Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 6

[ladyamylynn]

Amazing how real life does that to you.

Except Perry is on Facebook defending Kevin Swanson as "a friend of mine and a pastor of the Gospel." Swanson is, if anything, more ideologically extreme than VF. The Coghlans might be confused, and they might be hypocrites, but their politics and theology are extremely conservative.

[tabitha2]

Said said it before and I'll say it again, The Coghlans are in a league of their own. It's a mixture of liberality- young girls who drink and read Wodehouse,LOTR-and classic fundy-abortion protests as family events.

[CloakNDagger]

Almost forgot again, I keep meaning to ask these questions!

CloakNDagger if you can give your best estimates about BCA not VFM/VFI please:

1. How big was BCA (#of families and #of children) at the height of Doug's popularity?

2. How many families left when the scandal broke internally/Doug resigned as Elder at BCA (Jan/Feb/March, 2013)?I don't think we know of any except the girl's family

3. How many families have left since Doug's resignation from VFM and the scandal broke externally (Nov 2013 - present.)?

4. It may be a bit redundant, but how many still at BCA do you think are true believers and holding ranks firmly?

Thanks in advance!

I'm going to place this in the "that's not my department" category. I'm not here to blame all of the people I know, I'm here to say that we have seen that the emperor has no clothes, and that it's time for people to pull their heads out of the sand and re-think how they view these things and unlearn some things that they think have been indoctrinated to believe in are the Bible's answer, when in reality, there may be a different answer even from the Bible.

[CloakNDagger]

I've been lurking for a while and created an account simply to express my appreciation for Hero's brother finally stepping up and chasing DP away with a firearm. It may have taken a long time but I'm encouraged that he had the nerve to stand up to his family's demigod in that way. I'd love to hear the story behind that occurrence. Also, to thank CloakNDagger for lending his (/her?) credible voice to the mix. As people whose lives (in my case, nearly my entire childhood and young adulthood) have been profoundly impacted by men like DP and BG (need we specify, negatively impacted!), we deserve to know the truth and nothing less.

This is incredible. Was Beall that far gone, past the point of jealousy?

That's hard to tell but I've heard that there was at least one previous confrontation back then that didn't result in much of anything.

Were Hero's parents past the point of caring about their daughter?

No, just indoctrinated and deceived.

We're talking 5–6 years ago now. How old was she?

So if she's approximately 29 now, that would be 23-25.

How old was he?

Currently 48 so 42-43.

If I imagine the rage of a wife who discovers her husband's infidelity (especially with a far younger girl, and in a culture that so demonizes sexuality), or the rage of parents who discover that their daughter is being taken advantage of in some way by a much older man, how did they not summarily execute him years ago (knowing the emphasis that their culture puts on guns, "protecting women," and Mosaic laws such as the adulterer deserving death)?

Um, so like, they sent her to help the family because they believed that God was doing a great thing through the work and the ministry. Now see, if they believed that so strongly, you can see how when someone manipulates them and tells them all of the damage that will be done if they let it become known, they are afraid to be the ones that drag down all of the work that God has been doing.

And you see, gun culture does not = gun violence!

DP being so friendly to young ladies raised no questions, no concerns?

I'm sure that there were concerns, I'm also sure that they were silenced. In fact, according to a conversation I had, one young man that did confront DP about this relationship was told something along the lines of: "can you imagine the damage you would do to the testimony of a fine Christian girl if you made this accusation against her character?"

Remember, this is a culture that discourages any sort of male–female friendships; even talking more than 5 minutes is cause for a verbal excoriation (BG says talking for more than 5 minutes is a "date"). I remember, growing up, in my church & social circle I tried popularizing the habit of giving "friend" hugs (the type you use for both guys and girls) — it was quite awkward and never caught on. Any type of interaction between male and female is considered alien and flirtatious. How did people ignore that when they themselves were held to such a sterile standard of interaction themselves?

This isn't Gothard's culture, and there have always been odd exceptions.

[Palimpsest]

I'm going to place this in the "that's not my department" category. I'm not here to blame all of the people I know, I'm here to say that we have seen that the emperor has no clothes, and that it's time for people to pull their heads out of the sand and re-think how they view these things and unlearn some things that they think have been indoctrinated to believe in are the Bible's answer, when in reality, there may be a different answer even from the Bible.

I see your point about not feeling you are blaming people, but I'm not asking for names. I'm just asking for rough estimates of the number of people who were, and still are, victims of DP's false teaching and indoctrination at BCA. The indoctrination is very strong against speaking out, and it is very painful to discover that you have been a victim of false teaching. For many people should we feel compassion? Not blame, but compassion.

How about putting it another way:

1. Is our estimate correct that about 20 families were members of BCA? (yes/no)

2. If incorrect, as it more or less than 20 families? (more/less)

3. Is TW Eston correct when he said that 3 or 4 families left BCA when DP resigned as Elder in Jan/Feb 2013? (yes/no)

4. Have more families officially left BCA since Doug resigned from VFM in Oct/Nov 2013? (yes/no)

[DomWackTroll]

Except Perry is on Facebook defending Kevin Swanson as "a friend of mine and a pastor of the Gospel." Swanson is, if anything, more ideologically extreme than VF. The Coghlans might be confused, and they might be hypocrites, but their politics and theology are extremely conservative.

The comments under Perry's post about "Frozen" (which is promoting lesbianism, according to Swanson) are hilarious. Jennie Chancey is suddenly the voice of reason. :roll:

[congusto]

The comments under Perry's post about "Frozen" (which is promoting lesbianism, according to Swanson) are hilarious. Jennie Chancey is suddenly the voice of reason. :roll:

If that doesn't sum up how much of a Gong Show this mess is, what will?

[Othello]

And you see, gun culture does not = gun violence!

Sorry, didn't mean to give a wrong impression! I didn't actually believe they'd do something of the sort. Many of the questions stated there were rhetorical and/or tongue-in-cheek, just ranting a bit about all the rhetoric regarding the Christian Reconstructionist ideal of enforcing death penalties where Mosaic law required it. I remember distinctly a long conversation with R. Glick (of NCFIC) in which he argued that said penalties were indeed Biblical and given the opportunity, the gov't should enforce them...

I enjoy guns – I've shot everything from an AK to a drum-mag 12-gauge to a variety of handguns, and just suggested to a young lady who had been followed/accosted on a number of occasions that she carry – but certain aspects of *gun culture* are creepy – the us vs. them mentality, that everyone's out to get you, etc. Maybe it's just the ones I've known personally.

I'm sure that there were concerns, I'm also sure that they were silenced. In fact, according to a conversation I had, one young man that did confront DP about this relationship was told something along the lines of: "can you imagine the damage you would do to the testimony of a fine Christian girl if you made this accusation against her character?"

Oh wow; gritting my teeth. Props to the aforementioned for having the courage to bring it up, though.

[Queen Of Hearts]

I thought there was supposed to be some big announcement regarding the Tool and this situation? Every time I get excited thinking we might find out something new, I get disappointed. It seems like we are just spinning our wheels here. It is frustrating to know people are clearly covering up actions (crimes) of Dog Phillips is a Tool.

[Cleopatra7]

I thought there was supposed to be some big announcement regarding the Tool and this situation? Every time I get excited thinking we might find out something new, I get disappointed. It seems like we are just spinning our wheels here. It is frustrating to know people are clearly covering up actions (crimes) of Dog Phillips is a Tool.

JA at SSB said that her Doug Phillips is a Tool series would probably be up in a week and a half or so.

[CloakNDagger]

JA at SSB said that her Doug Phillips is a Tool series would probably be up in a week and a half or so.

I expect a more thorough / journalistic story to come out pretty soon as well.

[DomWackTroll]

The Coughlan's daughter Lydia (she's about 17 I think) says on her blog that she has a part time job

working at the Krav Maga gym they use (for a male boss): fatshortandlean.wordpress.com/

Man, the Coughlans keep slipping farther and farther away from the VF vision, don't they?

They're allowed to just do whatever they want, because Calvinism. For example, when Perry posts a Samuel L. Jackson meme, commenter Dante responds: "Meme doesn't quite work without the 'mother$%?!er' at the end." Perry "Likes" the comment, but it's okay because Perry is already one of the Elect and God meant for him to "Like" the word "mother$%?!er" since before time began.

facebook.com/pcoghlan/posts/10203316134322537?stream_ref=10

ETA: I do not mean to imply that all or most or even a substantial minority of Calvinists think or behave this way. We've all seen that for many of them, Calvinism leads to just the opposite: extreme repression. But this is Perry's take on Calvinism because... Well, that's the way he wants it.

[Marian the Librarian]

Don't know if anyone's caught this yet - Jordan Muela's Facebook page has also been taken down.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[Jane_Goth]

The comments under Perry's post about "Frozen" (which is promoting lesbianism, according to Swanson) are hilarious. Jennie Chancey is suddenly the voice of reason. :roll:

I don't think I want to live in a world where Jennie Chancey is the voice of reason. :o

[Palimpsest]

Yep, Jordan's FB is gone and Nolan Manteufel is posting the definition of "nemisis."

Hmmm.

[FJSharkJump]

They're allowed to just do whatever they want, because Calvinism. For example, when Perry posts a Samuel L. Jackson meme, commenter Dante responds: "Meme doesn't quite work without the 'mother$%?!er' at the end." Perry "Likes" the comment, but it's okay because Perry is already one of the Elect and God meant for him to "Like" the word "mother$%?!er" since before time began.

I cannot stop laughing at this. Every time I think about it I chuckle. I will be sure to come back to this when I am having a bad day. :dance:

[Queen Of Hearts]

I expect a more thorough / journalistic story to come out pretty soon as well.

Hope you all are right. I am getting impatient here! :) It is time to see the Tool fall once and for all.

By the way, on one of the other pages (I lost track of which one and didn't have time to follow every comment - especially once TW went off the deep end with some of the random speculation) there was a lady who alleged to be the Tool's neighbor. I don't know if she was legit but she was entertaining and had some good stories. Is she still posting?

[debrand]

Amen Perry, I don't know Kevin that well, but last weekend I did happen to be in Russia of all places, and so was Kevin. He was teaching at a family education conference, and saying some great things about putting Christ at the forefront of a proper education. You can watch a clip from his presentation on my Facebook page. Proverbs 1:7 was one of the main verses he used. He did a great job helping new homeschoolers get off to a good start

Swanson must have been at the same conference as the Botkins.

Apparently, the sauna scene in Frozen upset someone-I lost track of who all were upset or if it was just Kimberly

Kimberly Coghlan Oh - and I looked. For the record, the group that Oaken addresses as "family" clearly appears to be a man and 4 children of unclear gender. There is no mom. One could assume that they are customers...or not. I would assume that it was Disney thumbing its nose at conservatives, as they have done many times in the past - Lion King, The Little Mermaid, and The Rescuers to name three. No big surprise here.

[MamaJunebug]

Ohforcryin'outloud -- the figure in the upper right corner is the mom. Her eyes are closed (cannot believe the women-oppressors didn't appreciate that demure look!) and her nose and smile are bigger than those of the three children. I haven't seen the film, probably won't, but just looking at that still – it's so obvious.

[Nutamole]

Hope you all are right. I am getting impatient here! :) It is time to see the Tool fall once and for all.

By the way, on one of the other pages (I lost track of which one and didn't have time to follow every comment - especially once TW went off the deep end with some of the random speculation) there was a lady who alleged to be the Tool's neighbor. I don't know if she was legit but she was entertaining and had some good stories. Is she still posting?

J A at SSB posted this update today:

"For those interested in the upcoming Phillips articles: I was nearly done with an article last night and then made a followup phone call with my primary source for verification and ended up deleting much of it. Sorry for the delay. I know people are really wanting to see this information, but I want to rely solely on this Source for information, not information I’ve received from second-hand sources, articles, blogs, commenters on blogs."

As for DPIAT's former neighbor, I've not seen anything from her since the Phillips family moved away and she gave birth about the same time. I had a bit of online conversaton with her, and she seemed real to me. Her description of all the white conversion vans coming and going, and often filling up the cult-de-sac, were entertaining! I wonder who will move into the Tool's old house (or has already)? Will they find hidden rooms filled with overlooked costumes?

[church_of_dog]

As for DPIAT's former neighbor, I've not seen anything from her since the Phillips family moved away and she gave birth about the same time. I had a bit of online conversaton with her, and she seemed real to me. Her description of all the white conversion vans coming and going, and often filling up the cult-de-sac, were entertaining! I wonder who will move into the Tool's old house (or has already)? Will they find hidden rooms filled with overlooked costumes?

Excellent, appropriate new word!

[debrand]

Ohforcryin'outloud -- the figure in the upper right corner is the mom. Her eyes are closed (cannot believe the women-oppressors didn't appreciate that demure look!) and her nose and smile are bigger than those of the three children. I haven't seen the film, probably won't, but just looking at that still – it's so obvious.

It was obvious to me also. My guess is because her hair is short and not long,Kimberly assumed she was male; however, she has the smaller features and more feminine look that Disney uses for female cartoons. She wanted there to be some hidden homosexulaity and she invented it.

[snarkopolis]

Sorry, didn't mean to give a wrong impression! I didn't actually believe they'd do something of the sort. Many of the questions stated there were rhetorical and/or tongue-in-cheek, just ranting a bit about all the rhetoric regarding the Christian Reconstructionist ideal of enforcing death penalties where Mosaic law required it. I remember distinctly a long conversation with R. Glick (of NCFIC) in which he argued that said penalties were indeed Biblical and given the opportunity, the gov't should enforce them...

I enjoy guns – I've shot everything from an AK to a drum-mag 12-gauge to a variety of handguns, and just suggested to a young lady who had been followed/accosted on a number of occasions that she carry – but certain aspects of *gun culture* are creepy – the us vs. them mentality, that everyone's out to get you, etc. Maybe it's just the ones I've known personally.

Oh wow; gritting my teeth. Props to the aforementioned for having the courage to bring it up, though.

Can someone explain to me why the "CHRISTIAN RECONSTRUCTIONIST" movement is so concerned with Mosaic law? Shouldn't they be concerned with what jesus CHRIST said? You know, the whole CHRISTIAN thing and all? SMDH!

[uber frau]

Because it's not about the 'Christ' bit (don't go dragging him into all this and confusing everybody),, it's about clinging to black and white rules that will prevent the insecure little privileged mummies boys from slipping from the what they perceive to be top of the manure heap.

In their eyes Bible= Rules and Bible= Christian. Therefore, Rules=Christian. SODRT fail. Someone should explode their little minds by demonstrating with a Venn diagram.

[Sister Mozz]

SSB has their first post up: spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/03/16/attempting-to-set-the-doug-phillips-record-straight-the-puzzle/