AR Politician Jim Holt - Family involvement

[jinseng]

I took it upon myself to do some investigating about Jim Holt, and his involvement in this whole fiasco and found some stuff... I think with some more investigation could prove to be quite interesting...

 

As we know, the Duggar's and Holts attended the same home-church. I found out the name of it was 'Bible Grace Fellowship' and that both Jim Bob and Jim Holt were church elders. (Might it be worth googling a bit more about this church?)

 

We also know that Josh was betrothed twice to a Holt daughter (not sure which one?) but this was later broken (twice?) after Holt found out about Josh's issues with porn and the molestations and that Josh was made to give a public confession to the church about his accessing pornography.

 

We know that in the police report, JB said that one of the church elders he confided in advised him not to put Josh into a program for juvenile sex offenders, arguing that it will lead him to interact with the wrong crowd and might encourage further offending behaviour. That church elder was Jim Holt. According to this website, ( www.ourcampaigns.com/pages/CandidateDet ... ateID=6909 ) It turns out Holt worked as a youth counsellor and chaplain at Piney Ridge Center, a facility for juvenile sex offenders.

 

Check out their website here: http://www.pineyridge.net/ It is located right nearby the Duggars, in Fayetteville, AR...

 

As someone who works in mental health, I must say this facility looks FAR more reputable and evidence-based than Gothard's Little Rock training centre...

 

Digging around a bit more about Jim Holt is pretty easy, as he is a successful conservative politician.

 

Although the Holt's still seems conservative, his daughters appear to be pretty fundie light now. I am not sure which daughter Josh was bethrothed to, but you can watch the older daughter's youtube channel and see their latest song, ironically titled and complete with downbeat, 'Dancing with skeletons' :

It's nice to see that the Duggar's didn't get a hold of these girls, and they have a bit of spunk and individual personality...

 

It's interesting that the Holts had so much to do with this whole situation, and yet they seem to have kept their distance from them since.

[apple1]

...We know that in the police report, JB said that one of the church elders he confided in advised him not to put Josh into a program for juvenile sex offenders, arguing that it will lead him to interact with the wrong crowd and might encourage further offending behaviour. That church elder was Jim Holt. According to this website, ( http://www.ourcampaigns.com/pages/Candi ... ateID=6909 ) It turns out Holt worked as a youth counsellor and chaplain at Piney Ridge Center, a facility for juvenile sex offenders.

Check out their website here: http://www.pineyridge.net/ It is located right nearby the Duggars, in Fayetteville, AR...

As someone who works in mental health, I must say this facility looks FAR more reputable and evidence-based than Gothard's Little Rock training centre...

.

We actually do not REALLY know whether the bolded is true. What we know is that JB said it in the police report. It is at least possible that this is just one more item in which JB is playing fast and loose with the truth. Kind of using Holt as the excuse for what was likely decided in advance anyway, and that was to send Josh to the Gothard "program".

I have no inside knowledge, just my opinion.

[Pandie5]

They are all K's! But they wear pants. I'm confused..Is the swaying back and forth considered dancing?

Maybe Pa Holt realized how crazy it was after the betrothal and the life he almost sentenced his daughter to. He hasn't been involved in political office for awhile. Maybe the Josh issue made him realize there was somthing messed up in both those worlds. He blamed his failure on OTHER PEOPLE's sin and witch hunts...One can only hope he realized it wasn't a healthy life for his family.

[Pandie5]

Scrath my last comments about politics. Seems he isn't in politics because he can't get elected.

[Swamptribe]

The problem with putting Josh in a secular treatment program is that it would have undermined their religious teachings on gender roles. Real therapy would undermine so many of the rigid religious sex roles that their children have had drilled into them.

[DuggarWatch]

Josh was engaged to Jim Holt's daughter, Kaeleigh Holt-Tull, when he was 14 years old. This was during 2002 – 2003, the exact time Josh was sexually abusing his sisters and another girl. Who in their right mind would allow a 14-year-old to get engaged?

Maybe that was the first parental attempt to "cure" the criminally deviant Josh.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... en&ct=clnk

[SassyPants]

Were/are the Holts Gothardites?

[16strong]

*If* it is true that Josh was betrothed previously, and to this girl, she is waaaayyy out of his league. Also have to say there is no contest between her current husband and Smuggar. She did better. A lot better.

[martian]

I took it upon myself to do some investigating about Jim Holt, and his involvement in this whole fiasco and found some stuff... I think with some more investigation could prove to be quite interesting...

As we know, the Duggar's and Holts attended the same home-church. I found out the name of it was 'Bible Grace Fellowship' and that both Jim Bob and Jim Holt were church elders. (Might it be worth googling a bit more about this church?)

We also know that Josh was betrothed twice to a Holt daughter (not sure which one?) but this was later broken (twice?) after Holt found out about Josh's issues with porn and the molestations and that Josh was made to give a public confession to the church about his accessing pornography.

We know that in the police report, JB said that one of the church elders he confided in advised him not to put Josh into a program for juvenile sex offenders, arguing that it will lead him to interact with the wrong crowd and might encourage further offending behaviour. That church elder was Jim Holt. According to this website, ( http://www.ourcampaigns.com/pages/Candi ... ateID=6909 ) It turns out Holt worked as a youth counsellor and chaplain at Piney Ridge Center, a facility for juvenile sex offenders.

Check out their website here: http://www.pineyridge.net/ It is located right nearby the Duggars, in Fayetteville, AR...

As someone who works in mental health, I must say this facility looks FAR more reputable and evidence-based than Gothard's Little Rock training centre...

Digging around a bit more about Jim Holt is pretty easy, as he is a successful conservative politician.

Although the Holt's still seems conservative, his daughters appear to be pretty fundie light now. I am not sure which daughter Josh was bethrothed to, but you can watch the older daughter's youtube channel and see their latest song, ironically titled and complete with downbeat, 'Dancing with skeletons' :

It's nice to see that the Duggar's didn't get a hold of these girls, and they have a bit of spunk and individual personality...

It's interesting that the Holts had so much to do with this whole situation, and yet they seem to have kept their distance from them since.

Hey, thanks, jinseng! I've been meaning to post a thread to help centralize the info about Josh's early betrothals but hadn't gotten back to it. Very interesting find about Holt working as a counsellor and chaplain to juvenile sex offenders. Also, horrifying to see a Gothardite embedded in such a sensitive position. You have to wonder what crap ideas he was spreading to the boys and young men there.

I've assumed since "sin in the camp" turned out to be for real that Josh's insanely young betrothals were a wrongheaded attempt to fix the problem. Better to marry than burn, right? And having children betrothed at fourteen is really the kind of thing Jim Bob would never want to get out now because I bet a lot of the people minimizing Josh's issues because of his youth would have a hard time with the idea that he was still old enough to be engaged. Or is betrothal like pre-engaged? They all make their own rules up, so no way to know if one of them doesn't come out and explain it.

[SassyPants]

Jim Holt would be a very interesting interview, as he knew the adolescent JB ; went to the same HS. Plus, it seems the Duggars and Holts were good family friends during this time period. I'm sure these folks have a wealth of knowledge. Wonder why they are no longer friends?

[Toothfairy]

Wtf. What parent allows their uneducated unemployed can't do shit for themselves 14yo to get married. . That's not the solution.

[SassyPants]

Wtf. What parent allows their uneducated unemployed can't do shit for themselves 14yo to get married. . That's not the solution.

DYSFUNCTION.

[martian]

*If* it is true that Josh was betrothed previously, and to this girl, she is waaaayyy out of his league. Also have to say there is no contest between her current husband and Smuggar. She did better. A lot better.

The info - betrothal, not naming the girl - was included in the 2005 "concernedmom" message board post that also discussed Josh molesting the non-Duggar victim. There's an FJ thread that includes that post called "Josh Courting Before Anna?", but I am having linking fail and can't get it for you. 2005 puts that message board comment even before Oprah's folks called the authorities and started the investigation ball rolling.

[Pandie5]

Josh was engaged to Jim Holt's daughter, Kaeleigh Holt-Tull, when he was 14 years old. This was during 2002 – 2003, the exact time Josh was sexually abusing his sisters and another girl. Who in their right mind would allow a 14-year-old to get engaged?

Maybe that was the first parental attempt to "cure" the criminally deviant Josh.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... en&ct=clnk

If it is true, a betrothal could have been what started it. #1. A 14 year old mentally can't understand the concept of married or caring for a family. How much pressure is THAT when you have 6 siblings already and living in the small house they had. #2. You're telling a kid he has absolutely no control over his life. He may have been trying to take control in the only way he thought he could. That's what these abuses are about with repeat offenders, control, not sex.

Or if he does have as big an ego as he acts sometimes, this would only have made it worse. He may have gotten very pompous with females, and overly curious about how things worked under the hood, knowing he was going to get the keys to a Ferrari, without having done anything to earn it. (Cuz let's face it, she is out of his league.) He had to have felt like royalty having an arranged political marriage... It all smacks of Warren Jeffs. (Shutter)

[halcionne]

This was discussed a bit in the Josh part 7 thread. I think Jim Holt is the church elder who was a chaplain at Piney Ridge. I think he and JB were besties since high school; they had originally planned to sell encyclopedias in Kansas for their careers or some shit (mentioned on original 14 kids special). I also think Holt is the witness who went along on the visit to Hutchens's stern talking to. And I think the families are still friends, but not as close as they used to be.

I have the Holts in my spreadsheet. All the girls are unique K names and all the boys have S names. The youngest is 3 and mom is late 40s, I believe.

[Fascinated]

This was discussed a bit in the Josh part 7 thread. I think Jim Holt is the church elder who was a chaplain at Piney Ridge. I think he and JB were besties since high school; they had originally planned to sell encyclopedias in Kansas for their careers or some shit (mentioned on original 14 kids special). I also think Holt is the witness who went along on the visit to Hutchens's stern talking to. And I think the families are still friends, but not as close as they used to be.

I have the Holts in my spreadsheet. All the girls are unique K names and all the boys have S names. The youngest is 3 and mom is late 40s, I believe.

How large is your spreadsheet, halcionne? Is it something you can share? It would be fascinating to read everything you've compiled. I can't imagine the work involved in keeping it updated!

[apandaaries]

How large is your spreadsheet, halcionne? Is it something you can share? It would be fascinating to read everything you've compiled. I can't imagine the work involved in keeping it updated!

That caught my eye, too. A spreadsheet?! That's impressive. :worship:

[Eternalbluepearl]

Wtf. What parent allows their uneducated unemployed can't do shit for themselves 14yo to get married. . That's not the solution.

Well...it was similar when he married Anna at what? 20? He was employed at the car lot that JimBob owned that quickly declined into Josh occasionally showing up, flying toy helicopters and going home. It was called Duggar Automotive and had Josh and Anna's picture on the sign so that was all ok behavior.

[Evenkeel]

I feel like I'm going to burst if I don't say something about what I noticed while taking a closer look at the police reports last night. I was curious as to what the differences in the reports from the two counties were when they were apparently from the same interviews. I noticed that two of the "other people" were listed as coming from Rogers. I found an old blog post saying that the Holts lived in Rogers in 2005 during his campaign. I would take that to mean that he consulted with the Holts at some point during the whole debacle, and they may have been the "family friends" he talked to after Smuggar's third "tearful admission." I noticed other things, too, but I can't go there because it ventures into the territory of speculating on the identity of the fifth victim.

[halcionne]

How large is your spreadsheet, halcionne? Is it something you can share? It would be fascinating to read everything you've compiled. I can't imagine the work involved in keeping it updated!

It's almost 1300 lines, but that includes miscarriages, "future fetuses," and a few dead people. My spreadsheet knowledge is self-taught so it's not very sophisticated, but I'm working on something I can upload. Maybe you guys can help me fix the formula that calculates how many weeks along a fetus is; for the life of me, I can't get it to work right.

ETA link to my spreadsheet: http://www.mediafire.com/download/e9yf1 ... Jinger.rar

[Snarkle Motion]

This was discussed a bit in the Josh part 7 thread. I think Jim Holt is the church elder who was a chaplain at Piney Ridge. I think he and JB were besties since high school; they had originally planned to sell encyclopedias in Kansas for their careers or some shit (mentioned on original 14 kids special). I also think Holt is the witness who went along on the visit to Hutchens's stern talking to. And I think the families are still friends, but not as close as they used to be.

I have the Holts in my spreadsheet. All the girls are unique K names and all the boys have S names. The youngest is 3 and mom is late 40s, I believe.

I also suspect that Holt was the witness. Although they make it seem like he was there to support Josh but I suspect he was the one driving the report to the police.

[Evenkeel]

It's almost 1300 lines, but that includes miscarriages, "future fetuses," and a few dead people. My spreadsheet knowledge is self-taught so it's not very sophisticated, but I'm working on something I can upload. Maybe you guys can help me fix the formula that calculates how many weeks along a fetus is; for the life of me, I can't get it to work right.

Have you used the DATEDIF function? I can try to help. I've taken advanced classes on Excel.

[Snarkle Motion]

Okay, now I can't find the info but I though that I read before that Jim Holt worked as a counselor for sexual offenders at piney ridge, not just a chaplain. I'm pretty sure it was stated on his webpage but is now no longer there? The first poster in this thread mentions it as well.

It just blows my mind that this family is closely associated with so many child sex offenders - jim holt "counseled" them (with what looks like no specialized training for this), the child porn cop, gothard's molestation of teenage girls, etc. WTF! Is it possible that in his work at piney ridge, potentially working with victims or with perpetrators, that the Duggars/Holts knew which cop to go to who would not report them?

[halcionne]

Have you used the DATEDIF function? I can try to help. I've taken advanced classes on Excel.

I'll mess around with that. I'm using Open Office, which is supposedly just like Excel, except that it isn't. :evil-eye:

[Snarkle Motion]

Okay, now I can't find the info but I though that I read before that Jim Holt worked as a counselor for sexual offenders at piney ridge, not just a chaplain. I'm pretty sure it was stated on his webpage but is now no longer there? The first poster in this thread mentions it as well.

It just blows my mind that this family is closely associated with so many child sex offenders - jim holt "counseled" them (with what looks like no specialized training for this), the child porn cop, gothard's molestation of teenage girls, etc. WTF! Is it possible that in his work at piney ridge, potentially working with victims or with perpetrators, that the Duggars/Holts knew which cop to go to who would not report them?

It is still on his webpage linked to in the first thread. "Jim became a youth counselor and chaplain at Piney Ridge Center (for juvenile sex offenders)."