Any Fans of Q host Jian Ghomeshi?

[tropaka]

Q is a popular culture radio show on Canada's CBC radio, also carried in the States and on satellite. It's probably the CBC's most popular show. Well, the host, Jian Ghomeshi has been let go and he is suing them for 50 mil (the announcement of the law suit came within an hour of the announcement of his firing today). Now, I didn't know whether or not to place this in the MRA section, because I'm sure they'll jump all over this. Ghomeshi's claim is that a past of rough sex with a disgruntled ex has led to a campaign of harrassment against him and that he was wrongly dismissed. His Facebook message from today, which I think is a bit too detailed:

Dear everyone,

I am writing today because I want you to be the first to know some news.

This has been the hardest time of my life. I am reeling from the loss of my father. I am in deep personal pain and worried about my mom. And now my world has been rocked by so much more.

Today, I was fired from the CBC.

For almost 8 years I have been the host of a show I co-created on CBC called Q. It has been my pride and joy. My fantastic team on Q are super-talented and have helped build something beautiful.

I have always operated on the principle of doing my best to maintain a dignity and a commitment to openness and truth, both on and off the air. I have conducted major interviews, supported Canadian talent, and spoken out loudly in my audio essays about ideas, issues, and my love for this country. All of that is available for anyone to hear or watch. I have known, of course, that not everyone always agrees with my opinions or my style, but I've never been anything but honest. I have doggedly defended the CBC and embraced public broadcasting. This is a brand I've been honoured to help grow.

All this has now changed.

Today I was fired from the company where I've been working for almost 14 years - stripped from my show, barred from the building and separated from my colleagues. I was given the choice to walk away quietly and to publicly suggest that this was my decision. But I am not going to do that. Because that would be untrue. Because I've been fired. And because I've done nothing wrong.

I've been fired from the CBC because of the risk of my private sex life being made public as a result of a campaign of false allegations pursued by a jilted ex girlfriend and a freelance writer.

As friends and family of mine, you are owed the truth.

I have commenced legal proceedings against the CBC, what's important to me is that you know what happened and why.

Forgive me if what follows may be shocking to some.

I have always been interested in a variety of activities in the bedroom but I only participate in sexual practices that are mutually agreed upon, consensual, and exciting for both partners.

About two years ago I started seeing a woman in her late 20s. Our relationship was affectionate, casual and passionate. We saw each other on and off over the period of a year and began engaging in adventurous forms of sex that included role-play, dominance and submission. We discussed our interests at length before engaging in rough sex (forms of BDSM). We talked about using safe words and regularly checked in with each other about our comfort levels. She encouraged our role-play and often was the initiator. We joked about our relations being like a mild form of Fifty Shades of Grey or a story from Lynn Coady's Giller-Prize winning book last year. I don't wish to get into any more detail because it is truly not anyone's business what two consenting adults do. I have never discussed my private life before. Sexual preferences are a human right.

Despite a strong connection between us it became clear to me that our on-and-off dating was unlikely to grow into a larger relationship and I ended things in the beginning of this year. She was upset by this and sent me messages indicating her disappointment that I would not commit to more, and her anger that I was seeing others.

After this, in the early spring there began a campaign of harassment, vengeance and demonization against me that would lead to months of anxiety.

It came to light that a woman had begun anonymously reaching out to people that I had dated (via Facebook) to tell them she had been a victim of abusive relations with me. In other words, someone was reframing what had been an ongoing consensual relationship as something nefarious. I learned - through one of my friends who got in contact with this person - that someone had rifled through my phone on one occasion and taken down the names of any woman I had seemed to have been dating in recent years. This person had begun methodically contacting them to try to build a story against me. Increasingly, female friends and ex-girlfriends of mine told me about these attempts to smear me.

Someone also began colluding with a freelance writer who was known not to be a fan of mine and, together, they set out to try to find corroborators to build a case to defame me. She found some sympathetic ears by painting herself as a victim and turned this into a campaign. The writer boldly started contacting my friends, acquaintances and even work colleagues - all of whom came to me to tell me this was happening and all of whom recognized it as a trumped up way to attack me and undermine my reputation. Everyone contacted would ask the same question, if I had engaged in non-consensual behavior why was the place to address this the media?

The writer tried to peddle the story and, at one point, a major Canadian media publication did due diligence but never printed a story. One assumes they recognized these attempts to recast my sexual behaviour were fabrications. Still, the spectre of mud being flung onto the Internet where online outrage can demonize someone before facts can refute false allegations has been what I've had to live with.

And this leads us to today and this moment. I've lived with the threat that this stuff would be thrown out there to defame me. And I would sue. But it would do the reputational damage to me it was intended to do (the ex has even tried to contact me to say that she now wishes to refute any of these categorically untrue allegations). But with me bringing it to light, in the coming days you will prospectively hear about how I engage in all kinds of unsavoury aggressive acts in the bedroom. And the implication may be made that this happens non-consensually. And that will be a lie. But it will be salacious gossip in a world driven by a hunger for "scandal". And there will be those who choose to believe it and to hate me or to laugh at me. And there will be an attempt to pile on. And there will be the claim that there are a few women involved (those who colluded with my ex) in an attempt to show a "pattern of behaviour". And it will be based in lies but damage will be done. But I am telling you this story in the hopes that the truth will, finally, conquer all.

I have been open with the CBC about this since these categorically untrue allegations ramped up. I have never believed it was anyone's business what I do in my private affairs but I wanted my bosses to be aware that this attempt to smear me was out there. CBC has been part of the team of friends and lawyers assembled to deal with this for months. On Thursday I voluntarily showed evidence that everything I have done has been consensual. I did this in good faith and because I know, as I have always known, that I have nothing to hide. This when the CBC decided to fire me.

CBC execs confirmed that the information provided showed that there was consent. In fact, they later said to me and my team that there is no question in their minds that there has always been consent. They said they're not concerned about the legal side. But then they said that this type of sexual behavior was unbecoming of a prominent host on the CBC. They said that I was being dismissed for "the risk of the perception that may come from a story that could come out." To recap, I am being fired in my prime from the show I love and built and threw myself into for years because of what I do in my private life.

Let me be the first to say that my tastes in the bedroom may not be palatable to some folks. They may be strange, enticing, weird, normal, or outright offensive to others. We all have our secret life. But that is my private life. That is my personal life. And no one, and certainly no employer, should have dominion over what people do consensually in their private life.

And so, with no formal allegations, no formal complaints, no complaints, not one, to the HR department at the CBC (they told us they'd done a thorough check and were satisfied), and no charges, I have lost my job based on a campaign of vengeance. Two weeks after the death of my beautiful father I have been fired from the CBC because of what I do in my private life.

I have loved the CBC. The Q team are the best group of people in the land. My colleagues and producers and on-air talent at the CBC are unparalleled in being some of the best in the business. I have always tried to be a good soldier and do a good job for my country. I am still in shock. But I am telling this story to you so the truth is heard. And to bring an end to the nightmare.

[Boogalou]

Just saw this on Facebook actually. It was shared three hours ago and already has more than 52,000 likes and 12,000 comments. I didn't read many of the comments but most seemed supportive. I had never heard of him or the show (I am such a bad Canadian) until I saw the post on Facebook.

It seems a bit defensive to me, and probably exactly what someone who is guilty would say. But it also seems kind of like what someone who is innocent would say. It seems a bit fishy to me, especially as I don't think the CBC would fire someone so (relatively) high profile for no real reason other than false allegations.

It seems weird too that he is bringing up his father's death. It's sad, but really not relevant to the matter.

ETA: In all the first comments only one person to mention the word rape or say anything remotely negative. I wonder if his page is deleting comments??

Interesting to see the outpouring of support for someone who has been accused of non consensual sex ( or, as we also call it, rape ). I for one will wait to hear all sides of this story before choosing sides.

I support the random commenter.

[tropaka]

His father died a few days ago and he took leave on Friday (just added for context). I really don't know what to think but I do know it's highly unlikely that the CBC would fire someone for liking rough sex.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I was surprised to see the Facebook post. I understand that he might have felt the need to go into some detail, but still TMI for my tastes. I wonder if he has any PR professionals giving him advice. He has a high enough profile that he probably could have started another show elsewhere and left his private life private.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

This also freaked me out because I went to high school with him. Not the sort of thing you expect to be reading 28 year later about a guy you once thought was cute.

[crazyforkate]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

Interesting that you knew him, 2xx1xy1JD.

It's amazing to me how many people have automatically jumped on the "Jian is innocent and persecuted" bandwagon just because of his note - some of them (in my newsfeed, anyway) educated critical thinkers who would normally believe in investigating the story further. Like you guys, I do think that the CBC wouldn't fire someone so famous based on rumour. We'll see what unfolds, I guess.

Interestingly, a lot of my more left-leaning friends have turned this into a conspiracy of some kind - it's a diabolical plan by Harper to destroy the CBC and take over the Canadian media. No, really. Can't imagine what Jian might have done to piss Stevie off.

[tropaka]

well, the Star story is out, and the allegations are disturbing:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014 ... tions.html

The women now accusing Jian Ghomeshi of violence began as his fans. Two had very similar early experiences with him. After Ghomeshi met them at public events, which he had promoted on CBC Radio, he contacted them through Facebook and asked them on dates. They eagerly accepted.

Each woman said she remembers Ghomeshi being initially sweet and flattering, then later suggesting or hinting at violent sex acts. When they failed to respond or expressed displeasure, they recalled Ghomeshi dismissing his remarks as “just fantasies,†reassuring them he wouldn’t ask them to do anything they weren’t comfortable with. The women deny that “safe words†were employed in the relationship.

In one woman’s case, she visited Ghomeshi at his Toronto home and alleges as soon as she walked into his house he suddenly struck her hard with his open hand, then continued to hit her and choked her. The woman alleges Ghomeshi repeatedly beat her about the head and choked her.

The Star’s interviews of the women were lengthy. The women, all educated and employed, said Ghomeshi’s actions shocked them.

Another woman, who described a similar alleged attack, said that in the lead-up to their date Ghomeshi “warned me he would be aggressive.â€

“I thought this meant he would want to pull my hair and have rough sex. He reassured me that I wouldn’t be forced. (Later) he attacked me. Choked me. Hit me like I didn’t know men hit women. I submitted.â€

None of the women has contacted police. When asked why by the Star, the women cited several reasons including fears that a police report would expose their names and worries that their consent or acceptance of fantasy role-play discussions in text or other messages with Ghomeshi would be used against them as evidence of consent to actual violence.

Only one of the alleged victims worked at the CBC. She never dated Ghomeshi. She alleges he approached her from behind and cupped her rear end in the Q studio, and that he quietly told her at a story meeting that he wanted to “hate f---†her.

The woman said she complained about Ghomeshi’s behaviour to her union representative, who took the complaint to a Q producer. As the woman recalls, the producer asked her “what she could do to make this a less toxic workplace†for herself. No further action was taken by the CBC, and the woman left the broadcaster shortly thereafter.

The Star presented allegations gleaned from its interviews to the CBC. Spokesman Chuck Thompson said he could not respond to any of the allegations, citing both privacy rules related to the employer-employee relationship and Ghomeshi’s intention to file a lawsuit.

Each of the women accusing Ghomeshi cite the case of Carla Ciccone as a reason why they desire anonymity. Last year Ciccone wrote an article for the website XOJane about a “bad date†with an unidentified, very popular Canadian radio host whom readers speculated to be Ghomeshi.

In the days that followed, Ciccone received hundreds of abusive messages and threats. An online video calling her a “scumbag of the Internet†has been viewed over 397,000 times. Ciccone’s claims about the behaviour during her “bad date†were far less severe than the allegations of abuse from the women now accusing Ghomeshi, who fear the online backlash could be significantly worse for them if their names were made public.

[2xx1xy1JD]

The Star reporter was also one of the reporters that broke the Rob Ford cocaine scandal.

Yes, the story is vague in some details, but The Star doesn't usually go to print with stuff like this unless they've done their homework.

It's a total red herring to say that this is about the CBC being squeamish about consensual kink. The audience is typically artsy, left-leaning and progressive. I can't see them caring about private, consensual activities between adults. The problem is that you've got a big story in the country's largest newspaper today that this stuff was NOT totally consensual. The Supreme Court of Canada has made it clear that kink can be consensual, but that every single part must be consensual or it's sexual assault. Legally, in Canada, "consensual non-consent" does not exist, and someone needs to be able to give conscious consent and be able to revoke that consent at any point.

With the sort of furor in the NFL over domestic violence, I don't think that the CBC could have realistically kept him in place while the allegations broke.

[Bluenoser]

This will be interesting what comes of it. For some reason it was nessecary for him to give out a bunch of TMI details, obviously beating someone to the punch.

And for now, these are all allegations. People tend to decide who is guilty or innocent long before the facts are present. And people lie, they lie all the fucking time, so I'm holding off until more information comes to light. I don't think I can handle reading the comments on articles reporting this story, there will be lots of JIAN IS A PRINCE OF PERFECTION, HOW DARE YOU TARNISH HIS NAME! or that, WOMEN HAVE CLAIMED ASSAULT! THEREFORE IT IS TRUE! :roll:

[2xx1xy1JD]

The Star has explained why they have chosen to run the story now. Basically, they are doing it because of Jian's Facebook post.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/10 ... tions.html

That just makes the Facebook rant seem even more odd and counter-productive.

If he had said nothing, he could have negotiated a settlement with CBC. Since the program is syndicated elsewhere, including the United States, he could have said that he was taking a leave (after all, his father just passed away), and then announced that he was putting together a new show as a freelancer. Sure, Q could hire another on-air personality, but he was basically the show. He could have made it sound like a creative/business/lifestyle decision.

There may have been rumours, but without CBC, The Star or the women themselves making any public statements or complaints, the story would probably have died.

[Bluenoser]

He hired a PR company specializing in Career Crisis and Reputation Rebuilding, I don't think anything he has done thus far was without careful counsel.

I feel like he's pre empting something much bigger that has not been released yet in an attempt to lessen it's effect.

It's all speculation, there could be sex tapes and stuff that could be incriminating or appear that way.

[tropaka]

The sequence of events:

Ghomeshi placed on indefinite leave.

CBC announces relationship with Ghomeshi ended due to "information" received.

Ghomeshi's lawyers announce lawsuit.

Ghomeshi shows extremely bad judgement in putting out a facebook posting, which triggers:

Star coming forward with allegations that he assaulted 3 women and sexually harrassed a fourth (coworker).

If Ghomeshi had not put out that FB posting we wouldn't have been hearing any of this. He fucked himself right then and there. No PR firm (in this case Navigator - who you hire when you've really fucked up) or lawyer would advise such a thing - they'd tell you to keep your mouth shut and communicate on behalf clients. The Star and the freelancer who worked on this (Jesse Brown) were not going to publish anything because these were unproven allegations. Ghomeshi opened the door.

and yes, these are just that, allegations - but 4 women to one man who has a huge reputation/money to lose, I'm betting on the women, especially since they don't appear to be asking for money.

[Bluenoser]

4 women! I had just read about the (in his words) disgruntled ex. I wasn't sure if she is also a freelance writer, or she is working with a freelance writer. Does anyone have any info that could clear that up?

I've never worked with a PR firm, so I'm not sure what they would advise. There is what seems obvious, but we are missing a large portion of the story that spurred these actions.

It seems very plausible that these women *could have* (edit) suffered some sort of wrong doing. I hope the truth is found and justice is served.

[tropaka]

Per the Star, 3 women claimed he was extremely violent w/out full consent (one woman thought he'd mean he'd pull her hair etc, but he hit her and choked her) and another that he grabbed her at work (CBC) and told her he'd like to "hate-fuck" her. She says she complained to a producer, who then basically blamed her. He did not have a relationship with the coworker, so if true it's work place sexual harrassment.

Also worthy of note, a woman wrote an unflattering blind item about him last year claiming unwanted physical contact etc while on a date that she bailed from. She got a vicious internet beating for the item.

[RachelB]

I am a fan dating back to his days in Moxy Fruvous. I liked and respected him and his work, and I'm pretty bummed about this. "Betrayed" does not feel like too strong a word. I do not care what consenting adults do together, but consenting is the relevant word there.

[aquitana]

I've really enjoyed his radio show, great interviews, interesting new music. So I'm very sad about this. I looked forward to his show every day.

Overall, I don't think women make up domestic violence, which is what this seems like. Friends of friends know this guy and don't like him, but being a jerk with women and being violent are two different things. I initially felt he was wronged, but now that several women are saying similar things, there is probably truth to it.

It does bother me that he has not been convicted of anything, it is all he said/she said in the court of public opinion. I know the criminal justice system is more than flawed, but finding someone guilty with no due process really bothers me,

[Bluenoser]

Now that I think about it, Larry King made a similar pre emptive move during that affair scandal. Did that work out for him?

Cases like these are always hard to prove, it's usually she said/he said with the truth caught somewhere in the middle. I think that is why the justice system fails so often at cases like these. But, I am getting ahead of myself by leaps and bounds.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Finding someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard that we use for sending people to jail.

Is that the standard that we also need to follow before we deprive someone in the world of entertainment or sports of their position and prestige? Keep in mind that Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson and Donald Sterling haven't actually been convicted of anything at this point either. Is that the standard that an employer should have to meet before dealing with an employee who may pose a threat in the workplace (there's an allegation of sexual harassment)? Keep in mind that criminal charges are only laid in a small minority of sexual assault cases, and that criminal cases can take months/years to get to trial.

The Facebook post also seems dishonest on a crucial point. He's claiming he's a victim of discrimination based on sexual preference. That's a nasty allegation to make against a progressive public sector employer. If there was a tape out there showing somewhat rough but totally consensual sex, for example, I doubt it wouldd be a problem. The real issue is that there are several anonymous, but fairly detailed and compelling, accounts saying that this wasn't something that these women wanted.

[aquitana]

I don't have anything against consensual BDSM, but what these women describe sounds like beating. It seems like violence coming out of nowhere.

[RachelB]

I don't have anything against consensual BDSM, but what these women describe sounds like beating. It seems like violence coming out of nowhere.

*nods*

If it were just one incident, I could see it more easily as stemming from inadequately discussed and defined boundaries. But a pattern? Not so much.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

Also, I do not do BDSM, but the acquaintances I know who do practice it have talked about how essential clear negotiation is. And they take consent very seriously. "Surprise" violence of the sort that the women who talked to the Star described would get someone removed from a play party and not invited to future events.

Someone who is famous-ish might (out of concerns about confidentiality) want to avoid an organized kink community, and instead explore BDSM only in private spaces. But so might someone whose behaviors do not meet community standards for safety and consent.

[2xx1xy1JD]

For everyone's reference, here is the most recent Supreme Court of Canada decision on consent and sexual assault, in the context of BDSM.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/201 ... scc28.html (unbroken link to public legal site)

It's an interesting case, and it might explain some of the wording of the Facebook post. Legally, you can consent to someone choking you to the point that you briefly lose consciousness. You cannot, however, consent in advance to sex while unconscious. The court makes it crystal clear that consent can only be given at the time, that it needs to be ongoing, and that someone must be able to withdraw consent at any point.

[DGayle]

I've been a long-time fan, and would like to believe that this is all made up. Several women have come forward, which makes me believe there's some truth to all of this. If there's not, then this is a huge conspiracy orchestrated among several women, maybe more. That seems the less-likely scenario.

[tropaka]

The CBC has aired an interview with another woman who claimed Ghomeshi hit her/pulled her hair over 10 years ago:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/29 ... 71256.html

An anonymous woman has come forward with explicit details about being allegedly beaten by former “Q†host Jian Ghomeshi.

“...To get physically abused like that – it was shocking,†she told “As It Happens†host Carol Off on Wednesday.

"As It Happens" said they contacted Ghomeshi for comment but did not get a response by the time the interview went to air.

Listen to the interview below:

Showrunners say they know the woman's name but have decided to withhold it to protect her identity.

The woman says she met Ghomeshi “more than a decade ago†at a media Christmas party. He was reportedly “smitten†with the unnamed woman.

She says they met a second time after she accepted his invitation to attend one of his shows. The two eventually separated from a group of Ghomeshi’s colleagues and went to a bar. Later, she said he drove her to her car.

“And we chatted in the car, and he was getting flirty. So in the car, you know, he was looking like he wanted to do a little more and then he asked me if I would undo my buttons. And I said, ‘No, because I didn’t [sic] know you.’â€

Then things escalated, the woman says.

“He reached over and grabbed my hair very hard and pulled my head back. And it really took me off guard,†she said. “It was a weeknight. It was late. And I had to go.â€

She said she decided to not go to the police, but added she regrets the decision now. The woman, now married, says her husband knows about the incident. She says she felt compelled to say something after The Toronto Star published their investigation late Sunday.

“... Maybe some people will listen to me now,†she told Off.

This woman's account follows Canadaland’s Jesse Brown and The Toronto Star’s Kevin Donovan’s investigation into allegations of physical attacks against women without consent and harassment of a female co-worker.

Ghomeshi posted a detailed account of his version of events on Facebook Sunday, saying he “voluntarily showed evidence that everything I have done has been consensual.â€

The Facebook post came after CBC announced it was severing its ties with the long-time radio host after “serious deliberation and careful consideration.†Hours later, Ghomeshi announced he would be suing the broadcaster.

Details of the lawsuit filed Monday accuse the CBC for “misusing personal and confidential information provided to it in confidence and under common interest privilege.â€

The CBC acknowledged an ongoing investigation in a memo to staff on Tuesday.

the full conversation is over 10 minutes long; she claims she was attacked at his home as well

[aquitana]

I think the Facebook post was him going on the offensive because he knew it was going to hit the fan.

I miss the show and am sad that he's turned out to be abuser.

[LadyBlue]

I'd never heard of him before now. I'm sure that makes me a bad Canadian somehow.

I found this article earlier today. It sounds like it's long been an open secret that he was bad news, although not to the extent that has come out. There's now been 8 women who have come forward and one has done so publicly. http://www.nothinginwinnipeg.com/2014/1 ... bout-jian/

[2xx1xy1JD]

The Star has another front page article today. Another 4 women have come forward, and one woman has gone public with her identity. The incidents range around 12 years, and the pattern of alleged behavior is quite similar.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/10 ... sment.html

As for CBC terminating him when he wasn't convicted of anything - he was clearly using his position to lure women, he is alleged to have sexually harassed or assaulted colleagues, he is alleged to have used the lure of a potential job to get a woman alone and assault her. Women were afraid to complain because of his position. The CBC is part of the public sector.

It's now beyond obvious that his Facebook post was a massive lie - at least the parts about always being concerned about consent, the part about being fired because the CBC was squeamish about fully legal and consensual kinky sex and the part about this being all about one woman's revenge. We have evidence, from women with names, that his behavior and reputation went back over 10 years, long before any woman in her 20s today would have known him.