TLC - pimps for the fundies?

[FloraDoraDolly]

I agree on Jazz. Has Jazz actually been encouraged to this, because of the Mother?

If by "this" you mean the public activism and the TV show, I would say yes, the mom is the one in the driver's seat. Jazz has been in the public eye since the age of six, when she was featured on a Barbara Walters special about trans kids.

If by "this" you mean Jazz being trans, I don't think the mom pushed her into it per se. There is plenty of video footage showing Jazz as a toddler gravitating toward glittery pink toys and clothes. These belonged to Jazz's older sister; the mom wasn't putting Disney princess dresses on Baby Jazz because she wanted her son to be a girl or anything like that. So Jazz was gender variant from a very young age. But the way the mom dealt with it, it seems like she went full speed ahead.

[Maggie Mae]

If by "this" you mean the public activism and the TV show, I would say yes, the mom is the one in the driver's seat. Jazz has been in the public eye since the age of six, when she was featured on a Barbara Walters special about trans kids.

If by "this" you mean Jazz being trans, I don't think the mom pushed her into it per se. There is plenty of video footage showing Jazz as a toddler gravitating toward glittery pink toys and clothes. These belonged to Jazz's older sister; the mom wasn't putting Disney princess dresses on Baby Jazz because she wanted her son to be a girl or anything like that. So Jazz was gender variant from a very young age. But the way the mom dealt with it, it seems like she went full speed ahead.

But gravitating toward pink sparkles doesn't make someone a girl. The idea that pink and sparkles= girl is a social construct. If Jazz's parents put this idea in her head to ride the fame train, that's wrong.

Of course, I don't know anything about this other that what is posted here.

[FloraDoraDolly]

But gravitating toward pink sparkles doesn't make someone a girl. The idea that pink and sparkles= girl is a social construct. If Jazz's parents put this idea in her head to ride the fame train, that's wrong.

Of course, I don't know anything about this other that what is posted here.

I agree with you about how liking pink sparkles doesn't equal "girl" but that's how Jazz's family tells their story. Other families with a male-to-female trans kid tell similar stories. The kid only wants "girl" stuff and won't have anything to do with "boy" stuff. Even Caitlyn Jenner's story is a variation on that theme, except it's about adult women's clothes, makeup, and hairstyles rather than Disney princess costumes, Barbie dream houses, and pigtails.

There's another story Jazz's mother likes to tell about how two-year-old Jazz came to her one day and asked, "When is the good fairy going to come and change my penis into a vagina?" I can't imagine any two-year-old talking like that, but that's their story.

[wotdancer]

I agree with you about how liking pink sparkles doesn't equal "girl" but that's how Jazz's family tells their story. Other families with a male-to-female trans kid tell similar stories. The kid only wants "girl" stuff and won't have anything to do with "boy" stuff. Even Caitlyn Jenner's story is a variation on that theme, except it's about adult women's clothes, makeup, and hairstyles rather than Disney princess costumes, Barbie dream houses, and pigtails.

There's another story Jazz's mother likes to tell about how two-year-old Jazz came to her one day and asked, "When is the good fairy going to come and change my penis into a vagina?" I can't imagine any two-year-old talking like that, but that's their story.

A little girl I babysat informed her mom (when she was ~3 years old) that all babies are born with boy parts, but girls grow up and their boy parts fall off. We never did find out where/how/why she came up with this theory!

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I have a real issue with parents pushing their kids to be an activist and putting them on TV. Just growing up is hard enough without cameras around and Jazz is definitely going through more than most kids. I definitely get a vibe that his mother relishes the drama and attention.

[lilah]

It's fascinating to me how precisest Truman Show was about filming a person's life for entertainment. I think think there's something inherently exploitative about that, especially when there are children involved who can't give their informed consent. There are little Duggars and little Gosslin (among other reality tv kids) who have no early memories of life without a camera documenting their every move. It just seems abnormal and unhealthy. That's not even how reality tv tries to manipulate things through editing and interviews, filming things over and over again to get the right shot. What is worse is that children are not protected legally or financially. Child actors have laws dictating that they are paid a certain amount of money and can only be on camera for a certain amount of time. Reality tv show children have no such protections.

[Exposedknees]

I have a real issue with parents pushing their kids to be an activist and putting them on TV. Just growing up is hard enough without cameras around and Jazz is definitely going through more than most kids. I definitely get a vibe that his mother relishes the drama and attention.

I agree, I'm worried that Jazz is being exploited. The mom seems gushy and pushy and sometimes seems to be putting ideas into her mouth. Things seem over produced beforehand, as if scripted.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I agree, I'm worried that Jazz is being exploited. The mom seems gushy and pushy and sometimes seems to be putting ideas into her mouth. Things seem over produced beforehand, as if scripted.

What really floored me was in (I think) the first episode when the mom took Jazz to the doctor. Jazz has been on puberty blockers for some years and is now on female hormones. But she won't be old enough for surgery until she is 18 and she herself did not bring it up. In fact, when the doctor asked her how she felt about her body, she said she's used to it being the way it is.

Now, if I were the parent of a teenaged trans kid who said they were OK with their body as-is, I'd feel relieved and I'd let the matter drop. But the doctor started talking to Jazz about surgery anyway. Then that night, Jazz's mom started crying and carrying on about how in just four short years, poor Jazz will have to endure all these surgeries and medical procedures. I'm thinking WTF??? If Jazz is OK with her body the way it is, why should anybody put ideas into her head about surgery? I mean, if there's a possibility that she can live her life happily without it, isn't that a good thing?

[FloraDoraDolly]

It's fascinating to me how precisest Truman Show was about filming a person's life for entertainment. I think think there's something inherently exploitative about that, especially when there are children involved who can't give their informed consent. There are little Duggars and little Gosslin (among other reality tv kids) who have no early memories of life without a camera documenting their every move. It just seems abnormal and unhealthy. That's not even how reality tv tries to manipulate things through editing and interviews, filming things over and over again to get the right shot. What is worse is that children are not protected legally or financially. Child actors have laws dictating that they are paid a certain amount of money and can only be on camera for a certain amount of time. Reality tv show children have no such protections.

I still can't believe TLC was allowed to film Baby Josie in the NICU.

[Maggie Mae]

Every child right now is growing up "on camera." Just most of the films don't go much further than facebook. Every idiot with a smartphone has a camera. Kids today all have a vastly different expectation of privacy. We had to learn to adapt to the sudden lack of it. (Photos on facebook you don't expect, videos on vine, etc.) At least these kids grow up knowing that everything they do will be seen. Healthy or not, that's kind of just how it is right now. Reality TV kids are obviously worse off in the privacy department, but they also get higher quality footage for their future wedding montage. And they get paid.

[Cleopatra7]

Every child right now is growing up "on camera." Just most of the films don't go much further than facebook. Every idiot with a smartphone has a camera. Kids today all have a vastly different expectation of privacy. We had to learn to adapt to the sudden lack of it. (Photos on facebook you don't expect, videos on vine, etc.) At least these kids grow up knowing that everything they do will be seen. Healthy or not, that's kind of just how it is right now. Reality TV kids are obviously worse off in the privacy department, but they also get higher quality footage for their future wedding montage. And they get paid.

I think there is a huge difference between home movies and social media and being a "child star" on a reality show. While social media has changed expectations about privacy, most of us are completely anonymous as far as the mass media is concerned. The tabloids, the morning shows, gossip sites, and late night TV are not interest in the antics of 99.9 percent of the public. Even the people who get snarked on here and on sites like GOMI are unimportant in the larger media environment; I seriously doubt that McMama, for example, is being mobbed when she goes to the grocery store in the same way that Kim Kardashian would be, assuming the latter even does her own shopping. Only those who have made a point to have public careers get the coveted honor of being fodder for the media machine. The howlers and the lost girls have grown up in the eye of the media and are used to the perks associated with celebrity (e.g., nice clothes, trips, adoration from fans, appearances on TV), which kids who have only been on social media will never experience. Even the youngest Duggars are going to notice how much their lives different their lives will be, post-TLC.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I think there is a huge difference between home movies and social media and being a "child star" on a reality show. While social media has changed expectations about privacy, most of us are completely anonymous as far as the mass media is concerned. The tabloids, the morning shows, gossip sites, and late night TV are not interest in the antics of 99.9 percent of the public. Even the people who get snarked on here and on sites like GOMI are unimportant in the larger media environment; I seriously doubt that McMama, for example, is being mobbed when she goes to the grocery store in the same way that Kim Kardashian would be, assuming the latter even does her own shopping. Only those who have made a point to have public careers get the coveted honor of being fodder for the media machine. The howlers and the lost girls have grown up in the eye of the media and are used to the perks associated with celebrity (e.g., nice clothes, trips, adoration from fans, appearances on TV), which kids who have only been on social media will never experience. Even the youngest Duggars are going to notice how much their lives different their lives will be, post-TLC.

One of my friends has a 13-year-old son who asked her not to post any photos of him on social media. So she doesn't. She respects his wishes.

On the other side of the coin were some of the girls from Dance Moms who didn't want to do the show anymore, but had to continue because their parents signed a contract. The kids' wishes-- even the parents' wishes, by that point-- were not respected.

At any rate, being a kid on reality TV just isn't the same as being an ordinary 21st century kid with a parent who blogs or posts a lot of photos on social media. My aforementioned friend has three daughters whose photos are still posted regularly on her FB page. Two of them started the new school year this week and the baby celebrated her first birthday. My friend's friends and relatives made some positive comments and that was it. This is nowhere close to the attention and Internet traffic that reality TV families get for these same ordinary family events. Regular families aren't held to the same level of scrutiny.

[RosyDaisy]

There's another story Jazz's mother likes to tell about how two-year-old Jazz came to her one day and asked, "When is the good fairy going to come and change my penis into a vagina?" I can't imagine any two-year-old talking like that, but that's their story.

Jazz herself told that same story, and I agree. Maybe she used "cutsie" words as a small child, but they used proper terms for the show so as not to sound silly?

This can't be easy for Jazz, and I feel for her. I want to hear more from Jazz and her peers and less from the adults. I also get the impression that there is a lot of heavy editing and scripting.

[Jenesis]

It's mean to film/photograph your kids too the extreme! When I was 7 my sister was born and THANK GOD my mom had someone else to take pictures of.

There is a point when you (ironically) start to feel lonely.

I feel sorry for the kids who are on t.v. That would be hard to handle when you became aware.

[lilah]

Every child right now is growing up "on camera." Just most of the films don't go much further than facebook. Every idiot with a smartphone has a camera. Kids today all have a vastly different expectation of privacy. We had to learn to adapt to the sudden lack of it. (Photos on facebook you don't expect, videos on vine, etc.) At least these kids grow up knowing that everything they do will be seen. Healthy or not, that's kind of just how it is right now. Reality TV kids are obviously worse off in the privacy department, but they also get higher quality footage for their future wedding montage. And they get paid.

I think there are two separate issues as play. There is the loss of privacy in the age of social media. (this is why I refuse to share pictures of my child except to select individuals and never any pictures of her in compromising or embarrassing situations). Then there's the issue of exploitation. The reality show parents are making money off their children and there's no guarantee the children see a dime of the money.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Jazz herself told that same story, and I agree. Maybe she used "cutsie" words as a small child, but they used proper terms for the show so as not to sound silly?

This can't be easy for Jazz, and I feel for her. I want to hear more from Jazz and her peers and less from the adults. I also get the impression that there is a lot of heavy editing and scripting.

I wonder if Jazz really remembers that incident or if she is repeating a story she heard from her mother? If she had been five or six at the time, that'd be one thing. But two??? My mom has told me about stuff I said and did at that age-- and I was one of those freak babies who talked very early-- but I don't remember any of it. I remember Mom's stories, but not the incidents themselves.

[CinderJana]

Her mother did not make her transgender. similar statements have been by other young trans kids--- http://www.etonline.com/news/163373_9_i ... e_parents/

[MatthewDuggar]

I live in Asia. Where TLC is positioned on my cable choices, I thought it stood for The Living Channel - you know, decorating, lifestyle,fashion, food - that it stood for The Learning Channel is.......surprising?

I'm not surprised. I live in the US but have travelled to central and south america and while the shows are pretty much the same, they were positioned as TLC "Travel and Living Channel". Apparently they dropped the full name and just go as TLC like they do in the US. "Learning" has pretty much been forgotten about for years.

[RosyDaisy]

I completely agree that Jazz's mother did not make her transgender.