Chucking College

[Columbia]

chuckingcollege.com/Home.html

For the returning SAHD in your life who has realized how disastrous a college education will be to her faith.

Many young ladies are finding that college is devastating their faith, fidelity, and finances.

But what higher education is better than college? Is it even possible to attain success without a college degree?

Chucking College is a book that breaks implied boundaries, cultural stereotypes and ivory-tower strongholds of thought that have until now been untouchable. Refreshingly daring conclusions reveal how to become successful without the corruption of the college environment. Discover how to respond positively to negative comments and pressure from those who insist college is the only way to success.

This is the author's home-based business:

lifegivinglinen.com/

And an interview about just why she chose to "chuck college:"

homeschoolauthors.blogspot.com/2013/07/interview-with-melanie-ellison.html

After a year of college (complete with a nearly full-ride tuition scholarship and making the Dean's List by the end of the year), I realized that my faith was being eroded, even though I attended a "Christian" private college. Required Bible classes tore down the authority of Scripture, and the college culture assumed that one could not be educated in the true sense of the word and believe in absolute truth at the same time.

I'd love to know what this "Christian" private college was, and how it so devastated her faith.

Chucking College is an engaging resource for Christian young adults, parents, and grandparents. Written specifically for young ladies, it delves into vocations that are ideal for daughters of the King, what to do about getting an MRS degree without college, and more.

Bolding mine.

Edited for links. Sorry.

[salex]

What the everloving fuck?

from her home business page

Linen is an extraordinary fabric that has been scientifically determined to possess healing properties. Linen has a signature frequency of 5,000. In comparison, the signature frequency of a healthy human is 100. Synthetic fabrics such as polyester (at 15) drain the body of energy with their low frequencies. Because the frequency of linen is so high, it supercharges the body with energy to heal and maintain health.

:roll:

Not sure what she was learning at college but ... whatever.

I guess Linen, essential oils and prayer are all the medicine a person will ever really need!

[BrownieMomma]

Maybe I am just imposing my own experience with this line of thought, but I think it is a good thing for people to question their faith.

But I guess if the real goal is conservative take-over, then people who truly come to faith are not needed, just robotic, controlled voters.

[Columbia]

What the everloving fuck?

from her home business page

:roll:

Not sure what she was learning at college but ... whatever.

I guess Linen, essential oils and prayer are all the medicine a person will ever really need!

Apparently "linen is teh holiest fabric evar!" is a big thing in "Torah-Observant" circles:

new2torah.com/2011/11/the-power-of-linen/

shop.kingdompaths.com/

wisdomintorah.com/the-healing-power-of-linen/

[Reverend Ladypants]

Lunacy.

Also so glad my fundie-ism was challenged in college. I'm not who I was! Praise!

[fun2beme]

I agree about it being good to question one's faith. And if this woman was so steadfast in her beliefs, why would going to college change that? Couldn't she do her own Bible study and pick out the parts she agreed with, and overlook the parts she didn't like that her class probably taught?

[usmcmom]

I agree about it being good to question one's faith. And if this woman was so steadfast in her beliefs, why would going to college change that? Couldn't she do her own Bible study and pick out the parts she agreed with, and overlook the parts she didn't like that her class probably taught?

Agreed. I think when these people say their faith was eroded, what they really mean is "I learned things that weren't exactly what my daddy taught me and that scared me a little bit." They are cowards. They have such little confidence in their belief system and their own self control, they CAN'T stray far from their parents for fear they won't handle the independence in a "Godly" way.

My daughter is now a conservative Christian college )the same one I attended) and every now and then she'll tell me something about a professor that she disagrees with (usually a Bible professor). I am always glad when she thinks for herself and I remind her these teachers are just fallible men and women like we are; she is free to draw her own conclusions and build her own faith.

I really am disgusted by fundies who, evidently, did such a lousy job raising their kids that said kids can't be trusted to enter the world and be decent people.

[FloraKitty35]

What the everloving fuck?

from her home business page

:roll:

Not sure what she was learning at college but ... whatever.

I guess Linen, essential oils and prayer are all the medicine a person will ever really need!

That little blurb from her home business page means only one thing: my bullshit detector is still working.

[Peas n carrots]

Linen? Da Fuq?

Apparently college did not teach her the difference between science and woo.

[salex]

Oh, please. This girl. The linen thing seems to me to be the Pyramid Scheme of the Month and she is hitting all the check marks of fundie anti intellectualism.

She is loved by the Ladies Against Feminism crew and has book recommendations by that mental powerhouse Kevin Swanson. She says on one site that it is silly to study business because all that it takes to become a business owner is 1) find a good/service people want and 2) provide that good or service for a lower cost than others do and 3 ta-da-- you are a small business owner without the silly classes.

She even points out that while boys and men might read her book, she is not trying to teach men or boys because that would be against Titus 2. :angry-banghead:

She talks about wasting time and taking out loans and how minimum wage job through college would more than make up for the wasted years of not earning while you were in college. She goes back to the Plumber Example and says

“Doing the simple math reveals that financially, one would be better off with any job, even minimum wage, or a small home business, than to face seemingly insurmountable figures of debt with the highest-paying job around. Four to eight years of saving money, living at home, and being entrepreneurially productive have proven to advance some far beyond their friends who chose the college route. After all, a plumber without a degree earns more over a lifetime than a doctor or a lawyer (when educational loans are subtracted from their lifetime income).â€

uncollege.org/losses-that-often-accompany-a-college-education/

The median salary for a plumber was $49,140 in 2012,

money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/plumber/salary and requires some cost in getting the training needed, plus, a apprentice plumber(4-5 years) does not get that high a salary. Training costs vary Typical costs:

An online training program in plumbing costs $800-$1,000. For example, Penn Foster[2] offers a plumbing technology program for $868, and Ashworth College[3] has similar coursework for about $800.

A certificate program in plumbing costs $1,250-$3,000. For example, AC/C Tech[4] in Indianapolis offers a five-course program in plumbing technology for $1,250.

An associate's degree in plumbing technology costs $3,000-$23,000. Southwestern Illinois College[5] offers an associate's degree program for $6,080 for in-district students and $23,744 for out-of-state tuition. Montana State University in Havre, MT, offers a similar program for $23,000.

Apprenticeships in plumbing cost $0-$1,000 and last 4-5 years. The Construction Industry Training Council[6] in Colorado offers plumbing apprenticeships from $710 per semester and $120 to $150 for books for the four-year program, while the Chicago Journeymen Plumbers Union[7] sponsors apprenticeships for a $620 fee to cover books.

State licensing for plumbers costs $75-$300 and lasts 1-2 years. Tennessee[8] issues a two-year plumbing license for $75. Georgia[9] 's plumbing license fee is $30 for the application and a $75 renewal fee every two years, and Alaska's fee is a $50 application and $200 license fee every two years.

Certification through the American Society of Plumbing Engineers[10] costs $300-$625 based on the individual's membership and practical work experience. Certification is voluntary in most states.[/quote /education.costhelper.com/plumbing-school.html

So, unless she is of the Steve Maxwell "no experience needed" plumbing world, she is either purposely lying OR ill informed.

Assuming 20 years after graduation from HS. Plumber has 2 year degree and the highest number of 23K in education costs. So, say 18 years of earning 50 K is 900,000, less 23K for the education costs and you have 877000 over 20 years.

Physician has 8 year degree and the high debt she named was $160K. So, 12 years of earning the average physician income of $189,000 is 2,268,000, less 160K and you have $2,108,000.

I know, interest, other costs, etc, but really? These are the averages, so individual milage will vary. But I'm not being any more simplistic than she is.

I just find the anti-intellectualism of so many people, not just fundies, is annoying.

Why could her faith not stand up to another believer telling her the history of the Bible? Why is learning something different or new or maybe even true when you learned a legend a bad thing? If your belief can't stand others (or yourself) questioning it, is it the right belief?

IT is too bad she is making money on this book, because the people who follow her advice likely won't have income from a book on how to be a drop out, but what else are Quiverfull and Patriarchal families going to do? I knew people in the 70s who didn't send their daughters to college because they were just girls, so that seems the plan for the patriarchs. Even if they wanted to, could even the Duggars afford to send all their kids to school-- assuming they could get good enough scores after their homeschooling? Can we imagine the Rodrigues family sending their kids off the State University? (Even with loans?) Is their schooling good enough?

And, as a disclaimer, my homeschooling cousins sent or are sending each of their 5 kids (boys and girls) to college at a state university and some of them have advanced degrees, so I"m not dogging on homeschooling, just on the anti-education homeschoolers.

To see a bit of her writing go to amazon amazon.com/Chucking-College-Achieving-Success-Corruption-ebook/dp/B00BO0K4TC

[Howl]

Halfway through reading

new2torah.com/2011/11/the-power-of-linen/

I thought WOW, linen goes all the way up to 11!

And yes, you'll feel like you had a spinal tap after reading that Web site.

Speaking of natural fabrics, I'm guessing a serious hemp growing industry is beginning in Colorado now that pot is legal. Link to Colorado's guidelines and requirements for growing industrial hemp are here.

This book is part of a pyramid scheme that will leave the author with some $$ in her pocket, and a lot of failed home businesses for her gullible customers.

This "who needs college when you can just start a home business" drives me crazy. It isn't an either/or situation! These people can't get through to the idea that a real education that fosters a questioning mind is priceless.

I hate, hate, hate that this book will be used as an argument to keep many young women from higher education outside the home.

[Howl]

....I am always glad when she thinks for herself and I remind her these teachers are just fallible men and women like we are; she is free to draw her own conclusions and build her own faith.

I really am disgusted by fundies who, evidently, did such a lousy job raising their kids that said kids can't be trusted to enter the world and be decent people.

Yes! Just, yes, yes, yes!

[polecat]

If your faith is so weak that an education will destroy it, then maybe you need to work on THAT rather than blaming college.

Fundy college -- that exposed the reality of my family's religion better than anything else had. What *actually* strengthened my faith and help me better understand what *I* believe? A cultural anthropology class at a secular college, lol. (In fact, I took several similar classes under the same professor because I got so much out of that one class. Even though I didn't need them for my degree, I still apply the things I learned to my everyday life in so many ways to this day.)

[happy atheist]

From the "scientific" study that "proved" linen is awesome:

He had discovered that flax cloth, as suggested in the Books of Moses, acts as an antenna for the Tachyon Energy.

I've never read the bible, but maybe that's because I never knew it was science fiction. The Book of Moses talks about antennas for Tachyon energy? :shock:

lifegivinglinen.com/linen-study.html

[happy atheist]

And she sells reusable linen menstrual pads, too!

Special young ladies launched into womanhood with Pleasant Pads won't have to endure the mortification of buying disposables under other people's watchful eyes in a store!

Mortification?

[salex]

And she sells reusable linen menstrual pads, too!

Mortification?

Yes, because being a menstruating woman is dirty dirty dirty. The boys will know you are unclean not allowed around the clean menfolk. Plus, it might make people think about sex, which is the same as lusting after you and will be all your fault.

How dare anyone be a woman in public!

Or, she could buy tampons from amazon or walmart and have them delivered to her house.... so there is that.

[PennySycamore]

And she sells reusable linen menstrual pads, too!

Mortification?

She wants to talk about mortification? How about those girls in developing countries who have little access to pads? A teenage girl having her period without a pad can't go to school those days. That's a real problem! Being embarrassed going to the store is a First World problem.

[cindyluvs24]

Well, it did say she was a daughter of the King so I guess she doesn't need an education, job skills, or a LinkedIn account. My son commutes to Rutgers (or rather, I do since he doesn't have his license yet) and it is great to see all of these bright kids there studying. Yes, they may encounter hard financial times after college. Hell, I did before during and after, but it is worth it in the end. [ Now, I am going to print this out because his Spring term bill is due soon and I go apeshit over the ridiculous fees imposed]

[BrownieMomma]

This kind of thing is very close to my heart these days, and there is a particular reason why.

I have one daughter, age 14. She entered high school this fall. The state passed a new bill requiring entering high school freshmen to choose an area of study, and this program is designed for all four years of school. Students aren't college prep vs vocational vs basic education anymore. This area can only be changed once during the sophomore year.

This is the very thing that led to me FJ, coincidentally my daughter and I had watched the Duggar shows on Netflix during this time and it was eye-opening for me. I think my SBC background would be considered more fundie-lite, and the fundiest families I know can be counted on two hands. Since I wasn't gonna be drinking the Duggar kool-aid anymore, I landed here.

I felt I had to make a decision about my daughter's future and make it right now. Parents are required to sign off on this educational plan. Obviously 8th graders aren't going to really know how or what to pick, school kids have limited exposure to the real world.

So I have decided, as a Christian and as her mother, to aim her to the top of the education ladder. My rational, logical thought is that she will be better served in life if she pursues being a doctor, as she thinks she might, than if we just leave it all up to God and hope He sends a super awesomely great husband who is going to provide for Daughter the rest of her life. He didn't give her a father like that, so I will have be excused from refusing to make a plan in favor of seeing what God sends along.

We are both still Christians. She does not want to graduate high school, get married and pop out a few kids. That looks boring to her. So why should she have to do that in order to be considered a "real" Christian?

IMO the author of that book went to college and got scared. Most freshmen deal with homesickness of some degree. If she was at home going to college, she probably struggles with the logistics of going to class and having to be somewhere on someone else's time schedule. Duggar time for all (fundies at least).

The other college thread, someone posted about how college makes you think. This is a good example of that. Likely she had some professor who believes differently than she was brought up. Instead of stretching her mind and learning to defend her views and beliefs, she tucked tail and ran home to Mommy and Daddy.

Since it is not very cool or fun to admit your own shortcomings, then going to college is clearly what is at fault here.

That's a real shame. There is no telling what the world is really missing by these kids not going to college. If they end up even more fundie than their parents, well okay then. It's true and tested belief.

I think it must be so much sweeter to God when people stop blindly believing and going along, start questioning faith and God himself, and then come back to Him. But a lot of this conservative thought truly is not about pleasing God, that's the lip service. It's about raising up an army, and is that really God's plan or man's?

Two caveats: I support SAHM. I don't feel that every woman has to get out there and chuck her kid in daycare in order to have a job or career. I do think it's better for kids to have their mom full-time, at least for the first few years. Interestedly, I've been reading about moms who are taking off their kids jr/sr years of high school in order to devote time to the kid while still at home.

The second is that ofc college is not for everyone.

It's just wise for everyone to be adequately trained or taught to do some kind of work in which that person can at least support him/herself, not to mention maybe other family members. And I don't mean some pie in the sky dream that everyone can just start a small business and make a living at it.

[ViolaSebastian]

Linen is an extraordinary fabric that has been scientifically determined to possess healing properties. Linen has a signature frequency of 5,000. In comparison, the signature frequency of a healthy human is 100. Synthetic fabrics such as polyester (at 15) drain the body of energy with their low frequencies. Because the frequency of linen is so high, it supercharges the body with energy to heal and maintain health.

I guess this is the reason for the economic downturn of 1973-1975?

On another note, I work with a group of at-risk (read: poor) teenage girls. Feminine products cannot be purchased with food stamps, so these young ladies do not have the necessary products for their period. Most of them just wrap toilet paper in their underpants. And yes, folks, this is the USA, a 'first world' country.

[Columbia]

Yes, because being a menstruating woman is dirty dirty dirty. The boys will know you are unclean not allowed around the clean menfolk. Plus, it might make people think about sex, which is the same as lusting after you and will be all your fault.

How dare anyone be a woman in public!

Or, she could buy tampons from amazon or walmart and have them delivered to her house.... so there is that.

Yeah, but will Amazon monogram her pads? I didn't think so.

lifegivinglinen.com/accessories.html

On a related note, she sells linen "toilet paper."

lifegivinglinen.com/organic-linen-tp.html

Approximately 7" square. Off-white. Edges are professionally serged in your choice of colors. Pick a different color for each member of the family

Ick. I actually like doing laundry. Somehow I think washing people's pads and toilet linen would cure me of that.

[BrownieMomma]

I saw this on Extreme Cheapskates, some woman cutting up fabric for reuseable toilet paper, which was put into a small garbage pail near the toilet.

The ew, the smell, the ick of touching something you know what it was used for.. can't see how this is really saving money, as you've to take special care of it after it is used and before it is washed, then it's got to be washed in hot with bleach... oh yuck sorry that is just one thing I would not be able to willingly do - reuse fabric toilet paper.

[polecat]

Yeah, but will Amazon monogram her pads? I didn't think so.

lifegivinglinen.com/accessories.html

On a related note, she sells linen "toilet paper."

lifegivinglinen.com/organic-linen-tp.html

Ick. I actually like doing laundry. Somehow I think washing people's pads and toilet linen would cure me of that.

I've known uber-crunchy people who used cloth TP. It was not something I could stomach even though I used cloth diapers (same thing, but baby poop somehow isn't nearly as gag-inducing as husband poop) and even cloth pads for a while. **

** I prefer tampons for lots of reasons, but seriously, cloth pads are just about the most comfortable things ever and are so superior to disposable pads that there is literally no comparison -- a nice suedecloth or crushed panne top, and you stay dry, comfy and cozy when you can't use tampons, like after birth.

[RachelB]

I've known uber-crunchy people who used cloth TP. It was not something I could stomach even though I used cloth diapers (same thing, but baby poop somehow isn't nearly as gag-inducing as husband poop) and even cloth pads for a while. **

** I prefer tampons for lots of reasons, but seriously, cloth pads are just about the most comfortable things ever and are so superior to disposable pads that there is literally no comparison -- a nice suedecloth or crushed panne top, and you stay dry, comfy and cozy when you can't use tampons, like after birth.

My body really dislikes tampons.

Disposable pads are handy for traveling, but otherwise I prefer cloth, no contest. The plastic on the disposables chafes me miserably.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Yeah, but will Amazon monogram her pads? I didn't think so.

lifegivinglinen.com/accessories.html

So wait... she's mortified at the idea of someone seeing her buy pads at the store, but if one of hers should happen to fall out of her purse, she's cool with it having her NAME ON IT?

As for the "no college" thing - I get that not all jobs require college, but it seems that most good jobs require some sort of post-highschool training, be it an apprenticeship or otherwise. So many of the fundies are looking for that perfect holy grail of being able to earn a living without ever having to be under the authority or direction of ANYONE not in their immediate family.

With no training at all one can get the usual retail and unskilled labor gigs, sure, but those jobs (1) often don't pay so well, and more importantly (2) mean you're ALWAYS working for someone else, without a lot of independent time even, so usually they won't even consider those, because again ew mixing with the great unwashed masses.