Bad Essay on Harry Potter and Feminism

[Conuly]

(Another example of show don't tell: she had this whole rant about calling girls fat on her website years ago, yet she pretty consistently and cartoonishly depicts baddies as being ugly and fat. Voldemort isn't fat and neither is Snape, but that doesn't eliminate the trend.

Another example of bad world-building: she's awful at maths, but even the overall big picture concepts of it. The possible range of the wizarding population of Britain is, like, 1000 to 100,000, or something, depending on what features of the book you extrapolate it from? Which is a fucking insane amount of ambiguity. So you look at the way their main shops work, and you'd expect their government to work a certain way based on that, but nope! It's something completely different.

Example: Harry's grade, there are five Gryffindor boys, three G girls, 5 Slytherin boys, 3 S girls, and pff who cares about the other houses, so there's 112 students in the entire school, 150, being a little generous? But she says there's 700, 1000 students? MASSIVE range. How many classes run each day? How many people do you know by face but not by name? Those are important things that build up the atmosphere of your story!

And okay, even assuming there is 1000 students, that means 99% of your 11-18yo population = 1000 people, so even assuming lots and lots of people live past 100, you've got a total population of ... what, 15,000? But the population can sustain about three separate apothecary franchise chains and dozens of quasi-professional Quidditch teams? duuuuuude when you can't figure out what the society is from what you see of it to any real degree of certainty, the picture you are painting is so vague it's dissatisfying)

The "official" number of wizards (after she dropped the 1000 students thing when people pointed out it simply cannot work - and her actual student list is 40 kids in Harry's year, evenly divided up by sex and house) is 6000 in the UK.

6000 people, a large minority of whom have muggle parents (and many more with just ONE muggle parent or one or more muggle grandparents) and we are supposed to believe they're that ignorant of the surrounding world? Sure, if every one of them over the age of 17 lived in Hogsmeade and never left, then that would be possible, but....

(Also, 6000 people is tiny and could in no way support the economy as shown, but that's another rant. I know JKR tries to pass it off with "oh dear. maths....", but if you cannot do basic arithmetic the you simply have to find somebody who can and pay them to do it for you!)

Hermione Granger. Top of her class, best at almost everything... how is that not feminist? She believed she could do anything. Therefor, she did it.

One good role model does not necessarily mean the work, as a whole, is feminist. I could as easily point to silly Lavender and Parvati, stalker Romilda, loony Luna, and PMS-y Cho and conclude that Hermione and Ginny are plainly the exceptions to the rule.

(Also, Hermione is a vindictive bitch. I might be too if I had to deal with Ron and Harry all the time, but wow! The birds, guys? THE BIRDS???)

[FreeJosie]

(Another example of show don't tell: she had this whole rant about calling girls fat on her website years ago, yet she pretty consistently and cartoonishly depicts baddies as being ugly and fat. Voldemort isn't fat and neither is Snape, but that doesn't eliminate the trend.

Another example of bad world-building: she's awful at maths, but even the overall big picture concepts of it. The possible range of the wizarding population of Britain is, like, 1000 to 100,000, or something, depending on what features of the book you extrapolate it from? Which is a fucking insane amount of ambiguity. So you look at the way their main shops work, and you'd expect their government to work a certain way based on that, but nope! It's something completely different.

Example: Harry's grade, there are five Gryffindor boys, three G girls, 5 Slytherin boys, 3 S girls, and pff who cares about the other houses, so there's 112 students in the entire school, 150, being a little generous? But she says there's 700, 1000 students? MASSIVE range. How many classes run each day? How many people do you know by face but not by name? Those are important things that build up the atmosphere of your story!

And okay, even assuming there is 1000 students, that means 99% of your 11-18yo population = 1000 people, so even assuming lots and lots of people live past 100, you've got a total population of ... what, 15,000? But the population can sustain about three separate apothecary franchise chains and dozens of quasi-professional Quidditch teams? duuuuuude when you can't figure out what the society is from what you see of it to any real degree of certainty, the picture you are painting is so vague it's dissatisfying)

I don't know; she does describe all of the Malfoys as attractive people and describes Bellatrix as having once been very beautiful before her years in prison.

[tuckerphez]

I don't know; she does describe all of the Malfoys as attractive people and describes Bellatrix as having once been very beautiful before her years in prison.

Petunia is supposed to be skinny too.

Also Molly is described as plump and Neville is supposed to be chubby and round-faced. Both are unquestionably good guys.

To be honest the only bad guys I can think of that were fat were Dudley, Vernon, and Aunt Marge. And they were awful, but not death eater level evil.

[Patsy]

Not every single goodie is gorgeous, and not every single baddy is hideous, but she does seem to pointedly make ugly baddies. She dwells a lot on how fatty fat piggy Dudley is (there's a line like "his chins wobbled continuously and his piggish eyes darted from side to side as he chewed", like, fuck, okay), how hideous Umbridge is, etc.

Ugly and/or fat baddies: Umbridge, the Carrows, Vernon, Marge, Peter Pettigrew, Millicent Bulstrode, both Crabbe and Goyle, Pansy, Filch, I guess? ....

Ugly and/or fat ambiguous/redeems themselves: Snape, Slughorn, and Dudley, who loses weight and gains "muscle" as he becomes a better person.

Ugly and/or fat good guys: Molly, who is "plump" ... um.... Hagrid? and Neville. Bill and Mad-Eye have Scars of Virtue. Hermione has bad teeth, but nothing that suggests a twisted soul.

Attractive baddies: the Black/Malfoy/Lestrange incest twister, and Tom Riddle when he was young.

Attractive good guys: oh Lord.

[FreeJosie]

This is interesting to think about!

Ugly and/or fat good guys: Lupin is always described as lined, grey and prematurely old-looking, Luna is described as goofy-looking with protruding eyes

Attractive baddies: Gilderoy Lockhart, young Gellert Grindlewald

[tuckerphez]

Harry Potter nerd note: Dudley lost weight because he became a boxer, and then used his boxing skills to bully neighborhood children.

He then became good because he and Harry were attacked by dementors and he saw how much of a bully he was.

Hence this bit:

"Fought 'em off, did you, son?" said Uncle Vernon loudly, with the appearance of a man struggling to bring the conversation back onto a plane he understood. "Gave 'em the old one-two, did you?"

"You can't give a dementor the old one-two," said Harry through clenched teeth.

[FreeJosie]

Harry Potter nerd note: Dudley lost weight because he became a boxer, and then used his boxing skills to bully neighborhood children.

He then became good because he and Harry were attacked by dementors and he saw how much of a bully he was.

Hence this bit:

I love that whole exchange in the book...Vernon trying to understand what's going on with "Lord Voldything" and the "dismembers," and Petunia chiming in (to Harry's shock) with "They guard the wizard prison at Azkaban." And all of those dive-bombing owls!

[FJismyheadship]

Okay but seriously did anyone expect Petunia to LET ON that she actually knew ANYTHING about the awarding world?

It was funny, Vernon not having the slightest clue what was going on while Perino Was keeping up

[tuckerphez]

Okay but seriously did anyone expect Petunia to LET ON that she actually knew ANYTHING about the awarding world?

It was funny, Vernon not having the slightest clue what was going on while Perino Was keeping up

That is a great moment. And the best part is when she says, "I heard - that awful boy - telling her about them - years ago" and Harry (and the readers) think she's talking about James, but then we find out two books later that she really meant Snape!

[Conuly]

Who would have believed that Petunia and Harry could find anything to agree on, any common ground at all?

[Rescinded and Mended]

That was not a crowning moment of awesome, it was completely out of character. Up until she faces off with Bellatrix, Molly hasn't even taken off her coat which suggests the entire time that the battle was going on, she was just standing on the sidelines instead of helping. Nowhere in the books is it ever suggested that Molly ever did anything battle-worthy and even armies need support staff which Molly appears to be. Neville and Augusta should have been the ones to defeat Bellatrix.

The entire Remus/Tonks situation strikes me as a girl getting pregnant to land her man. They never talked, never had interaction, and Tonks getting all whiny after Fleur tells Molly off about Bill in the infirmary just bothered me a lot. Fleur and Bill had a lot less interaction, but their relationship felt better-written.

We may differ in our opinion as to whether that was Molly's greatest moment, but I don't honestly feel this was out of character for her. She's written as a strong character throughout the course of the books - Molly's never been one to back down or shy away from saying how she honestly feels at all times, even if she isn't actively engaging in combat.

As for Tonks getting pregnant to land Remus, that would sound more plausible if it had happened before the wedding. But I agree we definitely should have seen more of the "courting" aspect in their dialogue. Too much happens behind the scenes that we can't be certain about. It's interesting that you compared Tonks and Remus to Fleur and Bill in terms of romantic calculation - Fleur and Bill's relationship felt genuine, but there's a scene where Harry notices Fleur sizing Bill up, and she clearly is calculating how to get closer to him, later shown when she gets a job at Gringott's so that she can meet him.

[FJismyheadship]

I believe it was unexpected of Molly but totally on par. She is a mom... plus Ginny was the daughter she always wanted. My take is MAMA BEAR took over at that point. Even if it was out of character, I imagine most of us would do what we could to protect our kids... and being pissed off because someone wad trying to hurt them.

[FreeJosie]

I believe it was unexpected of Molly but totally on par. She is a mom... plus Ginny was the daughter she always wanted. My take is MAMA BEAR took over at that point. Even if it was out of character, I imagine most of us would do what we could to protect our kids... and being pissed off because someone wad trying to hurt them.

Hadn't Fred just died at that point too? (I need to reread book 7; it's been a while and all of the details run together.)

[Megan]

Yes, Fred had just died. And Molly's fear with the war (seen in OotP when she deals with the boggart in Grimmauld Place) was losing her family members. She just had one of her sons die and went through seeing an adopted almost-son (Harry) die. She also lost 2 brothers to the death eaters in the first war, so I feel like her actions at the Battle of Hogwarts were justified.

As an aside - were any of the main characters in HP actually described as attractive in the books? Hermione was deemed unattractive in early books (buck teeth, wild hair) and seemed to have become average/decent later on, though "pretty" when she spent a ton of time (Yule ball). I always assumed Harry was average but picked up admirers thanks to fame - he often had "scrawny" as a descriptor and his hair was supposed to be a mess. Ron was "gangly".

Described as attractive, off the top of my head - the Malfoys, the Blacks (though gone to waste), young Riddle, Lockhart, Diggory, Fleur, Blaise Zabini, Cho Chang, Roger Davies, Ginny, the Patils, Ludo Bagman (I think?), and Angelina.

Mix of good and bad.

[Loveday]

Hadn't Fred just died at that point too? (I need to reread book 7; it's been a while and all of the details run together.)

I just checked, and Fred dies at the end of the Battle of Hogwarts chapter, while Molly's moment with Bellatrix occurs in the middle of The Flaw In The Plan, some pages later. So yes, at that point she'd already lost one child and was damned if she was going to lose another.

And now I have to re-read Book 7! :lol:

[No Cure for Stupid]

(Also, Hermione is a vindictive bitch. I might be too if I had to deal with Ron and Harry all the time, but wow! The birds, guys? THE BIRDS???)

Not just the birds. Consider what she did to Marietta Edgecombe in Order of the Phoenix. Marietta's mother worked at the Ministry of Magic, and when she was afraid her mother would lose her job, she betrayed Dumbledore's Army, a group in which she really didn't want to a part. What happens to her? She is forever scarred by boils that form "SNEAK" on her face for one little mistake she made in defense of her mother. Instead of, you know, a jinx that would keep her from talking about Dumbledore's Army or something like that. So, yep, Hermione's vindictive.

I believe it was unexpected of Molly but totally on par. She is a mom...plus Ginny was the daughter she always wanted. My take is MAMA BEAR took over at that point. Even if it was out of character, I imagine most of us would do what we could to protect our kids... and being pissed off because someone wad trying to hurt them.

It still doesn't work even if you take into account the Mama Bear aspect. A Mama Bear aspect would be something like one quick spell that stops Bellatrix, not a raging battle that splits the floor. Adrenaline only takes you so far, especially since Molly never showed a hint of defensive magic before the show-off. It just seemed to me more along the lines of an evil childless woman versus a "good" mother.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Yes, Fred had just died. And Molly's fear with the war (seen in OotP when she deals with the boggart in Grimmauld Place) was losing her family members. She just had one of her sons die and went through seeing an adopted almost-son (Harry) die. She also lost 2 brothers to the death eaters in the first war, so I feel like her actions at the Battle of Hogwarts were justified.

As an aside - were any of the main characters in HP actually described as attractive in the books? Hermione was deemed unattractive in early books (buck teeth, wild hair) and seemed to have become average/decent later on, though "pretty" when she spent a ton of time (Yule ball). I always assumed Harry was average but picked up admirers thanks to fame - he often had "scrawny" as a descriptor and his hair was supposed to be a mess. Ron was "gangly".

Described as attractive, off the top of my head - the Malfoys, the Blacks (though gone to waste), young Riddle, Lockhart, Diggory, Fleur, Blaise Zabini, Cho Chang, Roger Davies, Ginny, the Patils, Ludo Bagman (I think?), and Angelina.

Mix of good and bad.

I always enjoyed the brief description given about Zabini's mother, something about how she was a fabulously beautiful witch who had at least 2 (or more?) husbands that died under suspicious circumstances and she'd gotten all their money. Supposedly she poisoned them, I need to reread that part again.

I just remembered, in another HP thread I posted something I read online about Lavendar Brown being killed canonically in the last film because JK Rowling had overlooked adding her death at the Battle of Hogwarts to the final book. I did some digging and could not find a single source for this. I even joined Pottermore to try and find info (which is kind of a nightmare to try and navigate, by the way), but found nothing. Might have to chalk that one up to an internet rumor - bummer. :oops:

[FJismyheadship]

Lavender died in the book

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Lavender_Brown

[Rescinded and Mended]

It mentions that she was "feebly stirring," but does not entirely confirm her death. The movie was more specific.

[Megan]

Lavender died in the book

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Lavender_Brown

Harry Potter wikia is pretty awful about canonical sources. They often include movie things in as canon (they once listed Snape as dying in the Hogwarts Boathouse, a place that doesn't even exist in the books...)

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/brown.html

HPL doesn't have her listed as dead, instead noting the line Rescinded and Mended wrote.

[EDIT]: I can spell canon properly.

[FJismyheadship]

Ahh okay sorry.

I looked this up further and there are some people saying JK says Lavender survived... but I honestly can't find it. And if she died, was it from the fall, or from Grayback. If Grayback hurt her and she survived, was she a werewolf?

[Megan]

I suspect someone made up the JKR interview thing about Lavender. Looking at the passage, it seems like Hermione managed to fight off Greyback before he got to Lavender. Had he attacked her, she wouldn't be a werewolf because Greyback was in human form. She'd be like Bill Weasley - he ended up with some weird traits from it but wasn't a werewolf.

/too much Harry Potter

[Rescinded and Mended]

Ahh okay sorry.

I looked this up further and there are some people saying JK says Lavender survived... but I honestly can't find it. And if she died, was it from the fall, or from Grayback. If Grayback hurt her and she survived, was she a werewolf?

Yeah, I hear you, it really is confusing. I was convinced I saw something somewhere about how Rowling admitted that she didn't clarify well enough in the books about Lavendar, so she gave the movie people the green light to put her death in there. But now I literally cannot find a thing about it!

Pottermore is interesting, but it's basically annotated versions of the books. Clicking on each chapter page online is a long and meandering process. I wish Rowling would just release the annotated books in print form - reading them would go a lot faster and be more fun.

[FreeJosie]

I consider Lavender to be alive canonically since she wasn't listed among the dead at the end (like Lupin, Tonks, Fred, Colin, etc). I think she would have been mentioned if JKR had intended for her character to die.

[Confused_by_religion]

I always thought Mrs. Weasly was a cool housewife and mother - employing all the self-slicing knives, doing her housework like magic, making her kids and Harry do their share of housework, and generally being anything but mousy and shy.

I'd also suggest that at least one family in the books had to be a great, loving family to counterbalance Harry's foster family - somewhere where he could experience what family life is like, ideally. A sort of substitute family and mom for Harry, and that would have been the Weasleys. It wouldn't have made so much sense to pick Hermione's family as they were muggles and lots of interesting incidents couldn't have taken place in a muggle family.