The Truth About Ruth - Part 3

[Curious]

I wouldn't have raised an eyebrow if it weren't that the illnesses in the two were identical, and the progression of "symptoms" and "treatment" were, as well. I mean, who picks pneumonia as their scam illness? Cancer I would expect to see over and over again, but not pneumonia.

This may be a naive question, but unless you have some other condition (like CF) or are immuno-compromised, do people really still die from pneumonia?

My son was BORN with pneumonia (which apparently happens more than you'd think) and he did have to spend some time in the NICU, but he was fine, even being a few weeks early.

It just seems like such an odd choice to me.

[FJismyheadship]

Here is what happened with the UV filters. Instead of it going on her windows, she wrapped it around herself... or made a skin tight full body suit out of the stuff and put it on.

/End ridiculous speculation

[thoughtful]

I just have to post again to say two things:

Glad to see you posting again, PrincessJo.

And, is a metric buttload the same as a metric shitton, or is one more than the other?

:D

[happy atheist]

Happy Atheist, "fundamentalist atheist" made me crack up. She reminds me a lot of some folks I see on the reddit atheism subreddit (not sure if you're a redditor or not), but there are times when they're downright militant. I consider myself an agnostic, but I don't hold any great bitterness for most religious folks. I'm happy to let them lead their lives as they choose, as long as they're not interfering with mine. Heck, my own family is very religious. I tried to read some of the possummomma blog, but all I got was anger over religious symbols in public places, etc. Given her apparent anger with religion, I'd be willing to bet her next scam will be rooted in some religious movement as well.

I do not go anywhere near reddit, but my teen son does.

For me, being an atheist means that I don't have to spend any time thinking about religion. That's kind of the whole point. I don't have to go to church/temple, I don't have to read the bible or any other holy book, I don't have to pray. Why would I go online and talk about it?

This post is the most I've ever said about it in writing, and I'm a writer.

I do see the disconnect between all of what I've just said and the fact that I'm an admin on this board. I think fundies are dangerous, and I feel somewhat obligated to keep tabs on them for my own protection. And reading about all of these extremists reinforces my disinterest in all things religious.

And now, back to The Many Faces of Ruth.

[nokidsmom]

The point is that people who are genuine generally do not respond to doubt by flouncing. It's one thing to want to avoid the drama by keeping a low profile or blocking people, it's another entirely to do the 'sorry you don't believe me' thing and flounce.

If Ruth had been genuine I'd have expected her to either completely ignore the accusations, or if it got to the point where they became overwhelming explain the discrepancies, explain that the reader was under no obligation to believe her (without trying to guilt the reader or place the blame on them as she did), taken down the tip jar and continued blogging as usual.

Excellent points.

In particular is the blaming or guilting the readers for not believing her. From what I have from her blog and from reading here, this was an ongoing thing as well. So not surprised at the manner of the flounce given that she employed blame and guilt, but it is telling.

[Kitchen Princess]

I would be willing to bet there have been scams and attention seekers as long as there have been humans.

Og the caveman probably pointed and yelled that there was an animal about to attack, grabbed Gog's food, and said the caveman equivalent of "psych!" when Gog looked back at him.

Og's brother probably walked up to everyone in the group to show them his latest boo-boo and elicit sympathy about it, every day.

The Internet just makes it easier.

Conversely, there have probably been people with a long list of bad things that really happened to them as long as there have been humans (although, modern life makes it easier to have a long string of bad things happen -- for most of human history, one or two were probably enough to kill you!).

I have some really amazing friends, all from an online forum, whom I've met in person. All kinds of personalities represented, including the know-it-all and the complainer, etc. They would probably consider me "capable", and never worry about me. I recently complained on FB about being lonely; and I got an amazing outpouring of "what's happening?!?" because I never, ever complain. I just don't like the attention, and prefer to work things out for myself. All of them were surprised when I showed up online with a neck brace on--spinal fusion surgery, that they knew about but I never described it.

A huge lot of things happen to me that I never mention. People would be shocked if I told them everything. The most central reason I don't complain is because I see how tired and dismissive people are to our group's resident complainer. I would dearly love to share some of my heartaches with the group, but I couldn't bear to be dismissed after I shared my heart. I also don't want to be outdone, or one-upped. I just want my share, not ALL of the attention. When I complained about being lonely, I was really really feeling it, and it took about 3 comments on the subject before it felt too hot in here. People love me; I wasn't feeling it; now I do. People who want ALL of the attention really make it hard for people who just want their share.

[Justdrea81]

This might have already been mentioned, but has anyone thought of contacting Nev from the Catfish series?

[rward]

Oh, yeah, people die of pneumonia all the time. Young, healthy people most of the time. The thing is, if you're young and healthy, the symptoms of pneumonia just seem like a cold that's dragged on a bit. By the time you show symptoms that inspire you to go to the ER, it is often way too late.

[Smokey-pony]

This may be a naive question, but unless you have some other condition (like CF) or are immuno-compromised, do people really still die from pneumonia?

My son was BORN with pneumonia (which apparently happens more than you'd think) and he did have to spend some time in the NICU, but he was fine, even being a few weeks early.

It just seems like such an odd choice to me.

Yes they still do, of course the elderly and babies are more at risk. However my friend's dad nearly died from it a couple years ago and he was in otherwise great health.

When I had "mild" pneumonia at 17 I was sure I was going to die, I didn't know it was possible to cough so violently without a break.

[kittypie]

When I look at the old Yuku board due to links someone posted, I have to wonder what happened to all those old posters. NeonJungle, kittypie, bunny, Crackedeggs, SunnyAndrsn, clarinet power, etc., etc., etc.

I'm here! I was a skeptic from the moment I first read the RR blog, linked from the old Yuku board. I smelled a scammer, but it was just a gut "feeling" and feelings are proof of...nothing. A few other skeptics and I got a little "talking to" from time to time by RR supporters when we mentioned our skepticism, but it was usually respectful. I'm so glad some folks with far better internet sleuthing skills than I have finally outted her. I feel a bit exonerated, but I'm still infuriated that another lazy scamming slug stole money from however many kind-hearted FJers, and who knows how many others over her years of scamming.

[noni alabaster]

I must be a right bitch, because I don't care if she's "sick." Sometimes people do bad things not because they're sick, but because they're bad people with no conscience. I'm not sure why everyone insists that if someone does something wrong, they must be sick.

I couldn't agree more. I deal with my own two serious mental illnesses, but I don't expect to be forgiven for my actions, just because I'm "sick." I find that attitude patronizing.

[Coconut Flan]

She seems to be the worst kind of atheist, which is the kind that never shuts up about religion. She's a fundamentalist atheist. My eyes were glazing over when I was archiving her blog. I just have no interest in any of it.

She's a zealot. Whether one is a religious zealot or an atheist zealot, it makes no difference to me. They are both into proselytizing for their cause and they are intolerant of any view but theirs. PM and Jim Bob are two faces of the same coin.

I like the view that she sees things in extremes. I think that's true and I fully expect to see her around in six months or less in her new persona. I'm not sure whether I hope or fear it's going to be some Mormon derivative.

[fifinella]

I said this to someone in private earlier. If it was me and I had nothing to hide and my FB was already public. I wouldn't care if a few more people were suddenly seeing my vacay pics (and talking about my saggy acreage). I'd go about my business like there was nothing to see here. Everything is hunky dory....move along, please.

Making thing private at the same time "Ruth" is scrubbing things is the absolutely worst thing she could have done, in terms of trying to look innocent.

I don't know, I think if I were totally innocent of the scamming (I don't think she is, based on the evidence, but just for the sake of argument) and I got a heads up that loads of irritated strangers were poring over my FB page, I'd probably do a quick reassessment of my privacy settings. I think selective scrubbing of incriminating details is one thing, but just setting stuff to private isn't by itself a red flag. But that's coming from someone who already has pretty much everything on FB set to private or friends only, so maybe that's just me.

[Shirley MacLaine]

I don't know, I think if I were totally innocent of the scamming (I don't think she is, based on the evidence, but just for the sake of argument) and I got a heads up that loads of irritated strangers were poring over my FB page, I'd probably do a quick reassessment of my privacy settings. I think selective scrubbing of incriminating details is one thing, but just setting stuff to private isn't by itself a red flag. But that's coming from someone who already has pretty much everything on FB set to private or friends only, so maybe that's just me.

Absolutely I would set my FB to friends only if I learned people were checking up on me and discussing me, even if I were innocent of the accusations. Especially if I had information about my kids all over my facebook. Of course, I don't have any children and my facebook is already friends only. But just for the sake of argument. I also don't understand the argument that someone wouldn't quit blogging (or flounce, as the kids these days say) over repeated accusations of lying/fraud if they were truly innocent. I mean, I could totally see myself doing that, because after a point, it just becomes too much of a hassle. I wouldn't scrub down my shit, though. Or maybe I would... I do have a bad temper and can be pretty petulant and shitty.

[Coconut Flan]

I'm of two minds on this one also. My FB page was being tracked one time in what looked to me like an internet witch hunt. I wasn't the person they were trying to find, but things from my FB were being posted on a couple of blogs. Googling oneself even a fake name is a good thing. My first instinct was to shut everything down as I was upset. Then I thought if I do that they'll know that I know what they are doing. What I did was have some fun with them and make up stuff. There are considerations though in that my FB page is not in my real name just because of stuff like that happening and my children are not in any way shown on my FB account.

[Jezebel]

One thing that never rang true to me was how much persecution she supposedly faced as an atheist. Really, in California, in the mid-2000s? Seemed very odd to me. I could almost understand if she was in the deep South, or this was the 1950s, but... that always seemed odd.

I'm chiming in late with this (and somebody else may already have pointed this out), but the Bakersfield area--in fact, most of California, once you get away from LA and the Bay Area, is very conservative. The San Joaquin Valley is rural/agricultural, and home to a lot of fundies, or at least people who would consider themselves committed Christian conservatives. It's not so intense as the Deep South, but all the stereotypes about liberal, New-Agey, anything-goes Californians do not apply there. I can understand why Calladus has difficulties as an "out" and vocal atheist living in Fesno, and would expect someone living in Bakersfield to have similar issues. That doesn't mean PM didn't embellish and exaggerate true stories, or even make a few up out of whole cloth, but there is a core truth in that she lives in an area that is not exactly atheist-friendly.

[wild little fox]

On the other hand we discuss and snark about people's blogs every day on this forum and how many actually quit or give their blog a major scrubbing?

I do understand why an innocent person would set their blog to private, especially since there are children involved.

[ceg045]

For me, personally, it's not so much the fact she's locking/shutting stuff down, but that she's doing it now. The RR blog has been accused of embellishment at best, outright fakery at worst, for years. This is increasingly true in the last year or so since the "Rachel giving her baby to a gay couple" storyline occurred. Yet RR always seemed to acknowledge the accusations (with varying degrees of annoyance) and continue blogging. However, her decision to flounce now, when there's actual proof being put forward, looks a lot more suspicious.

[Coconut Flan]

I question anyone being persecuted for being an atheist unless that person is actively involved in pushing atheism on other people. My dearly departed husband was an atheist for most of our marriage yet the only time he encountered any difficulty at all was when he chose to attack someone's religious beliefs or evangelize atheism. Simply saying he didn't believe, didn't go to church, etc, never inspired anyone's ire. It was only when he tried to debunk someone else's beliefs, called them names, got snarky over it, participated in active efforts to push atheism, or belittled religious beliefs that things got dicey. We lived in several parts of the country and state and it was pretty much the same all over.

[Closed Womb]

First, I'm so excited to have actually followed something like this in real time. I seems like every time something big happens at FJ, I am too busy to log on (or it's something that happened before my time, and I wade through 200 pages but can't add my comments because, well, who cares two years later?) Of course, sad that it happened (not that she was found out -- that's a great thing -- that she even started with these frauds) but glad I got to follow along.

Some of my thoughts, in no particular order:

When all this started and Lainey was insistent that PM was involved, I admit to being a little irritated (sorry, Lainey). We were going on with these threads and the inconsistencies, and every few pages someone would pop up to say "It's PM" (who I had never heard of before and don't much care about.) I was certain this PM connection was BS. But, I'm convinced. Now when people have theories about who PM may also be, I say bring them. Let OddsEverything check it out if she has the desire. As long as someone's real name/identity is not on the line, it's worth bringing up. I am for exposing the scammer(s).

I am hesitant to bring it up again, but I think that the problem with insulting PM about her bra, it's ineffectiveness, or lack thereof, is the idea that having sagging breasts IS an insult. I'm all for any insults that speak to the actual crimes/snarkable offenses, but insulting bodies insults everyone who has that type of body. It assumes that there is something wrong with the natural sagging of breasts.

Regarding Munchausen in all it's many forms: my husband, who I've only been married to for a few years, has a very serious medical condition. I had a middle class upbringing which has afforded me a great deal of privileged, including education and earning potential. I've owned a very successful business, graduated top of my class (college), earned advanced degrees, etc. There is nothing -- I mean NOTHING -- in my life that has garnered me more attention than having a sick husband. Nothing. When he had surgery a few years ago, his chances of survival were low. The outpouring of concern, attention, affection, gifts, etc. was something I had never seen, never expected. I remember sitting in the hospital waiting room thinking, THIS is how Munchausen happens! If there was a void in my life (there isn't, praises FSM), I could totally see how having a sick relative, especially a child, could fill that void. Granted, for most of us, having a healthy loved one is the only reward we want. But, there are the MckMamas and PMs of the world...

I'm fully in the camp that says MbI or any other condition does not excuse fraud/grifting/whatever you want to call it. This behavior is ethically abhorrent, full stop.

[MerryHappy]

But there is no evidence linking Ruth/PM with Evie or the Catholic scammer, correct?

Do we have an answer for this?

I have not the time or energy to wade through three different posts so would anyone be willing to give me a cliff notes version of what exactly Ruth is being accused of? I skimmed through some of the accusations but I am still a bit confused over what Ruth did that makes her a scammer.

Fwiw-I am an X-ATI kid who has followed and identified with much of what Ruth posted to her blog.

[nelliebelle1197]

Do we have an answer for this?

I have not the time or energy to wade through three different posts so would anyone be willing to give me a cliff notes version of what exactly Ruth is being accused of? I skimmed through some of the accusations but I am still a bit confused over what Ruth did that makes her a scammer.

Fwiw-I am an X-ATI kid who has followed and identified with much of what Ruth posted to her blog.

No idea, but I think OkToBeTakai was right on when she pointed out the discomfort in some of these reactions and I feel one reason MY discomfort is all this making connections with out proof. I just wanted point that out.

So how did Ruth read to you? Authentic?

[wild little fox]

http://www.truth-about-ruth.com/

Oddseverything started a blog documenting the information collected. There are two entries so far.

[MerryHappy]

No idea, but I think OkToBeTakai was right on when she pointed out the discomfort in some of these reactions and I feel one reason MY discomfort is all this making connections with out proof. I just wanted point that out.

So how did Ruth read to you? Authentic?

Very much so.

If I were to share my own story about exiting Gothardism/ATI/ATIA, folks would probably think that I was being a drama whore. I didn't speak of it for a long time because the times I did share what life was like, I was met with a great deal of skepticism.

I know the X-ATIA community is watching this, torn between feeling her story had dramatic moments and really identifying with her story, as I said before.

The general consensus from the X-ers is that she should probably out herself and have us rally with her given that someone will have to know who she is, if she really was a pilot family kid.

[Ex 2x2]

Merryhappy, isn't it a small enough group that you and the x's would know who she is, were she real? Given my cultish background, it's amazing what a small world it is. I don't participate much with the x's forums bc there's just so much bitterness and hurt, and while I understand, I can't live in that without being miserable. My point though is when I have participated a little, it's amazing how connected everyone is. You know this family or of that family and what not.

Edited to fix a typo

Edited again to fix another. Typing on phones sucks