Speaking of being PC...

[PregnantPornStar]

I

 A person with PTSD does have other tools they can use.  Be it support groups, mental health providers, etc.  All of which they can provide for themselves (starting a group, paying for a mental health provider, etc) or have others provide for them (go to a established support group, use health care/insurance for mental health providers, etc) 

 

 

Please provide ANY support or evidence for the this bizarre claim that "other tools" available to people with PTSD will somehow eliminate the benefits of having trigger warnings as a tool.  Not just for some people, but for ALL people with PTSD - even the most severe.  As people have been saying, some issues that result in people appreciating trigger warnings ARE treatable (over TIME - should they isolate until "fixed"?) while others are NOT and may well be with the person for life.

 

ETA - never said I was "foeing" you.  Pretty sure I said something like "ignoring for now".

No, because Google can do that for you and I have no desire to argue every.single.statement with you. I have backed up plenty of what I have had to say and I think (or rather hope) people are capable of looking into things on their own. While I "generally" have no issue with backing up what I say, as I have clearly done in multiple threads, I will not constantly roll-over and spoon feed you things when a good reminder of "Google is your friend" is a better response

However, why don't you provide me with evidence that these lifelong "issues" are best served with TWs.

Also, it is never on the person to prove the non-existence of something. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist or that drinking unicorn blood will NOT keep me alive.

Lastly, ignore me, foe me, same difference. Don't demand a response from me while claiming you are going to ignore me. That, my dear, is very self-centered.

[Whoosh]

I

 A person with PTSD does have other tools they can use.  Be it support groups, mental health providers, etc.  All of which they can provide for themselves (starting a group, paying for a mental health provider, etc) or have others provide for them (go to a established support group, use health care/insurance for mental health providers, etc) 

 

 

 

Please provide ANY support or evidence for the this bizarre claim that "other tools" available to people with PTSD will somehow eliminate the benefits of having trigger warnings as a tool.  Not just for some people, but for ALL people with PTSD - even the most severe.  As people have been saying, some issues that result in people appreciating trigger warnings ARE treatable (over TIME - should they isolate until "fixed"?) while others are NOT and may well be with the person for life.

 

ETA - never said I was "foeing" you.  Pretty sure I said something like "ignoring for now".

 

 

No, because Google can do that for you and I have no desire to argue every.single.statement with you. I have backed up plenty of what I have had to say and I think (or rather hope) people are capable of looking into things on their own. While I "generally" have no issue with backing up what I say, as I have clearly done in multiple threads, I will not constantly roll-over and spoon feed you things when a good reminder of "Google is your friend" is a better response

 

However, why don't you provide me with evidence that these lifelong "issues" are best served with TWs.

 

Also, it is never on the person to prove the non-existence of something. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist or that drinking unicorn blood will NOT keep me alive.

 

Lastly, ignore me, foe me, same difference. Don't demand a response from me while claiming you are going to ignore me. That, my dear, is very self-centered.

 

 

 

LOL - actually, you really HAVE NOT backed up what you are saying and it is very clear from your posts that you either have limited knowledge on the topic of PTSD treatment success OR you think that people in the process of recovering and people who never recover are somehow not worthy.

Two seconds on google - 

 

• Approximately 60% will completely recover with no further symptoms.
• The next 35% have a varying level of recovery from full recovery that takes years, to partial recovery, yet allowing them to participate in life via employment, education, relationships and so forth.
• The remaining 5%, approximately, will have what is deemed life-time PTSD. This means they will never successfully hold full-time employment or be able to participate in life socially for extended periods, being days, maybe a week or two, before they get crushed by symptoms and need to adopt their retreat and management principles.

[PregnantPornStar]

I A person with PTSD does have other tools they can use.  Be it support groups, mental health providers, etc.  All of which they can provide for themselves (starting a group, paying for a mental health provider, etc) or have others provide for them (go to a established support group, use health care/insurance for mental health providers, etc) 

 

 

 

 

Please provide ANY support or evidence for the this bizarre claim that "other tools" available to people with PTSD will somehow eliminate the benefits of having trigger warnings as a tool.  Not just for some people, but for ALL people with PTSD - even the most severe.  As people have been saying, some issues that result in people appreciating trigger warnings ARE treatable (over TIME - should they isolate until "fixed"?) while others are NOT and may well be with the person for life. 

ETA - never said I was "foeing" you.  Pretty sure I said something like "ignoring for now".

 

 

 

No, because Google can do that for you and I have no desire to argue every.single.statement with you. I have backed up plenty of what I have had to say and I think (or rather hope) people are capable of looking into things on their own. While I "generally" have no issue with backing up what I say, as I have clearly done in multiple threads, I will not constantly roll-over and spoon feed you things when a good reminder of "Google is your friend" is a better response

 

However, why don't you provide me with evidence that these lifelong "issues" are best served with TWs.

 

Also, it is never on the person to prove the non-existence of something. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist or that drinking unicorn blood will NOT keep me alive.

 

Lastly, ignore me, foe me, same difference. Don't demand a response from me while claiming you are going to ignore me. That, my dear, is very self-centered.

 

 

 

 

LOL - actually, you really HAVE NOT backed up what you are saying and it is very clear from your posts that you either have limited knowledge on the topic of PTSD treatment success OR you think that people in the process of recovering and people who never recover are somehow not worthy.

 

Two seconds on google - 

 

 

• Approximately 60% will completely recover with no further symptoms.
• The next 35% have a varying level of recovery from full recovery that takes years, to partial recovery, yet allowing them to participate in life via employment, education, relationships and so forth.
• The remaining 5%, approximately, will have what is deemed life-time PTSD. This means they will never successfully hold full-time employment or be able to participate in life socially for extended periods, being days, maybe a week or two, before they get crushed by symptoms and need to adopt their retreat and management principles.

 

1) I would say, being an army spouse and being in a military community, I have a pretty good idea of what PTSD is. From soldiers to gold-star spouse friends, my knowledge of PTSD is not limited because I have a reason to care. Never mind dealing with PTSD myself. Not-worthy? Um, no. I have implied no such thing. Good try.

 

2) I asked for evidence that TWs help. Not statistics that tell me absolutely nothing about treatment.

 

 

 

[Whoosh]

I A person with PTSD does have other tools they can use.  Be it support groups, mental health providers, etc.  All of which they can provide for themselves (starting a group, paying for a mental health provider, etc) or have others provide for them (go to a established support group, use health care/insurance for mental health providers, etc) 

 

 

 

 

Please provide ANY support or evidence for the this bizarre claim that "other tools" available to people with PTSD will somehow eliminate the benefits of having trigger warnings as a tool.  Not just for some people, but for ALL people with PTSD - even the most severe.  As people have been saying, some issues that result in people appreciating trigger warnings ARE treatable (over TIME - should they isolate until "fixed"?) while others are NOT and may well be with the person for life. 

ETA - never said I was "foeing" you.  Pretty sure I said something like "ignoring for now".

 

 

 

No, because Google can do that for you and I have no desire to argue every.single.statement with you. I have backed up plenty of what I have had to say and I think (or rather hope) people are capable of looking into things on their own. While I "generally" have no issue with backing up what I say, as I have clearly done in multiple threads, I will not constantly roll-over and spoon feed you things when a good reminder of "Google is your friend" is a better response

 

However, why don't you provide me with evidence that these lifelong "issues" are best served with TWs.

 

Also, it is never on the person to prove the non-existence of something. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist or that drinking unicorn blood will NOT keep me alive.

 

Lastly, ignore me, foe me, same difference. Don't demand a response from me while claiming you are going to ignore me. That, my dear, is very self-centered.

 

 

 

 

LOL - actually, you really HAVE NOT backed up what you are saying and it is very clear from your posts that you either have limited knowledge on the topic of PTSD treatment success OR you think that people in the process of recovering and people who never recover are somehow not worthy.

 

Two seconds on google - 

 

 

• Approximately 60% will completely recover with no further symptoms.
• The next 35% have a varying level of recovery from full recovery that takes years, to partial recovery, yet allowing them to participate in life via employment, education, relationships and so forth.
• The remaining 5%, approximately, will have what is deemed life-time PTSD. This means they will never successfully hold full-time employment or be able to participate in life socially for extended periods, being days, maybe a week or two, before they get crushed by symptoms and need to adopt their retreat and management principles.

 

1) I would say, being an army spouse and being in a military community, I have a pretty good idea of what PTSD is. From soldiers to gold-star spouse friends, my knowledge of PTSD is not limited because I have a reason to care. Never mind dealing with PTSD myself. Not-worthy? Um, no. I have implied no such thing. Good try.

 

2) I asked for evidence that TWs help. Not statistics that tell me absolutely nothing about treatment.

 

 

 

1)  You can claim you have a pretty good idea of "what PTSD is", but you actually do not seem to understand how various treatment options work, how long they might take, or what the success rates are.  

 

2)  I was not trying to answer any question about whether TWs help - you could google that if you are curious I guess.  I was trying to provide information that would help you understand the ACTUAL realities and success rates of "other tools".  Good try, though.

[PregnantPornStar]

I A person with PTSD does have other tools they can use.  Be it support groups, mental health providers, etc.  All of which they can provide for themselves (starting a group, paying for a mental health provider, etc) or have others provide for them (go to a established support group, use health care/insurance for mental health providers, etc)  

 

 

 

 

Please provide ANY support or evidence for the this bizarre claim that "other tools" available to people with PTSD will somehow eliminate the benefits of having trigger warnings as a tool.  Not just for some people, but for ALL people with PTSD - even the most severe.  As people have been saying, some issues that result in people appreciating trigger warnings ARE treatable (over TIME - should they isolate until "fixed"?) while others are NOT and may well be with the person for life. ETA - never said I was "foeing" you.  Pretty sure I said something like "ignoring for now".

 

 

 

 No, because Google can do that for you and I have no desire to argue every.single.statement with you. I have backed up plenty of what I have had to say and I think (or rather hope) people are capable of looking into things on their own. While I "generally" have no issue with backing up what I say, as I have clearly done in multiple threads, I will not constantly roll-over and spoon feed you things when a good reminder of "Google is your friend" is a better response

 

However, why don't you provide me with evidence that these lifelong "issues" are best served with TWs.

 

Also, it is never on the person to prove the non-existence of something. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist or that drinking unicorn blood will NOT keep me alive.

 

Lastly, ignore me, foe me, same difference. Don't demand a response from me while claiming you are going to ignore me. That, my dear, is very self-centered.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL - actually, you really HAVE NOT backed up what you are saying and it is very clear from your posts that you either have limited knowledge on the topic of PTSD treatment success OR you think that people in the process of recovering and people who never recover are somehow not worthy. 

Two seconds on google - 

 

 

 

• Approximately 60% will completely recover with no further symptoms.
• The next 35% have a varying level of recovery from full recovery that takes years, to partial recovery, yet allowing them to participate in life via employment, education, relationships and so forth.
• The remaining 5%, approximately, will have what is deemed life-time PTSD. This means they will never successfully hold full-time employment or be able to participate in life socially for extended periods, being days, maybe a week or two, before they get crushed by symptoms and need to adopt their retreat and management principles.

 

1) I would say, being an army spouse and being in a military community, I have a pretty good idea of what PTSD is. From soldiers to gold-star spouse friends, my knowledge of PTSD is not limited because I have a reason to care. Never mind dealing with PTSD myself. Not-worthy? Um, no. I have implied no such thing. Good try.

 

2) I asked for evidence that TWs help. Not statistics that tell me absolutely nothing about treatment.

 

 

 

 

1)  You can claim you have a pretty good idea of "what PTSD is", but you actually do not seem to understand how various treatment options work, how long they might take, or what the success rates are.  

 

2)  I was not trying to answer any question about whether TWs help - you could google that if you are curious I guess.  I was trying to provide information that would help you understand the ACTUAL realities and success rates of "other tools".  Good try, though.

 

 

Really, I don't need you to provide evidence. I was being snarky. I am not foolish enough to not do a little investigating myself. There is no evidence, and quite possibly, on the contrary.

 

Anyway, stop demanding I "back up" every sentence with detailed explanation. Use your reasoning skills, agree or disagree and move on.

 

[Whoosh]

I A person with PTSD does have other tools they can use.  Be it support groups, mental health providers, etc.  All of which they can provide for themselves (starting a group, paying for a mental health provider, etc) or have others provide for them (go to a established support group, use health care/insurance for mental health providers, etc)  

 

 

 

 

Please provide ANY support or evidence for the this bizarre claim that "other tools" available to people with PTSD will somehow eliminate the benefits of having trigger warnings as a tool.  Not just for some people, but for ALL people with PTSD - even the most severe.  As people have been saying, some issues that result in people appreciating trigger warnings ARE treatable (over TIME - should they isolate until "fixed"?) while others are NOT and may well be with the person for life. ETA - never said I was "foeing" you.  Pretty sure I said something like "ignoring for now".

 

 

 

 No, because Google can do that for you and I have no desire to argue every.single.statement with you. I have backed up plenty of what I have had to say and I think (or rather hope) people are capable of looking into things on their own. While I "generally" have no issue with backing up what I say, as I have clearly done in multiple threads, I will not constantly roll-over and spoon feed you things when a good reminder of "Google is your friend" is a better response

 

However, why don't you provide me with evidence that these lifelong "issues" are best served with TWs.

 

Also, it is never on the person to prove the non-existence of something. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist or that drinking unicorn blood will NOT keep me alive.

 

Lastly, ignore me, foe me, same difference. Don't demand a response from me while claiming you are going to ignore me. That, my dear, is very self-centered.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL - actually, you really HAVE NOT backed up what you are saying and it is very clear from your posts that you either have limited knowledge on the topic of PTSD treatment success OR you think that people in the process of recovering and people who never recover are somehow not worthy. 

Two seconds on google - 

 

 

 

• Approximately 60% will completely recover with no further symptoms.
• The next 35% have a varying level of recovery from full recovery that takes years, to partial recovery, yet allowing them to participate in life via employment, education, relationships and so forth.
• The remaining 5%, approximately, will have what is deemed life-time PTSD. This means they will never successfully hold full-time employment or be able to participate in life socially for extended periods, being days, maybe a week or two, before they get crushed by symptoms and need to adopt their retreat and management principles.

 

1) I would say, being an army spouse and being in a military community, I have a pretty good idea of what PTSD is. From soldiers to gold-star spouse friends, my knowledge of PTSD is not limited because I have a reason to care. Never mind dealing with PTSD myself. Not-worthy? Um, no. I have implied no such thing. Good try.

 

2) I asked for evidence that TWs help. Not statistics that tell me absolutely nothing about treatment.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

1)  You can claim you have a pretty good idea of "what PTSD is", but you actually do not seem to understand how various treatment options work, how long they might take, or what the success rates are.  

 

2)  I was not trying to answer any question about whether TWs help - you could google that if you are curious I guess.  I was trying to provide information that would help you understand the ACTUAL realities and success rates of "other tools".  Good try, though.

 

 

Really, I don't need you to provide evidence. I was being snarky. I am not foolish enough to not do a little investigating myself. There is no evidence, and quite possibly, on the contrary.

 

Anyway, stop demanding I "back up" every sentence with detailed explanation. Use your reasoning skills, agree or disagree and move on.

 

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to change the subject.  

Are you trying to censor me, tell me what to do and how to act?  Really?

[FundieFarmer]

PPS- upthread you said that you thought TWs would in fact give license to a more graphic conversation (page 6 or 7, I'm on Tapa so I can't really tell).

That's quite different than saying TWs would sensor the conversation.

Are you looking at this as both are possible reactions, or changed your mind, or just turned around? I'm interested because I found that idea intriguing.

[PregnantPornStar]

I A person with PTSD does have other tools they can use.  Be it support groups, mental health providers, etc.  All of which they can provide for themselves (starting a group, paying for a mental health provider, etc) or have others provide for them (go to a established support group, use health care/insurance for mental health providers, etc)   

 

 

 

 

Please provide ANY support or evidence for the this bizarre claim that "other tools" available to people with PTSD will somehow eliminate the benefits of having trigger warnings as a tool.  Not just for some people, but for ALL people with PTSD - even the most severe.  As people have been saying, some issues that result in people appreciating trigger warnings ARE treatable (over TIME - should they isolate until "fixed"?) while others are NOT and may well be with the person for life. ETA - never said I was "foeing" you.  Pretty sure I said something like "ignoring for now". 

 

 

 

 No, because Google can do that for you and I have no desire to argue every.single.statement with you. I have backed up plenty of what I have had to say and I think (or rather hope) people are capable of looking into things on their own. While I "generally" have no issue with backing up what I say, as I have clearly done in multiple threads, I will not constantly roll-over and spoon feed you things when a good reminder of "Google is your friend" is a better response 

However, why don't you provide me with evidence that these lifelong "issues" are best served with TWs.

 

Also, it is never on the person to prove the non-existence of something. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist or that drinking unicorn blood will NOT keep me alive.

 

Lastly, ignore me, foe me, same difference. Don't demand a response from me while claiming you are going to ignore me. That, my dear, is very self-centered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL - actually, you really HAVE NOT backed up what you are saying and it is very clear from your posts that you either have limited knowledge on the topic of PTSD treatment success OR you think that people in the process of recovering and people who never recover are somehow not worthy. Two seconds on google - 

 

 

 

 

• Approximately 60% will completely recover with no further symptoms.
• The next 35% have a varying level of recovery from full recovery that takes years, to partial recovery, yet allowing them to participate in life via employment, education, relationships and so forth.
• The remaining 5%, approximately, will have what is deemed life-time PTSD. This means they will never successfully hold full-time employment or be able to participate in life socially for extended periods, being days, maybe a week or two, before they get crushed by symptoms and need to adopt their retreat and management principles.

 1) I would say, being an army spouse and being in a military community, I have a pretty good idea of what PTSD is. From soldiers to gold-star spouse friends, my knowledge of PTSD is not limited because I have a reason to care. Never mind dealing with PTSD myself. Not-worthy? Um, no. I have implied no such thing. Good try.

 

2) I asked for evidence that TWs help. Not statistics that tell me absolutely nothing about treatment.

 

 

 

 

 

1)  You can claim you have a pretty good idea of "what PTSD is", but you actually do not seem to understand how various treatment options work, how long they might take, or what the success rates are.   

2)  I was not trying to answer any question about whether TWs help - you could google that if you are curious I guess.  I was trying to provide information that would help you understand the ACTUAL realities and success rates of "other tools".  Good try, though.

 

 

 

Really, I don't need you to provide evidence. I was being snarky. I am not foolish enough to not do a little investigating myself. There is no evidence, and quite possibly, on the contrary.

 

Anyway, stop demanding I "back up" every sentence with detailed explanation. Use your reasoning skills, agree or disagree and move on.

 

 

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to change the subject.  

Are you trying to censor me, tell me what to do and how to act?  Really?

 

 

Fair enough. You can demand, but I am no longer going to give into your demands. If you feel demanding things of me is legitimate part of your speech, one that you feel is contributing to the conversation, more power to you. I still disagree and really refuse to engage with you any longer. I have made it clear what I feel about your contributions to discussions I have had with you in a previous post. So, demand all you want.

[Whoosh]

I A person with PTSD does have other tools they can use.  Be it support groups, mental health providers, etc.  All of which they can provide for themselves (starting a group, paying for a mental health provider, etc) or have others provide for them (go to a established support group, use health care/insurance for mental health providers, etc)   

 

 

 

 

Please provide ANY support or evidence for the this bizarre claim that "other tools" available to people with PTSD will somehow eliminate the benefits of having trigger warnings as a tool.  Not just for some people, but for ALL people with PTSD - even the most severe.  As people have been saying, some issues that result in people appreciating trigger warnings ARE treatable (over TIME - should they isolate until "fixed"?) while others are NOT and may well be with the person for life. ETA - never said I was "foeing" you.  Pretty sure I said something like "ignoring for now". 

 

 

 

 No, because Google can do that for you and I have no desire to argue every.single.statement with you. I have backed up plenty of what I have had to say and I think (or rather hope) people are capable of looking into things on their own. While I "generally" have no issue with backing up what I say, as I have clearly done in multiple threads, I will not constantly roll-over and spoon feed you things when a good reminder of "Google is your friend" is a better response 

However, why don't you provide me with evidence that these lifelong "issues" are best served with TWs.

 

Also, it is never on the person to prove the non-existence of something. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist or that drinking unicorn blood will NOT keep me alive.

 

Lastly, ignore me, foe me, same difference. Don't demand a response from me while claiming you are going to ignore me. That, my dear, is very self-centered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL - actually, you really HAVE NOT backed up what you are saying and it is very clear from your posts that you either have limited knowledge on the topic of PTSD treatment success OR you think that people in the process of recovering and people who never recover are somehow not worthy. Two seconds on google - 

 

 

 

 

• Approximately 60% will completely recover with no further symptoms.
• The next 35% have a varying level of recovery from full recovery that takes years, to partial recovery, yet allowing them to participate in life via employment, education, relationships and so forth.
• The remaining 5%, approximately, will have what is deemed life-time PTSD. This means they will never successfully hold full-time employment or be able to participate in life socially for extended periods, being days, maybe a week or two, before they get crushed by symptoms and need to adopt their retreat and management principles.

 1) I would say, being an army spouse and being in a military community, I have a pretty good idea of what PTSD is. From soldiers to gold-star spouse friends, my knowledge of PTSD is not limited because I have a reason to care. Never mind dealing with PTSD myself. Not-worthy? Um, no. I have implied no such thing. Good try.

 

2) I asked for evidence that TWs help. Not statistics that tell me absolutely nothing about treatment.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

1)  You can claim you have a pretty good idea of "what PTSD is", but you actually do not seem to understand how various treatment options work, how long they might take, or what the success rates are.   

2)  I was not trying to answer any question about whether TWs help - you could google that if you are curious I guess.  I was trying to provide information that would help you understand the ACTUAL realities and success rates of "other tools".  Good try, though.

 

 

 

Really, I don't need you to provide evidence. I was being snarky. I am not foolish enough to not do a little investigating myself. There is no evidence, and quite possibly, on the contrary.

 

Anyway, stop demanding I "back up" every sentence with detailed explanation. Use your reasoning skills, agree or disagree and move on.

 

 

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to change the subject.  

Are you trying to censor me, tell me what to do and how to act?  Really?

 

 

Fair enough. You can demand, but I am no longer going to give into your demands. If you feel demanding things of me is legitimate part of your speech, one that you feel is contributing to the conversation, more power to you. I still disagree and really refuse to engage with you any longer. I have made it clear what I feel about your contributions to discussions I have had with you in a previous post. So, demand all you want.

LOL I didn't demand anything.  I simply asked if you had any support to back your claims.  Of course, you are under no obligation to respond to such inquiries or to engage with anyone.  

Here's the thing about free speech that you don't seem to get.  It is a two way street.  You can continue to present the argument that you should be able to say whatever you want and people should avoid responding to your statements in order to avoid hurting your feelings or making you uncomfortable in some way, but I don't think that squares well with your previous arguments.

No need to engage.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

Mmm...trigger warnings are helpful, I have complex PTSD, major depression, general anxiety disorder, and dissociative fugue state, and now I have a significant lesion on my left temporal lobe, broca's area. Speech is affected. Writing, nouns disappear Sometimes. When I am in a classroom or a store, anywhere public, I can be triggered. I never make it anyone's fault, it is simply my illness/injury. I dont expect ramps. If there was a ramp that would assist my brain injury that would assist me in making it to the top of the public experience that would be great, but a tw, ss, and my seizure trained service dog I will soon receive and train with will have to be my ramp...I don't expect others who are not triggered to limit their conversation, I just want to be able to get my self to a safe space if I can, if not today least get a warning to use as many personal tools as I can.

[PregnantPornStar]

PPS- upthread you said that you thought TWs would in fact give license to a more graphic conversation (page 6 or 7, I'm on Tapa so I can't really tell).

 

That's quite different than saying TWs would sensor the conversation.

 

Are you looking at this as both are possible reactions, or changed your mind, or just turned around? I'm interested because I found that idea intriguing.

I think both could be possibilities. That is another facet, are they really useful? Or more harmful? There is even argument that the TW itself "triggers" some people. 

I think it would be unfair to assume all individuals will utilize TWs in the same way or that they will impact individuals in the same regard. That is part of what makes this so complicated.

Is it putting a bandaid on an underlying problem? Is it a way to AVOID issues (and here, I am not referring to the individual who may be "triggered" but the general population. Rather than be sensitive to issues others face, are people feeling that a TW is helpful rather than actually learning what to do to stop, say, child abuse, from happening? I am not suggesting we cannot be both sensitive and gice families resources to make sure child abuse doesn't happen in the first place, but is it possible, that we are actually minimizing the abuse itself? I don't have answers to all of thes questions.  I doubt any of us have a hard answer, but I do know that we absolutely need to continue to progress as a society and try as hard as possible to eliminate anything that can harm individuals. Isn't that our job as members of a society? 

I think that even means that having discussions that may be "triggering" should be done in a thoughtful manner (not required, but hopefully we are raising humans and growing as humans in a way that what we WANT to say is done so in a thoughtful way. For example, when talking about child abuse, it is probably good to remember that while speaking, you should be kind while talking about it because the person sitting next to you may have had a very traumatizing childhood. That doesn't mean you announce a TW, but simply speak in a manner that a decent human being would. 

 

[CyborgKin]

The few times that I've prefaced a piece of writing with a trigger warning, I've put the main content of the warning in a spoiler box, which readers can choose to open, or not open.  This allows people who are on the lookout for trigger warnings to be aware that there is a trigger warning and choose to read the warning at their own pace.  Also, it allows people who are not concerned with triggering to skip over it, and avoid plot spoilers for the story.  The reason I felt it was a good idea to place a warning is that I was posting the story in a forum thread containing many story snippets with a variety of tones, so people would likely not necessarily be expecting a certain traumatic event in mine.  While many people wouldn't be bothered by this surprise, it could cause problems for some, so I felt it was courteous to make a warning available to any who wanted it. I don't think this kind of warning limits anyone's free speech or censors anything.

[Terrie]

PPS,

You still haven't explained how a TW censors speech. Instead, you moved to "There's no proof they help." Given that you don't seem to understand how they are used, but instead speculate on how they "might" be used, I'm not sure how we're supposed to "prove" they help. 

[PregnantPornStar]

PPS,

You still haven't explained how a TW censors speech. Instead, you moved to "There's no proof they help." Given that you don't seem to understand how they are used, but instead speculate on how they "might" be used, I'm not sure how we're supposed to "prove" they help. 

Really? You can't deduct that at all from what I said?

[Terrie]

PPS,

You still haven't explained how a TW censors speech. Instead, you moved to "There's no proof they help." Given that you don't seem to understand how they are used, but instead speculate on how they "might" be used, I'm not sure how we're supposed to "prove" they help. 

 

 

Really? You can't deduct that at all from what I said?

 

 

What I can deduce from what you've said that you think accommodations shouldn't inconvenience the "normal" people, making you the exact sort of ableist person I've spoken out against in this thread. And let me be clear, this isn't "I'm saying your actions, comments, etc, are ableist, not you as a person." I'm saying you, the person, are ableist.

[PregnantPornStar]

PPS,You still haven't explained how a TW censors speech. Instead, you moved to "There's no proof they help." Given that you don't seem to understand how they are used, but instead speculate on how they "might" be used, I'm not sure how we're supposed to "prove" they help. 

 

 

Really? You can't deduct that at all from what I said?

 

 

What I can deduce from what you've said that you think accommodations shouldn't inconvenience the "normal" people, making you the exact sort of ableist person I've spoken out against in this thread. And let me be clear, this isn't "I'm saying your actions, comments, etc, are ableist, not you as a person." I'm saying you, the person, are ableist.

Well, if that is all you have been able to deduce from everything I have said and every article I posted...

I can deduce that you either have very poor reasoning skills or are an incredibly narcissistic sophist. Or both.

[Terrie]

Oh, sorry, was I supposed to be cowed by your earlier statement and feel stupid that I couldn't magically extract reason from your nonsense? I mean, you followed up a post I made on the issues of viewing accommodations by how they inconvenience the abled-bodied with talking about how ramps are okay because they don't inconvenience the able-bodied, but TWs aren't because they do. You're either the most clueless human being ever, or a troll who has discovered subtlety. 

[FundieFarmer]

 

I think both could be possibilities. That is another facet, are they really useful? Or more harmful? There is even argument that the TW itself "triggers" some people. 

I don't really think this is much of a question anymore. I know we are only a small sample of the population, but a lot of people here have said they are useful in many different ways. I think that's the answer to that question.

I think it would be unfair to assume all individuals will utilize TWs in the same way or that they will impact individuals in the same regard. That is part of what makes this so complicated.

Well...we've said here before that based on different conditions, TWs are used in different ways, and by nature their impact is different based on condition. Just because they are used differently doesn't mean they should be foregone entirely. 

Is it putting a bandaid on an underlying problem? Is it a way to AVOID issues (and here, I am not referring to the individual who may be "triggered" but the general population.

Rather than be sensitive to issues others face, are people feeling that a TW is helpful rather than actually learning what to do to stop, say, child abuse, from happening? I am not suggesting we cannot be both sensitive and gice families resources to make sure child abuse doesn't happen in the first place, but is it possible, that we are actually minimizing the abuse itself? I don't have answers to all of thes questions.  I doubt any of us have a hard answer, but I do know that we absolutely need to continue to progress as a society and try as hard as possible to eliminate anything that can harm individuals. Isn't that our job as members of a society? 

Why would the general population avoid a topic just because it has a TW, if they themselves weren't triggered? Placing a trigger warning isn't the same thing about educating why they're needed. Those are apples and oranges. 

I would argue that in fact, TWs emphasize the consequences and long-lasting ramifications of abuse- not minimize it. If an experience is so powerful that a warning is needed that you may be reminded of it, I think that speaks to the magnanimity of the experience itself.

Wouldn't trying to speak in such a way that isn't triggering be a form of censoring in itself? Sort of exactly what you were speaking out against about the TWs themselves? I think that TWs create an environment where speakers/writers can address the hard truths- not dance around them in an effort not to be triggering.

If, as a society, our job is to try as hard as possible to eliminate anything that can harm individuals, I would think we would embrace trigger warnings. 

I'm not really sure what the point you are trying to make would be. 

[Whoosh]

Perhaps we are all supposed to glean the actual point from the long "I am a mess" post.  What does this post actually try to convey?  Here is what I am getting...

1.  Speech is GOOD and free speech is GOOD  

• - I think we all agree on this.  I don't think I have seen anyone disagree with this.

2.  Physical assault is BAD and you shouldn't physically assault a person if you disagree with what they say

• -  I think we all agree on this.  I don't think I have seen anyone disagree with this.

3.   Trigger warnings are not required.

•  I think we all agree on this.  I don't think I have seen anyone disagree with this.

4.  ALL have the right to free speech and a person should not be shocked or offended when opposing views are expressed in response.

•  I think we all agree on this.  I don't think I have seen anyone disagree with this.

Of course, throughout there seems to be a message that limiting speech in any way through disagreement or disapproval is BAD - except when PPS or someone she agrees with does it.  I can't imagine that even PPS really believes this, so either I am reading that wrong or perhaps it was the medications/etc. speaking.

 

Anyway, it seems we are largely in agreement that physically assaulting people is BAD (unless perhaps it is done in self defense), trigger warnings are NOT required, and people should NOT be shocked or offended when others disagree with or critique what has been said.

 

I am going to preface all of this by saying I have not been ignoring you. I was helping with homework, reading Harry Potter, and trying to inhale as much soup and local honey, along with wine and allergy meds. I have never in my life experienced allergies as badly as I have in Kentucky. I have lived quite a few places and traveled a lot. This, is ridiculous. I am a mess. Wine, allergies and antihistamines probably are not the best combo for me to have any form of intelligent discussion, but here goes...but truly, forgive me for rambling. As I am obviously doing

 

Firstly, I am not disagreeing that a trigger warning doesn't require anyone to leave a discussion or that it "necessarily" means a conversation cannot happen. However, by saying "You are free to say whatever you want, BUT..." You are limiting speech by saying it can only be done in a certain way (such as by prefacing with a trigger warning).

 

Many commenters are taking a very narrow view on what TWs entail. My general opinion is that while you may not need to preface a discussion with a TW and don't need to censor how graphic you are with your speech, it is generally the "polite" thing to speak in an intelligent manner, hence, likely being at least somewhat sensitive. I don't think anyone should be required to do this. Requiring to do something in a certain way means there are limits. I don't know how more simply I can put that.

 

An example would be the professor from UC Santa Barbara who felt "triggered" by anti-abortion signs, ended up vandalizing them and assaulting protestors. She was pregnant at the time and claimed this is why it was upsetting to her. (Short version of the story)

 

While I absolutely detest anti-abortion advocates protesting, I would never, ever...in a million years, limit them from speech. Does that mean I don't think they are assholes? Nope. I will even say it is insensitive and manipulative. Still, freedom of speech and expression should not be limited. Speech is GOOD. It means we can discuss our views that we are passionate about without physically harming anyone.

 

https://reason.com/archives/2014/05/27/trigger-warnings-on-campus-arent-just-fu/1

 

Additionally, there is nothing wrong wit giving a heads up if you WANT, but requiring a TW is not okay, because again, you are limiting speech. Also, expecting people to preface with a trigger warning WILL, in some cases, deter individuals from contributing to discussions all together, for fear of offending. Nobody should ever fear speaking. In fact, people should also learn to accept criticism of their speech. If you are running around campus with pictures of aborted fetuses, don't be shocked or offended when opposing views are thrown out at you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Palimpsest]

@‌Terrie, I don't think PPS has discovered subtlety.  Far from it.  I think she is about as subtle as the average brick. 

The only talent PPS has discovered is for rambling on interminably, boringly, and incoherently when she hasn't got much to say.  She seems to be trying to be annoying and I agree that she is being ableist. 

Whatever her intent, she is looking increasingly foolish.  

@‌PPS, do you have anything interesting to say about the flaws in Fundamentalism?  Otherwise I really wonder why you are here on Free Jinger - unless it is to try to create drama.  Good luck with that.  I think most of us are just bored by you.

 

 

[Terrie]

Palimpsest,

Well, when you're being compared to the subtlety of 14 year olds, the bar is pretty low.

[Curious]

I A person with PTSD does have other tools they can use.  Be it support groups, mental health providers, etc.  All of which they can provide for themselves (starting a group, paying for a mental health provider, etc) or have others provide for them (go to a established support group, use health care/insurance for mental health providers, etc)  

 

 

 

 

Please provide ANY support or evidence for the this bizarre claim that "other tools" available to people with PTSD will somehow eliminate the benefits of having trigger warnings as a tool.  Not just for some people, but for ALL people with PTSD - even the most severe.  As people have been saying, some issues that result in people appreciating trigger warnings ARE treatable (over TIME - should they isolate until "fixed"?) while others are NOT and may well be with the person for life. ETA - never said I was "foeing" you.  Pretty sure I said something like "ignoring for now".

 

 

 

 No, because Google can do that for you and I have no desire to argue every.single.statement with you. I have backed up plenty of what I have had to say and I think (or rather hope) people are capable of looking into things on their own. While I "generally" have no issue with backing up what I say, as I have clearly done in multiple threads, I will not constantly roll-over and spoon feed you things when a good reminder of "Google is your friend" is a better response

 

However, why don't you provide me with evidence that these lifelong "issues" are best served with TWs.

 

Also, it is never on the person to prove the non-existence of something. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist or that drinking unicorn blood will NOT keep me alive.

 

Lastly, ignore me, foe me, same difference. Don't demand a response from me while claiming you are going to ignore me. That, my dear, is very self-centered.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL - actually, you really HAVE NOT backed up what you are saying and it is very clear from your posts that you either have limited knowledge on the topic of PTSD treatment success OR you think that people in the process of recovering and people who never recover are somehow not worthy. 

Two seconds on google - 

 

 

 

• Approximately 60% will completely recover with no further symptoms.
• The next 35% have a varying level of recovery from full recovery that takes years, to partial recovery, yet allowing them to participate in life via employment, education, relationships and so forth.
• The remaining 5%, approximately, will have what is deemed life-time PTSD. This means they will never successfully hold full-time employment or be able to participate in life socially for extended periods, being days, maybe a week or two, before they get crushed by symptoms and need to adopt their retreat and management principles.

 

1) I would say, being an army spouse and being in a military community, I have a pretty good idea of what PTSD is. From soldiers to gold-star spouse friends, my knowledge of PTSD is not limited because I have a reason to care. Never mind dealing with PTSD myself. Not-worthy? Um, no. I have implied no such thing. Good try.

 

2) I asked for evidence that TWs help. Not statistics that tell me absolutely nothing about treatment.

 

 

 

 

1)  You can claim you have a pretty good idea of "what PTSD is", but you actually do not seem to understand how various treatment options work, how long they might take, or what the success rates are.  

 

2)  I was not trying to answer any question about whether TWs help - you could google that if you are curious I guess.  I was trying to provide information that would help you understand the ACTUAL realities and success rates of "other tools".  Good try, though.

 

 

Really, I don't need you to provide evidence. I was being snarky. I am not foolish enough to not do a little investigating myself. There is no evidence, and quite possibly, on the contrary.

 

Anyway, stop demanding I "back up" every sentence with detailed explanation. Use your reasoning skills, agree or disagree and move on.

 

 Backing up your statements is pretty much routine on FJ.   From our About Us page.

: If your viewpoint tends to the “traditional,” you don’t need to leave – in fact, you are welcome, because otherwise we’re just a bunch of hens agreeing with each other – but you do need a nice thick hide and the intellectual ability to defend your thinking. “Because Mama and Jesus told me so” is not good enough.

You aren't saying "because mama or jesus told me so," but you are getting pretty close.  Just because you think something is a certain way doesn't mean it's that way in reality.  That is why we back up what we are saying with actual outside proof.   If you expect people to take you seriously here, telling them "google is your friend" is not going to help your case.   If you make statements here it's YOUR responsibility to provide proof of your statements.  It's not on US to do research for you.

If you are just here to see how tedious you can be, then you've probably accomplished that goal and can move on.

[GodsKnickers]

I can deduce that you either have very poor reasoning skills or are an incredibly narcissistic sophist. Or both.

Oh, sorry, was I supposed to be cowed by your earlier statement

 

I think you're supposed to be cowed by 'narcissistic' and 'sophist.' Or perhaps the fact that someone discovered a dictionary of 'hard words.'

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Maybe we should add trigger warnings to that infamous list, with peanut butter,  vaccines,  breastfeeding etc...

[formergothardite]

This thread is confusing as fuck. I don't get what the big deal about being a nice human and give a TW when you know you are going to present information that some people might find very upsetting. My BIL was in the military for years and has PTSD. When he moved to a rural area where people would go outside a start shooting assault rifles for fun it was upsetting for him.. So my sister went and asked the neighbors if they would let them know when they were going to shoot guns so that he could prepare himself instead of suddenly being surrounded by the sound of rapid gunfire or leave if he felt like it was going to be too upsetting that day. They neighbors did because they aren't assholes. That is what a TW is, just letting people know that what is going to come might be upsetting and so they can either prepare or, if they don't feel like they are up to handling it, just not read or listen to the info. What the fuck is so hard about this?! You aren't required to give a trigger warning, but it can make you a bit of an selfish asshole if you present information that you know upsets people and don't give one.