How important is preschool in raising successful kids?

[keeperrox]

Preschool is just a delivery vehicle, like the free lunches our school system provides to anyone who shows up during the summer. Kids who have plenty of food at home don't need a free lunch, but they'll probably enjoy eating it anyway; for kids who don't, it's crucial to their well-being and proper development.

I kind of love the way you put this. In two sentences, you summed up everything I was trying to say and that was floating around in my head.

[emmiedahl]

Why would you make the assumption that an economically disadvantaged child, by federal definition, has no toys or Sesame Street? That's a huge leap. My husband taught in a school for 31 years who students would have fit within the definition of economically disadvantaged (high percent on free or reduced lunch is one indicator) and I can assure you, they had toys and Sesame Street.

And this isn't just for you, but several posters have made references to poor mothers being unable to enrich their children's life. I know of many poor mothers who did very good jobs using the free resources in the community, such as the libary with its many programs for young children, to enrich their child's life. It doesn't cost anything to borrow books from the library and it doesn't cost anything to read to your child. Many poor mothers do a fine job at this.

I think some of you are making too much of the fact that this study happened to look at groups of children that were economically disadvantaged homes. What's important in this or any other study is that the control and treatment groups have similar backgrounds and experiences (i.e., the same or similar demographic). If some of the kids had been disadvantaged, and some had been middle class, the study would have been less valid. The same study could have been just as well conducted on two groups of middle class children. The element of these particular children being economcially disadvantaged is not a central to the study itself.

The fact that they were all economically disadvantaged means that the results can only apply to economically disadvantaged children. Some poor moms do a great job, I would like to think that I personally fall into this group, but poor children are statistically more likely to have less enriching homes, be read to less, and even spoken to less--a deficit of millions of words over their preschool years compared to the middle class. I'm not assuming anything; there are studies out there addressing why preschool is particularly important for poor children.

[Katiebug]

I remember reading the chapter in Freakonomics that explores the factors that on a macro level have been shown to affect a child's academic test scores. Obviously there are exceptions, but in general most of what affects school outcomes is based on what a child's parents are versus what they do. The parents being highly-educated, the mother being 30+ when she had her first child, and higher socioeconomic status all correlate strongly with higher tests scores. Having a mother who doesn't work or attending Head Start do not significantly affect a child's test scores.

However, a good chunk of what dictates success as an adult are those soft skills. Sharing with others, learning to be around other children, learning manners and behavior around peers, etc. are all skills that are important to have and that can be learned in daycare or nursery school. That doesn't mean that nursery school is the only way for a child to develop those skills, but it is a convenient and age-appropriate way to impart them if parents choose.

Mr. Bug and I feel that daycare has been a very positive experience for our 1 year old. If one of us was a SAHP, she would still be going to nursery school at 3.

[clibbyjo]

yes, in my opinion. as someone that has majored in early childhood education. Parents can do it on their own. But preschool offers a lot of things that homeschooling doesn't.

ETA: I'm contributing to the discussion just like everyone else, with my opinion based on my experience and my knowledge. I'm not quite sure why it's so important that the words "my opinion" appear when I think based on the the topic and every other response, it's quite clear that this is an opinion based discussion.

Hmmm, I myself taught preschool during high school for 2 years, went to college for elementary ed. and I have homeschooled forever so I disagree with "preschool offers a lot of things homeschooling doesn't". If you are talking about "Maxwell homeschooling", then YES, I agree. If you are talking about people like me who don't shelter their homeschooled kids then you would be wrong. My oldest 2 kids did not attend "preschool",but they did take gymnastics, swimming, baseball ,boyscouts and whatever I could find until I found my first secular co-op when the kids 7,4 and 1. My oldest was reading Harry Potter at age 4,I did involved unit studies with him every day. He is now 15 and was just offered an $80K a year job which he obviously cannot take since he isn't old enough to work or drive. He has friends,he volunteers once a week at the hospital and he fences. He is not grown yet, but if he continues on this path he will be very successful. I do not think he has missed anything by not attending preschool. My youngest did attend a Montessori preschool and he liked it and I was happy with it,but I don't think he would be a misfit without it.

This is my opinion, as a homeschooling mom for 10+ years and co-founder of a secular homeschool co-op with over 40 families. I have taught children from ages 3-16 over the past 10 years,some have and some have not attended preschool.I am not for or against preschool, I think its up to the parent to decide what is right for their child and not make a blanket statement that covers ALL children.

[acutexenophobia]

Hmmm, I myself taught preschool during high school for 2 years, went to college for elementary ed. and I have homeschooled forever so I disagree with "preschool offers a lot of things homeschooling doesn't". If you are talking about "Maxwell homeschooling", then YES, I agree. If you are talking about people like me who don't shelter their homeschooled kids then you would be wrong. My oldest 2 kids did not attend "preschool",but they did take gymnastics, swimming, baseball ,boyscouts and whatever I could find until I found my first secular co-op when the kids 7,4 and 1. My oldest was reading Harry Potter at age 4,I did involved unit studies with him every day. He is now 15 and was just offered an $80K a year job which he obviously cannot take since he isn't old enough to work or drive. He has friends,he volunteers once a week at the hospital and he fences. He is not grown yet, but if he continues on this path he will be very successful. I do not think he has missed anything by not attending preschool. My youngest did attend a Montessori preschool and he liked it and I was happy with it,but I don't think he would be a misfit without it.

This is my opinion, as a homeschooling mom for 10+ years and co-founder of a secular homeschool co-op with over 40 families. I have taught children from ages 3-16 over the past 10 years,some have and some have not attended preschool.I am not for or against preschool, I think its up to the parent to decide what is right for their child and not make a blanket statement that covers ALL children.

I assumed (and yes, quite possibly made an ass out of myself) that we were talking about preschool and relating to fundies (as this is in the quiver full of snark forum). So yes, again, I brought up homeschooling in terms of Maxwell homeschooling. I'm new to forums and I'm slowly learning the etiquette. And yes, as this is what I've studied, I was rather eager to list as many pros that I could for preschool. I grew up with parents working full time and we were still poor, I was placed in headstart program and I still remember it and love it. I know had I not had that, I may have struggled in kindergarten. I do think that preschool is a very viable option for working parents and that families living below the poverty line should most definitely invest in headstart if they are unable to school their children themselves.

[Feberin]

As for someone's comment about ECE degrees being so important: No, they're not. Really. My mom was a non-degreed preschool and kindergarten teacher for years. So you might say she was just another "mommy," albeit one who loved to reach little ones new things. And she was very, very good at what she did. There are bad teachers with ECE degrees, and great teachers who never set foot in a college class. The degree is no guarantee.

Just wanted to say that I only mentioned my degree because I felt that I needed to after the previous poster saying that they had one and therefore knew everything. I think any parent that wants to teach their preschooler at home can do it. You can find amazing lesson ideas online and it books. And many communities have libraries, moms groups with play options, sports for the preschool set, music classes and such to provide the very much needed social interaction.

[Turtle]

Why would you make the assumption that an economically disadvantaged child, by federal definition, has no toys or Sesame Street? That's a huge leap. My husband taught in a school for 31 years who students would have fit within the definition of economically disadvantaged (high percent on free or reduced lunch is one indicator) and I can assure you, they had toys and Sesame Street.

And this isn't just for you, but several posters have made references to poor mothers being unable to enrich their children's life. I know of many poor mothers who did very good jobs using the free resources in the community, such as the libary with its many programs for young children, to enrich their child's life. It doesn't cost anything to borrow books from the library and it doesn't cost anything to read to your child. Many poor mothers do a fine job at this.

I think some of you are making too much of the fact that this study happened to look at groups of children that were economically disadvantaged homes. What's important in this or any other study is that the control and treatment groups have similar backgrounds and experiences (i.e., the same or similar demographic). If some of the kids had been disadvantaged, and some had been middle class, the study would have been less valid. The same study could have been just as well conducted on two groups of middle class children. The element of these particular children being economcially disadvantaged is not a central to the study itself.

I think it is the socialization/social skills area, rather than any academic issues, where preschool provides the long-term benefits. Sesame Street and some toys isn't going to help with that. Parking your kid in front of Sesame Street won't provide a fraction of what a good preschool can. I don't think it matters long-term if a kid learns to read at 3 or 3rd grade, but social skills/interaction/opportunities to explore new situations are important for a child's early development. And if you can barely afford gas to the grocery store, then you probably can't make it to the even the free community opportunities. Maybe you can walk to the park if the weather permits.

Not saying that a poor mother can't enrich her kid's life, just that they probably can't provide everything a good preschool can. I certainly couldn't when I wasn't working.

[acutexenophobia]

Just wanted to say that I only mentioned my degree because I felt that I needed to after the previous poster saying that they had one and therefore knew everything. I think any parent that wants to teach their preschooler at home can do it. You can find amazing lesson ideas online and it books. And many communities have libraries, moms groups with play options, sports for the preschool set, music classes and such to provide the very much needed social interaction.

I think you may be referring to me :oops: And the only reason I did mention it because I was saying that it affected my view on preschool. I'm apparently very bad at forums. I in no way whatsoever think I know more about kids because of a piece of paper. I would go to my mother for advice on children before I would go to one of my former professors. And sometimes, I didn't agree with the things I was taught. I still do think that preschool is important and if parents aren't able to teach their children on their own, they should consider enrolling their child in preschool.

[emmiedahl]

I think you can absolutely homeschool preschool. If you can homeschool 3rd grade, why not preschool? The point is social interaction, educational toys, and (depending on your philosophy) a varying amount of formal learning. Oldest ds went to a preschool that was firmly against teaching reading/writing/etc due to their educational philosophy and I still think it was a great experience.

Like I said earlier, the study deals with children from a single group, a specific area and economic status. That, I think, is the limiting factor. I have a friend who unschools her six kids and has done so for their whole lives. She is more 'un' than even most unschoolers I know, as in her children do not have any planned activities that they did not initiate, and her kids are all very socially appropriate and intelligent.

There are a lot of ways to raise a kid. In the end, most of them will be successful because children are hardwired to grow and learn. You have to work pretty hard or be very negligent to really screw them up.

[Wolfie]

I didn't go to preschool. I was a little kid in the early 1970s, before it was widely available.

I think that many of us who have already mentioned that we went to preschool were born in the 70's. Head Start was actually started in 1965, which indicates that preschool had become pretty mainstream. It may have been a parental choice.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I think that many of us who have already mentioned that we went to preschool were born in the 70's. Head Start was actually started in 1965, which indicates that preschool had become pretty mainstream. It may have been a parental choice.

Preschool might have been mainstream elsewhere, but very, very few of the kids I grew up with went to preschool. The few who did went to "nursery school" rather than preschool and they only went once or twice a week for half a day. IIRC, it was a church program. Daycare wasn't necessary, since most of the working moms were part-timers and left the kids with a relative or a neighbor. Single moms also relied on relatives to take care of the little ones. (The older ones were all latchkey kids.) The place where I grew up was mostly working-class/lower-middle class at that time and therefore too well-off for Head Start. I'd never even heard of it until I took a child development class in high school.

Later on, when I was a teenager, the demographics of my suburb changed and there were a lot of yuppie parents who sent their kids to Montessori and other high-end preschools and daycares that cater primarily to the upper-middle class (i.e. they're located in the more upscale suburbs and charge big bucks for tuition). Even when I was 15 and 16 years old, I recognized there was a difference between my age cohorts and the children of the Baby Boomers who grew up in the 1980s and early 1990s. Income and the parents' education levels were a huge part of it, but a lot of it had to do with the parents' mindsets. When I was little, my parents and their friends didn't worry so much about how their kids stacked up against the rich people's kids. (The one mom who did sent her son to tennis camp, not preschool.) Most of them didn't expect their kids to go to college. Believe me, I listened to the adults' conversations constantly and they never talked about that stuff. But the parents who were raising kids 10-15 years later were much more competitive. Not only were their kids expected to go to college, they had to get into a good school. Preschool was more important to them because little Jessica and Sean HAD to be ready for kindergarten, which now emphasized reading and math over playing "Farmer In The Dell" and coloring inside the lines.

[HoneyBunny]

Uh, I'm a preschool teacher. How important is preschool to a child's development and future educational experience? One would only have to look at the 3 year olds in May vs. the prior September to know. And it's not simply the natural developmental progress that 8 months provide in a young child's life...4 year olds who have never been to preschool go through a similar metamorphosis during their first year of preschool.

Children need to develop coping skills to deal with separation anxiety. Once they become certain that "moms ALWAYS come back", they develop confidence that things can change and they'll still be okay. Preschool provides a valuable transition from mom's love to kindergarten, where, frankly, kids are expected to be socialized, fairly independent, able to cope with structure and not be disruptive, because they've got to hit the ground running and be reading early in the school year.

I don't mean to downplay the education a preschooler receives, because it's huge and vital and significant. But kids can learn these sorts of things (color, shapes, calendars, world cultures, etc.) at home. What they are less likely to develop is the sense of separateness from parents and the self esteem that comes from knowing that they are able to cope in new environments.

[Kitten]

HoneyBunny - we can agree to disagree, but case in point - I had two very social, extroverted children who never, not even as infants, had separation anxiety. They simply loved being out and about with a variety of people. I often got comments, even before they started preschool, about how they sometimes seemed like "little adults" because of their willingness to jump into a conversation with anyone, and not just to get attention. I didn't see any difference in my children's social skills after they started preschool, because they entered with them already strong. They could sit quietly while the teacher read a book, because that's what we did at home. They could raise their hands to ask a question, because we "played" school at home sometimes. They could walk in a line, because we did that for fun at the park (often using the baby ducks as examples). They could toilet themselves and wash their own hands, because that's what we did at home. They could share, because that's what we did at home. Preschool was, for them, just another play group.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I go back to my son's classmate. At age 3, she definitely had severe separation anxiety. Rather than force her to continue, as the "educated" teachers wanted her to do, her mom simply took her out and waited a year. At that time, she had matured enough to come into the 4-year-old classroom quite happily. That "metamorphosis" didn't happen in a preschool; it happened in her home, where she was allowed to be who she was, and not forced into lockstep just because "kids should go to preschool at age 3, or they'll never get into Harvard."

I started preschool at 2 years, because my mom was a teacher, so I was thrown in with the 3-year-olds. And I loved it, even though I was NOT an extrovert like my children. But I loved to play and listen to stories. And my mom was already teaching my letters and numbers at home. Was I better off later on because I had an "extra" year of preschool?

I'll desist from more posts, because it's pretty clear that you, along with some others feel preschool is essential to all children's later success, and nothing I say is going change that. I am equally convinced that while preschool is a great way to provide educational and social opportunities that some children might not otherwise get at home, for many other children, it is just another block of fun time on the weekly schedule.

One big advantage to preschool? I did learn that the best time to go grocery shopping was Tuesday morning. The stores have restocked after the weekend, everything is fresh, no one is there at 10:00 am, and you don't have to keep tabs on two active kids while you shop. So yeah, preschool does have value. :D

[Letgo]

Years ago, probably late '80s or early '90s, I saw a news magazine type show on a preschool that focused on socialization. The children there were not specifically taught colors, numbers, letters, etc. The school believed that socialization was the most important "skill" a child could have. If a child does not learn to share, explore, create, play, be a friend, take turns, get along with others, and so on, then he or she will not be a successful adult. If a child does not learn to be social, then whatever else is learned won't matter. Children have K-12 to learn academics and this preschool believed its job was helping a child to socialize successfully. It was a very interesting show. The children were allowed to be pretty wild. If they wanted to jump on the bed, that was fine-yes, there was a bed in the classroom. If they wanted to paint each other, the floor, or paper, fine. Parents were told to send their children in clothing that could get dirty and stained. The kids had water fights, paint fight, played in the mud, and just had a blast. I wanted to go!

My children attended a preschool that followed a toned down version of this philosophy. No bed or paint fights, but socialization was the focus. The kids weren't taught to read or do math. I sent them because there were no children in our neighborhood around their ages and we were new in town. I also wanted my son to be less dependent on his twin sister. And she needed time away from him, to be by herself, too. Preschool helped both of my twins to grow and become more independent individuals. I don't think it is a necessity, but it was good for my kids. I liked the lack of academics for children that young that their preschool had and my kids did well in regular school later.

[karupin]

Another preschool teacher chiming in, but my experience is quite different: I teach in an English-immersion preschool in Japan. The majority of the students are fully Japanese and speak only Japanese at home (most don't even have an English speaking parent). Most of them start at 2 or 3 with little to no ability, and by the time they come to my level, they're speaking fluently and with no accent. The changes and developments that we get to help with are incredible, from toilet training up to writing simple stories in English. We get the children used to seeing foreign faces in a variety of colors and nationalities, lots of play, and a lot of fun. It's a unique experience.

My school also has an afterschool program for elementary students, and I do a lot of the classes for our preschool graduates, and their language skills are still retained. It's really rewarding.

[Austin]

I think it is the socialization/social skills area, rather than any academic issues, where preschool provides the long-term benefits. Sesame Street and some toys isn't going to help with that. Parking your kid in front of Sesame Street won't provide a fraction of what a good preschool can. I don't think it matters long-term if a kid learns to read at 3 or 3rd grade, but social skills/interaction/opportunities to explore new situations are important for a child's early development. And if you can barely afford gas to the grocery store, then you probably can't make it to the even the free community opportunities. Maybe you can walk to the park if the weather permits.

Not saying that a poor mother can't enrich her kid's life, just that they probably can't provide everything a good preschool can. I certainly couldn't when I wasn't working.

Uh, I wasn't saying that kids do learn all the necessary social skills from Sesame Street. I was responding to another poster who seemed to be suggesting that poor families don't have Sesame Street or toys. My husband has been an educator for 36 years and he has rarely found that poor families do not have things such as these.

[Austin]

Perhaps not. But what we don't know is if the results would have shown the same differences between the two groups. While many "economically disadvantaged" parents do their best to provide their children with more than the necessities, it's not a huge leap of logic to assume that most of their children do not enjoy the same vast array of opportunties that children from "financially advantaged" families do.

Again. . . this study simply observed trends. It looked at the participants in the study over a 20-plus year period. These were not observations/conclusions made in kindergarten, or eighth grade, or even twelth grade. These "children" were 27 years old when the treatment group and control group were observed and compared. Some children from both the treatment and control group had bank accounts. Some from both groups had cars. Some from both groups had been arrested.

So this study could have been conducted with children from any socioeconomic demographic and it still would have been a valid study as long as all of the children in the study were demonstrably from the same socioeconomic demographic. It happened to be socioeconomically disadvantaged children in this particular study. I DID NOT say that the results ("results" is not a good word, "observations" is much more accurate) would have been the same regardless of demographic because that cannot be known as no middle class demographic study was presented as a comparison. So since those results cannot be known based on the article regarding the study, I certainly was not saying they would be the same.

I was simply trying to point out that I believe some posters are making too much of the children's socioeconomic status alone to the exclusion of the broader observations in the study, and kind of seeing the trees, but not the forest. Socioeconomic status is an important element of the study, but certainly not the only important element.

edited for grammar/spelling - I need coffee

[Austin]

I'll desist from more posts, because it's pretty clear that you, along with some others feel preschool is essential to all children's later success, and nothing I say is going change that.

Did someone actually post that preschool is essential for all children? I'm not saying they didn't, but I didn't see it. Perhaps you could direct me to that post.

While I personally believe that preschool is a benefit for many children regardless of socioeconomic status, I do not believe that any one thing can be applied to all children, and preschool is no exception.

[Avalondaughter]

Fundies treat preschool as some kind repository for kids who aren't being properly parented, that kids don't want to be there, and will be traumatized.

I will admit my mother was working part time when I was in preschool, and while some kids went part time, I was there all day. It hardly matters. I LOVED LOVED LOVED preschool. I can't emphasize how much I loved it. I was so happy there. I loved my kids. I loved my teachers. My teachers loved me (in fact I was so fond of one of them that she actually invited me to her house for dinner). I can't say one negative thing about the experience. Had I not gone, I think my life would not have been as rich.

Is it so incomprehensible to fundies that kids might actually want to go to to nursery school because they actually like it?

[Kitten]

Austin, this post is just for you. Go back and read acutexenophobia's (?) post:

Preschool is sooooooooo important to young children. I cannot stress this enough. Children learn so many skills in preschool that they would not learn in the home…Children need preschool for social/emotional development as well as their physical and cognitive development. (emphasis mine)

Others then agreed.

That's all. No biggie - we're all entitled to our own opinions, and I've expressed mine several times. I just don't think there's anything new I can add, so no reason to keep responding to posts I disagree with.

[sacrilicious]

This is pretty interesting as my daughter is starting pre-kindergarten in just a few days. As a parent, the advantages of preschool over homeschooling, for us, are:

1. Transition into full day kindergarten next year. Her program is 15 hours a week

2. Socialization. She's an only child, and while we've done a few play dates, story time at library, parks, etc, I work part time with a schedule that changes month to month and it's been hard to do anything consistently that fits with my schedule

3. The life skills that people have already mentioned--sitting in a chair, listening to directions, staying in line, taking (some) responsibility for herself and her stuff. I try to work with her on these things, but as an only child it's sometimes easier for me to do things for her.

4. Academics. I hate to say it, considering I teach college courses, but she does not learn from me. I don't know if it's my method or her personality/learning style, but she absorbs things much better from educational tv shows and computer games. These have actually helped her already quite a bit. I'm hoping a teacher trained in early childhood education will be able to help her much more than I can.

5. Introduction to extracurricular stuff, like teaching computer literacy through games, dedicated music class, PE, etc.

My opinion just as a parent on this is that preschool probably isn't necessary, but to do it right as a homeschooling parent you really have to make it your job. And I just don't have the time between working, the resources (a co-op, money to buy more instruments and better learning materials than freebie downloads, for example) or the inclination to do that. So, hurray for state-funded 4 year old preschool!

[Austin]

Austin, this post is just for you. Go back and read acutexenophobia's (?) post:

Preschool is sooooooooo important to young children. I cannot stress this enough. Children learn so many skills in preschool that they would not learn in the home…Children need preschool for social/emotional development as well as their physical and cognitive development. (emphasis mine)

Others then agreed.

That's all. No biggie - we're all entitled to our own opinions, and I've expressed mine several times. I just don't think there's anything new I can add, so no reason to keep responding to posts I disagree with.

Well, that's very interesting, but I do not see "all children must go to preschool" in that post. Something being important is not the same as saying "all must". I'm sure calculus is very important to some people, but I never mastered it.

[acutexenophobia]

Well, that's very interesting, but I do not see "all children must go to preschool" in that post. Something being important is not the same as saying "all must". I'm sure calculus is very important to some people, but I never mastered it.

I still stand by the children learn skills in preschool that they may not learn in the home. And since I assumed we were talking about this article in relation to fundies, that is why I mentioned that. Honestly, I felt like I was being criticized for my opinion on this. Thank you, Austin (and a few others) for not treating me that way. If someone has the ability and time to teach their child at home, then I believe they should go for it. But I do think that socialization is important for young children to learn. And yes, they can get these in ways other than preschool. But again, since I assumed we were talking about this in relation to fundies, we all know that they receive very selective socialization.

eta: Sorry, that came off very "poor me." It wasn't meant to. I've never really used internet forums and I'm still having difficulty conveying myself. Please bear with me while I learn this etiquette.

[Letgo]

karupin, what a great way to learn another language! I wish US schools taught languages well. Students in Europe and Asia learn multiple languages, but few American students do. Why is that?

[PBrooke]

Karupin, I think I saw something about schools similar to yours on NHK (shown on PBS). It was talking about how in most schools in Japan, English classes are part of the curriculum starting at about middle school age, rather like they are here in the States... with similar rates of success. The teens they interviewed could barely speak English at all, (or about as much as the average highschooler here can speak Spanish or French) and it was concerning because Japan is worried about falling behind in the business world. Then they had a segment about the immersion schools, interviewing these 5-year-olds who spoke English perfectly well and said English was easier and more fun for them to learn than Japanese. It was a fascinating little segment. I do wonder how long these schools have been around, though - the new segment acted like this was a new idea, but here there have been immersion, early-starting programs in Spanish and even Chinese for years (though they're not common).