How important is preschool in raising successful kids?

[emmiedahl]

karupin, what a great way to learn another language! I wish US schools taught languages well. Students in Europe and Asia learn multiple languages, but few American students do. Why is that?

I think most students are required to take a foreign language. I had to take two years in hs and 1 yr in college. Dittoz for my stepkids and teen children (with a collective four high schools between them).

The issue is that we never really get a chance to use them because our nation is huge and relatively isolated. In many areas of Europe, you are just a short drive away from an area where another language is spoken (like, another country) and also have more visitors from said countries.

I get a lot of chances to speak Spanish in my town, but French was what I formally studied for endless years. I still am barely proficient in French, mainly because I have family friends who are French and will graciously allow me to fuck up their language occasionally. Nothing like Spanish, though. ds 15 and I are almost bilingual.

[karupin]

Karupin, I think I saw something about schools similar to yours on NHK (shown on PBS). It was talking about how in most schools in Japan, English classes are part of the curriculum starting at about middle school age, rather like they are here in the States... with similar rates of success. The teens they interviewed could barely speak English at all, (or about as much as the average highschooler here can speak Spanish or French) and it was concerning because Japan is worried about falling behind in the business world. Then they had a segment about the immersion schools, interviewing these 5-year-olds who spoke English perfectly well and said English was easier and more fun for them to learn than Japanese. It was a fascinating little segment. I do wonder how long these schools have been around, though - the new segment acted like this was a new idea, but here there have been immersion, early-starting programs in Spanish and even Chinese for years (though they're not common).

I can talk about this too, since I taught JHS and elementary English for two years in a very rural town. :D I'll put this right out there: I'm speaking in generalities. Obviously my experience does not reflect an entire country.

The ES program, originally, was a "get ready for JHS English" program. Foreigners act as assistants to Japanese teachers, and in ES, the English level really varies (it was a great way to kickstart my Japanese, though!) The kids learned basic phrases, we played lots of games, and I had several tell me how excited they were for junior high English.

Fast-forward to junior high.

In Japan, compulsory education stops at 15, the last year of junior high. To get into high school, students must take a grueling comprehensive test that covers pretty much everything they've learned since elementary school. Students usually go to cram schools, English conversation school, etc. in addition to normal school/sports club/music lessons, etc. All of this is to prepare for this entrance exam-it's basically deciding your life at the age of 15. English is included on this test-however, it's strictly listening and translation. There are no speaking or writing components, and no need to think in English. Speaking gets shoved to the wayside, kids get frustrated and into the 'I hate English' mentality.

The tests have trickled down to other levels; it's not uncommon to see four and five year olds in a cram school to get into a good elementary. Unfortunately, as teachers are forced to teach only what's on the test, there's only enough room to memorize phrases and grammar structure, not really put it into practice. There have been a lot of calls among parents and teachers alike to reform the system.

I've also taught at English conversation school (6 months, never again!), and now preschool, which I love. My school's been around for about 11 years now, and it's great seeing the graduates pop in! A lot of them do find English much easier than Japanese, and it's the same for friends of mine here who graduated from the international schools.

[sableduck]

Believe it or not, there are people who don't have access to preschool. The only preschool of me within a 45 minute drive is Head Start, which we don't qualify for. There are no private preschools and the school district doesn't offer it. Instead, my son and I will do Kindermusik, swim classes, play dates, zoo trips, hiking trips, and lots of different activities. I think in the end that you see very little difference between different school settings--I think it comes down to how willing a parent is to be involved and interested in their child's education. Whether that child is homeschooled, public schooled, or private schooled, the parents have to be involved and interested in their child's education for that child to really succeed.

[Avalondaughter]

I think most students are required to take a foreign language. I had to take two years in hs and 1 yr in college. Dittoz for my stepkids and teen children (with a collective four high schools between them).

The issue is that we never really get a chance to use them because our nation is huge and relatively isolated. In many areas of Europe, you are just a short drive away from an area where another language is spoken (like, another country) and also have more visitors from said countries.

I get a lot of chances to speak Spanish in my town, but French was what I formally studied for endless years. I still am barely proficient in French, mainly because I have family friends who are French and will graciously allow me to fuck up their language occasionally. Nothing like Spanish, though. ds 15 and I are almost bilingual.

I'm glad you brought that up. Not to hijack the topic, but I hate the way Americans are always portrayed as ignorant because we don't speak other languages. Unless you live on state close to the Mexican or Canadian border (at least the part that borders French speaking areas), you will not likely have a chance to practice the langague you studied in school and you will forget it. Europeans have the luxury of easy travel. I feel guilty speaking English in foreign countries, but what can I do? My husband and I were in Paris last year and he studied French and attempted to put on his best accent and speak French to folks, and in all but one case, they spoke English back to him. I studied Italian from 7th grade to 11th grade and was quite good at it, but don't have nearly the proficiency I had at 16. I'm going ot Italy in October and I'm trying to re-learn, and it's amazing how I have forgotten some of the most basic words. Why? It's because I haven't been to Italy since 1985!

[clibbyjo]

I'm glad you brought that up. Not to hijack the topic, but I hate the way Americans are always portrayed as ignorant because we don't speak other languages. Unless you live on state close to the Mexican or Canadian border (at least the part that borders French speaking areas), you will not likely have a chance to practice the langague you studied in school and you will forget it. Europeans have the luxury of easy travel. I feel guilty speaking English in foreign countries, but what can I do? My husband and I were in Paris last year and he studied French and attempted to put on his best accent and speak French to folks, and in all but one case, they spoke English back to him. I studied Italian from 7th grade to 11th grade and was quite good at it, but don't have nearly the proficiency I had at 16. I'm going ot Italy in October and I'm trying to re-learn, and it's amazing how I have forgotten some of the most basic words. Why? It's because I haven't been to Italy since 1985!

I have had my kids learning Spanish for the last 3 years. Living in PA. we have no chance to practice it, so they can read and translate but not speak well. My husband and I also went to Paris last year and my pitiful H.S. French got us nowhere. A translation book and hand signals worked the best. Funny, every person who talked to us did so in French,heard our terrible French and took pity on us and spoke in English. I think they appreciated us trying.I had women speaking complete French sentences to me in shops which freaked me out. I know I looked French(that was the idea), but I didn;t want anyone talking to me if I could help it lol.

[Witsec5]

Preschool was mixed bag for my son. He has always had a social anxiety disorder so it was great for him to be able to be around the same kids every day and learn to make friends, which he eventually did. If I had homeschooled him, it would have been his undoing. He needed daily, consistent socialization with other children in order to make progress and I could not have replicated that. If he had been a homeschooled insulated fundie, he would not be fit for society right now. On the other hand, he was bullied by a kid "K" and didn't tell me about it until about a year later. He was only three years old and did not know how to handle the name calling and the pushing and internalized some of it. He would come home and call K his friend but I could tell there was some anxiety there. The bad boy was eventually kicked out. My boy does know how to handle bullies now but I think age 3 is a little young to have to deal with that stuff.

[dawbs]

Believe it or not, there are people who don't have access to preschool. The only preschool of me within a 45 minute drive is Head Start, which we don't qualify for. There are no private preschools and the school district doesn't offer it. Instead, my son and I will do Kindermusik, swim classes, play dates, zoo trips, hiking trips, and lots of different activities. I think in the end that you see very little difference between different school settings--I think it comes down to how willing a parent is to be involved and interested in their child's education. Whether that child is homeschooled, public schooled, or private schooled, the parents have to be involved and interested in their child's education for that child to really succeed.

Very true.

(heck, I cant' find 'non-in-home-child-care'. Mr Dawbs and I don't have 9-5 jobs and I called EVERY licensed facility in a 45 mile radius of our home (which includes a few mid-sized cities) and not a single one can work w/ our schedules...which is why our kiddo isn't in that.)

Also interesting because the study in the OP is in an area where there's DEFINATELY not likely to be a lot in the way of child-care-options--even fewer back when it started.

[freehannie]

I'd just like to add that the Perry school, where the study was done, was an amazing preschool with highly trained teachers, low student to teacher ratios, and lots of other perks that many preschools don't have. The results that they got there with their students are not necessarily going to be reproduced by a less funded preschool without all of the training. I think that their results haven't been replicated because of this. There are also some theories that what Head Start does to help small children is to guarantee that they have 2 full meals a day more than any academic training the kids receive.

I spent the last year working on a study of preschool math training for kids and while it was initially successful for low-income kids, the effect wore off within a few years, much like the effect of Head Start in general. While it would be great if preschool could inoculate kids to the effects of poverty and inferior schools as they move into elementary and secondary schools, it doesn't seem to do that. I think we need to have programs to help kids at all levels of education. Preschool can be a great start, but it can't end there.

I did send my son to preschool and mostly what he learned was to follow the rules and schedule, move from one activity to another, and work more independently. I do think it helped him once he got to elementary school.

[Mommy22alyns]

I'm a preschool dropout. :oops:

Hahaaa!! So is my youngest! :lol:

OK, my 2 cents. My oldest went to a MDO preschool 2 days a week for 2 years. She loved it and thrived, BUT she was really beyond the "academic" parts of preschool. My youngest went to the same place and lasted 4 months. She didn't want to go back after Christmas break. She requested "homeschool preschool" and since I was already teaching my oldest, I just folded her in. So I've seen both sides of the fence. I don't think one girl is advantaged over the other because of preschool or not.