Daughter of gay moms rails against same-sex marriage

[snuggles911]

I received an interesting post on my Facebook feed today because one of my ultra conservative friends "liked" it. It was on today's lifeSiteNews.com. It's called "Dear Justice Kennedy: An open letter from the child of a loving gay parent.

The writer asks that same-sex marriage not be legalized because her moms divorced and while the mom who raised her was a good parent, she would have been happier with a mom and dad. She believes gays shouldn't be discriminated against in other areas (housing, employment, etc.) but should not be allowed to marry.

She insists that children of gays whether adopted or created through fertility treatments will always suffer because they lack a bond to their biological parent.

What gets my goat is that it's anti same-sex marriage people have jumped all over it, citing it as proof that gays are destroying the moral fabric of America. One person even said that gay couples use children as props and abuse them sexually. I hope that a happy child of gay parents will write a rebuttal.

[FundieWatcher]

Ok, so marriage is just the legal document. What she really wants is for gay couples not have children. Really the marriage part isn't relevant. I suppose she then extends that to anyone outside a heterosexual household- no single parents either. How can she say that to her mother's face? Sounds like a brat.

[browncoatslytherin]

so...she's upset that she grew up in a single parent household? just like a lot of other children these days whose straight parents divorce? oh boo-frickin-hoo, cry me a river. it's sad when a couple don't stay together and the children have to go through that, there are certainly issues that arise during that transition and after that transition, but it's not a situation unique to the gay community, which seems like it's what she's making it sound like to me?

[DGayle]

What a cruel bitch. Oh boo hoo, her parents got a divorce. Know who else divorces? Half of all people who get married.

What does she propose for sperm and egg donation?

[Terrie]

the subject should read "Daughter of gay moms complains that parents are only human" :pull-hair:

[browncoatslytherin]

the subject should read "Daughter of gay moms complains that parents are only human" :pull-hair:

pretty much! ffs, if she hates divorce and what it does for families, maybe she should be campaigning for the outlawing of ALL marriage!

[lilwriter85]

pretty much! ffs, if she hates divorce and what it does for families, maybe she should be campaigning for the outlawing of ALL marriage!

This.

[Inthemadhouse]

I actually do think that she should have the right to know her biological father. All adoptee's should. That man gave her half of her DNA, and she deserves to know him.

But that had jack-all to do with gay marriage. If she had been raised with her heterosexual biological parents, she wasn't gaurenteed anything different. They would have likely divorced (I think the number is over 50% now) and she would have been right back in the boat of being raised by one biological parent.

[nellautumngirl]

I finally figured out what bugs me the most about fundies and people like her: No empathy. They take a personal experience and take it as fact and assume that of course everybody else has the exact same experience, and if they don't, something is wrong with them, because of course her experience is the only right one. Gag me.

[Georgiana]

I actually do think that she should have the right to know her biological father. All adoptee's should. That man gave her half of her DNA, and she deserves to know him.

But that had jack-all to do with gay marriage. If she had been raised with her heterosexual biological parents, she wasn't gaurenteed anything different. They would have likely divorced (I think the number is over 50% now) and she would have been right back in the boat of being raised by one biological parent.

I think this is a tough issue. I think all adoptees should have the right to their biological family medical history. 100%. That's theirs, and I wish the states would require this be collected to the best of their ability when an adoption is taking place.

However, I also think that adults have the right to sever all ties to any individual that they wish, even if that individual is their genetic offspring. There are some really, really bad situations in this world, and sometimes, your best bet at healing from them is to completely leave them behind and start anew. It sucks, but some pregnancies are incredibly psychologically traumatic (especially when things like rape and abuse are thrown into the mix), and the woman needs to walk away completely to protect herself. Take a look at the situation with Cathy (Derrick's mom). It looks like her bio mom wanted to walk away completely, but Cathy was able to find her. She then told Cathy how she wasn't wanted and would have aborted her if it was in any way possible. Or imagine finding your bio mom and having her tell you that you were a product of a rape and that to her, you are simply a reminder of that violent act and she never wants to see you again. Sometimes, not knowing is actually best for both parties.

From the male perspective, I think if you start requiring too much out of a sperm donor situation, you run the risk of alienating large amounts of potential donors, which ultimately hurts people trying to conceive. Right now, a reasonable portion of my male friends could probably be persuaded to give a donation of their genetic material to a couple trying to conceive. However, if you say that the kid may someday have the right to track them down and claim them as a father, that number would drop to 0. That's a HUGE risk you're taking suddenly, and you'll find that most people don't want to take it (if they did potentially want a child, they probably would have one with their own partner).

[Burris]

If all traditional marriages were judged by that of my parents, for example, then the entire institution would be outlawed.

I'm just barely joking when I say their divorce was so bitter it could have caused an international incident.

This kid's logic is flawed; she's suffering from an incorrect assumption that her life would necessary have been better if she knew her father. What makes this worse is it sounds as if she had a good childhood for which she is so ungrateful that she would jeopardize the rights of others.

Contemptible ingrate.

[No Cure for Stupid]

As the daughter of an adoptee, I do think that there should be two birth certificates: one with the biological parents (sperm/egg donor included) and an adoption certificate that lists the adopting parents. I think people have a right to know where they come from genetically.

[StellaMarie]

From the male perspective, I think if you start requiring too much out of a sperm donor situation, you run the risk of alienating large amounts of potential donors, which ultimately hurts people trying to conceive. Right now, a reasonable portion of my male friends could probably be persuaded to give a donation of their genetic material to a couple trying to conceive. However, if you say that the kid may someday have the right to track them down and claim them as a father, that number would drop to 0. That's a HUGE risk you're taking suddenly, and you'll find that most people don't want to take it (if they did potentially want a child, they probably would have one with their own partner).

A thousand percent this. Requiring people who donate genetic material (sperm or eggs) to be listed on birth certificates would absolutely have a chilling effect on alternative reproduction methods.

While I appreciate that I'm not an adoptee and people have complex feelings about adoption that I will never understand, and while I really do have sympathy for those feelings, I also think that the effects of requiring people to disclose biological parentage is a potentially very dangerous idea. There are so many -- very good -- reasons why a biological parent wouldn't be listed on a birth certificate, or wouldn't want to be "found" later, and I just don't think we want lawmakers or the general public involved in those private decisions.

[LittleOleMe]

Her letter isn't against same sex marriage. It's against adoption and, presumably, using any sort of sperm or egg donation for conception. It also appears to be against single parent households. (As a single parent, that offends me greatly. It's not my fault he abandoned us.) But for some reason she thinks this means she should be against same sex marriage but that's not the case at all.

ETA: As far as requiring info from sperm donors, I was under the impression that they could give as little or as much information as they so desired, and could indicate if they were okay with a future offspring finding them. Obviously they have to give basic medical information and rightly so, but I thought they could give more info if they saw fit? There isn't just one way to get sperm donation. You can find a donor who is willing to be apart of the child's life or at least willing to be contacting at some point in the future. Or you can choose to find one that wants to be completely anonymous. There's even a registry somewhere where children can put in the register number of their sperm donor and find siblings. The sperm donors can also put in their numbers to find children.

I have a friend who was conceived through a sperm donor. Her heterosexual parents are married but her dad is sterile, so her mom went through artificial insemination with the same donor twice to conceive my friend and her younger brother. But it's her parents who refuse to give her information. She wants to know who her biological father is but she has absolutely no information to go on. It's considered a huge offense for her to even ask about it bc it somehow disrespects her father. (Of course her parents are ridiculous in a thousand other ways) But that isn't fair either. If the child wants to know, it's up to the sperm (or egg) donor to decide if that's okay, not the parents who raised the child. They basically just gave her another reason to resent them.

[Inthemadhouse]

Allowing an adoptive child to know where they came from does not mean that the biological parents are required to have a relationship with that child. If contacted, they can always say that they are not interested in one.

But there are other family members affected. Grandparents half-siblings, sometimes even full siblings. The biological parents may not want to pursue a relationship (and there's nothing wrong with that), but that desire does not give them the right to make the choice for other family members. Maybe Susie's brother would be thrilled to know that he has a sister out there. Maybe he would want nothing to do with her.

It's tough, but I don't think that the desire of the biological parent to remain anonymous trumps the right of the adoptee, especially once they are all adults.

[Cleopatra7]

Lifesitenews has to be one of the most ridiculous "news" sites out there. It's a right-wing Catholic tabloid that's like the unholy love child of The Weekly World News and Fox News, but with the slavish propaganda aspects of Pravda (with the editors getting their marching orders from the Vatican rather than Moscow).

[Toothfairy]

Boo fucking hoo. Do you know how many kids are raised by single parents. Do you know how many kids grow up not knowing their fathers or mothers? That's life. My daughter who I adopted came from an abusive background. She never knew her father and her mother was unavailable. This girl better be thankful that she had a parent who cared for her. And studies show that kids are more likely to be sexually abused from heterosexual parent households then from gay parent households. This girl needs therapy.

[Toothfairy]

As the daughter of an adoptee, I do think that there should be two birth certificates: one with the biological parents (sperm/egg donor included) and an adoption certificate that lists the adopting parents. I think people have a right to know where they come from genetically.

I agree. Kids have a right to know where they came from. I know an adoptive family that kept their sons adoption a secret for years until he found out. You can imagine how hurt he was to live a lie is whole life.

[lawlifelgbt]

As the daughter of an adoptee, I do think that there should be two birth certificates: one with the biological parents (sperm/egg donor included) and an adoption certificate that lists the adopting parents. I think people have a right to know where they come from genetically.

I have to disagree. When my wife and I have kids through a sperm donor, she'll carry, but I will be the parent, the same way a father would be. Birth certificates set who, as a parent, has legal rights to decide on things like school and emergency care for the child, and are instructive in custody disputes. So, definitely not two certificates! That would create a legal snafu, and worst case scenario, force genetic parents who have never seen the child to make life-changing decisions for that child.

And I shouldn't have to go through the process of adoption (thousands of dollars, hassle, and weeks in "limbo" after the baby's birth but before the court approves (since pre-birth adoption isn't a thing)). A big part of family and reproductive law is the "marital presumption." That is, if a couple is married, any child resulting is legally presumed to be the child of both parents, even where that may not be the case. Straight couples get this presumption- why shouldn't others? Yes, I realize the biological impossibility of the presumption in same-gender couples, but if that's how the law applies to married couples, and the parents are married, it could be an equal protection problem to not apply the same "presumption" standard to them. That standard has worked in recent caselaw with married same-gender couples.

But the bottom line is, my wife's bio-kids will be my kids. Not someone else's, in any way, and certainly not in a way that would have to be legally acknowledged. We plan to fight tooth and nail to get my name on all documents showing parentage.

[Rachel333]

It seems like her problem is with sperm donation, not gay marriage. If her mother had been married to a man but needed to use a sperm donor and later divorced, she would be in the exact same situation.

And honestly, I'm kind of rethinking my stance on sperm/egg donation. I definitely think it should still be an option, but it seems like an awful lot of kids who were conceived that way have issues because of it. It is totally normal and natural to want to know your biological parent. That doesn't mean that a non-biological parent isn't a "real" parent, but that people are just going to be curious about their biological heritage and it isn't fair to expect donor-conceived kids not to be.

[Mermaidgrrrl]

In Australia we have laws that only allow identity release donors. When the donor conceived child reaches 18 they can ask the clinic for the name and last known contact details for the donor. This doesn't guarantee of course that the donor will want an ongoing relationship or that the offspring will want one either, but the option is the to know each other.

People are correct that then the donor numbers take a hard hit - there are very few Australian donors. Many women using donor sperm now have to buy from overseas, and even then it must be identity release.

The problem seems to be that this woman was not happy with her upbringing which has very little to do with donor conception. She is choosing to proportion blame on that aspect. Usually it's children of heterosexual parents who were donor conceived who are very anti-donor. Because they find out after years of being lied to and usually during an anger fuelled divorce. I have never before heard of a person conceived into an openly gay household who has always known about being donor conceived to have an issue with it.

I need to go back and read the article agaîn to see what I think about the whole thing - it's been a while since I read it. Was it her mother who kept changing partners and was drama fuelled?

[Mermaidgrrrl]

Found a letter, but it sounds like she was the child of heterosexual divorce whose father was then absent. Which has nothing to do whatsoever with gay marriage. Am I reading the wrong one?

[Black Aliss]

Found a letter, but it sounds like she was the child of heterosexual divorce whose father was then absent. Which has nothing to do whatsoever with gay marriage. Am I reading the wrong one?

EXactly! Why wasn't her father an important part of her life? She just glosses over that aspect, except to say that her parents' divorce was the most traumatic event in her life. Seems to me she'd be better off working out her abandonment issues and trying to establish a relationship with her father, than imploring Justice Kennedy to interfere in the lives of millions of other people.

[Maggie Mae]

I was conceived in the early 80s as a "test tube" baby using donor materials. I go back and forth on my feelings about it. And while I know how terrible it sounds, I've often thought that people who are sterile are sterile for a reason, and maybe it should stay that way. Then I remember that other people aren't my parents so maybe I'm just jaded. Also, these beliefs tend to fluctuate with how much I believe in God that day. So there's that.

I have no problem with marriage, same sex or opposite sex, as long as everyone involved consents of course. But I'd really like for people who are having difficulty conceiving to pursue other avenues before they create life. Adopting for one.

Part of me thinks that I have no right to pursue looking for the people who donated. They didn't raise me, not my parents, nurture over nature, etc. But part of me wants to know. And being a twenty something who was a little slutty was worried about sleeping with a potential close relative. Not to mention the lying and the trust issues I have. And the school I went to that had the same stance on IVF as Zsu. It makes things very confusing.

[LittleOleMe]

I was conceived in the early 80s as a "test tube" baby using donor materials. I go back and forth on my feelings about it. And while I know how terrible it sounds, I've often thought that people who are sterile are sterile for a reason, and maybe it should stay that way. Then I remember that other people aren't my parents so maybe I'm just jaded. Also, these beliefs tend to fluctuate with how much I believe in God that day. So there's that.

I agree. My feelings on IVF go back and forth quite a lot as well. I wasn't conceived via IVF but my parents experienced secondary infertility and went that route after me. Each round ended in miscarriages so it wasn't successful but I'm still not completely sold on it being okay. Part of me agrees with you that people who are sterile are sterile for a reason. And part of me feels like it's too close to playing god. But I also understand the desire to be pregnant and to carry a child. So yeah, I totally get how your feelings and beliefs fluctuate.