FamTeam Update

[turquoise]

18 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

I had come across an entry in Rick's diary from back in the early 2000's where he talks about a turtle he once found along side of the road.  He brought it home and kept it in the back yard.  I can't find the exact entry right now so I don't have all the details, but the turtle ended up escaping and was run over by a car.  He talked about how he didn't instill enough "tough love" on the turtle like he does with his boys and the turtle decided to stray ultimately being killed. 

"Tough love?" He thinks he could have disciplined a turtle?

I don't know if this is true of all turtle species, but box turtles live within a small territory near where they hatch. If you remove a turtle from its home territory, it will try to go back to the place it knows. That poor turtle Rick penned up was probably just trying to go home.

[MatthewDuggar]

11 minutes ago, Elegant Mess said:

   

I honestly hope you're remembering that diary entry wrong, because that's a level of WTF far beyond what I ever imagined.

He certainly did use it.  Maybe not in the way you are thinking.  I found it - enjoy:

July 2, 2001

 

An interesting experience happened recently. Cathy and I were driving on a
lonely stretch of country road, and I saw a turtle in the middle of it. Despite
its hard shell, I knew it was very vulnerable to immediate danger. I stopped our
car in the road, got out, and promptly "adopted" the turtle, knowing
it would have soon been killed.

At home I made a special place for the turtle, bestowing on him his own area
— the screened-in back porch. I instructed everyone about how close to danger
Checkers (his new name) had been to losing his life, and emphasized that we must
care for him, giving him water and food daily. Once I found him stupidly on his
back, helpless, and we rescued him.

I began to feel that maybe I was being a bit too fatherly with Checkers,
keeping him confined in the porch. I reluctantly agreed to be more liberal, and
let him have a section of the yard that we tried to block off. I found myself
thinking of Checkers throughout the days, squeezing out space in my brain and
time in my schedule to even call from the office once and ask someone to check
on him.

One day, when I checked on how he was doing, I was met with the sad news that
he had left the world of safety that I had given him! I was surprised at the
ache in my heart! After all, I had many children of my own! I wondered how he
would fare, away from the safe world that I was trying to

provide for him. I even sent a prayer heavenward for his safety.

Two nights ago Cathy and I were pulling in to our driveway from Main Street,
and there we saw what remained of Checkers — face up and flattened in Main
Street, only three feet or so from our property line. Of all places for him to
be hit — so close to our yard!

Today he is still visible in the street, a sad patch of orange on the
concrete. I still wrestle with the question — should I have reined him in a
bit, displayed "tough love," and kept him alive, but more confined? Or
, as with all children, is free will something you just cannot conquer in the
long run without the cooperation of the child? Checkers chose to leave, and
chose to head toward the highway, as he had in the country. Maybe the quiet
greenery of our yard was too dull for him. Anyway, he had a short adventure
after breaking away from us, before being pancaked. We will never know, but
apparently in his poor little turtle brain, the freedom was worth more to him
than the security of safety.

What should or could I have done differently, I wonder. These same questions
("Father, what could I have done to prevent this?") are ringing in our
ears this week after the sudden suicide of someone from a neighboring church,
whose death has stunned many.

It sometimes hurts to care, and to love, and to risk losing what you love. I
know just a bit of what the Father must feel for us!

As a final postscript, my conclusion is that I should indeed have exercised
more "tough love" with Checkers, as I strive to do with my own kids.
It is a little lesson from God — a nudge — regarding where liberal,
subjective, emotion-led parenting can lead, even with the best of intentions.
Children need the firm love of clear limitations that permit them to feel like
— well, children — rather than little adults.

[gustava]

6 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

He certainly did use it.  Maybe not in the way you are thinking.  I found it - enjoy:

July 2, 2001

 

An interesting experience happened recently. Cathy and I were driving on a
lonely stretch of country road, and I saw a turtle in the middle of it. Despite
its hard shell, I knew it was very vulnerable to immediate danger. I stopped our
car in the road, got out, and promptly "adopted" the turtle, knowing
it would have soon been killed.

At home I made a special place for the turtle, bestowing on him his own area
— the screened-in back porch. I instructed everyone about how close to danger
Checkers (his new name) had been to losing his life, and emphasized that we must
care for him, giving him water and food daily. Once I found him stupidly on his
back, helpless, and we rescued him.

I began to feel that maybe I was being a bit too fatherly with Checkers,
keeping him confined in the porch. I reluctantly agreed to be more liberal, and
let him have a section of the yard that we tried to block off. I found myself
thinking of Checkers throughout the days, squeezing out space in my brain and
time in my schedule to even call from the office once and ask someone to check
on him.

One day, when I checked on how he was doing, I was met with the sad news that
he had left the world of safety that I had given him! I was surprised at the
ache in my heart! After all, I had many children of my own! I wondered how he
would fare, away from the safe world that I was trying to

provide for him. I even sent a prayer heavenward for his safety.

Two nights ago Cathy and I were pulling in to our driveway from Main Street,
and there we saw what remained of Checkers — face up and flattened in Main
Street, only three feet or so from our property line. Of all places for him to
be hit — so close to our yard!

Today he is still visible in the street, a sad patch of orange on the
concrete. I still wrestle with the question — should I have reined him in a
bit, displayed "tough love," and kept him alive, but more confined? Or
, as with all children, is free will something you just cannot conquer in the
long run without the cooperation of the child? Checkers chose to leave, and
chose to head toward the highway, as he had in the country. Maybe the quiet
greenery of our yard was too dull for him. Anyway, he had a short adventure
after breaking away from us, before being pancaked. We will never know, but
apparently in his poor little turtle brain, the freedom was worth more to him
than the security of safety.

What should or could I have done differently, I wonder. These same questions
("Father, what could I have done to prevent this?") are ringing in our
ears this week after the sudden suicide of someone from a neighboring church,
whose death has stunned many.

It sometimes hurts to care, and to love, and to risk losing what you love. I
know just a bit of what the Father must feel for us!

As a final postscript, my conclusion is that I should indeed have exercised
more "tough love" with Checkers, as I strive to do with my own kids.
It is a little lesson from God — a nudge — regarding where liberal,
subjective, emotion-led parenting can lead, even with the best of intentions.
Children need the firm love of clear limitations that permit them to feel like
— well, children — rather than little adults.

Bull Shit.  He made that up.

1 hour ago, salex said:

I thought a couple of the older boys had mentioned wanting to marry, several years ago on their blog/comments-- or Dad had mentioned it in some long winded and long and winding drive?

I can't remember.

 

I think you are correct, but I cannot bear the agony of going back through Arndt history.

[Elegant Mess]

1 hour ago, MatthewDuggar said:

Today he is still visible in the street, a sad patch of orange on the
concrete. I still wrestle with the question — should I have reined him in a
bit, displayed "tough love," and kept him alive, but more confined? Or
, as with all children, is free will something you just cannot conquer in the
long run without the cooperation of the child? Checkers chose to leave, and
chose to head toward the highway, as he had in the country. Maybe the quiet
greenery of our yard was too dull for him. Anyway, he had a short adventure
after breaking away from us, before being pancaked. We will never know, but
apparently in his poor little turtle brain, the freedom was worth more to him
than the security of safety.

Wow!  You weren't kidding!  Thanks for posting that.

Amidst all that elaborate description of poor Checkers, I'm wondering if he uses this story as a guilt trip technique on any of the manboys.  Stay safe at home, or go out into the world and get run over by life.  

 

[MatthewDuggar]

8 minutes ago, Elegant Mess said:

Wow!  You weren't kidding!  Thanks for posting that.

Amidst all that elaborate description of poor Checkers, I'm wondering if he uses this story as a guilt trip technique on any of the manboys.  Stay safe at home, or go out into the world and get run over by life.  

 

Without a doubt!   He always mentions stories about "single mothers" and "unfortunate" things that happen to them.  I can image he has both turtle and real-life stories to brain-wash the boys.

I just can't help what some of these clients of the photography boys think about the family.  Someone has had to have questioned them or cornered them at some point about what's going on... 

[anjulibai]

Oh my god, that is just bizarre....

I think Mark mentioned wanting to get married. 

[JenniferJuniper]

31 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Oh my god, that is just bizarre....

I think Mark mentioned wanting to get married. 

Mark and I think Luke.

Mark once described in detail some fantasy girl he would like to marry.  Guess she never dropped down the chimney.

The turtle story...Jesus!

[anjulibai]

6 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Mark and I think Luke.

Mark once described in detail some fantasy girl he would like to marry.  Guess she never dropped down the chimney.

The turtle story...Jesus!

Poor guys.  They are so messed up. 

[DaffyDill]

16 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Mark and I think Luke.

Mark once described in detail some fantasy girl he would like to marry.  Guess she never dropped down the chimney.

The turtle story...Jesus!

I remember that, too. It was kind of sad really. He was so hopeful, and then clueless on any details, like where he was going to meet this wonderful girl. IIRC they just mentioned "one day meeting" a girl, but not where, or how.

I feel really sorry for them. I mean they seem like honest, fun loving, hard working guys, and although some of the anti abortion propaganda they post is a bit awful, they're pretty harmless.

[socalrules]

I never thought much about how close in age the kids are. Did Cathy have any help like a nanny or relatives raising the kids? Didn't Papa Ardnt work as a court reporter for awhile, so he would be out of the house during the day? How did she do it without sister moms? Did they use the buddy system?

[snickerz]

Wow, that turtle story explains SO MUCH!

[Sweet Fellowship]

6 hours ago, snickerz said:

Wow, that turtle story explains SO MUCH!

Yep. It made me feel quite sick to my stomach. Those poor kidults.

[Peas n carrots]

Would a turtle really respond to tough love? da Fuq did I just read?

I just can't imagine a man my age never having had any physical and/or emotional relationship with a person and being totally OK with it. Is it really possible to have that many guys with low T? Could they possibly have or have had partners on the DL?

I tend to think there is some heavy group think going on with the boys. Likely none of them want to be the first to wander outside mommy and daddy's umbrella of protection.

[nokidsmom]

10 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

Without a doubt!   He always mentions stories about "single mothers" and "unfortunate" things that happen to them.  I can image he has both turtle and real-life stories to brain-wash the boys.

I just can't help what some of these clients of the photography boys think about the family.  Someone has had to have questioned them or cornered them at some point about what's going on... 

The turtle story explains a lot.   Rick took it extremely personally that Checkers wandered away from the Arndt Safety Zone.  Good bet that the manboys have heard a lot of these type  stories and I am with @Peas n carrots that none of them want to be the first to leave.   Can you imagine the handwringing and guilt tripping?   Not just from the parents but from the siblings too.

There has have been people, be it clients, relatives, perhaps even friends who have questioned them about when any of them will get around to leaving home.   

I would like to think that some of the manboys have dated or have had partners that has been kept very quiet, perhaps even from Rick and Cathy, but when you read stuff like this.....

10 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Mark once described in detail some fantasy girl he would like to marry.  Guess she never dropped down the chimney.

I can't see them getting very far.

It does get me wondering though, there's been talk about some tension in the family, wonder if a manboy did have someone he was interested in and it got shot down.   Maybe not recently, but some time ago and now same manboy is looking back and figuring out some things such as what the problem is.

[turquoise]

14 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

 

An interesting experience happened recently. Cathy and I were driving on a
lonely stretch of country road, and I saw a turtle in the middle of it. Despite
its hard shell, I knew it was very vulnerable to immediate danger. I stopped our
car in the road, got out, and promptly "adopted" the turtle, knowing
it would have soon been killed.

<snip>

What should or could I have done differently, I wonder.

 

If Rick really wanted to help the turtle, he  should have picked it up and put it on the other side of the road, in the same direction it was heading. Wild turtles should be left in the wild.

Checkers didn't get killed because he was stupid, or because he foolishly chose freedom over security. Rick went against Checkers' own nature by trying to keep him on a screened porch. Checkers wanted to get back to the territory he knew, which meant he had to cross the road---which means that Rick was actually putting him in danger, rather than keeping him safe.

I'm thinking there's a lesson here about helping your children find their own place in the world instead of forcing them to conform to what you want. Sadly, I don't think Rick will see that.

[MarblesMom]

14 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

his poor little turtle brain

An accurate description of Papa Arndt's....

[AnywhereButHere]

Wow. That was - disturbing and warped. I have a feeling that the Arndts are one day going to inspire the plot of a Criminal Minds episode.

What's wrong with Rick is no small thing.

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, turquoise said:

If Rick really wanted to help the turtle, he  should have picked it up and put it on the other side of the road, in the same direction it was heading. Wild turtles should be left in the wild.

Checkers didn't get killed because he was stupid, or because he foolishly chose freedom over security. Rick went against Checkers' own nature by trying to keep him on a screened porch. Checkers wanted to get back to the territory he knew, which meant he had to cross the road---which means that Rick was actually putting him in danger, rather than keeping him safe.

I'm thinking there's a lesson here about helping your children find their own place in the world instead of forcing them to conform to what you want. Sadly, I don't think Rick will see that.

Very well said.  

Insert any of the manboys' names for Checkers and you have the same thing. 

[JenniferJuniper]

2 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

Very well said.  

Insert any of the manboys' names for Checkers and you have the same thing. 

Also interesting how he equates "liberalism" with allowing Checkers to be the natural creature that he was.

Logically then, this must mean that Rick equates conservatism with captivity, and that captivity is a far better thing than freedom because if you're locked up "safe at home" you'll never get run over by a bus.  Or get a chance to start thinking for yourself and God forbid turn into a Democrat or - horrors! - an atheist.

If anyone needs proof that Rick Arndt is very seriously mentally ill, the Checkers the Turtle story should put any doubts to rest. 

[quiversR4hunting]

5 hours ago, Peas n carrots said:

I just can't imagine a man my age never having had any physical and/or emotional relationship with a person and being totally OK with it. Is it really possible to have that many guys with low T?

Several have mentioned this before so I had to go to the know it all Google. I found this article:
http://www.anabolicmen.com/foods-that-decrease-testosterone/

It claims these 7 items cause low T:

1. Flaxseed Products
2. Licorice
3. High-PUFA Vegetable Oils
4. Mint, Peppermint, Spearmint…
5. Alcohol
6. Soy Products
7. Trans-Fats

The info under Flaxseed was very interesting

Quote

You see, flax products are incredibly dense in compounds called “lingans”. In fact, flaxseeds are known of having dietary lignan levels 800-fold over that of most other foods.
 
Why would this be a problem?
 
Well, not only are the lignans highly estrogenic, there’s some evidence suggesting that they reduce total and free testosterone levels, while also suppressing the enzyme 5-a reductase which converts testosterone into its more potent form of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Lignans work by increasing the levels of SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin), which binds into free-testosterone molecules and renders them “inactive” for the direct use of the androgen receptors.

Firstly, there’s a case-study of this 31-year old woman who had high testosterone levels which caused her to develop a condition called hirsutism (excessive facial hair growth). In an effort to control the hirsutism and drive down her high T-levels, the researchers told her to eat 30g/day of flaxseeds for 4 months. The results? Serum total testosterone dropped by a whopping 70%, and free-testosterone went down by a staggering 89%.....

The article goes into what it does to men. It isn't as significant in men however it does lower T by 10-20%. Flax seed can be put in most foods without being noticed.

Licorice at 7g/day for 4 days the subjects T levels decreased by 35%.

Note: the article links to the scientific studies of each of these foods.

[MamaJunebug]

I'm insulted on Checkers' behalf that DICK described him as "stupidly" on his back. 

Turtles aren't stupid or smart -- they have the instincts, drives, protections and vulnerabilities that Nature gave them. Checkers was on his back because of either (a) an accident in which he lost balance 

or

(b) another being who put him in that position. I'm not implicating an Arndt-child -- it could have been a dog or cat that nosed the the turtle into the position.  

Land absolutely, yes, Checkers needed to be taken across the road, left in his natural element; not confined. 

I asked before what D & C get out of having 10 grown adults at home, and I mentioned my acquaintance who with his bro stayed home til their early 50s (when their mother died).  My acquaintance was overly sentimental and given to fits of purple prose over little animals, etc. Still had every toy he'd ever received, packed neatly in boxes, but, still.

Very similar to D's foolish protectiveness toward a wild creature, as well as his moralizing over the beast's demise. Come on, Dick, that's the circle of life. Nothing exists forever...

Wonder if there's a word to describe this mindset??

[season of life]

It's 1:45pm in New York and I am sitting at home reading about a possibly disturbed man's personal experience with a runaway turtle named Checkers. When they tell you not to fall down the rabbit hole, they mean it!

But seriously, I can't imagine what it's like living in a home with those parents.

[0 kids n not countin]

Mark definitely wanted/wants to get married.  Here is a link to several articles he wrote on the topic that used to be posted on their website:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20080308084834/http://famteam.com/waiting/

 

Poor guy, 8 years later (from the 2008 article) and he's still waiting....

[JenniferJuniper]

50 minutes ago, 0 kids n not countin said:

Mark definitely wanted/wants to get married.  Here is a link to several articles he wrote on the topic that used to be posted on their website:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20080308084834/http://famteam.com/waiting/

 

Poor guy, 8 years later (from the 2008 article) and he's still waiting....

He sounds just like a SAHD pining for Prince Charming.

Rick, you are a selfish ass.

[AnywhereButHere]

55 minutes ago, 0 kids n not countin said:

Mark definitely wanted/wants to get married.  Here is a link to several articles he wrote on the topic that used to be posted on their website:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20080308084834/http://famteam.com/waiting/

 

Poor guy, 8 years later (from the 2008 article) and he's still waiting....

Go, Mark go! Be the successful turtle. Cross that road and find your life! Learn the lesson that Checkers was meant to teach you!

(And yup. I've officially lost it. I'm as loopy as Rick...)