Speaking of being PC...

[Anny Nym]

To add to the SoM discussion:  Maria wasn't the governess to all the children, but just one.  The children were half English. She *may* have been pregnant when she married Georg (or else someone made a mistake on their entrance papers to the US).  She did not introduce them to music, the already sand as a family.  Georg wasn't mean and arrogant, he was kindly, absent minded, and somewhat ineffectual.  The family was annoyed by the portrayal of Georg in the film.  Maria was not beloved by all the children.  In fact, she may have been personality disordered.  She was inconsistent, moody and had a raging temper.  A lot of the older von Trapp off-spring made hefty efforts to get away from the Maria-dominated family and the Choir but she held on to them like grim death.  She threw fits when family members tried to get married and move away.

She did become a missionary to Papua New Guinea with a stepdaughter and one of her daughters in later life.  The Trapp Family Lodge (not the original building) still exists in Vermont and cashes in on the movie in every move it makes.  Last time I looked was still managed by Georg and Maria's youngest son, Johannes, and his children.  www.trappfamily.com.

Sorry to blast a few more illusions.

The bolded part from @‌Palimpsest sums up in english what the analysis paper in my first link above states in german. A example from it would be that about Johanna: She was the first one to break away and was shunned her whole life by Maria for this. Johanna moved back to Vienna, where she had a family.

Another girl, Rosemarie, did recieve electroshocks to "function on stage" She was depressive (no wonder!), and I know in that times this was a state-of-art therapy method (or even worse, see Rosemary Kennedy - rather spooky they had the same name, no?) ... however not a great example of parenting here. 

Johannes is by the way the one being known as -behind closed doors - Wasner´s illegitimate son with Maria (2nd link in german above).He is  to be known, as I was told, as being  a extremly unpleasant person, who  likes to brag and pose at every possibly chance.

 

When they still lived in Salzburg, everyone had great pity for Georg: First his wife died, she was rather popular with everyone, then Maria (she was-obviously-not!)  snatched him, he lost all his money at the crisis, ... poor fellow should have stayed in Istria, whould have dodged alot of bullets then.

 

You still can visit the grave of his first wife Agathe neé Whitehead  by the way. It´s in Klosterneuburg, Lower Austria.

[Maggie Mae]

@Anny Nym My mom is well aware that the Trapp family is not the Von Trapp family. Some people just like fictional happy endings. I don't know, it's just a movie. I thought people know that movies based on real life are often changed to appeal to audiences. 

 

@FundieFarmer I like your analogy. That's kind of how I think about it too. 

[Anny Nym]

@Anny Nym My mom is well aware that the Trapp family is not the Von Trapp family. Some people just like fictional happy endings. I don't know, it's just a movie. I thought people know that movies based on real life are often changed to appeal to audiences. 

 

@FundieFarmer I like your analogy. That's kind of how I think about it too. 

To be fair, you just wrote your mom likes big happy families - which the Trapps obviously weren´t. So I thought I had to refer to this in some way in my post about the real Trapps.

Yes, movies are - that´s why it is always so important to set some things straight. Or people may end up feeling pretty awkward, if they find out that their favorite "The real Story of..." movie character was the complete opposite in real life.

 

[nausicaa]

@Anny Nym this reminds me of how difficult it is to explain to people that Juliet's Balcony in Verona is a blatant fake 

Oh dear. You'd think the play being fictional and all might clue them in. 

[browncoatslytherin]

I don't know if I'd necessarily consider it a cultural site, but @Anny Nym, you've just described how most Orlandoans feel about the Mouse House.

and how most twin city natives feel about the mall of america...just a crowded-ass tourist trap. fun to go to once in a while, but in very, very limited doses.

[Maggie Mae]

To be fair, you just wrote your mom likes big happy families - which the Trapps obviously weren´t. So I thought I had to refer to this in some way in my post about the real Trapps.

Yes, movies are - that´s why it is always so important to set some things straight. Or people may end up feeling pretty awkward, if they find out that their favorite "The real Story of..." movie character was the complete opposite in real life.

 

 

I did. I'm sorry if I was terse. I think it's strange that people would visit the location of a movie they liked, honestly. Granted, we usually get people who want to visit a decaying bus from a movie so there's that. 

You must find the romanticization of that family very strange. I too live in a popular tourist destination and have answered all sorts of inane questions. 

[nausicaa]

 

and how most twin city natives feel about the mall of america...just a crowded-ass tourist trap. fun to go to once in a while, but in very, very limited doses.

And the Washington monument is for DCers. It's just a guidepost for when you're lost. 

[Terrie]

Sound of Music doesn't sound any worse than other "based on a true story" movies out of Hollywood. Just with added music.

[SilverBeach]

And the Washington monument is for DCers. It's just a guidepost for when you're lost. 

And Millennium Park (with the Bean) is for Chicagoans.

[apple1]

I don't think babywearing is appropriation. I can see why people would say Dr. Sears and the way he presents it are, but I'm willing to admit that it might be because the guy is a pompous asshole and brings condescension and arrogance to everything he touches. 

I paired respect and learning against ignorance and arrogance for a reason. In both cases, people lack knowledge, but with one set of traits, they seek to correct it, and in another, they are convinced they have nothing they need to learn, because they know best. And while I don't think anyone has an obligation to teach everyone who demands it (because explaining to the 15th person in a day why something is disrespectful gets old FAST, especially when many don't want to listen), there's no need to be rude about it.

Preface: I am now Grandma-age. This was YEARS ago. I "wore" my babies. I didn't call it babywearing - that term didn't exist, that I know of. The internet didn't exist in a form that was available to most people. I had a Snugli (brand of soft carrier) and I did WHAT WORKED FOR ME. No cultural appropriation. Hadn't heard of Dr. Sears. I guess there were books about "attachment parenting" but I hadn't seen one.

I just did what I needed to do as a Mom. I'm not about to get on a guilt trip about it now -- nor to guilt trip some Mom who is also just doing what she needs to do.

[sawasdee]

I remember Snuglis! And I have only heard the term babywearing in the last few years...first person I knew who carried a baby like that was almost 30 years ago, and it was considered beneficial for preemies.

[halcionne]

While I don't think babywearing per se is culturally appropriative, I have wondered about the use of culturally specific carriers, such as meitais and rebozos, by people from outside those cultures.

[thebestusername]

Hmm... I think this can be summed up by one of the most simultaneously politically incorrect and nice celebrities I know of.

You know what makes people feel bad and what doesn't. Just don't do the stuff that makes them feel bad.

Danny Sexbang

I think that is pretty good advice in any of these kinds of situations. It all depends on the person and situation that we are talking about.

[Playagirl]

So the University of Ottawa has cancelled a free yoga class over fears of cultural appropriation. Political correctness run amok.

Article at CBC News not broken because legitimate news site:  CBC News

[2xx1xy1JD]

So the University of Ottawa has cancelled a free yoga class over fears of cultural appropriation. Political correctness run amok.

Article at CBC News not broken because legitimate news site:  CBC News

Yup.  You have the loss of a class that was benefiting people at the students with disabilities center, and you have a bunch of student exercising power despite the fact that nobody actually complained about the class.  Honestly, the bottom line is that it comes across as power tripping - wondering if something is offensive and getting offended on behalf of a community without actually bothering to listen to their input.

I've seen other examples of this "I'm going to protest and get offended on your behalf, without actually talking to you" sort of activism, and it's not pretty.

One rage-inducing example was a master's thesis criticizing the March of the Living (an annual trip to Poland by students, which includes visiting concentration camps).  The author said that while it was "beyond the scope" of her thesis to actually interview any participants, it would be "interesting and important" to know how non-Europe Jewish youth experience the trip.  Since she didn't bother to speak to them, though, she can "only hypothesize their discomfort as being forced to identify with Ashkenazi Jewish history".  Well, no, she CAN'T fucking hypothesize that.  Unlike unicorns, non-European Jewish students who have gone on that trip exist, in her city.  You don't get to sit on your ass because you're too lazy to do actual research and ignore a group of people, and then pretend to have concern for them and speak in their names.  [Unlike that thesis writer, I do speak with many, many non-European Jews, several of whom were on those trips including my husband, and the universal response has been along the lines of "she's fucked in the head", with a side order of "doesn't she know that 90% of the Jewish community in Salonika was killed, and that they were Sephardic?"

 

[Boogalou]

This is being discussed oven in shark in case anyone wants to weigh in over there  

[Maggie Mae]

This is being discussed oven in shark in case anyone wants to weigh in over there  

Did you at least jump the shark before you shoved it in the oven?

[sockinshoe]

Yup.  You have the loss of a class that was benefiting people at the students with disabilities center, and you have a bunch of student exercising power despite the fact that nobody actually complained about the class.  Honestly, the bottom line is that it comes across as power tripping - wondering if something is offensive and getting offended on behalf of a community without actually bothering to listen to their input.

I've seen other examples of this "I'm going to protest and get offended on your behalf, without actually talking to you" sort of activism, and it's not pretty.

One rage-inducing example was a master's thesis criticizing the March of the Living (an annual trip to Poland by students, which includes visiting concentration camps).  The author said that while it was "beyond the scope" of her thesis to actually interview any participants, it would be "interesting and important" to know how non-Europe Jewish youth experience the trip.  Since she didn't bother to speak to them, though, she can "only hypothesize their discomfort as being forced to identify with Ashkenazi Jewish history".  Well, no, she CAN'T fucking hypothesize that.  Unlike unicorns, non-European Jewish students who have gone on that trip exist, in her city.  You don't get to sit on your ass because you're too lazy to do actual research and ignore a group of people, and then pretend to have concern for them and speak in their names.  [Unlike that thesis writer, I do speak with many, many non-European Jews, several of whom were on those trips including my husband, and the universal response has been along the lines of "she's fucked in the head", with a side order of "doesn't she know that 90% of the Jewish community in Salonika was killed, and that they were Sephardic?"

 

I couldn't agree more with this. I actually have heard some criticisms of March of the Living from people who went on it; their comments seemed to be more on the emphasis on Israel as a catch-all solution for anti-semitism/any problems affecting Jews and on the weird tonal clashes between visiting concentration camps and kids hooking up on the trip (both totally fair criticisms, imo). I think a lot of people, i.e. this masters student, think they're really on to something and then refuse to change their stance on it when actual members of the community contradict them. At my hipstery east coast liberal arts college, there's been a recent suggestion from the student union that people who aren't actually Buddhist/Muslim should not hang Buddhist prayer flags/hands of Fatima in their rooms. To my knowledge, no Buddhists or Muslims were asked their opinion on this. In my opinion, that's even shakier ground to stand on cultural-appropriation wise. It's telling a culture "No, you don't get an opinion. We know your culture better than you do and we can act on your behalf without consulting you first". 

However, I've recently had this thread/political correctness on my mind because I just found out that my old dorm room was given to a girl who regularly wears a Washington football sweater (their team name is super insulting to indigenous people). I know I have no claim to that space, but I was hoping that whoever moved in would have a modicum of awareness and less racist taste in clothes.

[Terrie]

Ugh, The Washington football team. The bets they can come up with to defend themselves is 1) tradition and 2) Well, the mascot isn't as bad as some teams out there. Maybe not, but the name is a racist slur, so their mascot could be rainbows and unicorns and I'd still hate it.

[Boogalou]

 

Did you at least jump the shark before you shoved it in the oven?

When I first read this I had no idea what you were talking about.  Then I read my typo...  Oh, autocorrect.

[Maggie Mae]

Ugh, The Washington football team. The bets they can come up with to defend themselves is 1) tradition and 2) Well, the mascot isn't as bad as some teams out there. Maybe not, but the name is a racist slur, so their mascot could be rainbows and unicorns and I'd still hate it.

Or they could change it to a redskin potato.

Anyway, the owner of the Washington team has double downed on the name and merchandise. It'll change, eventaully. But the nfl will have to step in or he'll sell the team or die. I enjoyed the jon Stewart show reporting on this issue. I think it aired last year.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337683/Fashion-label-slammed-disgusting-violation-sacred-Inuit-laws-using-shaman-s-holy-design-600-sweatshirt.html 

What do you think about this? 

[2xx1xy1JD]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337683/Fashion-label-slammed-disgusting-violation-sacred-Inuit-laws-using-shaman-s-holy-design-600-sweatshirt.html 

What do you think about this? 

I think they stole the design without consent.  I'm not going to use wishy-washy words like "cultural appropriation".  It was the design of a specific man.  They clearly ripped off the design.  Vaguely referencing a culture does not mean that you obtained permission to use intellectual property.

Imagine producing knock-off Louis Vuitton bags and saying, "but we said that we were inspired by the French fashion culture".

If you truly want to present Inuit designs, hire an Inuit designer and make it clear that the designs can represent the culture, but should be the designer's original work and not just copied from someone else.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I think they stole the design without consent.  I'm not going to use wishy-washy words like "cultural appropriation".  It was the design of a specific man.  They clearly ripped off the design.  Vaguely referencing a culture does not mean that you obtained permission to use intellectual property.

Imagine producing knock-off Louis Vuitton bags and saying, "but we said that we were inspired by the French fashion culture".

If you truly want to present Inuit designs, hire an Inuit designer and make it clear that the designs can represent the culture, but should be the designer's original work and not just copied from someone else.

 

I think it is even worse if possible.  It's clear that that particular design had a spiritual-religious meaning that made it without price because it is specified that it is in none's availability to sell. Louis Vuitton's purses have a price, collaborations with Vuitton's maison have a price, that item was invaluable because it's own nature of sacred object, it isn't a property. It's a strange concept in our society: the idea that something isn't a property (after all we are talking about cultural appropriation). The only comparison that I can think of in this moment is the Eucharist. IMHO it's an act of profound disrespect and desecration born out of ignorance.

[sparkles]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337683/Fashion-label-slammed-disgusting-violation-sacred-Inuit-laws-using-shaman-s-holy-design-600-sweatshirt.html 

What do you think about this? 

In this particular case, I think cultural appropriation never even entered into the equation. They saw a design they liked so they stole it and I don't think the fact that it had spiritual significance bothered them one bit.

Creative theft is nothing new; in fact, if you're a creative, it's almost at the point where you should expect your work will be appropriated by a company somewhere in the world, without attribution or compensation. Check out http://youthoughtwewouldntnotice.com/blog3/. I've been following this site for a few years and the theft is so blatant it's mind boggling.