Oh, The Horror! Stacy on IMMODESTLY DRESSED WOMEN

[Guest Anonymous]

If a woman asked me to pull up my top, saying "My husband does not need to see that," I might just take my shirt off all together, depending on my mood and the event. That kind of shit is NOT cool with me. Women have boobs. Women have cleavage. Get over it.

I like you!

[liltwinstar]

The attitude of "I can't help my lustful thoughts, thus all women must dress in a way that I find unattractive" just...doesn't make sense to me. Obv, I've never been a man, but is it really so hard to see an attractive woman, acknowledge (to oneself) that she's attractive, and then move on to the rest of the day? Men aren't animals - they do have self control. If they didn't we'd see a lot more eye popping stuff going on in public, right?

My husband is a normal man, yet he manages to go out and about in public and even work in a female-dominated office without having uncontrollable urges. We can even go to the swimming pool! And he manages to keep his hands and thoughts to himself.

(I was once, as a teenager, in the extremely uncomfortable position of hearing a man "confess" to the *entire church* that he'd had lustful thoughts about *all* the women in the church. That was really fun. Some things should just be kept private.)

[Austin]

(I was once, as a teenager, in the extremely uncomfortable position of hearing a man "confess" to the *entire church* that he'd had lustful thoughts about *all* the women in the church. That was really fun. Some things should just be kept private.)

Ewwww. . . keep that to yourself, dude!

[Koala]

for such fine, upstanding christian ladies, they sure are married to a bunch of perverts!

[Rachel333]

Ugh, I hate this stuff. I've decided I really don't care about modesty anymore.

I used to be super hung up on modesty. I wouldn't wear anything sleeveless, and I wouldn't swim without shorts and a t-shirt over my swimsuit (my fundie-lite parents actually didn't agree with either of those things, but I knew a lot of fundies who influenced me that way). Then I got an eating disorder and became even more modest, though for different reasons.

I've decided recently though that I just do not care about modesty anymore. Obviously, some things still aren't appropriate, and I'm still not comfortable enough to wear anything "revealing" (though I did wear a dress recently that would have showed cleavage if, you know, I had any), but I think that if my "brothers" can't walk around the block, that's their own damn fault. It's their responsibility to keep from stumbling.

[CanadianHippie]

Gotta love the photo in that post. Some fundies would hate those dresses. NO SLEEVES.

Hell, I'm an ebil agnostic hippie and my first though when the page loaded was "wait, you are lecturing me about modesty and showing three women who dress less modestly than I do?"

[liltwinstar]

In thinking about this a bit more...ok, if a man really does feel that he has a problem with lust, it would be *his* responsibility to figure out a way to deal with that. I guess I'm thinking of an alcoholic - the person seeking treatment has to take responsibility for his/her actions. If you constantly blame others for your own shortcomings/struggles/addictions, you're not going to get very far. So, in my alcoholic example, someone in recovery is going to, at some point, figure out how to be around alcohol without partaking (say, if invited to a wedding or similar). Not saying that it would be *easy* - I'm sure therapists work with people to develop strategies to help folks in those situations - but it's something that the individual needs to take responsibility for.

With these "lust" situations, the men are told that it's not their fault, that they're not responsible - that's it's the fault of all of us brazen hussies who have the gall to go about our daily lives, dressed in clothes. So the men are given a free pass, essentially, because if they lust, "the woman made me do it." He doesn't have to take responsibility for his own thoughts/actions at all, and the women are blamed for their "lack of modesty" which can mean whatever anyone wants it to mean.

[Kitchen Princess]

Honestly, I believe that some older women are jealous of younger women's lithe bodies, and that's why they overreact to any display of skin.

[CanadianHippie]

don’t seem to be worried about the “weaker sister†who is hurt when she has to sit beside her husband in church with a mini skirt in her face all service.

Anybody else read this and think "what is she doing that another woman's mini skirt is in her face?"

[nutella addict]

Back when I consorted with conservatives fairly frequently, we had a girls discussion on how to dress so as not to needlessly tempt the men, and we were talking about what we knew our friends couldn't stand. One girl said she'd been talking about this with one of her guy friends, and he said zip-up jackets/hoodies, with a garbled explanation about a zipper being so easy to open and wanting to know what's under it. I'd never much thought about what I wore so long as my boobs aren't hanging out and my skirt isn't short enough to show my bum, the usual sorts of things, but that made me even more determined not to bother dressing particularly "modestly" if some guys will still be turned on by a zip-up hoodie of all things. To be fair, since they weren't actually fundies, the guys group had a similar discussion although I'm not sure exactly what was discussed, but certainly they didn't put it all on us, although some of the most conservative girls argued with me when I said boys should have more self-control. I figure the boys that fail that badly at self control have major issues though. Unfortunately I keep having encounters with far too many of them. :/

[Austin]

There are Christian colleges where women eating strawberries or bananas is frowned upon. Too sensual. I'd have to look up which ones, but I know I've seen several sources on that. PCA comes to mind. . .

Seriously, zippers? What a freak. The same could be said with snaps or buttons or any fastener. Perhaps all women should just be sown into burqas :roll:

[nutella addict]

Might be easier to just fold a bedsheet in half, sew the sides together, and cut out a hole for the head, so you can just drape it over yourself when you step out the door. Then you can be sure that even those sensuous wrists and fingers and the shape of your arms is all hidden too, and that they definitely can't see even the shape of those sexy, sexy shoulders.

(We used to make a lot of jokes about how shoulders are sexy in high school because they had to be fully covered under our public school dress code - one person would slowly pull their short sleeves higher and higher and the others would pretend to swoon and say things like "Oh baby". Good times.)

[CanadianHippie]

Might be easier to just fold a bedsheet in half, sew the sides together, and cut out a hole for the head, so you can just drape it over yourself when you step out the door. Then you can be sure that even those sensuous wrists and fingers and the shape of your arms is all hidden too, and that they definitely can't see even the shape of those sexy, sexy shoulders.

(We used to make a lot of jokes about how shoulders are sexy in high school because they had to be fully covered under our public school dress code - one person would slowly pull their short sleeves higher and higher and the others would pretend to swoon and say things like "Oh baby". Good times.)

Silly, men will just stare, waiting for it to ride up, or get caught on something and pull tight. Women should be confined to either their home or a sedan chair to protect a males fragile self-control.

[tinuviel]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a fundy Catholic a few years ago. He had just gone on a few dates (courtship interviews??) with a girl who believed it was more modest to wear skirts all the time. He was telling me how awesome it was that she was so committed and then told me that "it makes her almost more attractive. Because I'm like, crazy to see what she looks like since it's all hidden all the time."

Yup. For every dude who goes crazy for mini-skirts there's at least one who really likes the whole storming the castle to find the secret things approach.

Burkas indeed.

[Hane]

Honestly, I believe that some older women are jealous of younger women's lithe bodies, and that's why they overreact to any display of skin.

YES YES YES!!! I've seen this far too many times: older and/or less attractive women trying to make attractive younger women feel like dirt. My daughter, an elementary school teacher, gets this from colleagues all the time: intrusive questions about her weight and eating habits, snarky comments about her clothing. She just tells them, "I go to the most fantastic bikram yoga studio. Would you like to sign up for classes there?"

[rmac3]

Swim dresses

http://swimmodest.com/modestswimwear.lasso

[Koala]

Swim dresses

http://swimmodest.com/modestswimwear.lasso

I love them, and I would totally wear one! Especially if I could get a solid black one.

I think their reasoning is BEYOND silly, but I am really self conscious right now, and I think I might actually be comfortable in one of those.

If I wasn't so self conscious though, I would be bikini shopping right now :lol:

PS. I have ZERO fashion sense, so cut me a break okay? :P

[emmiedahl]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a fundy Catholic a few years ago. He had just gone on a few dates (courtship interviews??) with a girl who believed it was more modest to wear skirts all the time. He was telling me how awesome it was that she was so committed and then told me that "it makes her almost more attractive. Because I'm like, crazy to see what she looks like since it's all hidden all the time."

My husband thinks my salwar kameez outfits are smoking hot. And I have the looser ones worn in countries that end with -stan as opposed to the more fitted outfits you see in India (which are gorgeous, I just don't have any because I get them from relatives visiting Central Asia). They are very loose, but the embroidery on the kameez (top) is placed to outline your curves subtly. They show nothing but hint at what is underneath and some men are really-really into that.

It's natural for a man to be turned on by a healthy woman, whether she is wearing a burqa or a tiny bikini. Not a big deal, it's totally natural. He doesn't have to ogle to notice it.

Some men find this:

more attractive than this:

so maybe we should start making women wear tight clothes.

[Koala]

and the worst thing is, I now want to order one, but I would never dream of giving $$$ to these nutters.

[debrand]

Oh, I love that first photo!

The woman in the bottom photo is not overweight but her choice of clothing does not emphasis her best point. Poor girl. The photo is an example of the fact that there are many different body types and sometimes what is in style doesn't work for all women.

[emmiedahl]

That was kinda my point, although I was as always too unclear. If the lower photo's lady had been in a salwar, she would have been stunning. They are very flattering and there is no hanging out or bulging. How is it "modest" if a man would look at you and imagine what goodness is under all that fabric?

They are super comfy too. I am way too pale to wear one in public, but in my home they are my summer uniform. So cool and breezy, and easy to breastfeed in.

[tinuviel]

Oh my god, I absolutely love that top photo!! The embroidery is to die for. Too bad I'm too Teutonic to pull it off.

Debrand, I'm always amazed at how much slimmer/better proportioned most women look after "What Not to Wear" makeovers with Clinton and Stacy. Unbelievable what a difference proper fit can make. Convinced me to start shelling out a little bit more for well constructed clothes in smaller quantities rather than big piles of ill-fitting things with a high turnover rate.

[antifundie]

Every time the whole modesty issue comes up, I think of that modesty survey where guys said that cross-body or messenger-style bags turned them on, since the stap goes between the breasts. Ugh.

I swear they think up ways to make life more difficult for women. I purposely bought a cross body bag to use when I'm out and about with my dog--I jokingly call it the "Doggie Diaper Bag"--but yeah, hands free is AWESOME. It's like they never think of the practical reasons for dressing in a particular way, just how it affects THEM.

Hoodies? Easy to tote, and take on and off. Shorts? Cool in the summer. Swimsuit? For, you know, swimming. Jeans? comfy and rugged. Skirts? Breezy or easy to layer. Cleavage? It's there.

Cleavage--I'm large busted. I try to cover it up when I teach BUT I've had several days where I left the house thinking everything was covered to my liking, only to discover that it wasn't. Some of us are so well-endowed that we practically have to wear crew necks 24/7 to cover up the girls.

Somebody needs to tell them that women don't exist for their viewing pleasure/disgust/excitement. We just get up and get dressed for our daily activities, and move on with the day.

There is no telling what will turn a guy on. In college, I wore a (slim-fitting) turtle neck with overalls, and somebody told me THAT was hot. Um, ok...

[emmiedahl]

Cleavage--I'm large busted. I try to cover it up when I teach BUT I've had several days where I left the house thinking everything was covered to my liking, only to discover that it wasn't. Some of us are so well-endowed that we practically have to wear crew necks 24/7 to cover up the girls...

Quoted for truth. Large natural breasts have a mind of their own.

[nutella addict]

And that is why I'm usually happy not to be so "well-endowed" in the busty arena. My boyfriend thinks I'm hot in a large unisex t-shirt and running shorts, even flatter on account of the sports bra. I had a guy in class compliment a thick semi-turtleneck sweater that wasn't particularly tight. I don't think that there IS a way you can dress that won't turn SOMEONE on.

I actually think those modest swimsuits are pretty, although I'm good with my standard bikinis and one-pieces. Cheap, good for different purposes, won't be so bulky in the pool. I once forgot my swimsuit when I went to my boyfriend's house and swam in a sports bra and his spare swimming trunks, and all that extra fabric was heavy! And I looked hilarious and his mum had a good laugh.

That picture is gorgeous, emmiedahl, I love the embroidery! Muffin tops are never very attractive, but sometimes they are hard to avoid, I guess. I wonder if any guys are actually attracted to that? If not, that would be a way to spare the poor wee lads feelings of great lust.

Also I have to say LEGGINGS ARE NOT PANTS. I've seen far too much of far too many girls - many leggings aren't even opaque. Put a long shirt or a dress or a skirt on over, please. It's not so much the issue of it being immodest, but I just don't see how they're attractive. Major pet peeve of mine. If you're exercising that's one thing, but otherwise.... And I suspect much of my wardrobe is "immodest" but really now, I do not need to see your buttcrack, camel toe, or the way your butt cheeks jiggle when you walk. Perhaps that's a bit crude and slightly off topic, but if we're going to talk about modesty and immodesty...

And I freely admit I've got lousy fashion sense, but I do draw a few lines...