Speaking of being PC...

[MatthewDuggar]

Group-attacking another member reeks of shit-stirring as well. I guess I'm just as "obtuse" because I was enjoying the discussion until is got derailed by the FJ mafia. :lol:

[Curious]

O(h please shut up!!

Excuse me? Who the fuck do you think you are? If you don't like what I have to say, you are free to foe me. Everyone can express their opinion here whether you like that opinion or not.

I don't know what is going on with you lately, but you have been even more obnoxious than usual. Your English seems to be slipping as well, which I find a bit odd given how long you have been here. I say this with sincerity, that perhaps you need to visit your dr.

[Beb]

Group-attacking another member reeks of shit-stirring as well. I guess I'm just as "obtuse" because I was enjoying the discussion until is got derailed by the FJ mafia. :lol:

Hmmmm. I wonder what/who is the common denominator now in these contentious dissenting opinions?

[Curious]

You are realizing that not everyone buys into you bullshit as well? Right?

Obviously people don't all have the same opinion as me. Clearly, or else there wouldn't be anything to discuss other than the majority opinion and backing that up.

There are, however, some that do agree with the dissenting opinion. Therefor, I see no need to "reevaluate", but do realize you are continuously deflecting from the topic by bemoaning and accusing me of "stirring shit"

Reading comprehension is fun! I never said you were shit-stirring. I said If *I* was being accused of it that I would take time to reevaluate why that was happening.

[Curious]

Group-attacking another member reeks of shit-stirring as well. I guess I'm just as "obtuse" because I was enjoying the discussion until is got derailed by the FJ mafia. :lol:

FFS. Disagreeing is NOT attacking. Everyone has been relatively polite in expressing their opinions. A number of people disagreeing is also not attacking.

Do you think that PPS, Beb and Lat are attacking me? I'm guessing you don't based on your post.

I guess they are part of the FJ Mafia as well since they are ganging up on me, right?

[Beb]

Excuse me? Who the fuck do you think you are? If you don't like what I have to say, you are free to foe me. Everyone can express their opinion here whether you like that opinion or not.

I don't know what is going on with you lately, but you have been even more obnoxious than usual. Your English seems to be slipping as well, which I find a bit odd given how long you have been here. I say this with sincerity, that perhaps you need to visit your dr.

Are you applying ageism, or is this mentalism in the guise of faux concern?

[Beb]

FFS. Disagreeing is NOT attacking. Everyone has been relatively polite in expressing their opinions. A number of people disagreeing is also not attacking.

Do you think that PPS, Beb and Lat are attacking me? I'm guessing you don't based on your post.

I guess they are part of the FJ Mafia as well since they are ganging up on me, right?

You know......common denominator and all that.

[latraviata]

Excuse me? Who the fuck do you think you are? If you don't like what I have to say, you are free to foe me. Everyone can express their opinion here whether you like that opinion or not.

I don't know what is going on with you lately, but you have been even more obnoxious than usual. Your English seems to be slipping as well, which I find a bit odd given how long you have been here. I say this with sincerity, that perhaps you need to visit your dr.

My English is slipping and I need to visit my dr? Who the hell are you? I'll be happy to continue the conversation in Dutch, French or German, take your pick.

Teaching someone a lesson about how to reevaluate their opinion just because you think you are always right (common denominator) and do the right thing?

But I know, you surpass me in everything, even in stupidity and sanctimony!

[sawasdee]

Speaking of an FJ mafia, is this the second or the third thread that Beb, la traviata and PregnantPornStar seem to be posting in lockstep?

[Terrie]

Group-attacking another member reeks of shit-stirring as well. I guess I'm just as "obtuse" because I was enjoying the discussion until is got derailed by the FJ mafia. :lol:

FJ mafia... But the "PC" crowd is the one prone to over reacting and hyperbole. Sure it is. :roll:

[PregnantPornStar]

Reading comprehension is fun! I never said you were shit-stirring. I said If *I* was being accused of it that I would take time to reevaluate why that was happening.

Sigh. Again. Deflecting and not grasping the point.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I wouldn't define anyone's behaviour in this thread as mafioso. I am sorry if someone feels threatened but I have some difficulties understanding how.

[MatthewDuggar]

I wouldn't define anyone's behaviour in this thread as mafioso. I am sorry if someone feels threatened but I have some difficulties understanding how.

Stop being so obtuse!

[latraviata]

Stop being so obtuse!

Obviously she needed a trigger warning.... ;)

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Obviously she needed a trigger warning.... ;)

Obviously not.

I live in the north of Italy, in no way I was ever involved with it. Also, even if I were I would never ask anyone to not to use that term. However I think that voicing disagreement has nothing in common with mafia's tipical behaviour.

[latraviata]

Obviously not.

I live in the north of Italy, in no way I was ever involved with it. Also, even if I were I would never ask anyone to not to use that term. However I think that voicing disagreement has nothing in common with mafia's tipical behaviour.

We did not know that but thanks for the detailed explanation!!!

Sigh........

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Sorry if I answered seriously to your joke, but given the serious tone of part of this thread where people shared very personal and emotional facts, I felt the need to explain that my objection to the use of the word mafia is not an emotional one...since it seems I am one of that obtuse people ready to scream in defence of their feelings or of pc or of nothing at all :roll:

BTW I try to sum up: the op starts the thread giving a title about pc but wanting to discuss trigger warnings and safe spaces after the Zsu thread. People start saying that tw, ss and pc are different things. OP more or less agrees, she says her brain runs quickly with analogies that's the reason for the title. People say they find tw useful but no need to exaggerate, when people start to issue tw for anything then tw become pointless. Others say tw are always useless pc crap. Add some discussion with disagreements about the Zsu thread. Did I understand well? Missed anything?

Just to be clear I think tw, when used with sense (parsimoniously) can be useful, when used for nothing (too much) can become pc driven crap, detrimental to those who would really need help to cope with difficult topics.

What I don't understand is how we arrived to the current moment throwing around insults (obtuse etc) and accusations (fj mafia). Can't we just say that we agree to disagree?

[VelociRapture]

I've been following along silently for a bit. I had no intention on getting involved further in this as I think I stated my personal views well enough earlier on - however, to be quite blunt, I'm disappointed in the turn this thread and other threads have taken recently.

PPS, Beb, LaTraviata, and anyone who may be silently watching: You are all more than welcome to share your opinions and thoughts here just like everyone else; if you're not breaking any explicit rules I don't see an issue with you guys stating your opinions. No one is going to try and censor you for stating unpopular (but allowed) opinions - and by that, I mean no one is going to delete your posts or comments.

But you also have to realize that getting called out is not a type of punishment for sharing unpopular opinions. Just because you have the right to post something doesn't mean you are exempt from criticism or debate. Getting called out does not make you a martyr for your cause. You, of course, have every right to defend yourself and your words - but so do other people.

To the posters on the other side of this issue: Not everyone who posts unpopular opinions is looking to stir shit up. Some people do and they're assholes, but that is not always the case. I'm not going to speculate on why PPS started the topic because I really don't know and I really don't care. I will agree that maybe she hasn't been as clear about what she means as she could have been but, again, that doesn't make her a bad person or a shit stirrer.

Having an unpopular opinion doesn't make them bad people necessarily - it just means they have a different outlook than you do. Should they maybe take a step back and reexamine how they're wording things or why they keep getting called out? Yeah, maybe they should. But maybe people on both sides need to start examining why the people they're arguing with are reacting the way they are and what you (general you) personally are doing to contribute to the general negative tone in this thread and possibly in other threads.

To All: There are ways to disagree politely and civilly. There are ways to debate with dignity. Having an actual discussions with people of opposing views is healthy and educational at times. Pointing fingers and calling one another names isn't going to help foster an environment where people want to share their opinions and views though.

[latraviata]

I've been following along silently for a bit. I had no intention on getting involved further in this as I think I stated my personal views well enough earlier on - however, to be quite blunt, I'm disappointed in the turn this thread and other threads have taken recently.

PPS, Beb, LaTraviata, and anyone who may be silently watching: You are all more than welcome to share your opinions and thoughts here just like everyone else; if you're not breaking any explicit rules I don't see an issue with you guys stating your opinions. No one is going to try and censor you for stating unpopular (but allowed) opinions - and by that, I mean no one is going to delete your posts or comments.

But you also have to realize that getting called out is not a type of punishment for sharing unpopular opinions. Just because you have the right to post something doesn't mean you are exempt from criticism or debate. Getting called out does not make you a martyr for your cause. You, of course, have every right to defend yourself and your words - but so do other people.

To the posters on the other side of this issue: Not everyone who posts unpopular opinions is looking to stir shit up. Some people do and they're assholes, but that is not always the case. I'm not going to speculate on why PPS started the topic because I really don't know and I really don't care. I will agree that maybe she hasn't been as clear about what she means as she could have been but, again, that doesn't make her a bad person or a shit stirrer.

Having an unpopular opinion doesn't make them bad people necessarily - it just means they have a different outlook than you do. Should they maybe take a step back and reexamine how they're wording things or why they keep getting called out? Yeah, maybe they should. But maybe people on both sides need to start examining why the people they're arguing with are reacting the way they are and what you (general you) personally are doing to contribute to the general negative tone in this thread and possibly in other threads.

To All: There are ways to disagree politely and civilly. There are ways to debate with dignity. Having an actual discussions with people of opposing views is healthy and educational at times. Pointing fingers and calling one another names isn't going to help foster an environment where people want to share their opinions and views though.

I hardly participated in the discussion other than posting a rather good article. I started to respond when I read the flat out insults addressed to PPS, Beb and MD, I was even sent to the Dr.

The advice/instruction to reevaluate your opinions because of a common denominator, is condescending and utterly arrogant.

A permanent source of irritation is the contribution of personal discomfort/drama of any kind, depression, obesity and the like. It muddles the discussion, simply because the world doesn't revolve around some of the people here.

Having said that, thanks to La Papette and you, I know you mean well and I appreciate your attempt to lead the discussion in the right/adult direction, on the other hand personally, I like a spirited discussion. Thanks anyway and La Papette of course.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I think that again things have gone off the rails because the main point of the conversation has been lost by some in favor of strawmen and broad generalities that don't apply.

I went back through the last several pages and I could pull all the quotes and make a cliff note version, but you can all scroll back and get better context if you're interested. If you take personal comments out of it PPS is arguing against censorship and shutting down conversations because of people being hypersensitive and overly PC. The frustration for me (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) is that not one person here is advocating for that. No one. And when that's pointed out it's either ignored or refuted with why something in the article posted isn't fair. Something with which no one here agreed.

Using Terrie's post to illustrate how she was advocating for censorship and silencing the difficult conversation showed either a major issue with reading comprehension in this instance or yes, being willfully obtuse because Terrie's point was the exact opposite of advocating for censorship.

I for one have no issue with divergent opinion. The issue is instead of addressing the fact that it's been pointed out ad nauseam in the last few pages that no one was advocating for censorship, punishment for lack of TW, etc. that those are the points still being vociferously argued along with the fall back of being persecuted because people are responding to the words being used. People aren't annoyed because of divergent opinions, they are annoyed because straw-man arguments are annoying and pointless.

It's the lack of logic in some of the posts and/or poor communication skills which have resulted in a stalemate regarding the actual topic and so the old standby of mean girls or whatever is hauled out because it's easier to accuse someone (or a group of someones) with personal bias (which you can't prove/disprove) than actual facts you can source.

Whether this started as shit stirring for sport doesn't really matter and while I suspect the answer is yes I don't personally care. But if it wasn't and this was a good faith attempt to have a legit discussion on an important topic I would ask why PPS didn't address the fact that multiple people have pointed out that what she's arguing wasn't being championed by anyone here. If multiple people kept telling me I was missing one specific point I would stop and reread everything to see if that was the case. And if after re-reading I thought I was addressing the point and that you were all full of shit I'd post why I was indeed addressing the point correctly. To not do so is either disingenuous or speaks to the inability to clearly articulate meaning, depending on whether they won't explain or can't.

But when inconvenient questions are consistently ignored in favor of strawmen and cries of personal animus one can't be surprised that the more cynical among us will question their intentions. Like I said, I don't personally care but being offended that some people think one is shit stirring in this case would be like my being offended that the bank hit the silent alarm if I walked in wearing a ski mask...If it looks like duck some people will assume it quacks.

[VelociRapture]

I hardly participated in the discussion other than posting a rather good article. I started to respond when I read the flat out insults addressed to PPS, Beb and MD, I was even sent to the Dr.

The advice/instruction to reevaluate your opinions because of a common denominator, is condescending and utterly arrogant.

A permanent source of irritation is the contribution of personal discomfort/drama of any kind, depression, obesity and the like. It muddles the discussion, simply because the world doesn't revolve around some of the people here.

Having said that, thanks to La Papette and you, I know you mean well and I appreciate your attempt to lead the discussion in the right/adult direction, on the other hand personally, I like a spirited discussion. Thanks anyway and La Papette of course.

I understand. I was going to address other things as well I've seen from people who fall into both camps - but I decided it was best to just keep things on the short and concise side.

I understand your point here. I also understand the point that other people have attempted to make as well. I enjoy a spirited discussion too, but this struck me as veering away from that and just into petty argument territory - the land where nothing gets resolved and no one learns anything. :lol:

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I hardly participated in the discussion other than posting a rather good article. I started to respond when I read the flat out insults addressed to PPS, Beb and MD, I was even sent to the Dr.

The advice/instruction to reevaluate your opinions because of a common denominator, is condescending and utterly arrogant.

A permanent source of irritation is the contribution of personal discomfort/drama of any kind, depression, obesity and the like. It muddles the discussion, simply because the world doesn't revolve around some of the people here.

Having said that, thanks to La Papette and you, I know you mean well and I appreciate your attempt to lead the discussion in the right/adult direction, on the other hand personally, I like a spirited discussion. Thanks anyway and La Papette of course.

Thanks. I also love good heated discussions. After all if we all thought things in the same way the world would be too boring. What I personally hate is when discussion is derailed by obtuseness and it stales and none can make good points about anything.

I don't agree with the bolded though. I hope people are well aware FJ is not a self-help group and so, when people share their (often very emotional) experiences, I simply assume that they are trying to explain how they came to think and feel in a certain way. I never thought that sharing said experiences people wanted to forcibly shut down the conversation. Maybe I am wrong in thinking this way or maybe I am naive, I don't care, I thank those who wanted to contribute to the debate in that way and go on with the discussion that was enriched with their opinions.

[PregnantPornStar]

I hardly participated in the discussion other than posting a rather good article. I started to respond when I read the flat out insults addressed to PPS, Beb and MD, I was even sent to the Dr.

The advice/instruction to reevaluate your opinions because of a common denominator, is condescending and utterly arrogant.

A permanent source of irritation is the contribution of personal discomfort/drama of any kind, depression, obesity and the like. It muddles the discussion, simply because the world doesn't revolve around some of the people here.

Having said that, thanks to La Papette and you, I know you mean well and I appreciate your attempt to lead the discussion in the right/adult direction, on the other hand personally, I like a spirited discussion. Thanks anyway and La Papette of course.

This.

There have been a few, who seem to have a differing opinion than myself, who have responded in a rather patronizing manner. Firstly, I must point out, my feelings are not hurt. This is a forum and a forum where I don't know everyone super well. Not only that, but I am aware that people have differing opinions and will argue mine. That being said, being patronizing does nothing for a discussion. Also, I will either choose to ignore it, regardless of your efforts to post, or, I will respond. If you are patronizing, don't expect a kindly reply. This conversation could have been much more productive had people not speculated, which I initially tried to ignore for this very reason. If you must speculate, possibly try to do so in a less patronizing manner (those who were patronizing, I realize not all were) and realize that you may be incorrect, and by doing so, you are hindering a good conversation.

As to the points in this, Yes, I most often disagree that a TW is needed. I not only think TW are "coddling" people, but we are also feel that they are preventing people from figuring out how to respectfully discuss sensitive issues (So, the speaker of a sensitive issue gives a TW and may be less respectful or thoughtful in their wording, if that makes sense) I also never said anyone on here was advocating for punishment for lack of TW. I believe I specifically pointed out my fear of a "slippery slope" and the potential for lawsuits and such to become the norm. I think it is fair to say that America has a bit of a lawsuit mentality.

So, while some are advocating for TW, me pondering the potential consequences of a "TW culture" does not mean I am stating you are advocating for people to be punished. If I have not articulated myself well in this thread, I apologize. Due to the general "drama" the conversation was dead a long time ago IMO. The tone in which one discusses is absolutely going to impact how a discussion flows. You can dispute what I say all you want, but the patronizing tone, the word games and so forth made this thread rather tired. Spirited discussions are great, but condescending comments to a dissenting opinion are obnoxious.

[PregnantPornStar]

Thanks. I also love good heated discussions. After all if we all thought things in the same way the world would be too boring. What I personally hate is when discussion is derailed by obtuseness and it stales and none can make good points about anything.

I don't agree with the bolded though. I hope people are well aware FJ is not a self-help group and so, when people share their (often very emotional) experiences, I simply assume that they are trying to explain how they came to think and feel in a certain way. I never thought that sharing said experiences people wanted to forcibly shut down the conversation. Maybe I am wrong in thinking this way or maybe I am naive, I don't care, I thank those who wanted to contribute to the debate in that way and go on with the discussion that was enriched with their opinions.

I would like to think that people are trying to share how they came to think and feel a certain way. However, I don't think that is always the case. I truly think it is a a consequence of "coddling the American Mind". I don't mean to be harsh when I say this, but I do see it happening more and more. Especially with younger individuals. I have stated I have a teenage daughter. She is a pretty bright kid and we have a lot of great discussions with her, yet we are often left worried by some of the things that are said in classroom discussions. I think one of her biggest struggles is speaking freely and honestly (but respectfully) and speaking what is not going to stir up emotions.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Excuse me? Who the fuck do you think you are? If you don't like what I have to say, you are free to foe me. Everyone can express their opinion here whether you like that opinion or not.

I don't know what is going on with you lately, but you have been even more obnoxious than usual. Your English seems to be slipping as well, which I find a bit odd given how long you have been here. I say this with sincerity, that perhaps you need to visit your dr.

Um, where did THAT come from?

I know that ad hominem attacks aren't prohibited by the terms of use, but they don't make for productive debate and discussion. You're better than that.

Once upon a time, I was part of a board where one particular poster would occasionally go off on others, and she also shared that she had wacky hormone issues (PCOS) that caused some extreme mood swings. When I genuinely thought that some of her posts were motivated by medical issues, I'd PM her and ask if things were ok, because the tone was sounding out of character again. Here, I'm not feeling the sincerity and true concern for La Traviata's health (and if it WAS sincere, the concern was not expressed effectively).