AR Politician Jim Holt - Family involvement

[Pandie5]

I think Savinggrace posted a document from the ATI groups on how counselors should handle questions about credentials and licensing, accreditation, etc, since none of the counselors are qualified...They are basically told to never say their aren't licensed and to redirect the conversation to the counselors experience within the organization and how the method is godly. Which is basically how the Fox interview went down. JB would never SAY it wasn't licensed therapist. Just that it was a Christan method. I'm sure he'd cut his tongue out before he'd name the actual counselor.

It is infuriating that these groups prey on those with less intelligence with lies of ommission and redirection. And probably a promise of not reporting anything to the authorities.

I wonder if the Duggars and Gothards even talk now.

[halcionne]

I think Savinggrace posted a document from the ATI groups on how counselors should handle questions about credentials and licensing, accreditation, etc, since none of the counselors are qualified...They are basically told to never say their aren't licensed and to redirect the conversation to the counselors experience within the organization and how the method is godly. Which is basically how the Fox interview went down. JB would never SAY it wasn't licensed therapist. Just that it was a Christan method. I'm sure he'd cut his tongue out before he'd name the actual counselor.

I wonder if the Duggars and Gothards even talk now.

If you mean do the Duggars and Holts still talk, I'm willing to bet the answer is yes. They are in the same circles on FB and the families are remarkably close in age, beliefs, lifestyle, etc.

[SassyPants]

When Josh writes that tell all, I might just have to read it.

I'll speculate in my mind about what happened to him along the journey.

[Flyinthesoup]

I also suspect that Holt was the witness. Although they make it seem like he was there to support Josh but I suspect he was the one driving the report to the police.

To the bolded, I also believe Holt was for Josh going to Piney Ridge, but the other elders agreed with the other option, thus why (I believe) Holt is the author of the letter. On page 15 of the police report, the person that wrote the letter, was said to have known of the actions Josh did, and unless that redacted mark states, "the girls", which makes no sense, I believe it's the actions to the 5th victim. I suspect Mr. Holt put that letter in the book, and when it was loaned out, it was loaned out to a 61 year old woman OR the husband of a 61 year old woman, who then phoned the hotline. I wouldn't be surprised if the 61 year old woman is related to Mr. Holt, but again, that's just my speculation. "Alice" comes across as someone who has a great deal of personal information on the Duggars, including financial. This is why I believe Jim Bob did not want to tell the identity of the author or receiver of the letter.

Further speculation from me, I believe the elders knew more of what Josh did, vs. the people in the church that Josh stood up to confess his sins to. I believe the leek of Josh's actions came via the elders....the other people in church most likely only knew of the porno stuff. All speculation on my part, but makes sense to me.

[0KidsAndHappy]

I just checked out the Holt's Instagram and I seriously can't with these people... I don't know why I allow myself to venture into such places.

http://websta.me/p/928382547715070842_25823749

Finally moving the #prayerchapel out to the "new house". Those signs on the windows are #oldcampaign signs from Jim's campaigns. #prolife #protectmarriage #stopgayadoption #JimHoltforUSSenate #funtimes

:angry-banghead:

[Pandie5]

If you mean do the Duggars and Holts still talk, I'm willing to bet the answer is yes. They are in the same circles on FB and the families are remarkably close in age, beliefs, lifestyle, etc.

Even after Duggar Sin caused Holt to lose an election?

[CorruptionInc.]

Well...it was similar when he married Anna at what? 20? He was employed at the car lot that JimBob owned that quickly declined into Josh occasionally showing up, flying toy helicopters and going home. It was called Duggar Automotive and had Josh and Anna's picture on the sign so that was all ok behavior.

According to Google Maps yesterday (was bored) Duggar Automotive is still running.

So JB was / is into SEO at least.

[martian]

It is still on his webpage linked to in the first thread. "Jim became a youth counselor and chaplain at Piney Ridge Center (for juvenile sex offenders)."

So, Holt is a mandated reporter then, isn't he? On two counts, he's both a chaplain and a counselor. I've seen debates here on Free Jinger about whether that means one has a duty to report abuse learned of outside of official capacity, so I don't know where the law would fall on this, but I'll bet neither Holt nor Jim Bob want to try their luck. The questions might get reeeaally uncomfortable for a man with political ambitions.

Sheesh, imagine a guy who believes in hoodoo voodoo like "sin in the camp" causing him to lose an election being in the position of guiding and counseling vulnerable, youthful offenders. What are the odds they got any kind of real treatment before being sent back out into the world?

[SassyPants]

So, Holt is a mandated reporter then, isn't he? On two counts, he's both a chaplain and a counselor. I've seen debates here on Free Jinger about whether that means one has a duty to report abuse learned of outside of official capacity, so I don't know where the law would fall on this, but I'll bet neither Holt nor Jim Bob want to try their luck. The questions might get reeeaally uncomfortable for a man with political ambitions.

Sheesh, imagine a guy who believes in hoodoo voodoo like "sin in the camp" causing him to lose an election being in the position of guiding and counseling vulnerable, youthful offenders. What are the odds they got any kind of real treatment before being sent back out into the world?

Slim to none.

[CorruptionInc.]

I just checked out the Holt's Instagram and I seriously can't with these people... I don't know why I allow myself to venture into such places.

http://websta.me/p/928382547715070842_25823749

Finally moving the #prayerchapel out to the "new house". Those signs on the windows are #oldcampaign signs from Jim's campaigns. #prolife #protectmarriage #stopgayadoption #JimHoltforUSSenate #funtimes

:angry-banghead:

More than likely those gay parents would make 100% better parents then you and your fundie friends Holt. Think before you speak / tweet / instagram... oh wait... :cray-cray:

Edit to remove image, if you got to this post, you've seen it. :)

[halcionne]

Even after Duggar Sin caused Holt to lose an election?

It's just my opinion, but yeah. Only a superstitious dumbass would really believe a sin in the camp cost his election, right? Oh wait...

Anyway, that was a long time ago and they really do have similar agendas, so it's easy for me to believe they've buried the hatchet. All speculative, of course. Come to think of it, isn't a lot of the falling out based on speculation?

[Rachel333]

I was a member of a private homeschool e-mail group for people in the area and the Holts were active posters and mentioned doing things with the Duggars a few times. I haven't been on there in a while (I should see if it's still going), but this was well after the supposed fall-out.

[Jessica]

Just want to make a correction: The Duggars and Holts are still friends. Check the Holts' Instagram page for pictures of Bobye and Michelle out and about together. Their username is jnbholtfamily

https://instagram.com/p/t1ivi6uphS/

https://instagram.com/p/rLFjdQupny/

https://instagram.com/p/ow2zb2upjw/

https://instagram.com/p/ow2afMupjR/

[Toaster]

Huh. I thought "Bobye" was another one of those nicknames, but no, that's really her name. How does one pronounce that? I'm hearing "Boe-bye" in my head.

[Evenkeel]

JimBoob says that the whole thing with Smuggar wasn't a secret in the community. JHolt said it was "sin in the camp" that cost him the election. The election was in November 2006 and Smuggar got back from Little Rock in the summer of 2006. They attended the same church, and Holt was an elder that would have heard Smuggar's confession to the church (if that happened) whether or not the congregation knew if/that Holt had been consulted about sending Smuggar away before then. With the speculated broken betrothal to a Holt girl and Holt's apparent standing behind JimBoob through all of this, why in the heck wouldn't the whole Smuggar "sin in the camp" have cost him the election? Other members of the church probably would have voted for him because they have similar beliefs but the community presumably didn't have the same beliefs about forgiveness and association with "sinners." I think I'll dig through some blogs and see what floats up about that election.

[Sundaymorning]

JimBoob says that the whole thing with Smuggar wasn't a secret in the community. JHolt said it was "sin in the camp" that cost him the election. The election was in November 2006 and Smuggar got back from Little Rock in the summer of 2006. They attended the same church, and Holt was an elder that would have heard Smuggar's confession to the church (if that happened) whether or not the congregation knew if/that Holt had been consulted about sending Smuggar away before then. With the speculated broken betrothal to a Holt girl and Holt's apparent standing behind JimBoob through all of this, why in the heck wouldn't the whole Smuggar "sin in the camp" have cost him the election? Other members of the church probably would have voted for him because they have similar beliefs but the community presumably didn't have the same beliefs about forgiveness and association with "sinners." I think I'll dig through some blogs and see what floats up about that election.

I'm usually pretty sceptical, but I think you could be on to something. Before this whole scandal, I regarded this "sin in the camp" issue as some superstition of Holt or Boob, who wanted to blaim some harmless, irrelevant event (like a teenager consensually kissing another one) for losing a campaign. As in: there was sin in the camp and becaue of that, God punished all of us and thereby we lost.

But, if really enough people knew about Josh's chrimes and the poor parental reaction, it could have actually been a reason why they didn't vote for him anymore. So this statement "defeat because of sin in the camp" could be been meant much more literally than I ever thought before.

[Pandie5]

JimBoob says that the whole thing with Smuggar wasn't a secret in the community. JHolt said it was "sin in the camp" that cost him the election. The election was in November 2006 and Smuggar got back from Little Rock in the summer of 2006. They attended the same church, and Holt was an elder that would have heard Smuggar's confession to the church (if that happened) whether or not the congregation knew if/that Holt had been consulted about sending Smuggar away before then. With the speculated broken betrothal to a Holt girl and Holt's apparent standing behind JimBoob through all of this, why in the heck wouldn't the whole Smuggar "sin in the camp" have cost him the election? Other members of the church probably would have voted for him because they have similar beliefs but the community presumably didn't have the same beliefs about forgiveness and association with "sinners." I think I'll dig through some blogs and see what floats up about that election.

I thought the stuff with the church happened in 2002 ans 2003. By the 2006 interview, it was water under the bridge as far as the church was concerned. It was a 2002 election that failed due to "sin. " I can see that election being JBoob's campaign or Holt's. Since they both helped each other's campaigns.

I've been reading about "confession" in Southern Baptists. It doesn't exist. The only reason Josh would have HAD to confess would an open "confession" that he was a sinner and saved by Christ, in order to become a member of the church. It is just a declaration of faith, not admitted to a specific sin. Who knows what their specific church rules are though. They may have to confess major things, but to a group? It seems unethical.

I saw someone say it was BEFORE he was a Christian. Blah, blah. So I can believe JB made him confess to being saved to become a member. After that point, further sin is worse because it looks like your "confession" of being saved was not sincere. Maybe that is when a public confession of specific sins is needed? Rabbit hole...The more I read about this loose connection called "Baptist", the more scared I get. I had always been confused as a kid how so many churches just split off and start new. It's no wonder crazy meglomaniacs like Gothard gain followers. People want theirbown rules to justify things. They want their own power. Thank goodness we have laws. Cuz I don't see these guys policing themselves effectively. And for decades they campaign to get the law to adopt their free-for-all rules.

[halcionne]

Huh. I thought "Bobye" was another one of those nicknames, but no, that's really her name. How does one pronounce that? I'm hearing "Boe-bye" in my head.

I've been pronouncing it like Bobby.

Terrible, shallow comment alert: Bobye brings out the orange in Michelle's tan.

[Sister Mozz]

*If* it is true that Josh was betrothed previously, and to this girl, she is waaaayyy out of his league. Also have to say there is no contest between her current husband and Smuggar. She did better. A lot better.

So true! Several years ago, before he married Kaeleigh, I met her now-husband. He's a genuinely nice and respectful guy.

[LilahBelle]

The problem with putting Josh in a secular treatment program is that it would have undermined their religious teachings on gender roles. Real therapy would undermine so many of the rigid religious sex roles that their children have had drilled into them.

You beat me to it. It also might have made Josh realize all the dysfunction in his family.

[Pandie5]

Whoa. Holt's have a Christmas tree and let girls wear pants!

[Cleopatra7]

I thought the stuff with the church happened in 2002 ans 2003. By the 2006 interview, it was water under the bridge as far as the church was concerned. It was a 2002 election that failed due to "sin. " I can see that election being JBoob's campaign or Holt's. Since they both helped each other's campaigns.

I've been reading about "confession" in Southern Baptists. It doesn't exist. The only reason Josh would have HAD to confess would an open "confession" that he was a sinner and saved by Christ, in order to become a member of the church. It is just a declaration of faith, not admitted to a specific sin. Who knows what their specific church rules are though. They may have to confess major things, but to a group? It seems unethical.

I saw someone say it was BEFORE he was a Christian. Blah, blah. So I can believe JB made him confess to being saved to become a member. After that point, further sin is worse because it looks like your "confession" of being saved was not sincere. Maybe that is when a public confession of specific sins is needed? Rabbit hole...The more I read about this loose connection called "Baptist", the more scared I get. I had always been confused as a kid how so many churches just split off and start new. It's no wonder crazy meglomaniacs like Gothard gain followers. People want theirbown rules to justify things. They want their own power. Thank goodness we have laws. Cuz I don't see these guys policing themselves effectively. And for decades they campaign to get the law to adopt their free-for-all rules.

Public confession isn't a thing in mainstream Southern Baptist churches, but it does seem to be more common in these small, isolationist house churches (didn't Doug Philips is a Tool have to confess in front of his church after his abuse was discovered?). From what I can gather, Gothard's pronouncement that parents have to "have their children's hearts" is code for forcing children to confess to their parents. It's just another way to control them, because it denies children any kind of private life away from their parents and sbilings. I think it could be related to the "shepherding movement" that was in vogue 30+ years ago and collapsed because it became a hotbed of abuse. Gothardites don't seem to have gotten the memo.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

If you mean do the Duggars and Holts still talk, I'm willing to bet the answer is yes. They are in the same circles on FB and the families are remarkably close in age, beliefs, lifestyle, etc.

There are two pictures of Michelle with Bobye on the Holt family's instagram, there's also a picture of Bobye with Jordyn and Josie. Also, despite claiming to have known Michelle longer than she's known her husband, Bobye doesn't know how to spell Jordyn's name. Josiah's also featured on their instagram with the caption that he hacked it. All of those pictures are within the last year.

[halcionne]

There are two pictures of Michelle with Bobye on the Holt family's instagram, there's also a picture of Bobye with Jordyn and Josie. Also, despite claiming to have known Michelle longer than she's known her husband, Bobye doesn't know how to spell Jordyn's name. Josiah's also featured on their instagram with the caption that he hacked it. All of those pictures are within the last year.

Some of those pics were linked here, after I posted. :) I can't tell if you're suggesting they're Duggar hangers-on, or that they mended fences in the last year. She did seem to respond, um, positively to the attention her pics with Michelle got.

[Rajah061014]

I thought the stuff with the church happened in 2002 ans 2003. By the 2006 interview, it was water under the bridge as far as the church was concerned. It was a 2002 election that failed due to "sin. " I can see that election being JBoob's campaign or Holt's. Since they both helped each other's campaigns.

I've been reading about "confession" in Southern Baptists. It doesn't exist. The only reason Josh would have HAD to confess would an open "confession" that he was a sinner and saved by Christ, in order to become a member of the church. It is just a declaration of faith, not admitted to a specific sin. Who knows what their specific church rules are though. They may have to confess major things, but to a group? It seems unethical.

I saw someone say it was BEFORE he was a Christian. Blah, blah. So I can believe JB made him confess to being saved to become a member. After that point, further sin is worse because it looks like your "confession" of being saved was not sincere. Maybe that is when a public confession of specific sins is needed? Rabbit hole...The more I read about this loose connection called "Baptist", the more scared I get. I had always been confused as a kid how so many churches just split off and start new. It's no wonder crazy meglomaniacs like Gothard gain followers. People want theirbown rules to justify things. They want their own power. Thank goodness we have laws. Cuz I don't see these guys policing themselves effectively. And for decades they campaign to get the law to adopt their free-for-all rules.

I was raised Southern Baptist (I started leaning away from it at a pretty young age and haven't been a member at a SBC church in over a decade). Confession is definitely taught, it's just different than in most denominations. Unlike Catholics or most other Protestants, Baptists (there are different flavors, of which SBC is just one) believe in direct communication with God, including confession. There is no intermediary like a priest or minister. We are taught to confess our sins whenever we pray. Confessing in public is definitely a niche thing, not necessarily part of SBC teachings.

If you think about it, the public confessing in church is similar to what the Duggars teach at home. They expect their kids to confess everything to them and even have family meetings about it. So the church confessions are the same thing to them, just on a larger scale. It's all a part of how the leaders (whether the family leaders or church leaders) maintain control over their flock.