Any Fans of Q host Jian Ghomeshi?

[tropaka]

As mentioned in the Star's article, someone opened up a twitter under his teddy bear's name (the one he turns around before encounters, apparently) and accused him of abuse months ago

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/30 ... onths-ago/

[2xx1xy1JD]

He minored in women's studies. He was elected Student Council President at York University with the help of support from the Women's Centre on campus.

http://www.macleans.ca/education/uniand ... -students/

Think about the implications of this.

This isn't about a guy that was never taught about boundaries, or how sexism and violence affects women. He studied that stuff! He came across as a progressive activist and ally.

It was under his student government that the student calendar - previously a fairly boring agenda - suddenly started to give very specific information about birth control and abortion access, and to publish full-page pieces on "why I'm a part of the women's liberation movement".

Previously, I was critical of those who feared that men who got really involved in things like the white ribbon campaign against male violence could be a danger. Now, I wonder if he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Firiel]

He minored in women's studies. He was elected Student Council President at York University with the help of support from the Women's Centre on campus.

http://www.macleans.ca/education/uniand ... -students/

Think about the implications of this.

This isn't about a guy that was never taught about boundaries, or how sexism and violence affects women. He studied that stuff! He came across as a progressive activist and ally.

It was under his student government that the student calendar - previously a fairly boring agenda - suddenly started to give very specific information about birth control and abortion access, and to publish full-page pieces on "why I'm a part of the women's liberation movement".

Previously, I was critical of those who feared that men who got really involved in things like the white ribbon campaign against male violence could be a danger. Now, I wonder if he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Wow, that's scary.

You know, there's a progressive theologian (pro-gay rights, pro-more women in church leadership, pro-all the right stuff) who is kind of in the same boat. He's all for the right things on paper, but when you read the way he responds to women and minorities on his blog, it's pretty clear he doesn't value their experiences. And when people call him out on it, he whines and acts like he's the victim. His ex-wife has spoken out about the abuse she experienced while married to him, and he uses his position and influence to silence her.

Essentially, he's using progressive thought as a platform to power and prestige. Sounds like this asshole did some of that as well. It's a good reminder that someone's stated goals/beliefs really don't give a good picture of a person.

[Vivi_music]

This is a really baffling case. Even I knew who Jian Ghomeshi was. (Sorry, it's just funny because I rarely watch CBC in English.) It just goes to prove how popular he was.

The only thing that I wonder is (because I haven't read everything on the subject, so maybe someone can enlight me), did the CBC talk about why he was fired? Did they ever mention the sexual harassment or the BDSM? Because if the CBC didn't hint a word about it, then Ghomeshi really shot himself in the foot with this FB post. For the moment it's a bit hard to really judge what this is all about. I read a columnist in the Montreal newspaper ''La Presse'' who said that we clearly don't know everything about this case right now. I'm sure it was much more than the CBC is letting in on or that Ghomeshi is willing to talk about. Or not. We will see. :think:

[tropaka]

This is a really baffling case. Even I knew who Jian Ghomeshi was. (Sorry, it's just funny because I rarely watch CBC in English.) It just goes to prove how popular he was.

The only thing that I wonder is (because I haven't read everything on the subject, so maybe someone can enlight me), did the CBC talk about why he was fired? Did they ever mention the sexual harassment or the BDSM? Because if the CBC didn't hint a word about it, then Ghomeshi really shot himself in the foot with this FB post. For the moment it's a bit hard to really judge what this is all about. I read a columnist in the Montreal newspaper ''La Presse'' who said that we clearly don't know everything about this case right now. I'm sure it was much more than the CBC is letting in on or that Ghomeshi is willing to talk about. Or not. We will see. :think:

The CBC announced that it had "ended it's relationship" with Ghomeshi after receiving "information". They didn't get more specific. Then Ghomeshi went off on that FB post and brought up BDSM etc - which in turn forced the Star's hand and more women to come forward.

This afternoon on one of the radio stations they mentioned that Ghomeshi, in the past, has hosted benefits for the White Ribbon Campain (men against violence against women), like this:

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/117075/ ... it-concert

[RachelB]

He minored in women's studies. He was elected Student Council President at York University with the help of support from the Women's Centre on campus.

http://www.macleans.ca/education/uniand ... -students/

Think about the implications of this.

This isn't about a guy that was never taught about boundaries, or how sexism and violence affects women. He studied that stuff! He came across as a progressive activist and ally.

It was under his student government that the student calendar - previously a fairly boring agenda - suddenly started to give very specific information about birth control and abortion access, and to publish full-page pieces on "why I'm a part of the women's liberation movement".

Previously, I was critical of those who feared that men who got really involved in things like the white ribbon campaign against male violence could be a danger. Now, I wonder if he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Yup. That was one of the things I liked about him. :(

[tropaka]

The Globe and Mail has put out an extensive story today:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... 98/?page=1

Of note, he ruled Q with an iron fist, often weeding out senior producers and using young contract staffers. Those great opening essays - 95% NOT written by him. When a former staffer was asked how he could put forward feminist/progressive views while allegedly being a violent sex offender behind closed doors:

Her response was simple: He was often “reading other people’s words.â€

When it came down to the firing, sources say Ghomeshi put forward texts, emails and photos (!) in a meeting and was unanimously fired; the source saying the material presented did not jibe with what he'd earlier told the CBC.

[tropaka]

Okay, good news, the Toronto Police are investigating. For US this is kind of like Conan O'Brien being discovered as some sadistic predator.

[2xx1xy1JD]

3 women have come forward and been interviewed by police.

Police are also trying to get the "graphic evidence" that was shown to the CBC. My mom wondered if there was a camera hidden in Big Ears Teddy.

He's also been dropped by his PR agencies.

Despite a lot of initial criticism, this seems to be a case where investigative journalism worked. Each woman, individually, wasn't prepared to go to the police and risk a he said/she said case against a prominent figure. Now that he's no longer in that position, and it's clear that many women were victims over many years, it's shaping up to be a criminal case. I wonder if we'll see more situations like this in the future?

[laura oz]

I was reading about the allegations against Bill Cosby and this story was linked so I clicked. This man is incredibly disturbing. After reading his long time friend's opinion of the women's claims and the article mentioned earlier in this thread, I was just horrified for those women. He truly is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The damn teddy bear thing freaked me out but it never occurred to me that he might have had a camera in there. I was talking with a friend who dabbles in the swinging lifestyle and dabbles in organized BDSM ( its amazing what you learn when Facebook lists pages for you to like based on what your friends like!) and he said the behavior I described would have been unacceptable in the circles he moves in. I dont know for sure if he did or did not do what he's being accused of, but one thing I know for sure is that his public image is fucked.

[Bluenoser]

Unpopular opinion alert!

I disagree with the social justice that played out. No one is crying for Jian, but I worry that this sets a precident where you only need to be accused of a crime to be found guilty. Of course the public is always going to have an opinion, but Jian's been crucified without a trial. He's ruined. No vindictive person will ever use this scenario to their advantage? I'm all for justice, but what happens when an innocent person takes the fall.

I believe there might be a glimmer of good in all this. I hope this lessens the taboo and opens the door for women and men to feel safe and validated enough to report assalt and rape cases. Rape and assalt are wrong, but so is not reporting them. Help build a profile on these assholes, you really can have an effect.

[tropaka]

Fortunately, 3 women have filed complaints with the police, so it will be investigated. In the meantime we now have tales of RAs at York warning female students about Ghomeshi and a journalism prof and former student at UWO claiming interns were warned away from Q because of his sliminess. Yes, innocent until proven guilty, but that's a court of law and it seems his behaviour was an open secret for some time. One man's word against what seems to be almost a dozen people at this point, I'm going with the victims/witnesses:

https://twitter.com/ohegarty/status/528 ... 44/photo/1

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/11 ... essor.html

[Firiel]

Unpopular opinion alert!

I disagree with the social justice that played out. No one is crying for Jian, but I worry that this sets a precident where you only need to be accused of a crime to be found guilty. Of course the public is always going to have an opinion, but Jian's been crucified without a trial. He's ruined. No vindictive person will ever use this scenario to their advantage? I'm all for justice, but what happens when an innocent person takes the fall.

I believe there might be a glimmer of good in all this. I hope this lessens the taboo and opens the door for women and men to feel safe and validated enough to report assalt and rape cases. Rape and assalt are wrong, but so is not reporting them. Help build a profile on these assholes, you really can have an effect.

Note that I say this as someone who has had false accusations tossed around at the hand of an ex, though not being famous in the least, it was only around my social circle.

Regarding the bolded: I think this situation would have played out VERY differently had there been only one woman involved. Additionally, if there hadn't been the underlying knowledge that he was shady with women, even the first accusation may have been received differently. I don't think that he would have been crucified by the court of public opinion if there hadn't been multiple accusations and the understanding amongst his colleagues that there was something off with the way he treated women.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This goes back to 1988? That's crazy.

He was elected president of the York Federation of Students after that - again, with the support of the campus progressives including the women's centre.

[nomoxian]

I had no idea who he was until last Sunday, but I'm not into popular/indie music and haven't had a television in years.

When I first heard this, I did think it was a jilted exlover... but for so many people who are unrelated to come forward? And that Bigearsteddy Twitter account from ages ago? Something is fishy there!

Potential TMI / BDSM talk:

When it comes to BDSM, a safeword is necessary! Preferably two, with one meaning ''slow down' and the other meaning '''full stop'' Also, I have been to events where people wear masks, or more closed parties where it's mutual friends. There are many high profile people who are active in the fetish scene, and people in the community are respectful of each others privacy - I mean, to even tell someone that so-and-so was at an event, you need to out yourself.

[RachelB]

Note that I say this as someone who has had false accusations tossed around at the hand of an ex, though not being famous in the least, it was only around my social circle.

Regarding the bolded: I think this situation would have played out VERY differently had there been only one woman involved. Additionally, if there hadn't been the underlying knowledge that he was shady with women, even the first accusation may have been received differently. I don't think that he would have been crucified by the court of public opinion if there hadn't been multiple accusations and the understanding amongst his colleagues that there was something off with the way he treated women.

Re: the bolded, if you haven't heard it, there is this podcast, in which a CBC employee being interviewed describes one of the sexually harass-y events that happened at work, which he witnessed, and explains why he didn't initially talk to HR:

canadalandshow.com/podcast/we-all-knew-about-jian

It is worth listening to the whole thing if you can spare the time. The podcaster points out that JG's TMI post on Facebook was posted in reaction to hearing said podcaster say, "I have a big story about to break," and assuming it was about himself. It wasn't.

He is not acting in the way consistent with being at peace with his own actions.

[tropaka]

A former male colleague from York has now claimed Ghomeshi grabbed/fondled him.

The Jesse Brown is the journalist who brought the story to the Star and who made the above podcast. He ominously tweeted last night that people should be wary if CBC claims knowledge of Ghomeshi's behaviour stopped at Q.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014 ... _days.html

Watch the video that plays at the Star, it also mentions students being warned.

https://twitter.com/JesseBrown/status/5 ... 9929996290

[2xx1xy1JD]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I've noticed that one woman who served on the York Federation of Students with Jian has been retweeting some of the negative tweets, but so far hasn't contributed her own original tweets.

It was infuriating to read that Ghomeshi's initial response to his employee defending himself from sexual molestation was to accuse him of violent homophobia. Like I said, he traveled in very progressive circles, and that was a considered a huge insult in that crowd. He co-opted the progressive language and causes, and used it as an excuse for predatory behavior. It's the same pattern as his Facebook post claiming that his firing was about the CBC violating his human rights by discriminating against him based on his sexual preferences. React with outrage, and hide the fact that the issue was actually doing aggressive stuff to people without consent, esp. when he was in a power of relative power.

Re investigative journalism and the police:

I do understand the risks of allegations being determined in the media via anonymous reports, and not through the courts. Oddly enough, I was at the wedding on someone who had served time in jail after being wrongly accused of murder, when I read the Facebook post.

In this situation, though, the journalism aspect seems to be working well with the police aspect.

With sexual assault, police don't initiate investigations without someone coming forward with a complaint, and you can't come forward anonymously. Investigative journalists have more of an ability to look into whispers and talk to sources without identifying them. They can slowly work a story. If something involves someone high-profile, or if the people involved would be too vulnerable to ever make a report, they can get a story to the point that it can see the light of day. Please note - I'm talking about reputable investigative journalism, not gossip magazines. When it comes to investigative journalism, the Toronto Star has an impressive record, and it's not just about celebrity scandals. We also see this pattern were it's not just one article - on big issues, there is a chain effect where someone's reaction and other people's actions then become part of the story. That was certainly the case with Rob Ford.

The Toronto police were following the media coverage, and it prompted the police chief to issue a public call for victims to come forward.

One of the victims who came forward credited the chief's call with her decision. She hadn't previously known that she could report an incident that was 10 years old, nor that her identity would be protected.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/11/04/ch ... shi-report

I was happy to see this article, because one fear of mine was that all of the attention on the reasons that women don't report could lead to a negative cycle where other women are persuaded not to make reports. It's good to see a positive story, where a victim says that she was treated well by police and that some of her fears weren't warranted. Perhaps police can take note, make sure that all women are treated as well, and proactively give information on making reports to the public to clear up misinformation.

[tropaka]

heard a lawyer discussing the need for complaints to investigate and calling it bs, along with the whole "we can't comment on a case before the courts" (which is commonly used). However, Blair couldn't initiate an investigation just going on anonymous sources and so encouraged complainants to come forward.

Brown tweeted yesterday that he had so many new accusers/info coming forward that he needed the aid of other reporters and a news outlet to investigate them properly. Shit, when you have to set up a database for complaints about one person...

[2xx1xy1JD]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I was reading some more articles and talking about this with my parents and sister last night.

I haven't read his memoir, 1982, but I did read a bunch of reviews.

A lot of it seems to be about how Thornhill was so suburban and white, and how he felt alienated as a brown kid.

Now, I didn't know him in 1982 - I only started Thornlea in 1985. I also don't want to come across as negating anyone else's experiences with racism (even if it comes from a creep), and I do realize that I would have experienced things differently as someone who was part of the majority group.

That said - I'm seeing some of this memoir with new eyes, given the allegations that this guy is so narcissistic and disturbed.

Thornhill was a lot less multicultural in the 1980s (his area has actually becoming VERY Persian), but I was going through the Thornlea year book for 1985-86. The school was far from all-white. He was certainly not the only brown kid.

Thornhill was a bit of a suburban hell for a cool kid, but the high school was a bit of a hippie/alternative haven.

By the time I arrived at the school, he was basically considered God. President of the student council. Helped organize the fashion show. Did the morning announcements, and quoted The Doors instead of the Bible for the Thought of the Day. Even had a new-wave band called Tall New Buildings, and the total 1980s new wave hair.

I wonder if this is just a difference of timeline, or if he tended to see himself as a picked-on victim while being blind to reality?

[Firiel]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I was reading some more articles and talking about this with my parents and sister last night.

I haven't read his memoir, 1982, but I did read a bunch of reviews.

A lot of it seems to be about how Thornhill was so suburban and white, and how he felt alienated as a brown kid.

Now, I didn't know him in 1982 - I only started Thornlea in 1985. I also don't want to come across as negating anyone else's experiences with racism (even if it comes from a creep), and I do realize that I would have experienced things differently as someone who was part of the majority group.

That said - I'm seeing some of this memoir with new eyes, given the allegations that this guy is so narcissistic and disturbed.

Thornhill was a lot less multicultural in the 1980s (his area has actually becoming VERY Persian), but I was going through the Thornlea year book for 1985-86. The school was far from all-white. He was certainly not the only brown kid.

Thornhill was a bit of a suburban hell for a cool kid, but the high school was a bit of a hippie/alternative haven.

By the time I arrived at the school, he was basically considered God. President of the student council. Helped organize the fashion show. Did the morning announcements, and quoted The Doors instead of the Bible for the Thought of the Day. Even had a new-wave band called Tall New Buildings, and the total 1980s new wave hair.

I wonder if this is just a difference of timeline, or if he tended to see himself as a picked-on victim while being blind to reality?

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

Interesting. Seeing how he is spinning this situation, my money is on the latter.

[aquitana]

You know I went to a suburban high school, and had a brilliant black girlfriend who ended up studying finance at Princeton. She was class president too. But she very, very aware of being black and not included in certain things, and not considered the epitome of beauty at that time.

Just saying the two things are not mutually exclusive. Jian could have been exposed to slurs from some idiots, who knows.

[Vivi_music]

I don't know if any of you have seen on Twitter, the hashtag #beenrapedneverreported is actually trending. It was started by a Gazette reporter in reaction to the Gomeshi scandal and it has been growing in trend. (The French version #agressionondénoncé is also being used a lot in the last two days). I know that in Quebec, at least three important public figures have come forward, telling their story about passed sexual assault. Even though their stories are not related to the Gomeshi scandal, they wanted to break the omerta around sexual assault. It's quite touching and sad at the same time.

I also wonder what is going on at Parliament with those two Liberal MPs out of the caucus. :?

[KateFowler]

It's beyond icky that Jian Ghomeshi's been (seemingly) hiding in plain sight for decades.

I do wish the media regarding this case would separate out Ghomeshi's (1) criminal activities (assaulting women, claiming his assaults were consensual, fondling his staff, sexually harassing his staff, etc) from the (2) merely sleazy, like appearing to date "too many" "too young" (early 20s) women. The former's horrific, the latter is kind of par for the course & not illegal.

PS The Two Liberal MPs Getting Kicked Out of Caucus Incident just got a wee bit weirder:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/polit ... ice=mobile

[acheronbeach]

It's beyond icky that Jian Ghomeshi's been (seemingly) hiding in plain sight for decades.

I do wish the media regarding this case would separate out Ghomeshi's (1) criminal activities (assaulting women, claiming his assaults were consensual, fondling his staff, sexually harassing his staff, etc) from the (2) merely sleazy, like appearing to date "too many" "too young" (early 20s) women. The former's horrific, the latter is kind of par for the course & not illegal.

PS The Two Liberal MPs Getting Kicked Out of Caucus Incident just got a wee bit weirder:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/polit ... ice=mobile

Sexual harassment isn't criminal. Criminal harassment isn't the same thing.