Maxwells: How not to be a Pharisee

[Curious]

No reason to be snarky. :?

There is irony or something here :whistle:

I know people are used to my 10,000 word explanations (done in part because if I use 10,000 words there are no words left for anyone to *assume* anything :mrgreen: and partly because I am just a verbose typer..I own it) when a sentence will do, but that doesn't mean that the mods/admins that choose to take a less verbose route are being "short" or "snarky" or "snappy" or . It just means they are succinct :)

Given the amount of wit we have on this forum, if anyone is being snarky, they could do a whole lot better than what the mods/admins come up with when preforming their administrative type duties.

Some people get a little antsy when threads are moved/disappeared (even temporarily). I don't particularly blame them, given the way other forums handle moderation. We try to be pretty open about why we have moved something and when/if it will be coming back and why it won't, if that is the case. Three and done was just pointing out that if the full information had been given in the OP, it wouldn't have been pulled at all because it was only the illusion that it was a *private* conversation that caused the reaction.

She was just passing along information for next time and for other users to note. Posting private information is one of our few zero tolerance rules. We usually are willing to work on a case by case basis for most rules, if a person needs an exception because people are not made in a factory and it's hard to have a one size fits all rule when people aren't made that way. We have several rules that don't work that way though and the strict enforcement is perhaps newish for some older members.

I have now proven my point that I can't answer something simple with a short sentence, so I bid you all adieu :)

ROFL EDIT: because succulent is not the same as succinct. I cannot vouch for the succulence of any of our mods/admins!

[kpmom]

Where the hell do the Maxwells, of all people, come off claiming not to be judgmental?

They've spent the whole of their children's lives keeping them away from, well, everybody, because they are so intolerant of people unlike them.

Here is a quote from one of their very earliest blog posts, from priggish, prudish Christopher (yeah, I 'm being judgmental) about their evening of proselytizing at the county fair;

"We’ve been thanking the Lord for the opportunities He has given to share and for putting this outreach idea on Nathan’s heart (just think of all the past years that we weren’t seeking to share at and of all the Fairs across the nation that have no one on-site to share the Gospel!). Although it is not a particularly pleasant project: the expense, the logistics of cooling and transporting so much soda/water, the hassle of setting up and tearing down each evening, the drive time, the hot and muggy weather, and, on top of that, the way people choose to dress."

Poor, poor Christopher (who was in his mid to late 20's when he wrote this) having to see human beings choosing to dress in shorts and tank tops. Oh, the humanity!

But, they're not judging! No, not at all.

And that's just one of zillions of similar comments they've made.

What asshats.

[Curious]

Where the hell do the Maxwells, of all people, come off claiming not to be judgmental?

They've spent the whole of their children's lives keeping them away from, well, everybody, because they are so intolerant of people unlike them.

Here is a quote from one of their very earliest blog posts, from priggish, prudish Christopher (yeah, I 'm being judgmental) about their evening of proselytizing at the county fair;

"We’ve been thanking the Lord for the opportunities He has given to share and for putting this outreach idea on Nathan’s heart (just think of all the past years that we weren’t seeking to share at and of all the Fairs across the nation that have no one on-site to share the Gospel!). Although it is not a particularly pleasant project: the expense, the logistics of cooling and transporting so much soda/water, the hassle of setting up and tearing down each evening, the drive time, the hot and muggy weather, and, on top of that, the way people choose to dress."

Poor, poor Christopher (who was in his mid to late 20's when he wrote this) having to see human beings choosing to dress in shorts and tank tops. Oh, the humanity!

But, they're not judging! No, not at all.

And that's just one of zillions of similar comments they've made.

What asshats.

I'm having trouble articulating my thought at the moment, but this kind of attitude annoys me. They picked the venue they were going to annoy do outreach at, so they probably had some idea how people were going to be dressed. If that was a problem for them, they should have picked a different venue where the clothing choices would run more to their tastes due to the environment/setting.

It's kind of like going to a strip club and complaining there are naked people there.

[Coconut Flan]

They know that. It's just another way for Steve to teach his family how superior his way is. We are not like them - praise the Lord. :pray:

Stevehovah version of scripture.

[sparkles]

I'm having trouble articulating my thought at the moment, but this kind of attitude annoys me. They picked the venue they were going to annoy do outreach at, so they probably had some idea how people were going to be dressed. If that was a problem for them, they should have picked a different venue where the clothing choices would run more to their tastes due to the environment/setting.

It's kind of like going to a strip club and complaining there are naked people there.

They stopped going to the fair after two years, I think, because they felt the risks of exposing the precious Maxwell spawn to immodestly dressed fairgoers far outweighed their need to proselytize. Far be it for the Maxwells to sully themselves by venturing outside their self-imposed bubble. Talk about preaching to the choir...

[RachelB]

I'm having trouble articulating my thought at the moment, but this kind of attitude annoys me. They picked the venue they were going to annoy do outreach at, so they probably had some idea how people were going to be dressed. If that was a problem for them, they should have picked a different venue where the clothing choices would run more to their tastes due to the environment/setting.

It's kind of like going to a strip club and complaining there are naked people there.

I think they set their children up to be overwhelmed, shocked, and horrified by the world, so they will want nothing to do with it, other than to pray for it from the "safety" of their own home.

[bekkah]

Let's see. Pharisees were people who loved their man-made rules and did not love the sinner. Hmm, Maxhell is perfect then for a Pharisee!

[Handmaiden of Dog]

As our children grew, we explained to them biblically why we did what we did, but we let them know those were our decisions and that each family must make their own decisions before the Lord. We also told them that it wasn’t their place to tell others what was right and what was wrong, especially since they were children.

My guess is "the children" are still not allowed to tell others (Steve, Teri) what is right and what is wrong. Can't have anyone calling attention to Steve's mistakes.

It's funny that the Maxwells and Mary Magdalen came up in discussion at my house today. I was telling my headship about Steve and he asked "How many people does he think he is going to meet in heaven? 5?" And then I wondered what about the sinners that Jesus met such as Mary Magdalen. Does Steve believe a woman who sucked cock for a living will share heaven with him?

[FloraKitty35]

It should read: "How to Be a Pharisee". If the Maxwell clan aren't a tribe of Pharisees than I don't what is. :roll:

[Hane]

I wondered what about the sinners that Jesus met such as Mary Magdalen. Does Steve believe a woman who sucked cock for a living will share heaven with him?

Biblical quibble here: The Mary Magdalene of the Bible was NOT a prostitute. Neither the woman who was about to be stoned for adultery nor the prostitute who washed Jesus's feet with her hair was Mary Magdalene--neither of them was identified with a name. The Biblical figure of Mary Magdalene was a prominent woman who supported the ministry of Jesus. [/rant over]

[Childless]

Biblical quibble here: The Mary Magdalene of the Bible was NOT a prostitute. Neither the woman who was about to be stoned for adultery nor the prostitute who washed Jesus's feet with her hair was Mary Magdalene--neither of them was identified with a name. The Biblical figure of Mary Magdalene was a prominent woman who supported the ministry of Jesus. [/rant over]

Thank you! It irks me when people get that wrong.

[Vex]

My favourite part is where they say disciplining their children is an ongoing thing. Their ADULT children are disciplined. Who else but Stevehovah uses the word 'discipline' in the context of talking to their grown offspring about their behaviour?

[formergothardite]

So they would rather the fair people go to hell than the Maxwell children see people who don't dress in a way that Steve approves of?

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Thank you! It irks me when people get that wrong.

Oh dear. Wonder how I got that wrong-- Jesus Christ Superstar, maybe?

At any rate I wonder if poor little [nameless] foot-washing prostitute will be in heaven with Steve. I don't actually believe in heaven but Steve's construct makes me curious. I know if questioned he would blather on about leaving judgement to God but I get the feeling in his heart of hearts that he judges everyone and few, a miniscule amount, would share his heaven.

I also question whether he is satisfied with his own sanctity or if he is still trying to attain a higher level of purity. Had he lived a few hundred years ago he would be the perfect candidate for self-flagellation and a hair shirt. I don't see how much more control he can exert over his family but what of his own flesh? What if the family income drops drastically in the next few years, what psychotic behaviors will he be driven to?

[YPestis]

Well, it's been said for years that the Maxwells live a very un-Christian lifestyle. They occasionally leave their house for ministry with pre-approved audiences and those that are least likely to question or influence them. Nursing home ministry? Going on their own conferences in churches? Yeah, I'm sure that's equivalent to dining with prostitutes.

The Maxwells shy away from associating, however tangentially, with people that may offer them a different perspective. They would never do anything with the local public schools, or associate with non-Christian organizations, or let their (adult) children rub shoulders with people close to their own age. Even the men's shelter ministry consists of the boys, all going together, to preach to the homeless. The Maxwells only preach from their high throne if they have to tangle with the unwashed. The family believe they are being good Christians because they help the poor by preaching to them, which is incredibly arrogant. They think they are doing good deeds because they bake cakes and sing carols. They were asked about how isolation is Christian, to which they replied it was to protect their children, which is their first priority, above evangelizing or ministering to outsiders. Well, the kids are all grown up and I don't see Steve stepping out beyond his safe confines. So much for doing it for the children's sake, Steve.

[nausicaa]

Well, it's been said for years that the Maxwells live a very un-Christian lifestyle. They occasionally leave their house for ministry with pre-approved audiences and those that are least likely to question or influence them. Nursing home ministry? Going on their own conferences in churches? Yeah, I'm sure that's equivalent to dining with prostitutes.

The Maxwells shy away from associating, however tangentially, with people that may offer them a different perspective. They would never do anything with the local public schools, or associate with non-Christian organizations, or let their (adult) children rub shoulders with people close to their own age. Even the men's shelter ministry consists of the boys, all going together, to preach to the homeless. The Maxwells only preach from their high throne if they have to tangle with the unwashed. The family believe they are being good Christians because they help the poor by preaching to them, which is incredibly arrogant. They think they are doing good deeds because they bake cakes and sing carols. They were asked about how isolation is Christian, to which they replied it was to protect their children, which is their first priority, above evangelizing or ministering to outsiders. Well, the kids are all grown up and I don't see Steve stepping out beyond his safe confines. So much for doing it for the children's sake, Steve.

I can't remember what blog post it was, but in one Steve tells a very over the top story about how he was watching a mountain climbing video with his children in the room and the opening scene involved another religion (he was vague but I'm assuming something taking place in a Buddhist temple, discussing the importance of Everest and K2 to Nepal). He continued watching because he really wanted to see the rest of the video, but he is wracked with guilt at exposing his children to what he did.

All I could think while reading it was, Dude, anyone who can be corrupted by a ten minute exposure to a show that merely acknowledges that ANOTHER RELIGION EXISTS IN THE WORLD (!!!) never had much faith to speak of in the first place.

You want to show me how devout and strong you are in your brand of Christianity, Steve? Go offer help to prostitutes standing on street corners in the bad parts of town in the middle of the night. Volunteer at a men's homeless shelter where you will be exposed to all sorts of language and uncomfortable ethical choices. Travel the world and learn about all of the different religions and cultures it contains. Surround yourself with people of all different beliefs and backgrounds who constantly challenge you. Because if you were as solid with Jesus and his promises as you say you are, none of that would destroy your faith.

[tigerchild]

Oh dear. Wonder how I got that wrong-- Jesus Christ Superstar, maybe?

I think that reducing a woman to prostitution as a way to minimize her has been a common tactic of the church. I was taught in church that Mary Magdalene was probably a prostitute. And then she was promptly ignored other than a device by which Jesus' mercy that even a whore could be saved. I think this belief is pretty common amongst a lot of American christians at least, fundie or not.

[lilith]

I can't remember what blog post it was, but in one Steve tells a very over the top story about how he was watching a mountain climbing video with his children in the room and the opening scene involved another religion (he was vague but I'm assuming something taking place in a Buddhist temple, discussing the importance of Everest and K2 to Nepal). He continued watching because he really wanted to see the rest of the video, but he is wracked with guilt at exposing his children to what he did.

All I could think while reading it was, Dude, anyone who can be corrupted by a ten minute exposure to a show that merely acknowledges that ANOTHER RELIGION EXISTS IN THE WORLD (!!!) never had much faith to speak of in the first place.

You want to show me how devout and strong you are in your brand of Christianity, Steve? Go offer help to prostitutes standing on street corners in the bad parts of town in the middle of the night. Volunteer at a men's homeless shelter where you will be exposed to all sorts of language and uncomfortable ethical choices. Travel the world and learn about all of the different religions and cultures it contains. Surround yourself with people of all different beliefs and backgrounds who constantly challenge you. Because if you were as solid with Jesus and his promises as you say you are, none of that would destroy your faith.

They can't minister to prostitutes and addicts and the homeless, they don't make a pretty backdrop for staged photos with wide smiles and dead eyes, and they aren't usually "sweet". And what is the point of "ministry" without that?

Thought I just had - you could pose Poor Sarah next to a long time heroin addict and Sarah's eyes would still be deader than the addicts.

[sparkles]

I can't remember what blog post it was, but in one Steve tells a very over the top story about how he was watching a mountain climbing video with his children in the room and the opening scene involved another religion (he was vague but I'm assuming something taking place in a Buddhist temple, discussing the importance of Everest and K2 to Nepal). He continued watching because he really wanted to see the rest of the video, but he is wracked with guilt at exposing his children to what he did.

All I could think while reading it was, Dude, anyone who can be corrupted by a ten minute exposure to a show that merely acknowledges that ANOTHER RELIGION EXISTS IN THE WORLD (!!!) never had much faith to speak of in the first place.

You want to show me how devout and strong you are in your brand of Christianity, Steve? Go offer help to prostitutes standing on street corners in the bad parts of town in the middle of the night. Volunteer at a men's homeless shelter where you will be exposed to all sorts of language and uncomfortable ethical choices. Travel the world and learn about all of the different religions and cultures it contains. Surround yourself with people of all different beliefs and backgrounds who constantly challenge you. Because if you were as solid with Jesus and his promises as you say you are, none of that would destroy your faith.

Aaaand....here you go. It's one of my faves and one of the first corners I remember reading. The what-the-fuckery is over the top.

web.archive.org/web/19990921085137/http://www.titus2.com/Corners/frame1.htm

Hmm, the Wayback Mahcine's acting up so if the link doesn't bring up the corner in the right hand frame, it's this one: April, 1999, Dad's Corner - Guarding Hearts - A Real Life Situation

[anjulibai]

That corner is just another proof of what a pathetic man Steve really is.

[Coconut Flan]

How to not use a teachable moment. This is how other people worship. Let's look up their religion. Simply ignore the curse word or say we don't talk like that. He's such a pitiful, mean-spirited, scared little man.

[twin2]

When the little ones were in bed, I chose to preview them, so we carried the TV and VCR out of the downstairs closet. To my amazement, the opening scene began in a temple where one of the climbers was lighting candles. Ugh!

OH NO!! Not candles! Anything but lighting candles!!

It's done. Clearly Steve is now going to hell for the sin of watching someone light candles in a temple.

:roll:

[Miggy]

Apologies to everyone reading for the confusion earlier over public/private. Steve's post is publicly available on the blog. Since I posted on their blog and received Creating Great Conversationalists, I have been emailed a copy of everything they post on their blog. I don't appreciate an email box full of Maxwell and get snarky about it. I worded my original post very poorly so again, apologies.

[halcionne]

OH NO!! Not candles! Anything but lighting candles!!

It's done. Clearly Steve is now going to hell for the sin of watching someone light candles in a temple.

:roll:

AND for exposing the "three oldest children," who, by my calculation, were ages 17, 19, and 22 at the time. :pink-shock: :naughty: :angry-banghead:

[allyisyourpally5]

Hang on, steve wrote "ugh!" To candles??? Why?

I undestand that this is likely a very stupid question.