The Truth About Ruth - Part 3

[Coconut Flan]

It's easy to do. There is some overlap of symptoms plus a large number of lupus patients develop concurrent fibro. Yet another blessing.

[RealityTVRN]

All of what Abigail just said, plus one thing. People are almost never misdiagnosed as having lupus when they don't. If anyone thinks they might have lupus, please keep getting regular checks of your renal function and red blood cell counts. ANAs and sed rates (ESR) are handy numbers to have too--for most suspected autoimmune disorders.

I think our scammer knows just enough about medicine to fake it in her various blogs, but it simply doesn't read "right" to those who actually know physio and pharmacology.

[Ex 2x2]

It's easy to do. There is some overlap of symptoms plus a large number of lupus patients develop concurrent fibro. Yet another blessing.

Oh my gosh the two together must be a nightmare!!

[Coconut Flan]

Remember the old Disney E ticket rides. We nicknamed lupus as an E ticket thrill ride for life. Fibro is just a bonus feature. :o

What doesn't ring true for PM is getting so much UV going out even at dusk that she ended up in the ER. Either it wasn't truly dusk or she's fabricating things. I think everyone knows which way I'm leaning. If she had to make multiple ER trips for UV exposure then she's one of the dumbest lupus patients in Southern California. You go buy sun protective clothing, cover in sunblock, hide in the shade, etc. Rheumatologists here tell people to do things like that. I'm guessing they do that the world over.

Her stories about the house don't make sense either. The sun doesn't shine equally in all windows in a house at the same time. So in the morning avoid east facing windows and in the afternoon avoid west facing windows. I spend quite a bit of time in a room with a northern exposure. It's safe almost all day even with the drapes open. My kitchen has an southeast exposure and is the only truly troublesome room in the house. Blackout drapes just don't go with the kitchen so we filmed that window. It has curtains over it but it took both curtains and film to make it tolerable before about noon to 1 PM.

[Rescinded and Mended]

First, I'm so excited to have actually followed something like this in real time. I seems like every time something big happens at FJ, I am too busy to log on (or it's something that happened before my time, and I wade through 200 pages but can't add my comments because, well, who cares two years later?) Of course, sad that it happened (not that she was found out -- that's a great thing -- that she even started with these frauds) but glad I got to follow along.

Some of my thoughts, in no particular order:

When all this started and Lainey was insistent that PM was involved, I admit to being a little irritated (sorry, Lainey). We were going on with these threads and the inconsistencies, and every few pages someone would pop up to say "It's PM" (who I had never heard of before and don't much care about.) I was certain this PM connection was BS. But, I'm convinced. Now when people have theories about who PM may also be, I say bring them. Let OddsEverything check it out if she has the desire. As long as someone's real name/identity is not on the line, it's worth bringing up. I am for exposing the scammer(s).

I am hesitant to bring it up again, but I think that the problem with insulting PM about her bra, it's ineffectiveness, or lack thereof, is the idea that having sagging breasts IS an insult. I'm all for any insults that speak to the actual crimes/snarkable offenses, but insulting bodies insults everyone who has that type of body. It assumes that there is something wrong with the natural sagging of breasts.

Regarding Munchausen in all it's many forms: my husband, who I've only been married to for a few years, has a very serious medical condition. I had a middle class upbringing which has afforded me a great deal of privileged, including education and earning potential. I've owned a very successful business, graduated top of my class (college), earned advanced degrees, etc. There is nothing -- I mean NOTHING -- in my life that has garnered me more attention than having a sick husband. Nothing. When he had surgery a few years ago, his chances of survival were low. The outpouring of concern, attention, affection, gifts, etc. was something I had never seen, never expected. I remember sitting in the hospital waiting room thinking, THIS is how Munchausen happens! If there was a void in my life (there isn't, praises FSM), I could totally see how having a sick relative, especially a child, could fill that void. Granted, for most of us, having a healthy loved one is the only reward we want. But, there are the MckMamas and PMs of the world...

I'm fully in the camp that says MbI or any other condition does not excuse fraud/grifting/whatever you want to call it. This behavior is ethically abhorrent, full stop.

Closed Womb, I totally get you on this. After my son became ill, we had a HUGE outpouring of love, support, presents, etc. from all kinds of people. I've always been grateful for those that have been thinking of us during this ordeal, but I do see where others have taken advantage of such situations.

At the medical facility where my son is treated, families with a sick child can be "adopted" in an organization during the winter holidays by charitable, well-intentioned families on the outside. This includes the sick child posting a small wishlist, usually gifts in the $30 range, and from there, the adoptive family can give as little or as much as it likes to make sure the child has a wonderful holiday.

The problems began when sick families would bring friends and relatives with them to clinic. These outsiders would take the forms and fill them out with requests for gift/phone cards, then submit them to the organization. Not knowing any better, the adoptive families happily filled these requests, not realizing they were being scammed. :(

Nowadays, in order for any sick family to register, they have to provide a doctor's note stating the child's diagnosis. But it makes me ill to think that anyone would use sick children as an excuse to scam kindhearted people.

[Ex 2x2]

All of what Abigail just said, plus one thing. People are almost never misdiagnosed as having lupus when they don't. If anyone thinks they might have lupus, please keep getting regular checks of your renal function and red blood cell counts. ANAs and sed rates (ESR) are handy numbers to have too--for most suspected autoimmune disorders.

I think our scammer knows just enough about medicine to fake it in her various blogs, but it simply doesn't read "right" to those who actually know physio and pharmacology.

This is good to know. Even though these blood tests were normal, I will keep an eye on it in the future! Thanks!

[church_of_dog]

So as she edits her posts, it shows up to the people who are subscribed to her blog? Wow, it sounds like she's remarkably un-tech-savvy for someone who's running an online scam.

I know I'm a few days back/behind on this thread, but just wanted to comment in puzzlement that I have her blog in a feed reader too, and none of her edits have triggered my feed reader to say they are new, hmm. I'm pretty much a novice about how readers work behind the scenes, so obviously there is some explanation for this, just curious to me since her edits are apparently triggering others' feeds.

I also have been wondering about RR's comments, in the last few blog posts she made before the :shit-fan: , where her posts suddenly started showing up as walls of text, and when people commented on how hard that was to read, she apologized and said it was because she was posting from a phone (IIRC, I did not look this up and now those comments are gone so I can't be sure). I just wondered about that as re the whole IP aspect of this. I know that doesn't remove the unlikelihood of the matches, just seemed like a loose end I hadn't seen anyone comment on...

Lastly I wanted to express thanks and my awe to OE and the others who are doing the research on this -- I would be so lost trying to wrestle any certainty out of all the data and speculation -- I'm so impressed at the research being done! I guess I wanted to be a private detective ever since I was a little girl, and never pursued it, and never realized how much I am still intrigued by a good mystery until this debacle came along! So :clap: :clap: good job!!!

[Mama Mia]

Remember the old Disney E ticket rides. We nicknamed lupus as an E ticket thrill ride for life. Fibro is just a bonus feature. :o

What doesn't ring true for PM is getting so much UV going out even at dusk that she ended up in the ER. Either it wasn't truly dusk or she's fabricating things. I think everyone knows which way I'm leaning. If she had to make multiple ER trips for UV exposure then she's one of the dumbest lupus patients in Southern California. You go buy sun protective clothing, cover in sunblock, hide in the shade, etc. Rheumatologists here tell people to do things like that. I'm guessing they do that the world over.

Her stories about the house don't make sense either. The sun doesn't shine equally in all windows in a house at the same time. So in the morning avoid east facing windows and in the afternoon avoid west facing windows. I spend quite a bit of time in a room with a northern exposure. It's safe almost all day even with the drapes open. My kitchen has an southeast exposure and is the only truly troublesome room in the house. Blackout drapes just don't go with the kitchen so we filmed that window. It has curtains over it but it took both curtains and film to make it tolerable before about noon to 1 PM.

What always surprises me about Internet scammers is that they don't describe the diseases and treatments correctly. Cancer, lupus and pneumonia are all fairly common. Some of their readers will at least know someone who has had whatever the illness is. They are obviously online and have access to endless descriptions of how the diseases work.

So you would think that they would describe a literally textbook, if extreme, course of whatever the disease is. Or pick rare diseases. It just doesn't make sense the way they do it. And of course all diseases sometimes have atypical symptoms.....but it seems universal with scammers that they don't describe the diseases and/or treatment correctly. Weird.

[Coconut Flan]

That is a feature of the scammers and the fame seekers and you're right, it's odd. Maybe it's the small details or the nuances that they can't glean from an online article or most books. They can't get the personalized part right because they don't have the real experience. As that author said, it comes across as a caricature. PM probably saw some pictures of a lupus rash and made the leap to it felt like a sunburn because that's the closest experience that she has.

[church_of_dog]

I question anyone being persecuted for being an atheist unless that person is actively involved in pushing atheism on other people. My dearly departed husband was an atheist for most of our marriage yet the only time he encountered any difficulty at all was when he chose to attack someone's religious beliefs or evangelize atheism. Simply saying he didn't believe, didn't go to church, etc, never inspired anyone's ire. It was only when he tried to debunk someone else's beliefs, called them names, got snarky over it, participated in active efforts to push atheism, or belittled religious beliefs that things got dicey. We lived in several parts of the country and state and it was pretty much the same all over.

Agree. I also live in a very conservative and religious area in California (although one big difference from RR/PM/nearly everyone else is that my area is very rural and very sparsely populated -- so the whole idea of being outspoken or an "activist" on any topic kinda works differently when you're in a town of 500 that all pretty much knows each other anyway). I'm an atheist too, and I haven't had any kind of hassle/pressure and know no one in my area who has. Mostly rural folk are polite to each other even if the majority is baffled by my lack of belief and/or lack of church attendance -- yes, actually, all that is obvious to others is that I don't attend church, but I'm not especially vocal about saying what I do or don't believe -- and I don't go around using "Church of Dog" as a label IRL :lol: :lol:

I guess I agree with the posters above who implied that a quietly atheist person is unlikely to get harrassed for their beliefs except by really off-the-deep-end folks -- but an "activist" atheist might attract all sorts of folks put out or annoyed by them.

[Rueinthesky]

Are those families listed anywhere?

Not that I am aware of.

[church_of_dog]

All of what Abigail just said, plus one thing. People are almost never misdiagnosed as having lupus when they don't. If anyone thinks they might have lupus, please keep getting regular checks of your renal function and red blood cell counts. ANAs and sed rates (ESR) are handy numbers to have too--for most suspected autoimmune disorders.

I think our scammer knows just enough about medicine to fake it in her various blogs, but it simply doesn't read "right" to those who actually know physio and pharmacology.

I had been led to understand that lupus is kind of like a catch-all label for a certain subgroup of autoimmune diseases once the specific diseases had been ruled out. I know I'm not saying that clearly but it would be if X, Y and Z specific autoimmune diseases had been ruled out but the person had SOME* autoimmune disease in that category. Kind of like a "not otherwise specified" for that group. I don't know any of this first-hand so someone please correct me if this isn't right. I also have a friend with MS who has said the same thing about MS, that it's a "what's left" diagnosis after the other specific diseases of that group have been eliminated.

* now I'm super self conscious every time I use capitals for emphasis, lol :lol:

ETA: phew, caught up with this thread for the first time in days! :dance: But with a busy Thurs/Fri coming up, I'm sure I'll be way behind again by the weekend, heh...

[Mama Mia]

:o Woah, looking through all the different supposed identities led me to the Gosselin blogs. :shock:

It appears there is an entire galaxy of blogs solely devoted to loving or hating the Gosselins and/or the various blogs and posters. They all seem really interested in calling everyone a fake. Lots and lots and lots of accusations and counter accusations. Crazy, crazy stuff

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Oh, yeah, people die of pneumonia all the time. Young, healthy people most of the time. The thing is, if you're young and healthy, the symptoms of pneumonia just seem like a cold that's dragged on a bit. By the time you show symptoms that inspire you to go to the ER, it is often way too late.

Really? I'm a nurse and all the patients I have known to die of pneumonia have been elderly or immuno compromised (lung transplants, HIV etc)

I could be wrong but in my own 8 years of nursing experience it has Not been the healthy young at all.

[Deesire]

Reading this made me realize I had lupus and Lymes disease conflated in my mind. Apparently, that wasn't so ridiculous because the symptoms for both are terribly similar (according to the one site I consulted -- I didn't pursue this research beyond that so that's far from authoritative).

[FlorenceHamilton]

I had been led to understand that lupus is kind of like a catch-all label for a certain subgroup of autoimmune diseases once the specific diseases had been ruled out. I know I'm not saying that clearly but it would be if X, Y and Z specific autoimmune diseases had been ruled out but the person had SOME* autoimmune disease in that category. Kind of like a "not otherwise specified" for that group. I don't know any of this first-hand so someone please correct me if this isn't right. I also have a friend with MS who has said the same thing about MS, that it's a "what's left" diagnosis after the other specific diseases of that group have been eliminated.

* now I'm super self conscious every time I use capitals for emphasis, lol :lol:

ETA: phew, caught up with this thread for the first time in days! :dance: But with a busy Thurs/Fri coming up, I'm sure I'll be way behind again by the weekend, heh...

Both Lupus and MS are real diseases. Neither of them are "catch all" diagnoses when nothing else is found. Sometimes these sort of autoimmune diseases announce themselves with a very textbook set of signs, symptoms, abnormal lab and radiology tests. Frequently, however, they beging insidiously. Sometimes a person has a positive ANA test (blood test that points toward a Lupus diagnosis) and some troubling symptoms, but has normal kidney function and no clear physical signs. Many physicians consider these patients to have lupus and others hold off and just watch them closely. Some people never progress. Those people may carry the diagnosis of lupus without having severe manifestation and often have the diagnosis withdrawn. MS is progressive. There are very characteristic lesions seen on MRI of the nervous system (spine and brain). Sometimes people have very suggestive symptoms and signs (Hyperreflexia, extreme weakness, muscle spasms, fatiguability) with normal MRI scans. There are also some blood tests and spinal fluid indicators. These people are considered high risk for MS and should be monitored periodically. Most physicians will not make a presumptive diagnosis based on signs and symptoms without some confirmatory testing. In both cases, we do advise patients that they potientially have an autoimmune process and that they need to honor their bodies with a good balance of rest and exercise. They need to stay hydrated, take care with medications and to be immunized against the flu every year and to keep any other immunizations needed up to date.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Really? I'm a nurse and all the patients I have known to die of pneumonia have been elderly or immuno compromised (lung transplants, HIV etc)

I could be wrong but in my own 8 years of nursing experience it has Not been the healthy young at all.

Generally, pneumonia is divided into two classifications, community acquired and institutionally acquired. Pneumonias in the hospitalized or institutionalized folks tends to be with infectious agents that are more serious and resistant to antiboitics. Institutionalized patients tend to be older and sicker. They carry a far worse prognosis than folks who get pnueumonia out in the community.

Some people who get community acquired pneumonia were previously healthy and often they can be treated with close outpatient supervision and do not need to be hospitalized. Because of this, there is little public awareness, unless you are personally affected. (It is still a miserable illness). Some people who get pneumonia in the community already have some level of disease. They may be smokers or diabetic or drink too much alcohol. These folks get sicker and are higher risk for developing long term complications or dying.

All of that said, "generally" doesn't mean always. Although Pneumococcal pneumonia is common and treatable with antibiotics. It can be very aggressive at times and healthy people die. Jim Henson (the father of all of the Muppets) is an example of a healthty person who died of pneumococcal pneumonia. Legionella pneumonia (Legionairres disease) is a highly fatal pneumonia that affects healthy people. Anthrax pneumonia takes no prisoners. Nearly all sufferers succumb. The recent H1N1 influenza outbreak was unusual because the higher death rates come in the younger, healthier population. The reasons for this are still being studied. There is some research suggesting that underlying asthma may have been a risk and that older people tended to survive because a flu outbreak in the past was similar enough antigenically to make people who had survived it in their youth partially immune and so they had a milder form. None of the research is final on that.

Pneumonia is an infection of the lungs. It may be caused by chemicals, viruses, bacteria or fungi. The diagnosis, prognosis and treatment are different depending on these factors plus the underlying health staus of the patient. And we still get caught surprised at times when something new comes along or when a causitive agent attacks in unexpected ways.

[Curious]

I had been led to understand that lupus is kind of like a catch-all label for a certain subgroup of autoimmune diseases once the specific diseases had been ruled out. I know I'm not saying that clearly but it would be if X, Y and Z specific autoimmune diseases had been ruled out but the person had SOME* autoimmune disease in that category. Kind of like a "not otherwise specified" for that group. I don't know any of this first-hand so someone please correct me if this isn't right. I also have a friend with MS who has said the same thing about MS, that it's a "what's left" diagnosis after the other specific diseases of that group have been eliminated.

* now I'm super self conscious every time I use capitals for emphasis, lol :lol:

ETA: phew, caught up with this thread for the first time in days! :dance: But with a busy Thurs/Fri coming up, I'm sure I'll be way behind again by the weekend, heh...

I think that's Chronic Fatigue Syndrome that is the "catch all" based on my research. In trying to find out what is going on with me, I keep saying that I'm not going to accept CFS as a dx for that reason. I suppose I may not have a choice, but to me it's kind of like saying "we have no idea what's wrong so here's a label we can slap on you."

[Curious]

Generally, pneumonia is divided into two classifications, community acquired and institutionally acquired. Pneumonias in the hospitalized or institutionalized folks tends to be with infectious agents that are more serious and resistant to antiboitics. Institutionalized patients tend to be older and sicker. They carry a far worse prognosis than folks who get pnueumonia out in the community.

Some people who get community acquired pneumonia were previously healthy and often they can be treated with close outpatient supervision and do not need to be hospitalized. Because of this, there is little public awareness, unless you are personally affected. (It is still a miserable illness). Some people who get pneumonia in the community already have some level of disease. They may be smokers or diabetic or drink too much alcohol. These folks get sicker and are higher risk for developing long term complications or dying.

All of that said, "generally" doesn't mean always. Although Pneumococcal pneumonia is common and treatable with antibiotics. It can be very aggressive at times and healthy people die. Jim Henson (the father of all of the Muppets) is an example of a healthty person who died of pneumococcal pneumonia. Legionella pneumonia (Legionairres disease) is a highly fatal pneumonia that affects healthy people. Anthrax pneumonia takes no prisoners. Nearly all sufferers succumb. The recent H1N1 influenza outbreak was unusual because the higher death rates come in the younger, healthier population. The reasons for this are still being studied. There is some research suggesting that underlying asthma may have been a risk and that older people tended to survive because a flu outbreak in the past was similar enough antigenically to make people who had survived it in their youth partially immune and so they had a milder form. None of the research is final on that.

Pneumonia is an infection of the lungs. It may be caused by chemicals, viruses, bacteria or fungi. The diagnosis, prognosis and treatment are different depending on these factors plus the underlying health staus of the patient. And we still get caught surprised at times when something new comes along or when a causitive agent attacks in unexpected ways.

Thanks FlorenceHamilton (I always want to type Florence Henderson for some reason lol), that was really interesting and I had no idea that Legionairres disease was a form of pneumonia.

FJ is so damn educational :)

[thoughtful]

I also have been wondering about RR's comments, in the last few blog posts she made before the :shit-fan: , where her posts suddenly started showing up as walls of text, and when people commented on how hard that was to read, she apologized and said it was because she was posting from a phone (IIRC, I did not look this up and now those comments are gone so I can't be sure).

I remember it as her saying it was something about posting from a computer at work, but I could be wrong.

[okayobee]

Fibromyalgia is another one that people use as a catch all. It's a real illness but those who like exaggerate their symptoms for sympathy often pick Fibro because the symptoms are similar to other autoimmune disorders and easy to fake to people who don't much about it. It's a fave of the hypochondriacs. (I probably just gave RR her next scam illness!)

The thing that jumps out at me is those of us who actually live with these autoimmune struggles _live_ with them. Meaning, it's our day to day life. We're not out and about on the interwebs complaining and looking for attention (mostly). If anything, in our daily lives we'd like less attention. I go online for entertainment and to forget my struggles. I might go on a specific medical board and ask a question but I'm not going to do the same on a celebrity gossip site. That's the big difference between someone with a medical issue and one who is faking it. Those who fake it and love the attention think those who have it for real love the attention and they try to mimic us. In my experience that's not true. Having personality disordered people in my life with a penchant for hypochondria has given me a lot of insight into their twisted thinking (jealousy). I think RR/PM falls into this same camp. She has just taken it to the web.

If you follow some of the other names associated with RR you will find claims of lupus, stroke, heart surgery, and chemo/cancer. All of which she seems to bounce back from rather quickly. None of them seem real if you know anything about those conditions.

[alaeangelorum]

I think that's Chronic Fatigue Syndrome that is the "catch all" based on my research. In trying to find out what is going on with me, I keep saying that I'm not going to accept CFS as a dx for that reason. I suppose I may not have a choice, but to me it's kind of like saying "we have no idea what's wrong so here's a label we can slap on you."

I would agree with your impression - Chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, IBS and the like tend to used when a concrete organic cause is not found for symptoms. That is not to say that they do not exist, or that the symptoms are not real, or that one should be worried about the symptoms, but they tend to be a diagnosis of exclusion when sinister things are ruled out.

Lupus on the other hand is not a catch all, but a disease that can have many presentations, hence it often being touted on House as the diagnosis (incidentally I don't think 'it's never lupus' was much used on the show, more by fans as it hardly ever was the diagnosis despite being mentioned in every episode).

[myoung790]

The "Evie" article is from ABC News, and mostly uses that story as a lead-in to talking about Internet scams, etc. The "Evie" story comes from something the author actually experienced, and, from what she said, I'm not sure the members of the online group involved ever found out their scammer's real name.

Here it is:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... and-decep/

LOL. Adam and Evie? That's seems like a bit of a tell of fiction. Just saying.

This whole thing is fascinating. I didn't follow RR much, but this chick needs some serious help.

:popcorn2:

[louisa05]

hence it often being touted on House as the diagnosis (incidentally I don't think 'it's never lupus' was much used on the show, more by fans as it hardly ever was the diagnosis despite being mentioned in every episode).

It was said by the janitor in the episode where House had no team and was making him brainstorm a case with him.

[fifinella]

LOL. Adam and Evie? That's seems like a bit of a tell of fiction. Just saying.

This whole thing is fascinating. I didn't follow RR much, but this chick needs some serious help.

:popcorn2:

AANNNNDDD now I'm having a small-world-mind-is-blown moment. I've been following these threads all week, but this morning was the first time I had clicked through to the ABC article linked above. The author is one of my in-laws. I'll have to email her with the story of Ruth.

ETA: I'll ask her if they found out who it was.