The Bloggess Takes on Girl Scout Cookie Sales

[keen23]

Jenny Lawson aka The Bloggess has written a very well thought out post about Girl Scout Cookie sales.

http://thebloggess.com/2014/12/an-open- ... rl-scouts/

She raises some very excellent points and asks questions about just how the finances are being handled. I was a Girl Scout for 12 years. My kids did it for 4 years. I was a leader for two years. The local Troops see very little of the actual cookie money they raise. Council and National take the majority of the money and offer Troops very little in return. I used to love Girl Scouts. I still love their inclusive message. But, I hate what they're becoming and I think they're seriously mismanaging their finances.

[DGayle]

The ABC Bakery makes out like bandits. Girl Scouts get a measly quarter per box. It's not even as much as Jenny thinks. It does to the central organization, and gets doled out from there.

What I do is buy Keebler cookies since they have some really good knock-offs for half the cost of GS cookies, and then give the troop a $5 bill on the way out and tell the adult in charge to apply it to their own expenses. That way the troop gets as much money as the organization in general would get for 20 boxes of cookies, and I save money. It's a win-win situation.

[Deist woman]

I hated every year when the schools wanted kids to sell ridiculously overpriced candy, or wrapping paper, or whatever. I felt like I was ripping off anyone that I asked to buy. So I just made a donation to the class, and they got way more that way than the pathetic little kickbacks the companies gave them. It might have caused the class to not get a pizza party for being the highest sales made, but oh well. They can eat pizza at home.

[lawfulevil]

I always get super weird looks for ranting about Girl Scout Cookies, but I think it's absolutely awful that a bunch of little girls are told to go sell overpriced cookies to pay the inflated salaries of a bunch of adults. They're told it's for troop money (bullshit) and to send underprivileged girls to camp (bullshit). Girl Scouts also claims that none of the cookie money goes to the national administration, just "licensing"... except that doesn't make any sense, because "licensing" the Girl Scout logo would be all but worthless if it didn't come with an army of poorly compensated child labor.

Reward tiers vary by Council, but I found lots of results on Google Images. I'll talk about the local result. Cookies are $5/box, and a girl who sells 275 boxes in 2015 ($1375 in product) will receive 3 patches, a "polar bear wood necklace", a plastic water bottle, a small stuffed animal, and next year's Girl Scout membership fee ($15), plus $20 in "cookie credit cards". Less than $50. 475 packages ($2375) means you get to go to the state fair and $20 more in "cookie credit cards".

Let's not even forget that only fairly well to do little girls could "achieve" this much when I was a Girl Scout (I don't know if this policy has changed), because when I was a kid they made your parents or troop write a check for all those cookies before you could get them. Then you had to pray you could hunt down the neighbors and that THEY had any money or still wanted their cookies. We had about a 66% success rate, which meant a month of miserable table sales in front of the grocery store trying to get rid of a bunch of Satan's cookies- that year's vile diet/"healthy" cookie. January meant everyone ordered the damn things but by the time the cookies actually came, treadmills were once again dusty and nobody wanted them.

Did I mention that the Girl Scouts CEO makes almost $400k/yr?

[Irish13]

GSUSA makes their money from licensing, not from girl sales. Troops get $.50 per box for cookies that are $3.50, $.60 for boxes that are $4.00. I was a troop leader for 9 years, this is the first year my daughter hasn't sold cookies.

It is absolute crap how little the girls/troop get to keep from their sales and how much goes to council. Especially since the realignment programs have been cut like crazy.

Juliette Low would be disgusted to see what GS is today, to see the property on 5th Ave, what the CEO's salary is, that the girls are now called customers.

GS was a tradition in my family, my great-grandmother, grandmother, mother, me, and my daughter were all scouts. It saddens me what it has become.

[DGayle]

I hated every year when the schools wanted kids to sell ridiculously overpriced candy, or wrapping paper, or whatever. I felt like I was ripping off anyone that I asked to buy. So I just made a donation to the class, and they got way more that way than the pathetic little kickbacks the companies gave them. It might have caused the class to not get a pizza party for being the highest sales made, but oh well. They can eat pizza at home.

Typical class has about 30 kids in it. Little Caesars pizzas are $6. With tax, it's less than $50 for 7 pizzas. Buy some store-brand soda, and you've got a class party for under $60. I'll pay for that myself.

[DGayle]

GSUSA makes their money from licensing, not from girl sales. Troops get $.50 per box for cookies that are $3.50, $.60 for boxes that are $4.00. I was a troop leader for 9 years, this is the first year my daughter hasn't sold cookies.

It is absolute crap how little the girls/troop get to keep from their sales and how much goes to council. Especially since the realignment programs have been cut like crazy.

Juliette Low would be disgusted to see what GS is today, to see the property on 5th Ave, what the CEO's salary is, that the girls are now called customers.

GS was a tradition in my family, my great-grandmother, grandmother, mother, me, and my daughter were all scouts. It saddens me what it has become.

A local troop leader I talked to said it's a quarter. I wonder if it depends on area. She said it's getting too hard to justify participating in sales anymore.

Also what happened to Daisies? We don't have Daisies in my area, at all. It's just Brownies starting in grade 1.

[DGayle]

Let's not even forget that only fairly well to do little girls could "achieve" this much when I was a Girl Scout (I don't know if this policy has changed), because when I was a kid they made your parents or troop write a check for all those cookies before you could get them.

Wow. When I was a kid, we had an order form, got orders and took the money, submitted our orders, got the cookies, and delivered them. That was in the late 80s to early 90s. We did have to prebuy the calendars though, and my parents said no way.

My troop leader was rich. So rich that she bout 5,000 boxes at $2.50 per box so her girls could both hit the top tier for boomboxes. That damaged troop morale.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Our troops got 75c a box for $4 cookies and this year the price has gone up. Cookies will now be $5 (at least in CA).

[lemonhead]

I sold GS cookies when I was a Brownie, and my daughter has sold them for the last four years. But I have become disillusioned with the process, and this is the first year she will not be selling. DD doesn't like camping, which is what our cookie sales pay for, so we're opting out going forward. She'll still participate in other GS activities.

I did coordinate the fall products sales for our troop, which I am still a big supporter of since we get to keep a much higher percentage of those proceeds. But the measly quarter for a $4 a box--what our troop leader told me, too--is ridiculous IMO.

[August]

The ABC Bakery makes out like bandits. Girl Scouts get a measly quarter per box. It's not even as much as Jenny thinks. It does to the central organization, and gets doled out from there.

What I do is buy Keebler cookies since they have some really good knock-offs for half the cost of GS cookies, and then give the troop a $5 bill on the way out and tell the adult in charge to apply it to their own expenses. That way the troop gets as much money as the organization in general would get for 20 boxes of cookies, and I save money. It's a win-win situation.

Genius. Can I steal this?

[busdrivingmom]

glad more people are complaining about this. As a former cookie mom, and a current co-leader, there is A LOT of pressure on troops to sell cookies. We quit a couple years ago, after our council demanded that they take their cookie money direct from our accounts (not deposited at their bank) and I would of had to sign a statement of responsibility that if something happened with the cookies or the money, i would be banned as a volunteer. Also that if we wanted to do booth sales we would have to take credit cards and eat the fee per charge out of our profits. It was not even that profitable for us, we only got .75/box since we opted not to take incentives. We sold maybe 1200 boxes as a troop of 18.

[PennySycamore]

A local troop leader I talked to said it's a quarter. I wonder if it depends on area. She said it's getting too hard to justify participating in sales anymore.

Also what happened to Daisies? We don't have Daisies in my area, at all. It's just Brownies starting in grade 1.

My granddaughter is in a combined Daisies/Brownies troop. There is a just-Daisies troop in her town, but the meetings are at an inconvenient time so it was the D/B troop for GD as she could make the meeting time.

busdrivingmom, I tried to volunteer for our local council with the eventual goal of becoming a leader and never heard back from them. My daughter also had difficulty in getting in touch with them to find about Daisy troops. Do you think they could use a volunteer in the Council office just to take care of their email?

OK, guys, how do we change things? It's not what it should be or what it used to be.

Penny -old Girl Scout

[Maggie Mae]

Girl Scout cookies must have changed since the 90s. When I participated, we took orders. Then the cookies came, we distributed them and collected money. My troop usually had top 10 sales in our district of area or whatever. Not that we really cared. It wasn't at all like "Troop Beverly Hills," with us selling at tables and making up songs. We just brought the forms home, our parents took them to work, and then we helped with distribution. Now I'm being harassed inside of Fred Meyer by boys and girls.

I also heard on the radio that all girls can sell online (with the exception of Alaska and Hawaii) starting this year. All inclusive? Whatever. We've been a state since 1950ish. We have the Internet and post offices.

[hahe77]

I am a girl scout leader and have 3 girls in my troop (7th graders). We didn't participate in fall product sales and gave my girls the option to not participate in cookie sales. I'm fine not selling but will if the girls want to. Not being insulted at cookie booths sounds very exciting!

As a leader, I have learned that the rules aren't followed. Complaining about bad staff members does nothing. At the council level, money goes missing all the time but that's fine. And asking questions isn't welcomed.

As a volunteer, I am made to jump through hoops for anything and everything. I have to apply to be appointed to a troop at the beginning of the year. At the end of the year, I have to do a year end interview and get told everything I didn't go good enough. I have to fill out paperwork for anything we do. I have to pay for girl scout trainings and buy trip insurance anytime we leave our meeting place. I am always told how overworked staff members are yet all I've ever seen is lazy people who pass the buck on to volunteers.

For those of you that donate to the troops instead of buying cookies, we are suppose to claim that money and council should get a cut of it. A lady I know lost her troop because she didn't claim donated money and council looked into her bank account (they have to have access to your troop account).

Product sales aren't suppose to be mandatory. But leaders will be required to explain why they didn't participate. Seems kind messed up to me.

I once took my troop to a local girl scout camp. It was run down, dirty, had broken equipment thrown out in piles and filled with wolf spider dens (one of my girls got bit and had a bad reaction). This camp is being logging out. This is typically done before the property is sold.

I stick with scouts because my daughter likes it. She has made great friends and learned skills that will last her a lifetime. This is my last year as a leader. Next year, my daughter and the other girls will be Juliette's (independent girls with no troop). No paperwork to fill out, we do what we want and I can tell staff members where to stick their rules.

[hahe77]

I also heard on the radio that all girls can sell online (with the exception of Alaska and Hawaii) starting this year..

Try being the only council in the state that isn't set up to sell online. Our area will start next year while everywhere else in the state, is doing it this year.

[crawfishgirl]

It sounds like it must vary by region. I am a cookie mgr for my daughter's troop again this year, and recently took the training. In my daughter's council, the troops get 60 cents for each box sold, and they cost $4. There are no credit cards accepted at the cookie booths and the parents don't have to prepay, though we have to sign something about taking financial responsibility for the cookies that we receive (we use the order forms first, then place our troop order based on our sales). The fall product (mostly nuts) proceeds are taken directly from the troop bank account, but they aren't doing that with the cookie proceeds.

At the cookie booths, many people will just make a donation, which goes a lot further to help support the individual troops.

I think that there is too much emphasis on 'sell, sell cookies', which irks me.

I do see some local benefit from the sales. Our local council supports a number of camps, including horseback riding and sailing camps, and charges the girls a very reasonable amount to attend summer camp for a week - about half the price of other summer camps in the area. A couple of years ago I sent my older daughter to a horse camp for a week for under $400, which I thought was a good value. They also provide camp scholarships for lower-income girls, which is good. So even though I think the sales process/salaries, etc., could be improved upon, I do see benefit for the kids.

[keen23]

I was the Cookie Mom for 3 of the 4 years my kids were in a Troop. The first two years, we did traditional pre-sales- i.e. took the orders ahead of time, and delivered cookies about a month later and collected the money. The third year (my last year, and probably the main reason why I quit) we had to pre-order all cookies- estimating what we thought the girls would sell on their own PLUS all of our booth sales. And, booth sales aren't given out exactly fairly. The bigger, more connected Troops got a head start and were able to book the more lucrative booth spots before they were opened up to the rest of the Troops. We got stuck with Walmart on Sundays from 8 AM to 11 AM. When it turned out we were totally off on our counts, our local Council was unable/unwilling to buy back the extra cookies while at the same time pushing for more sales offering an "extra" 2% to the Troops. 2%= $.08 per box extra to the Troop- but only if you sold 25% more than last year and had 100% participation online. We wound up as a Troop having to eat the cost of 15 extra cases, and we weren't even the worst off- a bigger Troop in the area agreed to help local Council and then they backed out, holding her accountable for the extra 100 cases she had taken on consignment from them.

[FaustianSlip]

Girl Scout cookies must have changed since the 90s. When I participated, we took orders. Then the cookies came, we distributed them and collected money. My troop usually had top 10 sales in our district of area or whatever. Not that we really cared. It wasn't at all like "Troop Beverly Hills," with us selling at tables and making up songs. We just brought the forms home, our parents took them to work, and then we helped with distribution. Now I'm being harassed inside of Fred Meyer by boys and girls.

This was how it worked when I was a kid, too. You went door to door selling or your parents brought your sheet in to work or whatever, and everyone put in an order for however many boxes they wanted. At a certain deadline, you turned in the order form. A month or two later, the troop leader would go to the "cookie mom," who had received all of the cookies for the council, and pick up the boxes for everyone's orders. Those would be distributed to each girl at the next meeting, who would then go and take them to their customers, who would pay upon receiving the cookies. If people had changed their minds and no longer wanted what they'd ordered, the cookies would then be returned to either the troop or the cookie mother. If the troop kept them, we'd usually be able to sell them to someone else who wanted a box or two and didn't get to order initially, or I think the council could send leftovers back to the supplier at no charge.

The sales process seems to have changed vastly since I was a kid; the focus now seems to be on setting up tables outside of shopping centers and doing away with the door to door aspect of selling. We definitely weren't preordering our cookies, and there was really no such thing as "booth sales" fifteen or twenty years ago. I'm not sure what's caused all of the changes, but it's disappointing. That said, if GS-USA owes people pension money, they don't have a choice about paying it- they're legally obligated, so as disheartening as it is, it's not entirely surprising to me that they may be funding that stuff first.

I will say that cookie sales were always my troop's biggest moneymaker- we funded most of our activities through them, including a big, out-of-state trip to Gettysburg and Hershey. I think we were making around fifty cents a box, but I'd have to ask my mom, since she was the troop leader at the time. It was definitely more than a quarter a box, though.

[PennySycamore]

I did a quick check on both Guidestar and Charity Navigator for the ratings of Girl Scouts of America. Charity Navigator gives it 4 stars while Guidestar gives it 3. The reviews on Guidestar are interesting, though. Not only are the initial comments good but so are the suggestions for improvement.

http://greatnonprofits.org/whitelabel/r ... _id-272813

What may be at the root for some of the troubles at Girl Scouts-USA may be its rumored involvement with the Chaordic Alliance. La Leche League International tried to reorganize chaordically, but, in doing so, alienated many, many Leaders and devastated many Areas and Regions financially. (Areas in the US are roughly equivalent to states.) Some of us disenchanted Leaders felt we had no choice but to offer our support to breastfeeding mothers elsewhere. (I was one of those LLLLs.) It is ironic that something that purported to give the local Leader more voice in how things were run did just the opposite. We were told over and over that "You just had to be there" (at the Chaordic meetings) when we confronted the Board and other Chaordic supporters about the obfuscating language of Chaordic. Didn't we used to say that about our experiences while stoned? I don't know the way out for either the GS-USA or LLLI, but I still hold out hope for the GS-USA.

[mirele]

I'm just going to say that I sold GS cookies back in the 1960s *door to door*. And my mom was cookie chairman. Man I hated selling cookies. I made my younger sister sell the cookies.

[descovy]

Well,I haven't drank all the GS kool-aid, but I have been a GS leader & cookie manager for 8 years and currently am my service unit cookie manager.

In my area, I find it to be a pretty good deal. We sell ABC cookies for $4/box and troops get 60c. About a dollar goes to ABC bakery, and the rest stay in our council.

I lead two troops. I've had my 9th graders since '07 and my 5th graders since '09. Our troops are pretty much self funded by cookie & fall product sales. On average we net $900-1200/troop at cookie season, even while getting 60c a box. And we are a pretty average troop... not super sellers.

This $1200 covers our patches, supplies, most of our field trips, even our service projects. We aren't taking the troop to Disney World, but we're doing pretty good. Our parents only pay for uniforms and books.

So what about that $2.40 that goes to council? Well, we have 7 camps. Everything from tent camping to cabin/dorms. Horseback riding, sailing, archery, zip lining. We even have a beach house. It's rustic, but it's at the beach! If I want to take my troop camping, we pay $30 a night for the whole group. Imagine taking a dozen teenagers to the beach for the weekend for $60? Those properties are all funded/maintained by cookie money. Neither of my troops are interested in the sailing or the horseback riding programs, but they too are affordable. I have hired an archery instructor while camping for $6/pp. Council also puts on badge programs, and activities for your girls. All for a reasonable fee.

It's a great deal if a troop chooses to take advantage of the resources in our council... resources funded by cookie money. Like I say, my troops are self supported by a measly 60c a box. It wouldn't work if we insisted on amusement parks, but it is possible.

Three of our camp properties offer weekly summer camp (including the property with the sailboats, and the property with the horses) Most camp choices are sub $400/week for a girl. If I can give some perspective on this, I send my kids to church camp for $400/week, and it is heavily subsidized by my church synod, fundraisers and large donors. Girl Scout camp costs the same $400 but is subsidized by cookie sales. To add another perspective, another camp that is very popular in my area is non-denominational camp (not subsidized by much of anything) so they charge the "true price" of a week of camp... $1050! Yes, it takes about $1050/child to run a good summer camp! And GS charges $400.

I can't speak for your council and what they have to offer. I can only speak for my own area. But I will tell you this, I don't think most these troops (in my area) need much more than $.60/box. Personally I find it cringe worthy to hear of a Brownie troop going to Disney World. If you use the resources around you, $.60 can be a nice figure for a group of girls. The ones in my area complaining about the $.60 are usually the ones buying everything new and full retail (instead of borrowing) and never going to council events, where they can share in the bounty with all GS.

[salsa]

Well,I haven't drank all the GS kool-aid, but I have been a GS leader & cookie manager for 8 years and currently am my service unit cookie manager.

In my area, I find it to be a pretty good deal. We sell ABC cookies for $4/box and troops get 60c. About a dollar goes to ABC bakery, and the rest stay in our council.

I lead two troops. I've had my 9th graders since '07 and my 5th graders since '09. Our troops are pretty much self funded by cookie & fall product sales. On average we net $900-1200/troop at cookie season, even while getting 60c a box. And we are a pretty average troop... not super sellers.

This $1200 covers our patches, supplies, most of our field trips, even our service projects. We aren't taking the troop to Disney World, but we're doing pretty good. Our parents only pay for uniforms and books.

So what about that $2.40 that goes to council? Well, we have 7 camps. Everything from tent camping to cabin/dorms. Horseback riding, sailing, archery, zip lining. We even have a beach house. It's rustic, but it's at the beach! If I want to take my troop camping, we pay $30 a night for the whole group. Imagine taking a dozen teenagers to the beach for the weekend for $60? Those properties are all funded/maintained by cookie money. Neither of my troops are interested in the sailing or the horseback riding programs, but they too are affordable. I have hired an archery instructor while camping for $6/pp. Council also puts on badge programs, and activities for your girls. All for a reasonable fee.

It's a great deal if a troop chooses to take advantage of the resources in our council... resources funded by cookie money. Like I say, my troops are self supported by a measly 60c a box. It wouldn't work if we insisted on amusement parks, but it is possible.

Three of our camp properties offer weekly summer camp (including the property with the sailboats, and the property with the horses) Most camp choices are sub $400/week for a girl. If I can give some perspective on this, I send my kids to church camp for $400/week, and it is heavily subsidized by my church synod, fundraisers and large donors. Girl Scout camp costs the same $400 but is subsidized by cookie sales. To add another perspective, another camp that is very popular in my area is non-denominational camp (not subsidized by much of anything) so they charge the "true price" of a week of camp... $1050! Yes, it takes about $1050/child to run a good summer camp! And GS charges $400.

I can't speak for your council and what they have to offer. I can only speak for my own area. But I will tell you this, I don't think most these troops (in my area) need much more than $.60/box. Personally I find it cringe worthy to hear of a Brownie troop going to Disney World. If you use the resources around you, $.60 can be a nice figure for a group of girls. The ones in my area complaining about the $.60 are usually the ones buying everything new and full retail (instead of borrowing) and never going to council events, where they can share in the bounty with all GS.

Thank you for posting this. I don't know about the CEO's salary, but while it's disappointing that troops only keep less than a dollar per box, I know girls who have been able to attend a week-long Girl Scout Camp because of the scholarships offered through the council. The camps also have to be maintained and staffed, as do the outreach people. My daughter's troop went to the Juliette Lowe house in Savannah and chose special lessons-events (such as at a local horse stable) to earn badges.

Our service unit did not get United Way funds because they said that the area was too wealthy, demographically. In our service unit, we found this incredible - there were a lot of impoverished children in our area even though the overall statistics for that county indicated a very wealthy county. Having the funds help the council and service unit helped some of these girls participate in scouts.

I'm not saying that there are not good arguments against cookie sales, but the girls know they are selling cookies for the service unit, council, and GSA to help other girl scouts in need - one of the promises of GSA is "to be a sister to every other Girl Scout." This is one way to participate in that.

Just one mom's perspective

[salsa]

I was the Cookie Mom for 3 of the 4 years my kids were in a Troop. The first two years, we did traditional pre-sales- i.e. took the orders ahead of time, and delivered cookies about a month later and collected the money. The third year (my last year, and probably the main reason why I quit) we had to pre-order all cookies- estimating what we thought the girls would sell on their own PLUS all of our booth sales. And, booth sales aren't given out exactly fairly. The bigger, more connected Troops got a head start and were able to book the more lucrative booth spots before they were opened up to the rest of the Troops. We got stuck with Walmart on Sundays from 8 AM to 11 AM. When it turned out we were totally off on our counts, our local Council was unable/unwilling to buy back the extra cookies while at the same time pushing for more sales offering an "extra" 2% to the Troops. 2%= $.08 per box extra to the Troop- but only if you sold 25% more than last year and had 100% participation online. We wound up as a Troop having to eat the cost of 15 extra cases, and we weren't even the worst off- a bigger Troop in the area agreed to help local Council and then they backed out, holding her accountable for the extra 100 cases she had taken on consignment from them.

Our council had strict rules against doing this.

[PennySycamore]

From what I saw on Charity Navigator, the former CEO made a salary of about $800K/ year where the current CEO pulls in less than $200K. If that's true, that's a change for the better.