Josh Duggar alleged sexual abuse - new developments

[weezie]

Just joined the site, and have been reading this thread. So many things wrong with these people. I feel so sorry for the women and girls. Even Michelle, just a little. Here's why- at some point as a teen, she had to have had some self doubt and low self esteem. Along comes this guy who promises her love, if she just follows thus righteous path with him. The cycle begins.

My sympathy for her ends, however, the second she does not recognize that she is perpetuating the abuse.

The church elders have a legal responsibility to report abuse, do they not? Will those involved in the meetings where Josh asked for forgiveness ever be held accountable?

it is all just sick. One of the statements that has always make my skin crawl was when Josh offered to help Jessa and Ben with their wedding invitations, making a comment about getting the Duggar creative juices flowing. *shudders*

Does anyone else recall how, in the early years, Josh was all about video taping things? That also makes me a little uneasy.

My two cents. Thanks for the forum to share!

[Buzzard]

I'm really wondering if Ben released the info. His comment about the no kiss was "we had good intentions" and boob was so quick to point out that his logic was flawed. Jessa is pregnant, I'm not sure if they could know that its a girl this early, but if they do... and it is... I could see him throwing this out there in an attempt to keep Josh far, far away.

[umbrellaella]

Someone already mentioned the possibility that either Derick or Ben contacted the media to reignite the story

I was wondering if someone close to them tipped off InTouch as well. But (personally) I just can't see Ben or Derick doing it. To begin with, they have too much to lose financially if the show was canceled. I couldn't picture Derick doing it so soon after Isreal's birth and knowingly putting Jill in a position with the spotlight on her in this way. Ben just seems too dumb to go to these lengths, and him and Jessa seem to be together ALL the time, so he would have had to be doing some sneaky stuff.

What about Amy? She's been talking to the tabloids lately and has made some passive aggressive comments about them. ALSO, the main Duggar "scandal" of the week that made headlines was Amy not paying her producer. This story would surely overshadow her's, and maybe she slipped InTouch the info to get the heat off her. InTouch, acting on the tip obtained the police report under The Freedom of Information act, and the rest is history.

[lascuba]

Where is the "she"? I looked over that one, and saw part of "had trained her," but "her" referred to the dog, Jazmine. I noticed that "her" the first time I read it, but then realized it was in reference to the dog. It reads like JD to me, with the car repair and such. Oh! Reviewed again and found one "she," but again referring to the dog.

It's on page 28.

" [.....] said that [...] did not want to tell [.......] said she needed to ask [...] father. "

[Buzzard]

I just realized that none of these kids were ever allowed a private conversation before marriage. At all. Always with a chaperone even their texts and phone calls. I doubt any spouses, including Anna knew about this.

Also wondering, is this where the "accountability partners" came into play? If Josh could never be alone, he couldn't do it again.

[apandaaries]

It's on page 28.

" [.....] said that [...] did not want to tell [.......] said she needed to ask [...] father. "

Good eyes and nice catch!

ETA: Oh! They're being interviewed by a Mrs. Taylor. Perhaps Mrs. T was the "she" who needed to ask [...]'s father...

[Iamthe20thDuggarKid]

Where is the "she"? I looked over that one, and saw part of "had trained her," but "her" referred to the dog, Jazmine. I noticed that "her" the first time I read it, but then realized it was in reference to the dog. It reads like JD to me, with the car repair and such. Oh! Reviewed again and found one "she," but again referring to the dog.

There is one last "she" at the end of that section, but it refers to Inv. Taylor. ("said she needed to ask (redacted) father"). I think this may be where people are getting confused.

[lilwriter85]

Lori Alexander deleted the comment thread about it in her sooper sekrit chat group.

Not surprising that she would do that. I'm guessing Lori won't bring up the topic on her blog. She is a major dumb ass, but i think it is possible she is feeling like crap right now especially since she has blogged about her admiration for the Duggars, Bateses, and now Willis family.

Lori is the one who blogged about how she was against sleepovers due to the possibility of children being molested by males in the home. She did two different blog entries on the topic.

[Eternalbluepearl]

I wonder what the Bates will now think. Their families seemed to spend a lot of time together over the years.

[BadMurphy]

In response to the thoughts about "the quiet ones" aka the possibility of Derrick putting this out there...

In the latest episode Digging with the Duggars, there's a preview of a future episode where Jill and Derrick announce something that Jim Bob says is a "big step"--anyone know what that big step is? Were they moving out of JB's house and somewhere else? If they moved to their own place then they would be out from under JB's iron influence and now essentially free to expose all.

Although to tell you the truth, I don't really think it was Derrick. I think it was one of JB or Josh's church or political enemies. Possibly someone from the many groups of people that they lobby against.

[Firiel]

It's on page 28.

" [.....] said that [...] did not want to tell [.......] said she needed to ask [...] father. "

That might be referring to Inv. Taylor.

"KID said that KID did not want to tell and Inv. Taylor needed to ask KID'S father."

[Iamthe20thDuggarKid]

Good eyes and nice catch!

Pretty sure that 'she' refers to Inv. Taylor.

[FlamingFundie]

Jeebuz. The leghumpers are in full force on IG. They say that anyone can fake anything, and that unless TLC or the Duggars themselves produced the POLICE report then no one should believe it. :cray-cray: :angry-banghead:

[Cheetah]

I was wondering if someone close to them tipped off InTouch as well. But (personally) I just can't see Ben or Derick doing it. To begin with, they have too much to lose financially if the show was canceled. I couldn't picture Derick doing it so soon after Isreal's birth and knowingly putting Jill in a position with the spotlight on her in this way. Ben just seems too dumb to go to these lengths, and him and Jessa seem to be together ALL the time, so he would have had to be doing some sneaky stuff.

What about Amy? She's been talking to the tabloids lately and has made some passive aggressive comments about them. ALSO, the main Duggar "scandal" of the week that made headlines was Amy not paying her producer. This story would surely overshadow her's, and maybe she slipped InTouch the info to get the heat off her!

I was thinking maybe it was John David. He's a constable so he'd have some access to law enforcement documents. He knows the story. He's never seemed close to Josh, and never been a big fan of the dog and pony show, and he's getting more and more young nieces and nephews. He's also Jana's twin, and maybe with Jessa and Jill moving out, he's noticed more and more how quiet and down jana and Jinger are. I don't know, just a thought.

[JenniferJuniper]

If Ben did that, I would give him a fundie pass for life. I'd love to see someone get pissed off and stand up for these girls instead of requiring them to instantly forgive and accept. These women aren't even allowed, culturally, to say, "I dont want to be around you or have you around my kids" without it being a sin!

Doubt anything like that will ever happen, but it will be interesting to see what happens now that the Duggar gravy train is almost certain to come to a screeching halt.

Derick has independent skills at least. If I were him, I'd take my wife and kid and James and just move away from the huge mess that will be left in the scandal's wake.

I just keep thinking of poor Jinger weeping over her unworthiness. Free Jinger.

[ClaraOswin]

I have a hard time thinking Ben or Derick would have put this out there unless Jessa or Jill ASKED them to. Because it's highly likely Jill and Jessa would prefer this never see the light of day.

[lilwriter85]

I was wondering if someone close to them tipped off InTouch as well. But (personally) I just can't see Ben or Derick doing it. To begin with, they have too much to lose financially if the show was canceled. I couldn't picture Derick doing it so soon after Isreal's birth and knowingly putting Jill in a position with the spotlight on her in this way. Ben just seems too dumb to go to these lengths, and him and Jessa seem to be together ALL the time, so he would have had to be doing some sneaky stuff.

What about Amy? She's been talking to the tabloids lately and has made some passive aggressive comments about them. ALSO, the main Duggar "scandal" of the week that made headlines was Amy not paying her producer. This story would surely overshadow her's, and maybe she slipped InTouch the info to get the heat off her!

Amy being the tipster is a possibility. She along with her mom have profited a little bit from 19kac in the past. She is also the one who was questioned years ago on FB or twitter about Josh having a fiancee/courtship before Anna and she said it was true. Amy has traveled with the family and appeared on the show and TLC also had that "Amy goes to Nashville" special. Since Jessa and Jill have courted and married, there hasn't been much Amy on the show and she probably got pissed that Derrick and Ben were now benefiting from the show.

I also have never believed that Amy has had a 100 happy relationship with her relatives. In the past, some of the kids including Josh didn't seem to care for her that much. Of course, once they got on social media they were hanging out with Amy and her boyfriends at times and then Amy got an increase in social media followers of 19kac and her relatives. Amy seems to have a better relationship with Mary Duggar than the J Slaves do.

[quiversR4hunting]

I just realized that none of these kids were ever allowed a private conversation before marriage. At all. Always with a chaperone even their texts and phone calls. I doubt any spouses, including Anna knew about this.

This brings a new dimension to the girls sharing a room. The girls say so they don't talk about inappropriate things. I assumed boys and if they have kissed, held hands, etc Normal teenager talk. I wonder if it was really to make sure the girls didn't talk about the "incident" and to protect the younger kids that came after the "incident." I also wonder if that is why all the girls really wanted to share a room in the big house....

[lascuba]

Good eyes and nice catch!

ETA: Oh! They're being interviewed by a Mrs. Taylor. Perhaps Mrs. T was the "she" who needed to ask [...]'s father...

That's a good point. I read it as the child didn't want to say something until she herself asked her father, but it's likely they were telling Taylor to ask.

I really don't think Ben or Derrick would contact the media if they knew. At most, I could see them insisting on distancing themselves and not being on the show anymore, but I doubt they'd go public.

[Ellimenopy]

In response to the thoughts about "the quiet ones" aka the possibility of Derrick putting this out there...

In the latest episode Digging with the Duggars, there's a preview of a future episode where Jill and Derrick announce something that Jim Bob says is a "big step"--anyone know what that big step is? Were they moving out of JB's house and somewhere else? If they moved to their own place then they would be out from under JB's iron influence and now essentially free to expose all.

Although to tell you the truth, I don't really think it was Derrick. I think it was one of JB or Josh's church or political enemies. Possibly someone from the many groups of people that they lobby against.

What about Ms. Cathy? I can see Derick finding out about it, being disturbed about it enough to talk it over with his mother, and she being disturbed enough about it to want to get it out there. I don't think Derick would do it, but... oh fuck. What about Dan? He's sooo not a Duggar fan.

[lilwriter85]

Doubt anything like that will ever happen, but it will be interesting to see what happens now that the Duggar gravy train is almost certain to come to a screeching halt.

Derick has independent skills at least. If I were him, I'd take my wife and kid and James and just move away from the huge mess that will be left in the scandal's wake.

I just keep thinking of poor Jinger weeping over her unworthiness. Free Jinger.

I agree with you on Derick.I think he and Jill will be fine and I agree, if I were him, I would take Jill and the baby and move to another place.

Ben and Jessa are different story and I suspect that they are worrying right now along with some of the other adult Duggar kids.

[clueliss]

Well, a few things have been answered for me.

We know why the girls room is on the complete opposite side of the house from the boys room (and the girls room is near JB/Michelle's room)

I think we know why the boys are sent out to the bus when other families visit overnight and the boys room becomes the guest room.

And we might have an insight as to why at a certain age the girls are encouraged to stop hanging with their brothers so much.

And this might be why JB put in the creepy intercom/security system where they can listen in (see?) to what is going on.

This is a sad sad situation. Until the police report came out I erred on the side of it's a rumor until proven otherwise.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I think this point is probably important. The Duggar's live in such a way that all sins are equally bad, right? And their constant policy is asking for public forgiveness. This is part of Gothardism, from what I have gleaned.

Now, they also are part of a world where there is no appropriate outlet for adolescent feelings and modesty is emphasized over all else. But all the little kids break the rules, so while they know that Sin A and Sin B are equally bad "in the eyes of God or whatever" but they've gotten away with Sin A without any real-world consequences, there is no real understanding or motivation to not commit Sin B (a worse sin, for this example.)

The Gothardism and the emphasis on purity above all else and isolation creates this environment for guilt, shame, and abuse and so on and so forth. So, yeah, of course he knew it was wrong because it was a sin but between Gothardism and isolation, there is no way for a 13 year old to tell just HOW wrong this is.

A lot of people on Pickles are calling Josh a straight-up pedophile which I don't believe is entirely fair and doesn't really take into account the several layers of how screwed up this is due to the religion and repression actions. If Josh was 13, the act is still molestation but not pedophilic molestation and it certainly doesn't mean that he is currently a pedophile. What is for sure true is that Michelle and Jim Bob have, as they always have, done their children horribly wrong by raising them this way, failing to protect them immediately, and failing to provide proper help and services at any sign of inter-sibling abuse.

I hope the way I'm putting this is not offensive. I just think that yes, this is molestation, but it is not necessarily sadistic predatory molestation but was born out of a culture that is well-suited to breed abusive tendencies and situations. I also imagine that if proper education and therapy were provided immediately after Michelle and JB had been told, then there would not be an entire list of victims or, from what I can tell, a long time period of repeating incidents. There are certainly services that provide that type of appropriate counseling to children that would have prevented further abuse.

All that said, I would honestly be shocked if there was any public response from the Duggars at all. That isn't how they seem to behave when criticized or when their secrets are discovered.

I completely agree with everything you've said. And, I too don't think the Duggars are going to say anything on the subject. I imagine they'll find some way to get support from their leghumpers if necessary (like the last petition to keep their show on the air). And then, in a couple weeks, they'll make some kind of big announcement like nothing changed between the last one and now. And, like good sheeple, the media and leghumpers will latch onto the new announcement.

I really don't think that the show is ending. If anything, Josh won't be shown except when necessary (like TLC did with Jon when the truth of his affair came out). But, he was already featured so rarely that I doubt people would really notice.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

It's on page 28.

" [.....] said that [...] did not want to tell [.......] said she needed to ask [...] father. "

The she that they are referring to is Investigator Taylor. Investigator Taylor is female.

[Rachel333]

I've got to say, even though I really dislike the Duggars I'm not feeling any schadenfreude at all right now. I would be if the show were cancelled because people finally payed attention to the fact that they're part of a patriarchal, homophobic, misogynist cult, but with this I just feel awful for everyone involved.