Lourdes and Nolan marry - Lawsuit against DPIAT/R filed

[Mary C Doates]

Oh, man! I wish I would have thought to check here before I went. I did go to the vendor hall and one workshop - full post over in the Close Encounters of the Fundie Kind thread so I don't derail this one. General impressions: fascinating, very depressing (I listened to a workshop panel with SAHDs and will type up my notes on that), and disturbing. It looks so wholesome - all the friendly, smiling, happy families - but with such a sinister side.

You are a brave soul! *pulls up a seat* Tell us everything! You know there is no such thing as "derailing" a thread around here...

PS Doug Phillips is a tool.

[neuroticcat]

Okay, I'll copy and post here, too. Is it against the rules to double-post? Help me, mods, if so.

General first impressions:

--There were a lot less people there this year than last year. Way less cars/RVs in the parking lot and I peeked in on the end of one general session and it was pretty sparse. There were also less vendors – last year there was a whole roomful and then others spilling out around the second floor – this year there was only the roomful. We can hope this is because of scandal and people rethinking their connection, but who knows?

--Fundies I spoke with:

--rep for Oakbrook Law School – it is not accredited and is mostly online. The young man I spoke with has finished and took and passed the bar in California and now in Washington. Although not every state allows them to take the bar.

--rep for the Homeschool Defense people. Pretty creepy because they were selling: your children are in danger because CPS might come take them away because of spanking or vaccinations (which, of course, led hypochondriac me to wonder how many unvaccinated children were running around and if I was now exposed to measles and whooping cough). Anyway, a bit of the “protect your God-given right to spank your kids†vibe and fear-mongering. I asked whether CPS was ever called for religious reasons, and he said he didn’t know of any instances of people who hate Christians calling CPS.

--One young woman at the welcome table was sitting on her own so I asked her what her experience with homeschooling had been. She was very sweet and basically said it was the greatest gift her parents could have given her. She is a SAHD but it has given her a lot of ministry opportunities, so she is happy about that. It does sound like she has had quite a bit of interaction with the outside community with her music, though, so perhaps fundie-lite.

--I thought it was interesting to watch the teenagers. There was almost no cross-gender interaction unless family members were present. The young men walked around in packs, but really no checking the girls out or anything. Most of the young women stayed with their families, although there were a few packs of girls as the day went on. Lots of teenaged siblings hanging out together. Quite odd.

--So many “security†people. Read, young men with ear pieces and navy blazers doing Important Things. Mr. Ncat and I had a lot of fun watching them as they took their job – whatever it was – very seriously. No ear pieces for the young women. They were all stationed at the welcome or information table – minimal interaction between them.

--Lots of pregnant women and megafamilies. A handful of non-white faces – most were adopted/fostered children, though there were a few non-white families.

--No recognizable fundie sightings. I did see the younger Craig family (Neil Craig was a speaker), and they seemed pretty polished and important, though I can’t find much online. And I heard one woman say to her daughters, “I need to go meet Mrs. Bradrick.†So I followed her down the hall – yes, I am officially a creep – and she made her way to a partitioned off section. I peeked in but I could only see the back of an older woman’s head, so not the younger Bradricks. No sight of anything Vision Forum anywhere.

On the whole, it was fascinating to people-watch and speculate what drew these people to the movement. At one point, I was outside at lunchtime and it looked so wholesome – brothers and sisters playing nicely together, large families, lots of smiling faces – that I had to remind myself of the sinister controlling underbelly. More on that to come where I summarize the depressing workshop we attended.

[thoughtful]

Okay, I'll copy and post here, too. Is it against the rules to double-post? Help me, mods, if so.

Not a mod, nor a person who knows if that's against the rules, but we can just link to where your posts start on the other thread, and follow you there, to save you the trouble of posting in both places:

http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 20#p726584

[WonderingInWA]

Nice nametag! LOL. Well, LOL unless that really is your name, and I actually think it is very pretty.

[Curious]

Don't know if anyone's caught this yet - from Kelly Crawford's public Facebook page:

And, there's a reply from - you guessed it - Stacy McDonald!!

Lots of other suggestions, ranging from dark glasses and earbuds, to witnessing to one's seatmates, to remembering to bring essential oils.

:popcorn2:

I don't fly so this would not happen to me, but if someone on a plane "witnessed" to me for 6 hours I would punch them in the face in a fit of hysteria (I'm not a good flyer). Seriously, you don't like having your "bubble" invaded so don't do it to others!

[neuroticcat]

Edited to remove long post of Panel discussion and moved here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16844&p=726627#p726627

[neuroticcat]

Nice nametag! LOL. Well, LOL unless that really is your name, and I actually think it is very pretty.

haha! No, it was my alias. Though I totally botched in when talking to homeschool legal team. I introduced myself with my real name and then had to hide fake nametag with scarf. Which is when I thought querying them on VF might have been too fishy.

[ThisOlGirl]

Oh yes, don't forget the essential oils, because if an enclosed space with 100+ people stuck together for hours needs anything, it's another smell.

[lemonhead]

Someone recommended booze.

As an introvert who travels a lot too, I can empathize with her discomfort. I find booze usually works for me, but if someone sitting next to me on an airplane started witnessing or spraying essential oils around, I would have to get medieval on their ass. Seriously, Kelly, have a jack and coke before someone gets hurt.

[DarkAnts]

As an introvert who travels a lot too, I can empathize with her discomfort. I find booze usually works for me, but if someone sitting next to me on an airplane started witnessing or spraying essential oils around, I would have to get medieval on their ass. Seriously, Kelly, have a jack and coke before someone gets hurt.

I pack liquor in one of the 2 oz bottles normally used for shampoo. I can get them through security no problem.

[Howl]

The essential oils bring to mind a conversation I had with a friend who had both

1) the worst supervisor in the history of the planet

2) a nut case co-worker

Nut case co-worker cleansed someone's cubicle by anointing it with oil because she thought they were demon possessed*. Are those commenting suggesting essential oils be utilized as protection against demons (Satan) or just in the ordinary sense that we would understand (lavender for calming, etc.)

*Not clinically insane, of course, just bat-s**t crazy in not being able to draw a line between her religious beliefs and normal behavior. She was eventually fired (state job).

Happily, my friend is now retired.

[DomWackTroll]

Nolan lashes out at R.C. Jr.: “I wish i could say that the statement is straight forward, upfront and honest about who he is and his relationship with Christ.â€

facebook.com/nolan.manteufel/posts/661499623897544?stream_ref=10

[debrand]

Nolan lashes out at R.C. Jr.: “I wish i could say that the statement is straight forward, upfront and honest about who he is and his relationship with Christ.â€

facebook.com/nolan.manteufel/posts/661499623897544?stream_ref=10

I am way behind.

Unlike RC Sproul Jr.'s remark...

"Nolan has believed false teachings. Nolan has done many stupid, hurtful, sinful and wicked things. Nolan has even felt anger toward God. If Nolan is hated, Nolan has earned it. May God give Nolan the grace to never again take his focus off Christ."

I didn't know that Sproul had mentioned Nolan. It would seem the sensible thing to do is for RC Sproul to either condemn Phillips actions or to just be quiet. Why take the risk of having your name connected to a egotist like Phillips when you could just wait until the entire controversy passes and emerge unscathed?

[ladyamylynn]

I am way behind.

I didn't know that Sproul had mentioned Nolan. It would seem the sensible thing to do is for RC Sproul to either condemn Phillips actions or to just be quiet. Why take the risk of having your name connected to a egotist like Phillips when you could just wait until the entire controversy passes and emerge unscathed?

Because RC Sproul Jr. is a self-loathing egomaniac the likes of which dwarfs Doug Phillips?

[DomWackTroll]

Because RC Sproul Jr. is a self-loathing egomaniac the likes of which dwarfs Doug Phillips?

They are truly two of a kind (starting with the famous daddies), so you'd think they'd be competitive, but no, they're sympatico... so far. I have a feeling, though, that it's only a matter of time.

[DomWackTroll]

Kelly was with her lord when she flew… "Resting in WA after the privilege of speaking at the CH Homeschool Conference. I was so encouraged! Pray if you think of it...today is the anniversary of the awful storm in 2011, and they are predicting eerily similar weather patterns (w/strong tornadoes) for tomorrow. We're supposed to fly home tomorrow, but could be delayed. Pray for us and our children. This is hard enough when we're together."

facebook.com/generationcedar/posts/10202545618976640?stream_ref=10

…and her daughters were under another man's authority while she and her husband were away: "(Thank you D**** P******** for taking care of our children!)" But it's okay, because Bria is "packing" and "knows how to use it." You know, just in case Mr. P******** is a "cad." (Not a "criminal," a "cad," according to the Doug Wilson post that Kelly heartily agreed with)

[Trynn]

I il have this ridiculous phobia of flying. Last time i flew I made people talk to me to keep me distracted from things. If the seat ate didn't want to, I found a stewardess and started asking questions about her job.

Next time, I think I'll buy a doctor for Ativan or Xanax. As an added bonus, no one will be able to witness to me because I will be too zoned out.

[Trynn]

Also, I understand why lavender oil is calming, but one I'm not sure it's make it through security, 2, what if someone on the plane is allergic to lavender? On a plane; they can't just LEAVE once they why he door or take off, I might just kill somebody.

[formergothardite]

I don't know about elsewhere on the internet but on this site, we usually quote him and provide links to his statements. No one here is falsely attributing things to him that he hasn't said. We judge him on the words that come out of his mouth. He should have explained what false statement had been about him. My guess is that he doesn't do that because he knows damned well he is being judged on his actual words and not false rumors.

Interesting that some of the people we have been discussing are becoming upset with what has been written about them lately. Did the Phillips affair shake them up that badly?

Wasn't it Truman who said something like "I don't give people hell, I quote them directly and they feel like it is hell."? I think this is true for a lot of these fundies.

[starfish]

I il have this ridiculous phobia of flying. Last time i flew I made people talk to me to keep me distracted from things. If the seat ate didn't want to, I found a stewardess and started asking questions about her job.

Next time, I think I'll buy a doctor for Ativan or Xanax. As an added bonus, no one will be able to witness to me because I will be too zoned out.

Xanax helps a lot. I'm not afraid of the flying per se, but being cooped up in a small place makes me extremely anxious.

I'm glad I finally spoke with my doctor about it.

[Marian the Librarian]

Kelly was with her lord when she flew… "Resting in WA after the privilege of speaking at the CH Homeschool Conference. I was so encouraged! Pray if you think of it...today is the anniversary of the awful storm in 2011, and they are predicting eerily similar weather patterns (w/strong tornadoes) for tomorrow. We're supposed to fly home tomorrow, but could be delayed. Pray for us and our children. This is hard enough when we're together."

facebook.com/generationcedar/posts/10202545618976640?stream_ref=10

…and her daughters were under another man's authority while she and her husband were away: "(Thank you D**** P******** for taking care of our children!)" But it's okay, because Bria is "packing" and "knows how to use it." You know, just in case Mr. P******** is a "cad." (Not a "criminal," a "cad," according to the Doug Wilson post that Kelly heartily agreed with)

Aw, Kelly has nothing to worry about - if there's another tornado in her neck of the woods, it's sure to be heart-shaped, just like the last one!

[Trynn]

My doctor knows i have anxiety, but has yet to prescribe anything like Ativan.

I'm hoping it will be different if I go in for a situational problem and only ask for enough pills toget me through the flights.

And tell them that the airline was nervous about letting me on the plane because once they shut the door they don't open it and they were afraid I was going to go from silent panic attacks to flipping the fuck out.

Im hoping that will cause them to provide the much needed relief.

[lemonhead]

My doctor knows i have anxiety, but has yet to prescribe anything like Ativan.

I'm hoping it will be different if I go in for a situational problem and only ask for enough pills toget me through the flights.

And tell them that the airline was nervous about letting me on the plane because once they shut the door they don't open it and they were afraid I was going to go from silent panic attacks to flipping the fuck out.

Im hoping that will cause them to provide the much needed relief.

I'm sorry if I'm straying waaay OT here, but FJ usually seems to be okay with that...I have often thought about asking my primary care doc about this, but 1) I hardly ever see him, so I thought it would be weird or suspicious to just show up and ask for some xanax and 2) given my pretty much all-encompassing anxiety, I think I would probably go through an Rx for "situational anxiety" in a day or two anyway.

I told my therapist once that I wish I could just have a brain transplant. Because my wiring is so faulty it will never be up to code :lol:

[Marian the Librarian]

My MD is very kind about prescribing Xanax for flying-related anxiety, and it really does help take the edge off. Since I don't travel a lot, I don't ask for frequent refills, and I think that's the key - docs just want to make sure you're not getting dependent.

[freehannie]

I didn't go to the D.C. conference, BUT I did go to the Great Homeschool Conference in Cincinnati this weekend. And David Gibbs III, Lourdes Torres-Manteufel's lawyer, did a Q&A on homeschooling laws. Because he asked ahead of time by several people about the lawsuit, he spoke about it in very vague terms. He said that he thought that the homeschooling community needed to "purge the fringe elements in the movement" after discussing the patriarchy movement, particularly that they didn't think women should be educated. He also said that if the homeschool community didn't start policing itself, the government would start doing it for them. My impression was that that was why he took the case.

In another session Chris Jeub also discussed the lawsuit (as well as a little tift with Kevin Swanson about Homeschoolers Anonymous - I will start a thread about that one). He said that the Patriarchy Movement is dying. Even Swanson has expressed his doubts about some parts of it. He also said that everyone is pretty worried about all this. I got the impression all the bad publicity is making it harder for them to fly under the radar and they don't like it.

John Stonestreet also spoke for a couple minutes about how he appreciated Michael Farris's post about how he should have said something sooner. Stonestreet said that he too had been troubled by some of the stuff he was hearing from conferences attendees about some of the patriarchal stuff and wished that he had said something.

In general, most people seemed unaware of the whole debacle which is odd since Doug is a Tool has been a speaker there for years. This year of course he was off the schedule. Also there were far fewer gender/patriarchy/purity speakers and booths. I think the tide is turning.

I spent the whole weekend on the edge of my seat waiting to see what would happen next. I think it's great that they acknowledge patriarchy and legalism are bad. But they still have no way of handling the fact that the majority of abuse of children occurs within families or by acquaintances. Since they are so opposed to any outside intervention in families, abuse will continue until they come up with a plan.