Nathaniel Darnell is courting

[formergothardite]

My theological position was reenforced by two propositions from sodomite men that made me nearly puke. :pink-shock:

Now you know how gay people who are shamed into hiding who they are and are forced into marriages with a person they aren't sexually attracted to feel.

[RachelB]

My theological position was reenforced by two propositions from sodomite men that made me nearly puke. :pink-shock:

If you're not interested, "No, thank you" will suffice. You don't owe an explanation for not being interested. Nor do you need to treat someone as if their existence is revolting, even if you find them unattractive.

But then my theological position is that other people are fellow human beings, whether we like the same things or not, and I ought to act accordingly.

[meda]

My theological position was reenforced by two propositions from sodomite men that made me nearly puke. :pink-shock:

receiving unwanted sexual propositions is generally not a fun thing, however using your logic I as a straight woman should now be a lesbian and/or hate all men because I have received propositions from men I was not interested in.

It does not advance your argument to say that all of group x are a certain way simply because you have experienced a couple members of group x acting a certain way.

[CloakNDagger]

receiving unwanted sexual propositions is generally not a fun thing, however using your logic I as a straight woman should now be a lesbian and/or hate all men because I have received propositions from men I was not interested in.

It does not advance your argument to say that all of group x are a certain way simply because you have experienced a couple members of group x acting a certain way.

Never said that. I just think it' wrong, just like I think that what Doug did to Hero is wrong. I believe that there is a moral standard that excludes both from being OK. Did it seem wrong to him? Maybe, because he tried so hard to cover it, but it's wrong whether he thought it was wrong or not.

[debrand]

Never said that. I just think it' wrong, just like I think that what Doug did to Hero is wrong. I believe that there is a moral standard that excludes both from being OK. Did it seem wrong to him? Maybe, because he tried so hard to cover it, but it's wrong whether he thought it was wrong or not.

There is a difference between consenting and nonconsenting sex and there is a difference in the relationship between equals. If a gay teacher propositions a student, that is wrong. If two male teachers have sex, that is not wrong. What makes the sex act wrong is lack of consent and the imbalance of power that occurs when a person in a superior position takes advantage of someone vulnerable.

[CloakNDagger]

There is a difference between consenting and nonconsenting sex and there is a difference in the relationship between equals. If a gay teacher propositions a student, that is wrong. If two male teachers have sex, that is not wrong. What makes the sex act wrong is lack of consent and the imbalance of power that occurs when a person in a superior position takes advantage of someone vulnerable.

Well, if DP had sex with a 29 year old emancipated female, it still would've been wrong, even if she was consenting. If there is no objective standard, no right and wrong, no higher authority, then really, who cares?

In case you're wondering, I have a business associate that I strongly consider to be "gay." I haven't said a word to him about it even though am in a situation where I have to sit next to him on occasion. I'm annoyed by it, but I don't make a stink about it.

[formergothardite]

Well, if DP had sex with a 29 year old emancipated female, it still would've been wrong, even if she was consenting. If there is no objective standard, no right and wrong, no higher authority, then really, who cares?

In case you're wondering, I have a business associate that I strongly consider to be "gay." I haven't said a word to him about it even though am in a situation where I have to sit next to him on occasion. I'm annoyed by it, but I don't make a stink about it.

As an atheist can I just say that this drives me crazy. Like without a god I am suddenly going to run out and murder/rape/rob people. If your "higher authority" is the only thing that is keeping you from doing bad things then you have some major issues. A man cheating on his wife hurts people. Two consenting gay adults getting married hurts nobody.

Sitting next to a potential gay person annoys you. Why? Do you think he is going to rape you? Will you get gay cooties? Would a lesbian annoy you?

[teachergirl]

so if something happened to Mercy his sister, would he still want three witnesses? How awful to think that your brother would think so low of you? I wonder what they deal is with her? Don't know much about the other siblings.

[RachelB]

As an atheist can I just say that this drives me crazy. Like without a god I am suddenly going to run out and murder/rape/rob people. If your "higher authority" is the only thing that is keeping you from doing bad things then you have some major issues. A man cheating on his wife hurts people. Two consenting gay adults getting married hurts nobody.

Sitting next to a potential gay person annoys you. Why? Do you think he is going to rape you? Will you get gay cooties? Would a lesbian annoy you?

Thank you, formergothardite. I'm not an atheist, but that train of thought bothers me, too.

[treemom]

Well, if DP had sex with a 29 year old emancipated female, it still would've been wrong, even if she was consenting. If there is no objective standard, no right and wrong, no higher authority, then really, who cares?

In case you're wondering, I have a business associate that I strongly consider to be "gay." I haven't said a word to him about it even though am in a situation where I have to sit next to him on occasion. I'm annoyed by it, but I don't make a stink about it.

I sit by straight men all the time. What exactly is there to be annoyed about? Even if it is sinful?

[RachelB]

Well, if DP had sex with a 29 year old emancipated female, it still would've been wrong, even if she was consenting. If there is no objective standard, no right and wrong, no higher authority, then really, who cares?

In case you're wondering, I have a business associate that I strongly consider to be "gay." I haven't said a word to him about it even though am in a situation where I have to sit next to him on occasion. I'm annoyed by it, but I don't make a stink about it.

In some denominations, there are rules against clergy being romantically and/or sexually involved with members of their congregation, because the nature of the pastoral relationship-- like the therapeutic relationship-- puts the member seeking guidance from the pastor in an inherently vulnerable position. And those rules are enforced.

In both the denominations I've attended as an adult, someone who did what Doug Phillips did would be unable to work for the denomination again, because he or she couldn't be trusted not to misuse a position of authority. This is, IMO, something we handle better than non-denominational traditions.

[CloakNDagger]

In both the denominations I've attended as an adult, someone who did what Doug Phillips did would be unable to work for the denomination again, because he or she couldn't be trusted not to misuse a position of authority. This is, IMO, something we handle better than non-denominational traditions.

A shockingly Biblical concept! :roll:

[ladyamylynn]

Well, if DP had sex with a 29 year old emancipated female, it still would've been wrong, even if she was consenting. If there is no objective standard, no right and wrong, no higher authority, then really, who cares?

In case you're wondering, I have a business associate that I strongly consider to be "gay." I haven't said a word to him about it even though am in a situation where I have to sit next to him on occasion. I'm annoyed by it, but I don't make a stink about it.

Why are we tolerating this bigoted twit, again? Because he's anonymously dropping some tender morsels of unsubstantiated gossip? Srsly.

[CloakNDagger]

Why are we tolerating this bigoted twit, again? Because he's anonymously dropping some tender morsels of unsubstantiated gossip? Srsly.

Hmmm. I guess I'm dammed if I do answer, and probably equally if I don't. OK. I'm a big boy and can handle it. You seriously wouldn't expect me to NOT have some of these ideas if I was a disgusted former member of the group would you?

[ladyamylynn]

Hmmm. I guess I'm dammed if I do answer, and probably equally if I don't. OK. I'm a big boy and can handle it. You seriously wouldn't expect me to NOT have some of these ideas if I was a disgusted former member of the group would you?

It wasn't a question for you.

[treemom]

Hmmm. I guess I'm dammed if I do answer, and probably equally if I don't. OK. I'm a big boy and can handle it. You seriously wouldn't expect me to NOT have some of these ideas if I was a disgusted former member of the group would you?

I just don't understand your "there is someone who I really think might be gay (ew gross) and I have never said anything to him, even though sometimes I have to sit by him (how annoying)" as if that somehow will buy you acceptance.

Even if, being gay is actually this terrible sinful horrible thing, what the actual fuck is up with being annoyed because you have to sit with them.

And how exactly are you so superior?

And are you familiar at all with the parable of The Good Samaritan? Or do you think Jesus was totally cool with people being annoyed to sit by someone?

[formergothardite]

Hmmm. I guess I'm dammed if I do answer, and probably equally if I don't. OK. I'm a big boy and can handle it. You seriously wouldn't expect me to NOT have some of these ideas if I was a disgusted former member of the group would you?

As a former member of a anti-gay fundie belief system of course I expect you to have them. I'm also assuming you are an adult since you are registered here. Going "Eww gross, I might have to sit next to a gay person" is extremely childish. You aren't a big boy, you are an adult man, act like one.

If your religious beliefs require you to act like a small child and be incapable of defending them, you most likely need to rethink them.

[debrand]

Well, if DP had sex with a 29 year old emancipated female, it still would've been wrong, even if she was consenting. If there is no objective standard, no right and wrong, no higher authority, then really, who cares?

In case you're wondering, I have a business associate that I strongly consider to be "gay." I haven't said a word to him about it even though am in a situation where I have to sit next to him on occasion. I'm annoyed by it, but I don't make a stink about it.

I'm glad that you asked. After becoming atheist, I began to question what my views on sexual activity. After all, when you are religious, you often have a lot of restrictions on who you can and can't have sex. In your example, DP still has a wife who he promised to be faithful. If you give your word, you should keep it. No one forced DP to enter into a monogamous relationship so it is wrong for him to have an affair because of the dishonesty.( Hopefully, you didn't ignore everything after the word, atheist.)

[formergothardite]

I remember back in my fundie days it was always implied and sometimes just said outright that people without a god had no morals. If this is CND first experience really talking to non-religious people I can see why he probably still thinks this. Hopefully he is willing to actually learn about people who aren't like him and not just mindlessly believe the stuff he has been told.

I don't believe that there is no right and wrong and I do care when people get hurt. Doug Phillips hurt people with his actions, so I don't need a god to realize that what he did was wrong.

[Palimpsest]

I remember back in my fundie days it was always implied and sometimes just said outright that people without a god had no morals. If this is CND first experience really talking to non-religious people I can see why he probably still thinks this. Hopefully he is willing to actually learn about people who aren't like him and not just mindlessly believe the stuff he has been told.

I don't believe that there is no right and wrong and I do care when people get hurt. Doug Phillips hurt people with his actions, so I don't need a god to realize that what he did was wrong.

Yes. CND is a product of his upbringing. In fact, according to his upbringing, it is not just atheist or non-religious people who have no ethical or moral sense, it is also all religious people who don't subscribe to the exact beliefs of his particular "Church." I'm not surprised by his bigotry and homophobia.

I have to say that when I read this bit:

In case you're wondering, I have a business associate that I strongly consider to be "gay." I haven't said a word to him about it even though am in a situation where I have to sit next to him on occasion. I'm annoyed by it, but I don't make a stink about it.

My immediate reaction was FFS! He knows not where he posts! Given his limited experience, I think he actually expected to be praised for his exceptional broadmindedness and tolerance for NOT confronting his business acquaintance, for sitting next to him even though he is iccky, and for not making a stink! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Unless he commits a bannable offense against the TOS he can post here. We can put him on ignore if we want.

We also don't need to tolerate his bigotry and can slap him down as needed if we want too. He needs educating. A lot of educating.

But remember, recovering from the misinformation and bigotry he has imbibed all his life will take time. It won't be easy for him.

[WonderingInWA]

Yes. CND is a product of his upbringing. In fact, according to his upbringing, it is not just atheist or non-religious people who have no ethical or moral sense, it is also all religious people who don't subscribe to the exact beliefs of his particular "Church." I'm not surprised by his bigotry and homophobia.

I have to say that when I read this bit:

My immediate reaction was FFS! He knows not where he posts! Given his limited experience, I think he actually expected to be praised for his exceptional broadmindedness and tolerance for NOT confronting his business acquaintance, for sitting next to him even though he is iccky, and for not making a stink! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Unless he commits a bannable offense against the TOS he can post here. We can put him on ignore if we want.

We also don't need to tolerate his bigotry and can slap him down as needed if we want too. He needs educating. A lot of educating.

But remember, recovering from the misinformation and bigotry he has imbibed all his life will take time. It won't be easy for him.

I don't know. I still think he might be a troll, trying to stir up the hive here. Guess time will tell.

[formergothardite]

Yes. CND is a product of his upbringing. In fact, according to his upbringing, it is not just atheist or non-religious people who have no ethical or moral sense, it is also all religious people who don't subscribe to the exact beliefs of his particular "Church." I'm not surprised by his bigotry and homophobia.

I have to say that when I read this bit:

My immediate reaction was FFS! He knows not where he posts! Given his limited experience, I think he actually expected to be praised for his exceptional broadmindedness and tolerance for NOT confronting his business acquaintance, for sitting next to him even though he is iccky, and for not making a stink! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Unless he commits a bannable offense against the TOS he can post here. We can put him on ignore if we want.

We also don't need to tolerate his bigotry and can slap him down as needed if we want too. He needs educating. A lot of educating.

But remember, recovering from the misinformation and bigotry he has imbibed all his life will take time. It won't be easy for him.

I was reminded of the time the fundie came here and expected pats on the back for smiling at someone who might have been gay. :lol: That is how warped these sheltered fundies' world view is. They expect praise for being a decent human and not being a bully.

It does usually take a long time to recover from the misinformation, bigotry and hate that has been taught since childhood, but lots of us here have done it. Having conversations with people who don't believe like you do and having to defend your beliefs is a great first step in overcoming religious brainwashing.

[Palimpsest]

I don't know. I still think he might be a troll, trying to stir up the hive here. Guess time will tell.

Oh, he could definitely be a troll. That is why I think it is best for us not to get all upset about his bigotry, just to identify it as what it is. He could learn from discussion here. Or he could choose not to learn.

He says he is not trying to impose his beliefs on us. Well, thanks, CND. Let's keep it that way! 8-)

He actually hasn't brought any tender morsels here that I can remember. He has just given his opinion, which we can take or leave, on a few tender morsels we've uncovered elsewhere. I'm not taking anything he says as truth, just as his opinion, whether he calls it FACT! or not.

[formergothardite]

He isn't trying to impose his beliefs on us? Great! I'm so glad he would vote for gay marriage.

[hoipolloi]

Time will tell whether nor not CND is a troll or educable.