-president/

If Trump is elected, my only hope is that the Republicans and Democrats in Congress will unite to prevent him from doing anything. With any luck, they will impeach him and vote him out of office.

 

[ShepherdontheRock]

Okay, so I hate Trump as much as anyone but am I the only one who thinks that talking about he's like the "next Hitler" and invoking Godwin's Law is taking it too far?

I think we need to calm way down. I think there's a good possibility that even if Trump gets the nomination he will lose spectacularly to Clinton...

[louisa05]

59 minutes ago, ShepherdontheRock said:

Okay, so I hate Drumpf as much as anyone but am I the only one who thinks that talking about he's like the "next Hitler" and invoking Godwin's Law is taking it too far?

I think we need to calm way down. I think there's a good possibility that even if Drumpf gets the nomination he will lose spectacularly to Clinton...

I don't think he is the "next Hitler", because we still have checks and balances. But, at the same time, the GOP has demonstrated quite clearly for the last 7+ years that they will put their party above all else. Shutting down the government is not in the best interest of the country or their constituents, yet they did it to make a Democrat look bad. So I don't have a lot of faith in a GOP majority Congress holding a President Trump in check. 

I also don't have a lot of faith in Clinton beating him. Last national poll I saw had him at 49%. And he seems to be attracting independent support in the primary which is what he would need to win swing states in November. The traditional red/blue splits in non-swing states will hold. I know people who would vote Republican even if Hitler himself re-emerged and were running on a Holocaust platform. One huge factor among the Republicans I know who are like this is abortion, abortion, abortion. If it comes down to screaming Trump (who will claim to be anti-abortion for the moment) for the GOP versus a pro-choice Clinton, they will hold their noses and vote for Trump even though some of them are vocally opposing him now. 

[meda]

I just finished reading "Dark Money" by Jane Mayer, which is a really well researched look at all the money sloshing around right wing think tanks and Super PACs, and how a small group of billionaires have simply purchased a large chunk of Congress through both overt contributions and more covert methods like running (i.e. funding) primary challengers from the right.  It explains both the baffling decisions made by congressional leaders, (repeated pointless votes to repeal the ACA, the gov shutdown, refusing to consider a SCOTUS nominee) and the 2012 GOP presidential primaries and how candidates like Bachman, Gingrich, etc were able to stay in for so long-they each had a few pet billionaires funding their campaigns. To prevent this from happening again, the Republicans changed their primary system to try and get a definitive presumptive winner shortly after Super Tuesday. The problem is, now there is Trump and that's backfired on them.  I have to say, if Trump wins at least I will know that the only person he is beholden to is himself. Unlike Cruz and Rubio who are bought and paid for by the Kochs, Bechtels, Olins, and other assorted oligarchs.

[CloakNDagger]

1 hour ago, ShepherdontheRock said:

Okay, so I hate Trump as much as anyone but am I the only one who thinks that talking about he's like the "next Hitler" and invoking Godwin's Law is taking it too far?

I think we need to calm way down. I think there's a good possibility that even if Trump gets the nomination he will lose spectacularly to Clinton...

I don't. He's right wing, he's clearly somewhat racist, he's good dictator material, he's appealing to extreme nationalists, he's not really the "conservative"people imagine him to be.

[2manyKidzzz]

He will lose to Hills. And if people are so damn upset, they need to get out and campaign for Hills and stop spewing hate on facebook and other places. A waste of time. Do something. 

Take action. Campaign hard for Hills. Trump is a showman. He is a very successful business man. I don't think he can beat Hillary just based on the hate I see written about him. Actually, Cruz and Rubio did get votes although they lost, it wasn't a wipeout, so she will beat him. I think Republicans will for for her if he goes off the rails. She will be the one. Can't say I'm excited, but there ya go. 

[sparkles]

2 hours ago, ShepherdontheRock said:

Okay, so I hate Trump as much as anyone but am I the only one who thinks that talking about he's like the "next Hitler" and invoking Godwin's Law is taking it too far?

I think we need to calm way down. I think there's a good possibility that even if Trump gets the nomination he will lose spectacularly to Clinton...

I know I mentioned Godwin upthread, mainly because of what I see in his supporters. As Louisa05 said, I'm not so concerned about Trump himself, because of our checks and balances, but his followers are a whole different story. We're already seeing some of them get out of control at his rallies and I don't think it'll be too long before one or more of them goes further. Trump himself eggs them on by the things he says and his overall demeanor. I wasn't kidding when I said the crowd frenzy reminded me very much of Nazi Germany and I don't think I was off the mark. 

[TuringMachine]

Personally I think Drumpf has a very poor chance in the general election. I can't see a significant amount democrats or independents voting for him, and many many members of the party he's running in hate him and might actually vote Hillary over him.  So once you get everyone voting, the democrats, independents, and people who just didn't vote in the primaries, I don't think he'd have anywhere near a majority.

[sawasdee]

7 minutes ago, TuringMachine said:

Personally I think Drumpf has a very poor chance in the general election. I can't see a significant amount democrats or independents voting for him, and many many members of the party he's running in hate him and might actually vote Hillary over him.  So once you get everyone voting, the democrats, independents, and people who just didn't vote in the primaries, I don't think he'd have anywhere near a majority.

From your mouth to the FSM's ear!

On another thread, @vienna had a lovely quote from Pope Francis, to the effect that real Christians don't build walls, they build bridges.

 

[Maggie Mae]

1 hour ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

He will lose to Hills. And if people are so damn upset, they need to get out and campaign for Hills and stop spewing hate on facebook and other places. A waste of time. Do something. 

Take action. Campaign hard for Hills. Trump is a showman. He is a very successful business man. I don't think he can beat Hillary just based on the hate I see written about him. Actually, Cruz and Rubio did get votes although they lost, it wasn't a wipeout, so she will beat him. I think Republicans will for for her if he goes off the rails. She will be the one. Can't say I'm excited, but there ya go. 

Except, no, I won't campaign or contribute a dime to Clinton. She's a boring candidate, she lies a lot, and I just don't care enough about her to campaign to bother. Even preventing Trump (which I don't' think is actually possible) can't make me care. I haven't ever felt like this about politics before, which I don't like, but I don't know how to make it better. I would go further into my reasons that Hillary is a terrible choice, but everyone has made up their mind already. 

[vienna]

Thanks @sawasdee for pointing me to this thread. I just found thr original Quote .

"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel," the Pope told journalists who asked his opinion on Trump's proposals to halt illegal immigration.

Took it from CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/18/politics/pope-francis-trump-christian-wall/

[FundieFarmer]

I'm actually really stressed out about this election. 

I hate all of the Republican't candidates because of women's rights issues and anybody who thinks they can tell a rape victim "I know how you feel" cannot be president, #sorrynotsorry I get that is unreasonable but whatever, women's rights and healthcare are two of the platforms I actually care about so that kind of kills everybody in that whole party.

I hate Trump, so he's out. 

I agree that Clinton is a pathological sketchball, so I don't want to put a vote that direction.

And Bernie...I just don't really agree with him on a lot of issues, so he's out too. 

So...checkmate FundieFarmer?

[2manyKidzzz]

Will people vote for Hills to keep Trump out? I dont know. Politics is not my passion or my religion. Speaking of religion, The Pope needs to clean his own house before he criticises ours. the latest revelations from a diocese in PA and the movie Spotlight emphasize that. 

Only Republicans voted for Trump yesterday, and if Rubio drops out, maybe those votes could go towards Cruz. I don't want him either. He is not better than Trump, he wants to control people according to his religious whims. Immigration, screening people coming in and etc. None of these guys are the baby Jesus. And, we know Hills is not. 

the interesting thing to me is to look at where Trumps' rise is coming from. I'm sure the book is already being written. I cannot imagine he will be elected. And, at least if Hillie is Prez, she has a better hairdo than when she was sec of state, she looked so horrible I couldn't believe it. Good grooming, woman, when you are representing your nation at such a high level. She looked like something the cat dragged in. maybe she was. This is my shallow side, never far from the surface. I really cannot abide her. 

[Maggie Mae]

 

1 minute ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

Only Republicans voted for Trump yesterday, and if Rubio drops out, maybe those votes could go towards Cruz. I don't want him either. He is not better than Trump, he wants to control people according to his religious whims. Immigration, screening people coming in and etc. None of these guys are the baby Jesus. And, we know Hills is not. 

the interesting thing to me is to look at where Trumps' rise is coming from. I'm sure the book is already being written. I cannot imagine he will be elected. And, at least if Hillie is Prez, she has a better hairdo than when she was sec of state, she looked so horrible I couldn't believe it. Good grooming, woman, when you are representing your nation at such a high level. She looked like something the cat dragged in. maybe she was. This is my shallow side, never far from the surface. I really cannot abide her. 

WHY do you keep referring to Clinton as "Hillie" and "Hills?" Seriously. She's running for President of the United States. And if the Trump's hair can look like it does, why would you criticize her hair? I don't like her policies or her corporate backing, but geez. Women in politics and business shouldn't be criticized for their grooming!