Bringing Up Bates & Other Bates Family Doings

[calimojo]

The thing is, people use the Duggar kids doing way less than that as an example of shitty parenting. Gil and Kelly have done no better job parenting than Jim Bob and Michelle but since they appear more personable on camera, people seem to give them more of a pass.

I can quibble a lot with how they raised their kids. They value education as long as it is ATI approved. Their children have jobs that are ATI approved jobs. Their children only marry people who are ATI approved. They raised their oldest son in such a way that he felt guilty for kissing the person he was gong to marry. Thriving is not the word I would use with either the Bates or the Duggars kids. They are learning to deal with being raised in a cult and how that impacts their lives as they grow up. It is very hard to actually thrive in an ATI environment because it isn't created to help children thrive, it is created to hamper and control children well into adulthood. ATI is the opposite of thriving children. And Gil and Kelly are deep into that cult. They may put on a good show, but don't be fooled by it, they are no different than any other fundie parent and judging from Gil's treatment of Gothard, I would say they are probably worse.

The Duggar kids also have to deal with all the baggage that comes with having grown up on reality television. This isn't a popular opinion around here, but I think that the Duggar kids are just as comfortable around their parents as the Bates kids, they are just less comfortable in front of a camera so it appears that they aren't, but I imagine things are different when the cameras are not around.

I don't disagree with you that the way kids in the ATI cult are raised if overall dysfunctional. But, to me, it is very clear that there is a distinct difference in the personal parenting styles of the Bates vs the Duggars. The Bates kids actually have a spark of life. They are all relatively well spoken (though grammar is not a strong suit for all), and they seem very comfortable with each other and with the parents. I have seen examples where the Parents remind the kids to be thoughtful of others, not to be disruptive and to clean up after themselves. I may have missed it, but I don't recall seeing that with the Duggars. I recall JimBob letting his feral kids tear up an historic home in Little Rock because "kids have a lot of energy they need to get out".

The Duggar children are stiff and awkward, and especially around their parents. They don't seem to have strong connections to one another and I think their education is far inferior to the Bates.

Please don't assume that just because I can point out some ways that I think the Bates family are doing well, means that I endorse their beliefs, or their lifestyle because I don't. But i can look at both of these families and definitely see where one has some advantages and improvements over the other. I still wouldn't want my kids to marry into either family, and I pray that the Bates and Duggar Kids will leave the cult behind one day and lead a more normal life. I think Gil and Kelly, and JB and Michelle may be in for a surprise or two when they finally "Meet their maker".

[pega127]

I think asking or expecting your 70+ year old parents to host your ridiculously huge family is selfish. His parents talked about how difficult it was, the kids pretty much acknowledged how loud and disruptive they are.

I would never in a million years expect any relative, including my Mom to accommodate that many people.

Bring an RV or rent hotel rooms & help with the meal if they wish to host dinner.

I' m guessing the grandparent's hosting was all staged/financed by UP? Some behind the scenes footage never seen, could've included alternate accommodations and meal prep.

[calimojo]

I think asking or expecting your 70+ year old parents to host your ridiculously huge family is selfish. His parents talked about how difficult it was, the kids pretty much acknowledged how loud and disruptive they are.

I would never in a million years expect any relative, including my Mom to accommodate that many people.

Bring an RV or rent hotel rooms & help with the meal if they wish to host dinner.

I think they did help with the meal. Pretty sure that Alyssa was a big help to G ma.

I liked that they let the grandparents and aunt and uncle be fairly honest in admitting it is a trial to have the whole family visiting. This felt real and honest to me. It doesn't mean that they don't also enjoy it. My thought is, that if grandpa bought that land parcel, and his other kids live on it with their families and they have 8 acres set aside for Gil and Kelly, then they clearly want their family to be together.

I find it draining to host big family events, but I enjoy doing it as well. I love to have them come over, and I love to say good bye.

I think Kelly and Gil could do a better job in reminding the kids to be considerate of their Grandparents, especially Grandma as she seems more easily stressed by all the commotion. That being said, the kids were not really disrespectful as much as they were just not very thoughtful about things. Which is typical of kids, and is why parents need to be on them to be more thoughtful, etc.

The fact is 19 kids are just too many for 2 parents to truly manage things well. Kelly and Gil seem to at least try to manage them, but ultimately, they can't keep their eyes on the them all. This is all their fault though because they are the ones who chose to have this many children..

[formergothardite]

I don't disagree with you that the way kids in the ATI cult are raised if overall dysfunctional. But, to me, it is very clear that there is a distinct difference in the personal parenting styles of the Bates vs the Duggars. The Bates kids actually have a spark of life. They are all relatively well spoken (though grammar is not a strong suit for all), and they seem very comfortable with each other and with the parents. I have seen examples where the Parents remind the kids to be thoughtful of others, not to be disruptive and to clean up after themselves. I may have missed it, but I don't recall seeing that with the Duggars. I recall JimBob letting his feral kids tear up an historic home in Little Rock because "kids have a lot of energy they need to get out".

The Duggar children are stiff and awkward, and especially around their parents. They don't seem to have strong connections to one another and I think their education is far inferior to the Bates.

Please don't assume that just because I can point out some ways that I think the Bates family are doing well, means that I endorse their beliefs, or their lifestyle because I don't. But i can look at both of these families and definitely see where one has some advantages and improvements over the other. I still wouldn't want my kids to marry into either family, and I pray that the Bates and Duggar Kids will leave the cult behind one day and lead a more normal life. I think Gil and Kelly, and JB and Michelle may be in for a surprise or two when they finally "Meet their maker".

The Duggars are rather damned if they do and damned if they don't. If their kids run around and act wild they get criticized for having feral children but if their kids are well behaved they get criticized for having robots. What episode is it where the Duggars are helping the Bates with the house and one of the Bates daughters come out and say something extremely rude to a Duggar daughter about her painting? The Bates have shown their young children climbing on tables and sitting down to eat something the Duggars get criticized for. Then there was the quickly edited horse episode where their kids didn't treat the horses well at all. I think Michelle and Kelly both just gave up after the first kids and that isn't bad because it means less blanket training, but it also means less manners. If you see Gil and Kelly reminding their children to pick up and be polite, there is a good chance it has more to do with them knowing what the Duggars get criticized for and less to do with their real parenting.

Why do you think the Bates have a better education? I would guess that both families got the same shitty ATI education which is Wisdom Booklets(that Kelly will most likely not mention using) and then some online courses so that Kelly and Michelle don't have to be too involved with teaching their kids. The Bates don't have the money like the Duggars to keep their kids at home so they are rather forced to allow their children to branch out more, of course, they only encourage and allow them to branch out into ATI approved jobs and lives.

As a person who is awkward in front of cameras(you should see my wedding pictures and video. :lol: ) and isn't a charismatic, outgoing person like most of the Bates children seem to be, I feel like a lot of this awkwardness is just personality and the Duggar kids being tired of doing the entire reality television thing. If you followed my family around with a camera you would probably conclude that we all hate each other just because we are all awkward, introverted people and a camera makes it worse. The part of my wedding video with just me and my parents right before the wedding is painful to watch. It is right up there with the Jessa and Ben closet courtship moment.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

During EXCEL(an ATI event that no longer exists) character reviews I always got 1s and 2s on being joyful, cheerful, and an energy giver. I think I was even told that I lacked "spark". I wasn't actually even completely miserable, I am just not a hugely outgoing person who constantly puts on a happy show. One of the most cheerful seeming people(who, of course got invited to more events because she was so damn cheerful all the time) there whose parents came to the EXCEL graduation and they seemed to all get along grand, ended up having one of the most fucked up ATI homes I know of. But you wouldn't have been able to tell it from the good show that whole family put on. ATI is all about appearances. So many of the "happy" families where the parents and kids appeared to get along great ended up not being so happy. So a reality tv show where their goal seems to be to "prove" how happy and not weird they are, doesn't really convince me that they are any more happy than the Duggars.

[Mama Mia]

The rest of it aside -- Good Lord, if people are considered bad, lazy parents because the worst thing their teen does is walk on a tablecloth while hanging decorations for a family get- together .....I can't even imagine a parent who has somehow done a good enough job! Real or fictional! That's kind of taking super parenting as a competitive cut- throat sport to a new high ( or low, depending on your view)

[calimojo]

your experiences in the cult are always very interesting. Do you know the bates family or have had contact with them? I enjoy your insights and I don't think we disagree fully. Based on what I see on TV, the Bates are warmer and and a more close knit family.

Based on what I see on TV, the Duggars seem less close, and less concerned with education and career potential.

If the Bates are watching the Duggars and reading the reaction to them, and then changing their approach, then that to me shows some adaptability on their part. Some of this is calculated to make them seem more normal and relatable, and some of it just might be an indication that they are willing to change a bit.

I have a bit more hope that the Bates kids will have more successful lives than most of the Duggars. I also think more of the Bates kids will live low key, and not join the family circus, except for special occasions, a la, Alyssa.

The bottom line to me is somewhere along the line, Whether Gil and Kelly intended it or not, The Bates kids have learned to be slightly more independent thinkers than what I see from the Duggars. I feel as if the Bates kids are more secure in their relationship with their parents and each other, and don't feel shunning, shaming, quite as much as I think the Duggar kids might.

[formergothardite]

The rest of it aside -- Good Lord, if people are considered bad, lazy parents because the worst thing their teen does is walk on a tablecloth while hanging decorations for a family get- together .....I can't even imagine a parent who has somehow done a good enough job! Real or fictional! That's kind of taking super parenting as a competitive cut- throat sport to a new high ( or low, depending on your view)

I probably didn't make myself clear, I don't think it is that huge of a deal that the teen walked on a tablecloth while hanging decorations, but if any of the Duggars had done that there would be an entire thread devoted to how rude the Duggars are and how this is a clear sign that Jim Bob and Michelle are terrible parents.

I do think that it isn't the best manners to allow young children to crawl up on the table and sit on it for meals, which I saw happen with the Bates in an old interview with them. But of all the things they do, this is the least worrisome thing.

[formergothardite]

your experiences in the cult are always very interesting. Do you know the bates family or have had contact with them? I enjoy your insights and I don't think we disagree fully. Based on what I see on TV, the Bates are warmer and and a more close knit family.

Based on what I see on TV, the Duggars seem less close, and less concerned with education and career potential.

If the Bates are watching the Duggars and reading the reaction to them, and then changing their approach, then that to me shows some adaptability on their part. Some of this is calculated to make them seem more normal and relatable, and some of it just might be an indication that they are willing to change a bit.

I have a bit more hope that the Bates kids will have more successful lives than most of the Duggars. I also think more of the Bates kids will live low key, and not join the family circus, except for special occasions, a la, Alyssa.

The bottom line to me is somewhere along the line, Whether Gil and Kelly intended it or not, The Bates kids have learned to be slightly more independent thinkers than what I see from the Duggars. I feel as if the Bates kids are more secure in their relationship with their parents and each other, and don't feel shunning, shaming, quite as much as I think the Duggar kids might.

I have never met the Bates, but I have been around ATI families since the early 80's. Just in my experience, the poster families with the happy kids who all follow ATI approved paths and seem to have wonderful relationships with their parents, those are the ones with the most problems. If you were going to create the perfect ATI family, it would be the Bates, not the Duggars. The Duggar kids have admitted they want to do things that aren't ATI approved, they aren't bubbly and happy all the time, Jim Bob and Michelle really aren't media savvy at all, and they make ATI look weird.

ATI may claim that they believe in unchanging principles, but really it is all about adapting to make sure everything looks good. So I don't think it is that strange that Gil and Kelly, who are in Gothard's inner circle, adapted some to make their life look less cult like. Honestly wouldn't be shocked if it came out that Gothard gave input about the show. ATI needs a new image and Gil and Kelly can go a long way in helping because they do come off as more likable, less extreme, and less judgmental. I don't think that that means they really are all those things, they just know how to make people think that about them.

I think the Bates and Duggar parents would react privately the exact same way if any of their kids did something like say they were moving out, getting a non-ATI approved job, and dating whoever they wanted. Publically Gil and Kelly would most likely be able to put on a better show of acceptance.

[Geechee Girl]

I've been jonesing for central FL episode, to give me glimpses of my other home. I was a tad disappointed the Bateses chose the second most populated spot -after the pier- on Clearwater Beach. I'm sure production probably had a hand in it for the "modesty story." I have no doubt John knows the nearly empty beach further north. The west coast Florida beaches are ripe with stingrays. Locals know to do the stingray shuffle as the walk in the water in an attempt to not get stung.

The monster truck ride looked fun. I'm glad the kids got to see a real gator. Alyssa was mistaken, in Fl one should expect gators in natural ponds, lakes, and retention ponds. Bless her heart, I have sympathy for her maintaining her composure during that visit. I couldn't keep sweet having a house full of people, especially family.

Anyone discover what kind of school the Bates boy is in where he needed to leave early?

[princessmahina]

Anyone discover what kind of school the Bates boy is in where he needed to leave early?

Isn't he enrolled in Crown College?

[nelliebelle1197]

your experiences in the cult are always very interesting. Do you know the bates family or have had contact with them? I enjoy your insights and I don't think we disagree fully. Based on what I see on TV, the Bates are warmer and and a more close knit family.

Based on what I see on TV, the Duggars seem less close, and less concerned with education and career potential.

If the Bates are watching the Duggars and reading the reaction to them, and then changing their approach, then that to me shows some adaptability on their part. Some of this is calculated to make them seem more normal and relatable, and some of it just might be an indication that they are willing to change a bit.

I have a bit more hope that the Bates kids will have more successful lives than most of the Duggars. I also think more of the Bates kids will live low key, and not join the family circus, except for special occasions, a la, Alyssa.

The bottom line to me is somewhere along the line, Whether Gil and Kelly intended it or not, The Bates kids have learned to be slightly more independent thinkers than what I see from the Duggars. I feel as if the Bates kids are more secure in their relationship with their parents and each other, and don't feel shunning, shaming, quite as much as I think the Duggar kids might.

When Gil Bates steps off the ATI/IBLP board, disavows Bill Gothard and allows one of his daughters to marry someone outside the IBLP circle, then you can talk about a willingness to change. All of this is calculated, right down to the chalk drawing session. The Duggars, on the other hand, actually only have one child married within the cult- Josh- while the last two marriages were guys completely outside their circle. And those were daughters, more likely to fall away after they submit elsewhere.

I also don't see where there is evidence the Bates kids are better educated.

[Nellie]

Oh I do hate ALOT about the Bates but you ve gotta give them credit - at least their older kids are all employed and make their own money. Erin is a certicified pianist and could easily live on her own if she wanted to, Lawson and Zack provide for themselves as well and even Michaella was employed as a nanny for years, so she probably does have some cash stacked up. The Duggars are raising nothing but reality show preachers who sell their privacy for cash. And I have yet to see the Bates recording an accident of their child and showing it on TV. You have to admit the Bates are a tad more likeable and not as creepy as the Duggars.

[calimojo]

When Gil Bates steps off the ATI/IBLP board, disavows Bill Gothard and allows one of his daughters to marry someone outside the IBLP circle, then you can talk about a willingness to change. All of this is calculated, right down to the chalk drawing session. The Duggars, on the other hand, actually only have one child married within the cult- Josh- while the last two marriages were guys completely outside their circle. And those were daughters, more likely to fall away after they submit elsewhere.

I also don't see where there is evidence the Bates kids are better educated.

Yes, if Gil did that, that would be huge substantive change. I agree that it is very unlikely that will happen anytime soon. I do think it is possible that more of the kids will marry outside of the cult like Zach did, just because of the sheer number of them. But I think, like with Ben and Derick, it will be to men or women who are willing to join them, and not stand up to them too much, in the beginning anyway.

As for education, What I mean by being better educated is so far a handful have gone to college. Michaela has been mentioned to be going to a local community college, I think, Erin went, Nathan and I thought that Tori was also going. In some TH's from either BUB, or US of B, I remember Kelly talking about wanting college for their kids.

The kids themselves seem to be more quick witted than the Duggar kids, which is often a sign of intelligence and/or exposure to more education. They have a more fluid vocabulary and a quicker sense of humor, at least on the show compared to the Duggar kids. Now off camera, the Duggar kids may be entirely different and sharp as tacks. But they are either edited to show them as somewhat dim, or they are all just very uncomfortable on camera, which seems odd for kids who have mostly grown up on camera.

ETA: grammar/spelling. My fingers are moving slower than my brain today, so I keep missing words or changing tense, etc. Ironic I am talking about education and based on my own writings, it is hard to believe I am a college graduate, and then some.

[LogansMama]

When Gil Bates steps off the ATI/IBLP board, disavows Bill Gothard and allows one of his daughters to marry someone outside the IBLP circle, then you can talk about a willingness to change. All of this is calculated, right down to the chalk drawing session. The Duggars, on the other hand, actually only have one child married within the cult- Josh- while the last two marriages were guys completely outside their circle. And those were daughters, more likely to fall away after they submit elsewhere.

It's true Jill and Jessa married outside the ATI/IBLP cult, HOWEVER, JB has done everything he can to indoctrinate those fellas and mold them into his ideal suitors. I really liked Derick when he was first introduced, but now he just walks around sputtering things about the "season of life". It was especially evident when JB and M were giving Jill and Derick pre-martial classes! That really pissed me off. D seemed so uncomfortable and scared to give an incorrect answer, lest JB break off the engagement.

And Baby Ben, JB went so far as to move him onto the compound and employ him. Talk about a controlling FIL!

[formergothardite]

The Bates haven't really had the opportunity to record their children getting hurt to sell as entertainment, and now that they have seen how the Duggars got criticized for doing so, I'm sure they wouldn't. They also don't have the money to support their adult children, so they were pretty much forced to allow them to get ATI approved jobs.

I find the Bates more creepy than the Duggars. You got Gil and Kelly, who behind all the likability and niceness they show on TV, are actually the sort of people that Bill Gothard wants to surround himself with. To me, that shows me that their true character isn't as nice as they make it look on TV. Then they make it look like all of their children are happy with the ATI life and none of them have publically admitted to wanting something that isn't ATI approved. I find that disturbing and way more robotic than the Duggars. Zack is the closest one to being rebellious and he felt so guilty about it he had to confess to his parents.

With the Duggars you get kids rolling their eyes when talking about courtship, not looking super happy with this whole lifestyle, and admitting that they want things that ATI/their parents don't approve of. To me, that is more realistic and less robotic than the "look aren't we just one big happy totally normal family!" Bates.

[Nellie]

The Bates haven't really had the opportunity to record their children getting hurt to sell as entertainment, and now that they have seen how the Duggars got criticized for doing so, I'm sure they wouldn't. They also don't have the money to support their adult children, so they were pretty much forced to allow them to get ATI approved jobs.

I find the Bates more creepy than the Duggars. You got Gil and Kelly, who behind all the likability and niceness they show on TV, are actually the sort of people that Bill Gothard wants to surround himself with. To me, that shows me that their true character isn't as nice as they make it look on TV. Then they make it look like all of their children are happy with the ATI life and none of them have publically admitted to wanting something that isn't ATI approved. I find that disturbing and way more robotic than the Duggars. Zack is the closest one to being rebellious and he felt so guilty about it he had to confess to his parents.

With the Duggars you get kids rolling their eyes when talking about courtship, not looking super happy with this whole lifestyle, and admitting that they want things that ATI/their parents don't approve of. To me, that is more realistic and less robotic than the "look aren't we just one big happy totally normal family!" Bates.

I find the Bates kids to be a little more animated while the Duggar kids are somehow lifeless. In the end of the day we most likely will never find out what those kids truly think about their parents. I do hope that at least some of Duggar/Bates boys manage to get out of this lifestyle if they possibly can.

[LogansMama]

I find the Bates kids to be a little more animated while the Duggar kids are somehow lifeless. In the end of the day we most likely will never find out what those kids truly think about their parents. I do hope that at least some of Duggar/Bates boys manage to get out of this lifestyle if they possibly can.

Jessa? Lifeless? Come on...seriously? That is one vain loudmouth.

[formergothardite]

Unless someone writes a tell all book, we probably won't know what really is going on in these houses, but I just think Gil and Kelly are shady as hell and most likely worse parents than Michelle and Jim Bob.

Isn't a Duggar son going to college out of state?

[LogansMama]

Unless someone writes a tell all book, we probably won't know what really is going on in these houses, but I just think Gil and Kelly are shady as hell and most likely worse parents than Michelle and Jim Bob.

Isn't a Duggar son going to college out of state?

I think that someone will end up being Joy or perhaps Hannie, Jennifer or Jordyn. NOT Josie, the miracle child.

[calimojo]

I think we can all pretty much agree, they are both creepy. Both families are a part of a disturbing cult, based on bigoted, hateful, misogynistic teachings. Both have are very misguided in their views of Christianity. Both have children who are severely disadvantaged by how they were raised. And because these families have money coming in from the TV shows, it incorrectly gives the impression that it really is possible to raise 19 children and everything will be rosy.

They completely leave out the realities of this lifestyle, for example:

No one talks about going to bed hungry (except for Jill eating in the bathroom), no one talks about being blanket trained, or watching their parent blanket train their siblings, or Worse, being forced to blanket train their own siblings at the behest of their parents.

I don't recall the girls ever talking about having to get up through the night to attend to their baby siblings that they have been given the responsibility for at about 6 mos of age. And I don't recall hearing any of the kids ever say, I never get one on one time with my mom or dad, because they always have 5 or 6 other ones around all the time.

Personally, I would like to see some of those realities in the show. I would like to hear the parents talk about their struggles, did they ever doubt or have fears that they weren't going to be able to stay afloat, feed or house their children?

We definitely just get the window dressing. And sadly, with children, they themselves are probably being sold on this as well because they are probably discouraged from having or sharing memories of when life was harder.

I mean it wasn't all that long ago, that the Bates Family was in that little shack that had like 1 bathroom a tiny laundry area and very small kitchen. Even the younger kids likely remember that.

That had to have been a really difficult way to live with all those kids, but I am sure they have all been brainwashed into thinking that it was just a fun adventure.

As far as Education, I do think that the Bates have had a better homeschool education. First off, they are being taught by Kelly, who at least had a decent education of her own. Compared to Michelle who just had a HS diploma. They have a more fluid vocabulary and are more quick witted. And so far we know that Michaela, Erin, Nathan and Tori are going or have gone to college. True, it has mostly been Crown College, but still it is hopefully better than nothing. I am not sure if Zach went, but I think his wife did. Their younger kids all seem to be more on target developmentally that the youngest Duggars. Their speech is more clear. Poor Jordan and Josie, seem so much younger than their true ages, even accounting for Josie's rough start in life.

Kelly has said in a TH that she wants her kids to go to college. They at least seem to value education more than JB does. As far as the quality of the home school education materials, I am sure they are pretty much the same.

[formergothardite]

The desire for college probably comes from Kelly having gone to college and them having less money to support their children. Kelly and Gil know that despite their teachings, there is a limit to how many families can be supported by grifting.

[calimojo]

well, it doesn't matter the reason why, as much as the outcome. Just the fact that they are at least open to the kids getting some college is a good thing.

BTW< did anyone notice Trace playing football? The kid looked like he had some natural talent. Too bad he was never given a chance to play on a team. (though with all the evidence on the dangers of football and brain injury, maybe that is not such a bad thing).

What bothers me so much is that with both the Duggars and with the Bates, the parents clearly enjoyed their high school and (for the bates) college experiences. So why do they deprive their kids from having the same opportunities? Gil probably learned a lot of life skills by playing sports. Why prevent your kids from the same?

I have wondered in Gil's case if he got his wings clipped at his Nabisco job. Maybe he had a female boss, or something that really offended his masculinity and that was why he quit. With Michelle, I feel certain she has some kind of experience in her past that left her feeling very conflicted and possibly guilty, even though she probably doesn't really need to be guilty. A common theme that would be consistenty with how she has lived her life, is some sort of sexual situation, either coerced or consenting, that left her very scarred.

I know very little about Kelly's family or upbringing. So I can't say where the crazy was seeded for her. JB, well, I imagine he was a nerdy dorky kid who got the big prize with the pretty Michelle, and somehow found a way to keep her tied to him, either through her own insecurity or something else.

And Gil's parents seem fairly normal, so I don't know what caused his crazy turn to Gothardism either. It seems like he was a successful teen, athletic, well liked, etc. So maybe he suffered from great expectations, that just didn't translate into what he hoped for in the real world. But once he found religion, he could be his own version of Big Man on Campus again.

[19 cats and counting]

While it's true that the Duggars only have one married within ATI, the men that JB selected for his daughters are not outsiders that will come and rescue them. I highly doubt that JB wants ATI royalty for his daughters, and that he would prefer Kool Aid drinkers who are easily influenced by JB and JB alone. (Despite his 'normal' upbringing, it seems that Derick is quickly guzzling the Kool Aid and Baby Dilly will likely be raised ATI). The jury's still out on Ben, but he did relocate to be JB's yard boy/bitch.

But looking at the Bates girl suitors, I don't think JB would have approved of them. (Rumor has it Jana and/or JB said no to a Zach Bates courtship). Chad is the only one I can remotely see (because he was willing to relocate). John and Brandon, I don't see because they did/most likely will relocate their brides upon marriage. JB wants his kids' spouses to relocate to their area, not the other way around (Anna and Ben did, Derick was already fairly local with a job in the area). Honestly I don't even know if JB would approve of Gothard's successor, David Waller, if he proposed courting one of his daughters because he's too much influence.

And besides, can you picture JB asking a congressman's son to be his lawn boy?

[calimojo]

well, I would assume he wouldn't have had to ask the congressman's son to be a lawn boy.

The whole lawnboy thing is one of the stranger things that JB has done. But I think it came down to filming. I think it was suggested as good story line and they went for it. Ben might have earned some money to put towards the marriage too, if he was being paid for his on screen time. I think the whole thing was orchestrated for the show.

Maybe you're right, JB wants spineless men that he can control. I just hope it blows up in his face and that Derick, Ben or one yet to be determined grows a really big set of cajones and tells JB that there is a new sheriff in town.

How likely is Chad to become distant from Gothardism? He seems like such a good guy. And his brother seems to be distancing himself from the cult. Do we think it is possible that he might as well?

Erin seems pretty entrenched, but perhaps Chad can quietly influence her away. I worry though because it seems as if Gil and Kelly are very willing to exploit Chad in anyway possible. He seems like the workhorse of the family, and I worry that this will really wear on him once he starts having his own children to look after.

[MissBitters]

I think Erin and Chad attend a regular Baptist church connected to Crown College and not Gil's church. It's still not my cup of tea but it's a start.