AR Politician Jim Holt - Family involvement

[Ave Maria]

What was the actual quote about sin in the camp?

I had always thought that it was probably something where someone had sinned against the candidate somehow (and caused him to lose). Now it seems much less direct, but far more sinister.

[Pandie5]

Page 32 Quote: "Inv Taylor stated that she found out who had written the letter that started this investigation. She (Inv Taylor) talked to and found out that was the person who wrote the letter. was the person that was supposed to have with until the allegations started."

Actually, the more I read this, the more I think it was Kaeleigh Holt who wrote the letter. She would have been a minor hence the need to redact her name...

"Inv Taylor stated that she found out who had written the letter that started this investigation. She (Inv Taylor) talked to ? and found out that was the person who wrote the letter. was the person that was supposed to have with until the allegations started."

This fits the larger redacted sections... and seems to make logical sense given the situation and timelines etc.

another member suggested this here viewtopic.php?f=87&p=957542#p957542

I think we're onto it...

#1. Why would Jim Holt's name be redacted? He wasn't a minor. Maybe unrelated parties are redacted too. I don't know.

#2. The "been in a betrothal" could easy be "babysat the children".

[ShepherdontheRock]

#1. Why would Jim Holt's name be redacted? He wasn't a minor. Maybe unrelated parties are redacted too. I don't know.

#2. The "been in a betrothal" could easy be "babysat the children".

Yeah, I'm thinking they could have redacted his name to avoid people identifying, even incorrectly, non duggar minors that may have somehow been involved.

They could have also have written "a relationship" or whatever. I'm suggesting this because, although they were courting, I know Ben used to refer to Jessa as his girlfriend on twitter and some other social media.

[DuggarWatch]

Page 32 Quote: "Inv Taylor stated that she found out who had written the letter that started this investigation. She (Inv Taylor) talked to and found out that was the person who wrote the letter. was the person that was supposed to have with until the allegations started."

Actually, the more I read this, the more I think it was Kaeleigh Holt who wrote the letter. She would have been a minor hence the need to redact her name...

"Inv Taylor stated that she found out who had written the letter that started this investigation. She (Inv Taylor) talked to ? and found out that was the person who wrote the letter. was the person that was supposed to have with until the allegations started."

This fits the larger redacted sections... and seems to make logical sense given the situation and timelines etc.

another member suggested this here viewtopic.php?f=87&p=957542#p957542

I think we're onto it...

I was thinking exactly the same thing, and I hadn't read the other post. One of the reasons it makes sense to me that Kaeleigh wrote the letter is that the teens (including Josh at the time) didn't have full Internet access and the Duggar kids' emails were monitored by the parents (even when Jessa and Jill were engaged!).

Who would need to write a letter in this day and age? Who would need to send a message via a snail-mail letter to the Duggar household? Who would need to discuss and itemize the molestation allegations? It could be that the Holt father hand-delivered the letter because his daughter was no longer allowed to talk to Josh. Who but Josh would be so stupid as to leave an incriminating letter like that stuffed into a book?

At the time of their first 'betrothal' (there were two and, apparently, before the family used the term 'courting'), the teenagers were only 14 years old.

[Flyinthesoup]

-The author of the letter is likely a male, due to the pronoun, "he" was not redacted.

-I am beginning to wonder if the person who 'found' the letter and the person who 'disclosed' the letter to the Oprah show, are two different people. On page 32 of the police report, it states that: "the person that disclosed this information...." and that they "allegedly" have the letter. The person that disclosed the information does not know the "first names" and I am guessing that the redacted might be 'duggar family' first names.

-paragraph 4, page 32, I believe the small, redacted word may well be "Holt" family.

-also paragraph 4, page 32, I am of the belief that the redacted name of the person who sent the email may well be a family member of the Duggars, the redacted parts might be the name of the person, followed by a relationship.

This would mean that the person who found the letter, gave it to a Duggar family member, possibly to get clarity and conformation, before releasing the information...the person who wrote the email to the Oprah show, was not happy with the Duggars and came across at 'taking digs' at them, which could be a family member who is not happy....just my speculations.

*edited to add, they should not be happy with what the Duggars did, I was simply trying to say the 'tone' of the email sent to the Oprah show sounded like someone who already was not happy with the Duggars and was further angered by what they read in the letter......

[DuggarWatch]

-The author of the letter is likely a male, due to the pronoun, "he" was not redacted.

-I am beginning to wonder if the person who 'found' the letter and the person who 'disclosed' the letter to the Oprah show, are two different people. On page 32 of the police report, it states that: "the person that disclosed this information...." and that they "allegedly" have the letter. The person that disclosed the information does not know the "first names" and I am guessing that the redacted might be 'duggar family' first names.

-paragraph 4, page 32, I believe the small, redacted word may well be "Holt" family.

-also paragraph 4, page 32, I am of the belief that the redacted name of the person who sent the email may well be a family member of the Duggars, the redacted parts might be the name of the person, followed by a relationship.

This would mean that the person who found the letter, gave it to a Duggar family member, possibly to get clarity and conformation, before releasing the information...the person who wrote the email to the Oprah show, was not happy with the Duggars and came across at 'taking digs' at them, which could be a family member who is not happy....just my speculations.

The person who sent an email to Oprah found out about the letter in the book when the book was loaned to someone else. The letter, at that time, was no longer in possession of the person who wrote it and a copy of that letter was sent to Oprah.

[singsingsing]

Where does it say that a copy of the letter was sent to Oprah?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

What was the actual quote about sin in the camp?

I had always thought that it was probably something where someone had sinned against the candidate somehow (and caused him to lose). Now it seems much less direct, but far more sinister.

Was there an actual quote? I thought Alice just said that he was looking for a sin in the camp. I've never heard of a direct quote existing.

[Flyinthesoup]

The person who sent an email to Oprah found out about the letter in the book when the book was loaned to someone else. The letter, at that time, was no longer in possession of the person who wrote it and a copy of that letter was sent to Oprah.

I didn't realize that the person who found the letter and the person who wrote to the Oprah show, were not the same people. Thanks for the clarity, I don't know how I missed that.

[Flyinthesoup]

Where does it say that a copy of the letter was sent to Oprah?

Page 12 of the police report, second to last paragraph.

[singsingsing]

Page 12 of the police report, second to last paragraph.

Yeah, that whole section is really poorly written, but when they said Harpo 'faxed the letter' they meant the e-mail they received that warned them about the Duggars. If you flip over to the next page you'll see a copy of the fax sent by Harpo. It's the e-mail, not THE letter.

[Flyinthesoup]

Yeah, that whole section is really poorly written, but when they said Harpo 'faxed the letter' they meant the e-mail they received that warned them about the Duggars. If you flip over to the next page you'll see a copy of the fax sent by Harpo. It's the e-mail, not THE letter.

Thank you for pointing that out....I did not use correct terms. As you stated, it was a fax of the email, describing the Duggar actions, not the 'letter' that was written by the mysterious person. :) This person who emailed the Oprah show, is the 61 year old woman, who I am assuming is "Alice" or a friend of hers....again my assumptions!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

To the bolded, I also believe Holt was for Josh going to Piney Ridge, but the other elders agreed with the other option, thus why (I believe) Holt is the author of the letter. On page 15 of the police report, the person that wrote the letter, was said to have known of the actions Josh did, and unless that redacted mark states, "the girls", which makes no sense, I believe it's the actions to the 5th victim. I suspect Mr. Holt put that letter in the book, and when it was loaned out, it was loaned out to a 61 year old woman OR the husband of a 61 year old woman, who then phoned the hotline. I wouldn't be surprised if the 61 year old woman is related to Mr. Holt, but again, that's just my speculation. "Alice" comes across as someone who has a great deal of personal information on the Duggars, including financial. This is why I believe Jim Bob did not want to tell the identity of the author or receiver of the letter.

Further speculation from me, I believe the elders knew more of what Josh did, vs. the people in the church that Josh stood up to confess his sins to. I believe the leek of Josh's actions came via the elders....the other people in church most likely only knew of the porno stuff. All speculation on my part, but makes sense to me.

I wondered if "Alice" was the laundry lady who used to help out. Wasn't she a friend of Grandma Mary's? Just my speculation

[IReallyAmHopewell]

UGH! It just proves, once again, how inter-related these fundies are. (I hesitate to use the term incestuous for obvious reasons.)

A cult is a cult is a cult. I believe we've seen photos of family members fellowshipping with the Holts? Though maybe it was just the girls and women?

[ariel9]

I know that this thread has been on here for a while however I have been busy for a while and therefore just caught up in my reading. I know you all have moved on from this point but how on earth are two 14 year olds not just dating but engaged? How would this have been played off on their ministry err television show?

[Rachel333]

Jim Holt had a bit of a feud with Mike Huckabee, and I've wondered if the Duggars' enthusiastic support of Huckabee made things a bit tense between the families.

Holt's wikipedia page has a bit about it here.

I will say, the "Jesus juice" incident is probably the only time I've liked Huckabee, so I have Holt to blame for that. :lol: I don't understand how people like Holt can think it's the Christian thing to do to ban illegal immigrants from state services.

[laundry]

-The author of the letter is likely a male, due to the pronoun, "he" was not redacted.

-I am beginning to wonder if the person who 'found' the letter and the person who 'disclosed' the letter to the Oprah show, are two different people. On page 32 of the police report, it states that: "the person that disclosed this information...." and that they "allegedly" have the letter. The person that disclosed the information does not know the "first names" and I am guessing that the redacted might be 'duggar family' first names.

-paragraph 4, page 32, I believe the small, redacted word may well be "Holt" family.

-also paragraph 4, page 32, I am of the belief that the redacted name of the person who sent the email may well be a family member of the Duggars, the redacted parts might be the name of the person, followed by a relationship.

This would mean that the person who found the letter, gave it to a Duggar family member, possibly to get clarity and conformation, before releasing the information...the person who wrote the email to the Oprah show, was not happy with the Duggars and came across at 'taking digs' at them, which could be a family member who is not happy....just my speculations.

*edited to add, they should not be happy with what the Duggars did, I was simply trying to say the 'tone' of the email sent to the Oprah show sounded like someone who already was not happy with the Duggars and was further angered by what they read in the letter......

If that was the case then it would mean that a Duggar is the person who is now in contact with a lawyer and trying to sell the letter to the media, (assuming they talk about the original letter and not a copy.) Which isn't likely. I mean, if a Duggar got the letter I would think they would take good care of it so no one else would find it.

[halcionne]

Jim Holt had a bit of a feud with Mike Huckabee, and I've wondered if the Duggars' enthusiastic support of Huckabee made things a bit tense between the families.

Holt's wikipedia page has a bit about it here.

I will say, the "Jesus juice" incident is probably the only time I've liked Huckabee, so I have Holt to blame for that. :lol: I don't understand how people like Holt can think it's the Christian thing to do to ban illegal immigrants from state services.

The link to the source at wikipedia doesn't work, but I found this article: http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/02 ... -huckabee2

Is Holt still in politics? I feel like these two (three, if you include the Duggars) families' ties to IBLP bind them tightly enough that they might be able to get past any political hair-splitting.

[Flyinthesoup]

If that was the case then it would mean that a Duggar is the person who is now in contact with a lawyer and trying to sell the letter to the media, (assuming they talk about the original letter and not a copy.) Which isn't likely. I mean, if a Duggar got the letter I would think they would take good care of it so no one else would find it.

When I said "Duggar Family", I was meaning the extended family, either JB's side or Michell's side. I have no clue, but I guess the police have had to look at the letter, right? So I am guessing they must have kept it and the person who 'found it' either has a copy of it and/or gave a copy to the original writer of the letter. If Holt wrote that letter, I can't imagine he would be the one trying to sell the letter/or copy of it.

[Snarkle Motion]

When I said "Duggar Family", I was meaning the extended family, either JB's side or Michell's side. I have no clue, but I guess the police have had to look at the letter, right? So I am guessing they must have kept it and the person who 'found it' either has a copy of it and/or gave a copy to the original writer of the letter. If Holt wrote that letter, I can't imagine he would be the one trying to sell the letter/or copy of it.

The whole thing is weird to me. The timing of finding the letter - or at least going to the police - happened AFTER the Oprah revelation?

I still am suspicious of this letter story. I wonder if someone reported them to Oprah and they knew DHS was opening an investigation. So to head this off - since DHS would not intervene if there was an active police investigation - they used the "letter" as a way to go to police and say they had documented evidence of what happened but that it was clearly in the past.

Holt may have gone along as a "witness" because he had a family member involved.

[laundry]

When I said "Duggar Family", I was meaning the extended family, either JB's side or Michell's side. I have no clue, but I guess the police have had to look at the letter, right? So I am guessing they must have kept it and the person who 'found it' either has a copy of it and/or gave a copy to the original writer of the letter. If Holt wrote that letter, I can't imagine he would be the one trying to sell the letter/or copy of it.

For some reason my impression was the police saw the letter without keeping it. But I think your're right, if the police have actually seen the letter I also guess they must have kept it. However, when reading the police report again I interpret it as the police never actually saw and read the letter themselves, they just found out who had written it. Because it says on page 32 that Inv. Taylor had found out who had written the letter after talking to (redacted.) And then it says: "Inv. Taylor stated that after the letter was written it was placed inside of a book. The book was later loaned to (redacted) from ether Elm Springs or Cave Springs. The person that disclosed this information did not know the (redacted) first names. They allegedly have the letter."

I'm also wondering if the original letterfinder is the one who is trying to sell the letter to the media (and how many copies are there.)

[mamallama]

It could have been a photo copy sent to Oprah and shown to the police.

Personally I think Holt went as a witness to get him off the hook because he knew he was a mandated reporter and had not yet reported it.

[ShepherdontheRock]

It could have been a photo copy sent to Oprah and shown to the police.

Personally I think Holt went as a witness to get him off the hook because he knew he was a mandated reporter and had not yet reported it.

Should belated reporting have gotten him off the hook though? Legally? (Morally, obviously not)

[Flyinthesoup]

I posted this in the other thread on "Josh is getting SUED"......but wanted to put it here, too, in the event it gets lost there.

FOUND IT!!!! :cracking-up: That took much longer than I thought it would.

OK, what I referenced earlier regarding #of victims and outside the home. It was "concernedmom" that made the comments. You can find the the full quote here: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=713&hilit=josh+molest#p13658

Below is part of the quote, it states that it's "concernedmom's" friend's daughter that was the victim that was sleeping while Josh molested her. She is not the Holt daughter!!!

The "sin in the camp" was while " on the campaign trail" which is why I was thinking the other 'molestation' must have taken place while they were traveling, meaning Josh with Mr. Holt and whomever else was there. Again, that may not have been Mr. Holt's daughter, but someone else. Josh was 16 at this time!

If Josh was 'betrothed' to Mr. Holt's daughter at this time, it's not out of the possibility that Josh and Miss Holt may have been playing a little hanky panky, but then again, not......but this might be why the sister Holt was told 'not to say anything' about what happened, as reported in an earlier magazine quote.

Anyway, if 'concernedmom' is to believed, I think it's her friend's daughter that is the 5th victim.

[imjustasteph]

Just with regard to using length of redacted areas to guess what should have been in them, I would note that the person who typed it up didn't do a great job in some regards, so a place that looks like it should say 'Josh Duggar' but is way too long might say something like 'Joshua Joshua Duggar' -- the writer of the report may have messed up and retyped a word, or even a phrase. Or left out a word. So short redactions could be slightly-longer phrases and vice-versa.