Derick, Jill, and Izzie

[ClaraOswin]

I'm skeptical that she didn't know this. My son was 3 lbs smaller than Izzy and i could still tell his position by feeling. This is weird but babies like backrubs before they're born. :lol: Moms just know, from the kicks and the movements. When i finally got him to turn, I slept in a recliner for weeks before he was born because every time i tried to lay down horizontally he would skootch around and i was for sure not going to risk a breech presentation, that would have made a hospital VBAC pretty much impossible.

I'm assuming that Jill DID know, and believed that she could do a breech no problem. Or maybe that visit to the chiro was to try some last minute Webster techniques, probably with a female assistant.

I don't think Jill was picky about being touched by a man - a man did her pedi including calf wraps. But at the hospital she probably did refuse being touched for a while hoping that they could still have a vaginal breech.

Driving the ISB is kinda fun. :lol: :auto-swerve:

I don't know...I could never tell what body part I was feeling when I was pregnant. But I'm not a "midwife in training" or whatever.

[somanybooks]

Is it just me or does it seem like Jill doesn't get Dericks sense of humor. He'll make a joke and she kinda gets this confused look on her face. I think it's because of her limited world view, that she doesn't even realize he's joking sometimes. That would make me feel so lame if my spouse didn't get my joke and at least fake laugh.

I agree that many of his remarks go right over her head. The Duggar idea of humor is practical jokes or the total trashing of wedding getaway vehicles. They are completely lacking in any kind of nuanced thinking or humor. We always say that Derick knew what he was getting into by marrying a Duggar but some of these more subtle things probably weren't on his radar. Does anyone remember ever hearing a Duggar sibling described as having a good sense of humor? I have a feeling that in the Gothard universe, humor is considered frivolous and a waste of time thus not something to be cultivated. I don't think it's one of the Gothard-approved 49 character qualities.

[SassyPants]

If baby was a frank or footling breech, there would have been a high likelihood of asphyxiation because of head entrapment or cord compression.

If transverse, usually the shoulder or arm presents first. There's just no way for the baby to come out the way--he would have died after a very long labor, and Jill would either have died as well or miraculous survived an infection, major bleeding, and/or even a uterine rupture.

ETA: Maybe they could have reached in and turned the baby back then. They do that now with second twins--they'll turn a tranverse baby breech and pull it out. Don't know if that would work with a singleton.

Not with a big, ole bubba like that.

[BrownieMomma]

I don't know...I could never tell what body part I was feeling when I was pregnant. But I'm not a "midwife in training" or whatever.

I could never tell either. It's been awhile, my youngest is 15 but I probably couldn't even tell you the head engaged properly if it was.

[Arrowoftruth]

Im mobile so I cant post the picture but Dericks latest insta says Is is 11lb 13oz. I dont have kids but a little over 2 pounds is normal weight gain for a month?

[lascuba]

I'm still shocked from that "Well, we ARE from Arkansas!" joke Josh made back when he and Anna were courting and they want on a double date with Jana and JD. Like, wow, a Duggar has a sense of humor, and an almost risque one at that!

I'm sure there are all sorts of pop culture references that many of the kids don't know, and wit and nuance is something sorely lacking in that family. But I do think her reactions do Derrick's jokes (if it's not just the standard TH awkwardness) is mostly just Jill being Jill, since some of the other kids would get it. FJ made all sorts of excuses for her, but remember when she shot Jinger down for wanting to live in a city? She's not a relaxed person, she's extremely dogmatic, and even if surrounded by the secular world, nothing will get through to her. I think many of her siblings, while not open-minded by any stretch, have probably subconsciously absorbed bits and pieces of the world around them. Jill's brain doesn't work that way--if it doesn't fit in her worldview, she completely filters it out.

[griffin]

at the end of jill's birthing special, they come to show israel to the family. boob turns to j'chelle and says "this is the beginning of many duggar grandchildren to come!". how rude! if i were anna, i'd be hurt and insulted. anna's been having duggar grandchildren now for about five years. israel's name is not duggar.

[Zasha]

I've noticed Jill seeming annoyed with things Derrick says or looking at him with a disapproving expression sometimes when he talks or jokes. I don't really think she always gets his humor but I think the disapproval is less about that and more about the way he deviates from the script. I don't mean the TLC script,I mean the fake way of living, talking and acting that the Duggars always do. I get the feeling he deviates from this in small ways, is the tiniest bit of an independent thinker and she hates it. She comes across as a giant kill joy.

[Miggy]

It could be partly learned behaviour too. How does Michelle react to JBs joke? She looks embarrassed, looks disapproving or tries to look sweet but struggles. (All legitimate responses to JBs jokes, IMO.) Jill could just be copying her mothers responses. She's probably not even doing it consciously.

[sense and nonsense]

I think the reason Izzy is being treated significantly different from the M Kids is because of Jill having more leg humpers.

She's clearly more popular on Insta, with the viewers, etc. She's also the poster child for the Gothard movement.

JB knows this, and clearly ups the focus on her.

Maybe when Jill is on kid 2 or 3 and the leg humpers are over her, she'll get a similar treatment with air time and the focus will be on Jana or Jinger.

[Coco]

I think the reason Izzy is being treated significantly different from the M Kids is because of Jill having more leg humpers.

She's clearly more popular on Insta, with the viewers, etc. She's also the poster child for the Gothard movement.

JB knows this, and clearly ups the focus on her.

Maybe when Jill is on kid 2 or 3 and the leg humpers are over her, she'll get a similar treatment with air time and the focus will be on Jana or Jinger.

Did he say the first of many for Jill and Derick?

That is just cruel if he intentionally overlooked the grandkids he already has because of the new one's popularity. What a jerk.

[Special friend]

Not to mention that Jill is the same sort of medical professional as doctors and nurses, and everyone knows doctors are terrible patients. Because Jill knows her own body better than anyone so why would anyone need to push on her tummy?

Honestly, I don´t think she refused an examination. In the VSE, it was stated very clearly that the doctor examined her when she got to the hospital and since everything seemed normal and labour had picked up again at that point, he said that they would let her labour for a while longer.

ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9-58KSJjgg (around 1 hour 12 minutes)

[SnazzyNazzy]

I don't know...I could never tell what body part I was feeling when I was pregnant. But I'm not a "midwife in training" or whatever.

Same here. At my 38 week appointment, my son was transverse and facing my back, and I had no stinking clue. When I went for my 39 week appointment, he was head down, and facing the right direction, and still had no clue that he had flipped. That boy was doing jumping jacks in there or something, because I was getting kicked/hit, at all angles. You would think that I would have learned head from ass, when my second was born. I still had no clue...lol.

[Fascinated]

Is it just me or does it seem like Jill doesn't get Dericks sense of humor. He'll make a joke and she kinda gets this confused look on her face. I think it's because of her limited world view, that she doesn't even realize he's joking sometimes. That would make me feel so lame if my spouse didn't get my joke and at least fake laugh.

It's not just you. I don't think she gets his humour and I get the feeling that Jill is just, well, boring as hell. I don't see them having a barrel of laughs. She always does that mirthless hahaha thing and that's about it. To me, Josh seems to be the Duggar with the best sense of humour and he can be self-deprecating, which is cool. But, when James grows up I predict he will be a (relative) blast, unless they beat it out of him in the meantime. He seems like quite the misceivous one.

[OkToBeTakei]

I agree.

Plus if all you want to do is complain about the discussions being had, it's pretty easy not to visit FJ.

Life is way too short.

:lol: What and miss all the 'experts' attempting to disguise their musings as fact? It's amusing.

Unfortunately though it's driven a few posters away. That's a shame.

[lascuba]

"The first of many grandchildren" is a horrible thing to say when you have 3 older grandchildren. I'm going to give Jim Bob the benefit of the doubt and assume that he meant the first of many children for Jill and Derrick, but it came out wrong. That said, I know a lot of people who think that their daughters' children...count more, I guess...than their sons'. They may not say it that way, but there's definitely a difference. Maybe it's as simple as children are traditionally women's domain, so it's easier to be more involved because one would have more boundaries with a daughter-in-law than their own daughter.

[BrownieMomma]

:lol: What and miss all the 'experts' attempting to disguise their musings as fact? It's amusing.

Unfortunately though it's driven a few posters away. That's a shame.

I think every adult here, which I presume the vast majority of FJ participants to be adults, realize you truly cannot please all the people all the time. There's always going to be somebody who doesn't like how things are going on the forums.

It seems every board I've participated on has its share of conservatives as well. The "old days" were better, all the new crowd has changed things too much. Such is life, and life rolls on.

[Rescinded and Mended]

If baby was a frank or footling breech, there would have been a high likelihood of asphyxiation because of head entrapment or cord compression.

If transverse, usually the shoulder or arm presents first. There's just no way for the baby to come out the way--he would have died after a very long labor, and Jill would either have died as well or miraculous survived an infection, major bleeding, and/or even a uterine rupture.

ETA: Maybe they could have reached in and turned the baby back then. They do that now with second twins--they'll turn a tranverse baby breech and pull it out. Don't know if that would work with a singleton.

This is an interesting point of the discussion for me, as my mother always told me I presented shoulder first when I was about to be born. I was actually a month late, and was a 10-pound baby. The way I heard it, I presented shoulder first, and then instead of doing a C-section, the doctor supposedly tried to reposition me so that instead of the shoulder being closer to the birth canal, my head was pushed in the proper place so my mother could deliver vaginally.

Mom always said that she nearly died during this moment and that she could actually see a white light. I think she was in labor with me for at least a couple of days.

So anyway, I guess I was transverse, but the doctor didn't perform a C-section for whatever reason. This was in the late 70s.

As a young child, I was diagnosed with ADHD. There has been speculation that head injuries during birth can cause things like ADHD or ADD, among other disabilities. Here's a website I found about it:

birthinjuryguide.org/birth-injury/types/cognitive-developmental-disabilities/

(As a disclaimer, I will add I don't really know a lot about childbirth and the positions in which babies present (other than my own experiences), nor do I know if there is any true connection between childbirth and certain injuries/disabilities, but it does certainly make food for thought. :think: )

[ClaraOswin]

Im mobile so I cant post the picture but Dericks latest insta says Is is 11lb 13oz. I dont have kids but a little over 2 pounds is normal weight gain for a month?

I went and looked...my son gained a couple pounds in his first month of life. I think it's pretty common. They gain really fast in the beginning. Their birth weight typically doubles by 4 months or so.

[PracticeMakesProgress]

I'm sure this was addressed several pages ago, but I rolled my eyes so hard they almost got stuck when Jill was chiding Derick for making jokes during the apparently holiest of holy Bradley classes. Gees.

Absolutely no disrespect for the female FJ'ers that have chosen this method to deliver their blessings, but come on, Jill. Derick has self-admittedly not been around and/or raised a truckload of babies like you fundy lot. You're now going to ask a young man with limited life and medical experience to be your stalwart coach at the delivery of your first-born? Give him a break! He's nervous, wants to do a good job, but he may need to crack a joke to get through such an event. For a man-coached class (more eye rolls), you sure were doing a lot of bossing....

I just can't imagine putting that kind of pressure on Mr. Practice. He's held one newborn, and broke out in a cold sweat doing so. Since we're expecting our first, the only demands I have of him are that he 1) be there, 2) TRY not to pass out, 3) let me squeeze his hand when it gets hard. If he wants to make a terrible labor joke, have at it. We all cope in different ways! We're with you, Derick...

[somanybooks]

I've noticed Jill seeming annoyed with things Derrick says or looking at him with a disapproving expression sometimes when he talks or jokes. I don't really think she always gets his humor but I think the disapproval is less about that and more about the way he deviates from the script. I don't mean the TLC script,I mean the fake way of living, talking and acting that the Duggars always do. I get the feeling he deviates from this in small ways, is the tiniest bit of an independent thinker and she hates it. She comes across as a giant kill joy.

For someone with a normal upbringing like Derick it's probably impossible to imagine that someone could be lacking a sense of humor. Kill joy indeed. She laughs/giggles constantly ( which I would find very tiresome after about 2 days) but it seems to be her standard/nervous response to lots of random things. Maybe it's assumed that if you're laughing you're "keeping sweet".

[VelociRapture]

Did anyone else see the Mother's Day article in People that Jill was interviewed for? She sounded relatively normal! I really liked that she said she feels blessed to be a mom because there are women who aren't able to have kids - just nice to see her acknowledge she's fortunate to have her little man.

[ljohnson2006]

Jill's been a mom for a month, and acts like she knows everything. :roll:

[Lucy H]

Did anyone else see the Mother's Day article in People that Jill was interviewed for? She sounded relatively normal! I really liked that she said she feels blessed to be a mom because there are women who aren't able to have kids - just nice to see her acknowledge she's fortunate to have her little man.

Totally off topic but the phrase "little man" to refer to boy babies or children just bothers me. We don't refer to baby girls or girl children as "little women." Well, we do, but only when girls are older and starting to look more like women.

It seems to put more value on a boy child, like he's going to be a MAN someday while girls are just going to turn into women.

I am sure velociraptor is not thinking or using it in this way but I am pretty sure the Duggars are.

[Fascinated]

I'm sure this was addressed several pages ago, but I rolled my eyes so hard they almost got stuck when Jill was chiding Derick for making jokes during the apparently holiest of holy Bradley classes. Gees.

Absolutely no disrespect for the female FJ'ers that have chosen this method to deliver their blessings, but come on, Jill. Derick has self-admittedly not been around and/or raised a truckload of babies like you fundy lot. You're now going to ask a young man with limited life and medical experience to be your stalwart coach at the delivery of your first-born? Give him a break! He's nervous, wants to do a good job, but he may need to crack a joke to get through such an event. For a man-coached class (more eye rolls), you sure were doing a lot of bossing....

I just can't imagine putting that kind of pressure on Mr. Practice. He's held

one newborn, and broke out in a cold sweat doing so. Since we're expecting our first, the only demands I have of him are that he 1) be there, 2) TRY not to pass out, 3) let me squeeze his hand when it gets hard. If he wants to make a terrible labor joke, have at it. We all cope in different ways! We're with you, Derick...

Agree, and that will be a great attitude for you to have. It must be very difficult for SO's to watch the mum going through labour and, no doubt wishing they could alleviate their discomfort. But back to Derick and the classes. My headship and I felt like total idiots practicing all these birth positions and breathing excercises (I ended up using none of them, btw), so I can't imagine how embarrassed we'd have been were it being filmed for mass consumption. We would be joking our asses off to get through it. But Miss Jill obviously knows better than anyone else as to the sacred nature of the revered Bradley class. :roll: